Grim Frostbitten Scumlust -- MAFIA WINS

[Nynaeve]

Also I don't share Cory's level of confidence irt Laine at all. Just so we're clear. But I'm willing to put her on ice for now.

[Tiinker]

 

 

Have you seen Tiink as town?  I only ever played with him that one game where he was scum.

I haven't, but that's so towny though. 

 

I have thought the same so many times. Someone posts a simple hello and others clear them for it. 

 

 

I think this is a genuine read from Sooh re: Tinker. Unfortunately I think she may be wrong about Tiinker but that's the game :(

 

But this reads real from Sooh. Her cover and the snap decision to do it are things that come from a villager way more often than a wolf.

 

I won't discuss the cover thing any further but I have to speak up about this in particular because I think Tiinker is a wolf.

 

He's hiding behind this "read me wolfy for doing nothing, punk" kind of tone I see tired wolves emulate. well named used to do this all the time. "Too wolfy to be a wolf" sort of taunting where you're able to mail a game in on the merit of being somewhat more involved as a wolf.

 

Different isn't always good in mafia. People's games develop and change.

 

 

Have I been taunting? I don't really think that's what I've been doing. I've been getting in posts where I can since I'm playing while between things. I think I'm just being blunt, not smugly watching from afar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's the sort of thing I say sometimes without thinking of how other folks might take it. I try and look at intent and meaning more than words nowadays and that makes sense to me, recognizing you're own lack of self awareness sort of.

Which is fine if the posts is outright scummy. Lot of people do that and post without thinking

 

The post I am talking about - this one - is completely different. It looks carefully constructed. There is nothing scummy about it in the face of it. But, that's exactly what I would generally see someone make to look good.

 

 

Maybe blend is the wrong word, but Pral put it pretty perfectly over here. I don't have too much to add to it.

 

 

 

Tink, youre up! Wheres your head irt to the current laya/sooh conversation?

 

 

Dont think either of them come of as town to my eyes though.

 

Tiinker agrees with Pral multiple times re: Sooh but when asked straight up by Darthe he is quick to dismiss any possible townread on him.

 

I think they both might be wolves straight up.

 

 

I think I've stated this numerous times throughout the past few games I've played on DM but I'm clearly not in tune with the rest of you guys making snap calls to say "Sooh is town" or "Sooh is scum" based on 3 or 4 posts. I agreed with Pral about what Sooh said being sketch but that doesn't mean I'm confident enough to call her scum straight up when I know very well I could be wrong about her. The scale is slightly tipped to the scum-end so it makes more sense to me to say they don't seem town. It's the same thing really but it's just how I feel comfortable expressing it.

[Tiinker]

Fwiw my strongest town read is Darthe atm. 

[Tiinker]

Fwiw my strongest town read is Darthe atm. 

[Nynaeve]

Reads are not static. Even if someone gets town points early on for tone or saying something incredibly townie, that doesn't mean they can't trend down later, or alternatively stay right where they are because they keep posting EV+ stuff. I don't understand why you keep going on and on about this.

 

Just because you don't understand someone else's playstyle and the way they read other people, doesn't make it wrong. No one is saying you have to agree with this read or that read if it doesn't make sense to you, but you can't really argue something like that because it is often entirely subjective. I mean, you CAN argue it, but it's a total waste of time. I would understand it more if you were trying to UNDERSTAND why X person made a read on Y, to try to READ X person. But it just seems to me like you're trying to shake confidence.

 

A big portion of what you've done so far is either constantly question people trying to create a town core or echoing other people's nudges. In case it's not clear, that's NOT a good look.

[Tiinker]

Reads are not static. Even if someone gets town points early on for tone or saying something incredibly townie, that doesn't mean they can't trend down later, or alternatively stay right where they are because they keep posting EV+ stuff. I don't understand why you keep going on and on about this.

 

Just because you don't understand someone else's playstyle and the way they read other people, doesn't make it wrong. No one is saying you have to agree with this read or that read if it doesn't make sense to you, but you can't really argue something like that because it is often entirely subjective. I mean, you CAN argue it, but it's a total waste of time. I would understand it more if you were trying to UNDERSTAND why X person made a read on Y, to try to READ X person. But it just seems to me like you're trying to shake confidence.

 

A big portion of what you've done so far is either constantly question people trying to create a town core or echoing other people's nudges. In case it's not clear, that's NOT a good look.

 

Going on about what?

 

I mean, refer back to my earlier post. Early D1 reads here are almost always meta-based. The majority of the time there isn't anything for me to try and understand there. Also agreeing with someone doesn't mean I'm egging on a situation or stirring crap. I think it's fine to say which points you think were good throughout the day and stand on them.

[Tiinker]

 

 

 

Have you seen Tiink as town?  I only ever played with him that one game where he was scum.

I haven't, but that's so towny though. 

 

I have thought the same so many times. Someone posts a simple hello and others clear them for it. 

 

 

I think this is a genuine read from Sooh re: Tinker. Unfortunately I think she may be wrong about Tiinker but that's the game :(

 

But this reads real from Sooh. Her cover and the snap decision to do it are things that come from a villager way more often than a wolf.

 

I won't discuss the cover thing any further but I have to speak up about this in particular because I think Tiinker is a wolf.

 

He's hiding behind this "read me wolfy for doing nothing, punk" kind of tone I see tired wolves emulate. well named used to do this all the time. "Too wolfy to be a wolf" sort of taunting where you're able to mail a game in on the merit of being somewhat more involved as a wolf.

 

Different isn't always good in mafia. People's games develop and change.

 

 

Have I been taunting? I don't really think that's what I've been doing. I've been getting in posts where I can since I'm playing while between things. I think I'm just being blunt, not smugly watching from afar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's the sort of thing I say sometimes without thinking of how other folks might take it. I try and look at intent and meaning more than words nowadays and that makes sense to me, recognizing you're own lack of self awareness sort of.

Which is fine if the posts is outright scummy. Lot of people do that and post without thinking

 

The post I am talking about - this one - is completely different. It looks carefully constructed. There is nothing scummy about it in the face of it. But, that's exactly what I would generally see someone make to look good.

 

 

Maybe blend is the wrong word, but Pral put it pretty perfectly over here. I don't have too much to add to it.

 

 

 

Tink, youre up! Wheres your head irt to the current laya/sooh conversation?

 

 

Dont think either of them come of as town to my eyes though.

 

Tiinker agrees with Pral multiple times re: Sooh but when asked straight up by Darthe he is quick to dismiss any possible townread on him.

 

I think they both might be wolves straight up.

 

 

I think I've stated this numerous times throughout the past few games I've played on DM but I'm clearly not in tune with the rest of you guys making snap calls to say "Sooh is town" or "Sooh is scum" based on 3 or 4 posts. I agreed with Pral about what Sooh said being sketch but that doesn't mean I'm confident enough to call her scum straight up when I know very well I could be wrong about her. The scale is slightly tipped to the scum-end so it makes more sense to me to say they don't seem town. It's the same thing really but it's just how I feel comfortable expressing it.

 

 

!!! @Cory. Misunderstanding here that I just spotted. Darthe says "laya/Sooh" which I interpreted as Hallia/Sooh cause of the name-sounds. Didn't think "laya" referred to Pral.

[Nynaeve]

 

Reads are not static. Even if someone gets town points early on for tone or saying something incredibly townie, that doesn't mean they can't trend down later, or alternatively stay right where they are because they keep posting EV+ stuff. I don't understand why you keep going on and on about this.

 

Just because you don't understand someone else's playstyle and the way they read other people, doesn't make it wrong. No one is saying you have to agree with this read or that read if it doesn't make sense to you, but you can't really argue something like that because it is often entirely subjective. I mean, you CAN argue it, but it's a total waste of time. I would understand it more if you were trying to UNDERSTAND why X person made a read on Y, to try to READ X person. But it just seems to me like you're trying to shake confidence.

 

A big portion of what you've done so far is either constantly question people trying to create a town core or echoing other people's nudges. In case it's not clear, that's NOT a good look.

 

Going on about what?

 

I mean, refer back to my earlier post. Early D1 reads here are almost always meta-based. The majority of the time there isn't anything for me to try and understand there. Also agreeing with someone doesn't mean I'm egging on a situation or stirring crap. I think it's fine to say which points you think were good throughout the day and stand on them.

 

 

It's also good to have some original thought.

[Tiinker]

 

 

Reads are not static. Even if someone gets town points early on for tone or saying something incredibly townie, that doesn't mean they can't trend down later, or alternatively stay right where they are because they keep posting EV+ stuff. I don't understand why you keep going on and on about this.

 

Just because you don't understand someone else's playstyle and the way they read other people, doesn't make it wrong. No one is saying you have to agree with this read or that read if it doesn't make sense to you, but you can't really argue something like that because it is often entirely subjective. I mean, you CAN argue it, but it's a total waste of time. I would understand it more if you were trying to UNDERSTAND why X person made a read on Y, to try to READ X person. But it just seems to me like you're trying to shake confidence.

 

A big portion of what you've done so far is either constantly question people trying to create a town core or echoing other people's nudges. In case it's not clear, that's NOT a good look.

 

Going on about what?

 

I mean, refer back to my earlier post. Early D1 reads here are almost always meta-based. The majority of the time there isn't anything for me to try and understand there. Also agreeing with someone doesn't mean I'm egging on a situation or stirring crap. I think it's fine to say which points you think were good throughout the day and stand on them.

 

 

It's also good to have some original thought.

 

 

Ah, damn. Wish I'd thought of that.

 

[Nynaeve]

Can you whip up a read list?  much appreciated.

[Tiinker]

Off the top of my head I have Darthe and Pral on my do-not-want-to-lynch-today list.

[Tiinker]

I'd give you the rest but I'm omw to watch the football and enjoy a morning drink

[Sooh]

Caught up fully.

 

Where I'm at:

 

Hallia

Alanna

Sooh

 

Darthe

Katiora

 

Dice

Crusher

 

~~~ THE LINE ~~~

 

NotBob

Graendal

Lenlo

 

Pralaya

 

Tiinker

 

</zandermode>

 

Getting some sleep, let's talk this over tomorrow

Can you talk to me about how you approached your Kat read? I understand completely the other top towns you have (also you have convinced me of the purity of CorNy), but I've always had issues reading Kat and I'm never sure of her.

[Sooh]

 

im not a good sooh reader by any means  but she sounds different here then last couple of games where she was super obvious.

 

I kinda disagree. if you recall, in the BT game, she started off sounding kinda weird and then worked up from there. Here she just sounded good from the get go. And I find it VERY hard to believe that she could carry that facade as scum (no offense Sooh <3). I feel pretty confident that she's town.

 

None taken lol!

 

 

[Nynaeve]

Cory convinced you of our slots' purity?  knife to the heart.... :/

[Sooh]

Cory convinced you of our slots' purity?  knife to the heart.... :/

lol you were already trending town for me, I just wasn't sure until Cory's spurt of posts last night. None of YOUR posts were objectionable from my eyes. It was just that his skeeved me out at the start.

[Sooh]

 

If you recall, I've already asked several players why they have Tiink as town, because I don't understand WHY. I asked Sooh, I asked Halli (and still waiting for a response).

 

Looking at what he posted so far?

 

 

When Cory and dice were asking each other if they were town, he jumped in and said that no one asked him, but he is town. Ok?

 

After I joke around with dice a bit, he posts saying Nyn/dice scum team. Serious or not? who knows. Doesn't explain.

 

Reiterates that I'm suspect. Doesn't say why. Serious or not? who knows. Never really comes back to any of this, whether serious or beating the grass.

 

Complains about people clearing each other so easily by just saying hello.

 

Makes a joke about how he was town in Overwatch (he was scum).

 

When Notbob calls him scum, he says no.

 

Complains about Hallia giving Kat a town read too easily. Let it be noted that he does this AFTER Sooh already brought it up and asked Hallia and Hallia has yet to show up to respond. The way I caught Tiinker in that one game where we played together where he was scum was his tendency to piggyback riding nudges on townies (for anyone who was in that game, I'm talking about how he used Sili's push on Cass to push Cass as well using his reasoning).

 

When Pral quoted Kat and says he agreed with Hallia that it looks like Kat is just trying to look busy, Tiink feels the need to point out it wasn't Hallia, it was him who said it. ACTUALLY, it was Sooh who said it and this just looks like him trying to get credit for repeating what Sooh initially brought up, hours later.

 

Says he's gonna policy scum read anyone that says "you know how I play", saying it reads like a cover up. Okay? Says he's gonna give Laine the benefit of the doubt. Okay?

 

When Hallia says that she likes Pral and that there is something she saw earlier that she liked but she doesn't wanna share, he nudges her to say what it is. 

 

Agrees with Pral's sus of Sooh. Once again getting behind someone else's nudge. First follows up on Sooh's nudge on Kat, but tries to get credit for bringing it up. Now follows up on Pral's nudge on Sooh. No original thought in the horizon.

 

Pokes at Sooh for having one of the most blend posts in the game, as a follow up to what Pral brought up.

 

Says he won't lynch cory today, when asked by him how he's reading our slot.

 

Adds that maybe blend is the wrong word to describe Sooh's post, but that Pral explained it perfectly and he has nothing to add. Shocking.

 

He makes a comment "don't think either of them come of as town to my eyes". Literally no idea who he's talking about.

 

Makes some comment about how everyone is getting personal and how we're better than this. Bla bla bla. 

 

Disapproves of dice town reading Hallia for calling out Laine on not providing new content and continuing the whinage. Adds that he's not on board with the way many people make their reads "around here" lol  Well sure, I could see how it would be inconvenient for him for townies to be clearing other townies. *snerk*

 

 

 

tldr, a lot of complaints about people town reading each other for silly reasons he's not down with (Halli town reading Kat, dice town reading Halli and so on). Not actually trying to find townies himself that I saw. Literally does nothing but piggy back other people's nudges. Tries to get credit to come off involved. A big ole' MEH all around.

 

So I ask again... why are people town reading Tiink?????

 

Because I went through all of his posts and I don't see one single thing that would make me think he could be town. Not ONE (and Sorry, Sooh, but him pointing out something you often think about yourself in games means nothing to me irt his alignment. Largely because you're not even the same person.... that I know of! lol ).

 

Ok, so, I was happy with that one post that Tiinker made, the one that I commented on. I tried playing it off as though he was my fakepeek, but since then his posts have deteriorated and I can see him as scum. So much for attempting cover. (lol I'm not sure you even understood that was my cover, Nyn)

 

It does give me sadness, because I was really hoping for and trying to see him as town this game, because I truly find him a great and enjoyable player. 

 

Unvote

Vote: Tiinker

[Nynaeve]

I did not realize at first. Then I erm... pretended like it didn't happen lol

[Nynaeve]

>.>

[Sooh]

Ah well. 

 

What's done is done. Now we move on.

 

 

I am curious how we're supposed to read Graendal this game. He (profile says male) seems to be one of those players who will always be in POE.

 

 

Also Nyn, the question about Kat, if you have any input I would appreciate it.

[Nynaeve]

IMO I think Kat sounds overall townie. She started off pretty light hearted in joking around with me. And I think all the crap she got for doing a simple copy paste of the roster with who showed up was pretty lol worthy.... felt kinda exaggerated and it's giving me bad juju. I don't see how it would read like someone trying to look busy, but at the same time I agree it's not something that should earn her townie points either. Literally NOTHING was going on at the time. And I wouldn't say posting the roster in response to me raising the topic of people who haven't checked in yet, means anything except the fact that she was conversing with me. And I'm not going to diss her for engaging me.

 

If anyone takes a minute to look back, like I said, I was the one who actually brought up the fact that some people have not checked in yet. She in response asked who didn't show up and then immediately followed that up with pasting the roster and ticking off who she thought didn't show. Then we had a bit of an exchange on who was missing. She didn't remember Crusher showed and thought Pral had. I corrected her. I know Crusher pointed out her not noticing he was voting. And I guess I understand why he would point it out... ie something he noticed and felt the need to mention... but I still feel like it means absolutely nothing. Before I replied to her, I even clicked the replies to get the list of all the people that have posted in the thread by that point, just to double check I hadn't missed anything. 

 

I specifically liked her response to Pral (#424). Also her clarifying that you (ie Sooh) weren't "randomly defending her" like Pral claimed (#434). Would I want her to post more? hell yes. But I also realize it's the weekend and it's probably not gonna happen this phase. But I want her to take it up a notch D2 for sure.

[Nynaeve]

Guys, I'm pretty sure if we put a big pile of bacon in the middle of the room, Crusher is gonna show. It worked with Godzilla. 

[Nynaeve]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

 

Katiora (1): Sooh

Corny (1): Crusher

Alanna (1): Lenlo

Tiink (1): Corny

 

Not Voting: Darthe, Tiinker, Hallia, Pralaya, Katiora, Corny, GF, NotBob, Dice, Alanna

 

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

 

 

 

>.>

[Nynaeve]

Quoted for the DL counter... VC isnt' current.

[The Crusher]

Guys, I'm pretty sure if we put a big pile of bacon in the middle of the room, Crusher is gonna show. It worked with Godzilla.

 

Yes please. Very sorry about that. My eldest daughter and her boyfriend of 4 years just got engaged. We ended up partying a bit. Teehee. In office till 1 but will do my best to catch up.