Beyond the Wall - Game Thread - GAME OVER

[Andrej]

Btw... Who else is feeling Independent today?

[Celeste]

  On 7/4/2016 at 3:54 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 7/4/2016 at 3:52 PM, Celeste said:

 

  On 7/4/2016 at 3:47 PM, Andrej said:

Celeste did you ever acknowledge what Shad and I said about your vote? I don't remember you addressing it.

Was it "It seems loose and out of no where?" If so then I believe I did.

No.

The fact that you said John is sheeping other's thoughts and not bringing his own when he hasn't posted any game related thoughts whatsoever.

I think I responded to that.

[SiRReN]

  On 7/4/2016 at 3:44 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 7/4/2016 at 3:04 PM, Punished Balrog said:

 

  On 7/4/2016 at 2:56 PM, Hallia said:

PBF is on point for her town game. Granted I haven't seen her scum game, but this is very very very similar to the game I played with her on VS.

You've just played that one game with her?

 

I've got some bad news for you then.

 

You've only seen her scum game, friend.

Hally?

 

Hallia can still answer, but I can confirm Balrog's statement. Princess has played three (currently playing a fourth) game on VS - Hallia has been in one of them, a mentor round that I ran. Princess was scum in that game.

[SiRReN]

Oop, saw that she answered.

 

That's my bad Hallia, I didn't update the player list at the end of the game, we just always end up chilling and talking in the Dead Thread so I didn't think anyone would NOT have know she was scum lol

[Sili Quirrels]

balrog is sort of playing off to the sidelines i feel like. i don't hate that. just makes me uncertain.

[Katiora]

  On 7/4/2016 at 4:01 PM, Andrej said:

Btw... Who else is feeling Independent today?

 

I'm feeling very independent... and I'll feel more independent in a few more hours after I'm off work lol 

[Andrej]

@Celeste - can you pull your response or just answer again please?

 

I see a lot of opposition to the lynch because of out of thread reasons but no one wants to discuss that Celeste made up a reason to vote someone

[Sili Quirrels]

  On 7/4/2016 at 4:01 PM, Andrej said:

Btw... Who else is feeling Independent today?

Resurgence? That came out a week ago right?

[Sili Quirrels]

  On 7/4/2016 at 4:13 PM, Andrej said:

@Celeste - can you pull your response or just answer again please?

 

I see a lot of opposition to the lynch because of out of thread reasons but no one wants to discuss that Celeste made up a reason to vote someone

she said she responded to it. i doubt she lied about that. 

[PrincessBFlea]

Kat ISO:

 

The first thing she does that catches my attention is the tinfoiling comment, mostly because A) I read it as joking when I first saw it, and then because even once I knew it was serious, nothing about it or her explanation for it reads as scummy for me, as I could actually follow her train of thought even though she doesn't seem to know how to put it into words. At the point that she made the tinfoiling comment, she had already seen Lenlo make a couple of posts re: Sili and their alignment, all of it trending towards town without actually saying it. And she was right, at the time it WAS weird, but on her part it was nothing more than an observation. I feel the ensuing conflict between her and Lenlo was simply based on a mis-understanding of early-game joke-posting. Overall, not alignment indicative at the least.

 

Otherwise, Kat has seemed genuine about her answers, and helpful. I like that, while she hasn't posted much, she is still communicating with the thread when she can, and keeping up with it-- but I don't like that the only thing she has kept up with seems to be the Dice/Zander debate. I would like her to go into her own reads, given the chance, or for her to at least be making a better argument for Sili, but she is instead gives him a pss for the holiday weekend, which while I understand (as we all want ot be with our families) makes me a bit wary, since PC is in less than 12 hours ( I think) and if you have thought of a good counter-wagon, that would be useful info for the people who feel locked into lynching Celeste simply because there are no better options...

 

So at the moment, I'm not entirely certain how I feel about Kat. While I don't hate the tinfoiling discussion that happened, or her explanation, she has consistently offered excuses about her play without then following it up with effort... but she only just got back to a comuputer today, aaaand it's at work :/ Honestly, this makes me uncomfortable, because we all have excuses for why we can't be here at times, but I feel town tries to make up for it when they get back by doubling down and contributing what they can to the discussion while they are here, and aside from the one post re: understanding Dice AND towns arguments, but having no solutions/alternatives because the game is too confusing, she hasn't done that.

 

For now I would move Kat to my Null-to-Scum Lean pile. While I can follow her trains of thought, she doesn't have enough of them, and they haven't really lead anywhere, but I'm giving her BotD now that she has access to a computer to step up her game.

[Sili Quirrels]

  On 7/4/2016 at 3:22 PM, PrincessBFlea said:

Just woke up, about to get into my ISO's a bit more and I just wanted to add my quick two cent  about the Zander argument.

 

Based on my initial ISO of him, I had him at Null with a slight scum lean, and had no plans atm to place my vote on him as he was no longer my scummiest read. Now that he has subbed out though?

 

I honestly feel town should bring it back a little-- Celeste has the rest of the day to make cases, if she IS town, but I can vouch it is hard to do that when you are on the defense from the get-go. I can imagine it's even worse when you are having to defend a position YOU didn't get yourself into. I'm not saying you should stop sussing the slot. I'm saying that everything we read from Zander is not compromised information. We no longer have anything solid to use, because his weirdness now could have been the result of RL instead of his alignment. sounds like a familiar thing. good that you're saying it clearly i suppose. though this was true before he subbed out.

 

I'm on Kat and Dice's side in this, and while I agree we should give you an alternative to be looking at (which I plan to do shortly), I also feel like you've had plenty of time since Celeste subbed in to have been looking at everyone again on your own and determining who else might be more obvious as scum, especially since that is what we will be needing to do N1/D2. 

 

IF Zander flips scum, I don't see us getting a lot of useful information, but yay us.... but IF he flips town, I have yet to really see anyone post how the benefit of it outweighs the cost of a mislynch, and I think what is making this situation worse if the flippant attitude this fact is being treated with... as though killing a townie is acceptable in this instance because we are already so committed to it and trying to get a train going somewhere else will be too hard.

 

I feel like that's where we are at this point. He's simply the target town has focused a great deal of their energy on, and now with the sub-out, you feel to committed to NOT follow through. Which really sucks for Celeste if she is town.

 

Again, just my two cents-- not telling anyone what to do, or what not to do, just making an outsiders observation.

 

@Celeste-- if you ARE town, focus less on defending at this point, and more on making at least 2-3 solid reads. I saw your quick and dirty reads, but you've been dropped into a unique position, and you will need to step it up to convince those of us who are on the fence about who to vote. Give us a more convincing target than you, for reasons YOU find suspicious. I'm not voting until 5pm Central time, which gives you plenty of time to argue your cases on who town should be looking at, or seal the deal on your fate.

uhm, my understanding is that 4 or 5 people really think zander's slot is scum. do you think they're all town, or that the leaders of said lynch are town? Because you say Zander is a target town has focused on.

 

The post is well reasoned but not alignment indicative. I replied to one part in blue. If you're new and town your approach to mafia is abstract. Maybe you think of it like a game and you're trying to understand why things happen, but I don't know. It's a little surprising seeing a new player being so articulate about the mechanics of town play and what's happening in the thread, true or not.

[Punished Balrog]

  On 7/4/2016 at 4:13 PM, Andrej said:

@Celeste - can you pull your response or just answer again please?

 

I see a lot of opposition to the lynch because of out of thread reasons but no one wants to discuss that Celeste made up a reason to vote someone

 

 

  On 7/3/2016 at 8:36 PM, Celeste said:

 

  On 7/3/2016 at 8:33 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 7/3/2016 at 8:29 PM, Celeste said:

 

  On 7/3/2016 at 8:20 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 7/3/2016 at 8:15 PM, Celeste said:

I'm done and here. I don't like your tone but I'm willing to see you play a bit more before thinking if your tone is scum or just rusty town since it's been a while seeing you play. Snow is someone I believe is a lot more analytical than he is being. How is that scummy of me to think that?

 

I agree with you on Snow, but that doesn't rule out bussing/distancing.

 

Also what you said about John wasn't that accurate in the first place. He hadn't presented any thoughts, but you're voting him for copying others. So it's not even a legit reason imo.

 

I hate bussing. So my phrasing was weird but he's just not saying anything scum hunting wise.

 

All the more reason to vote a partner in this situation.

 

And again, I agree with you. Snow is very firmly in my suspect POE. I wasn't picking on your phrasing. I'm picking on you saying he's copying others when all he's talked about is mechanics.

 

You don't have any other thoughts on the rest of the roster?

I do but also waiting on them to check in because I have questions and don't want it to be lost.

 

  On 7/3/2016 at 8:36 PM, Celeste said:

 

  On 7/3/2016 at 8:33 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 7/3/2016 at 8:29 PM, Celeste said:

 

  On 7/3/2016 at 8:20 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 7/3/2016 at 8:15 PM, Celeste said:

I'm done and here. I don't like your tone but I'm willing to see you play a bit more before thinking if your tone is scum or just rusty town since it's been a while seeing you play. Snow is someone I believe is a lot more analytical than he is being. How is that scummy of me to think that?

 

I agree with you on Snow, but that doesn't rule out bussing/distancing.

 

Also what you said about John wasn't that accurate in the first place. He hadn't presented any thoughts, but you're voting him for copying others. So it's not even a legit reason imo.

 

I hate bussing. So my phrasing was weird but he's just not saying anything scum hunting wise.

 

All the more reason to vote a partner in this situation.

 

And again, I agree with you. Snow is very firmly in my suspect POE. I wasn't picking on your phrasing. I'm picking on you saying he's copying others when all he's talked about is mechanics.

 

You don't have any other thoughts on the rest of the roster?

I do but also waiting on them to check in because I have questions and don't want it to be lost.

 

[Punished Balrog]

Holy crap, the quoting system is so bad here. 

 

If you look at the very bottom, you can see Celeste address AJ's question in the quote above it, but not the fact that he says her argument is baseless. 

[Sili Quirrels]

I dislike pre-prepared wots because it seems like you're trying to articulate case work without actually going through the visible mental process of getting there. Therefore it's often null with respect to allignment, and sometimes there is tunneling going on.

 

sorry, lament aside, ill read it now.

  On 7/4/2016 at 4:19 PM, PrincessBFlea said:

Kat ISO:

 

The first thing she does that catches my attention is the tinfoiling comment, mostly because A) I read it as joking when I first saw it, and then because even once I knew it was serious, nothing about it or her explanation for it reads as scummy for me, as I could actually follow her train of thought even though she doesn't seem to know how to put it into words. At the point that she made the tinfoiling comment, she had already seen Lenlo make a couple of posts re: Sili and their alignment, all of it trending towards town without actually saying it. And she was right, at the time it WAS weird, but on her part it was nothing more than an observation. I feel the ensuing conflict between her and Lenlo was simply based on a mis-understanding of early-game joke-posting. Overall, not alignment indicative at the least.

 

Otherwise, Kat has seemed genuine about her answers, and helpful. I like that, while she hasn't posted much, she is still communicating with the thread when she can, and keeping up with it-- but I don't like that the only thing she has kept up with seems to be the Dice/Zander debate. I would like her to go into her own reads, given the chance, or for her to at least be making a better argument for Sili, but she is instead gives him a pss for the holiday weekend, which while I understand (as we all want ot be with our families) makes me a bit wary, since PC is in less than 12 hours ( I think) and if you have thought of a good counter-wagon, that would be useful info for the people who feel locked into lynching Celeste simply because there are no better options... about the holiday weekend, actually since i'm 'working' or 'sleeping' basically 24/7 with an hour break here and there i'm always like this. get used to it imo.

 

So at the moment, I'm not entirely certain how I feel about Kat. While I don't hate the tinfoiling discussion that happened, or her explanation, she has consistently offered excuses about her play without then following it up with effort... but she only just got back to a comuputer today, aaaand it's at work :/ Honestly, this makes me uncomfortable, because we all have excuses for why we can't be here at times, but I feel town tries to make up for it when they get back by doubling down and contributing what they can to the discussion while they are here, and aside from the one post re: understanding Dice AND towns arguments, but having no solutions/alternatives because the game is too confusing, she hasn't done that.

 

For now I would move Kat to my Null-to-Scum Lean pile. While I can follow her trains of thought, she doesn't have enough of them, and they haven't really lead anywhere, but I'm giving her BotD now that she has access to a computer to step up her game.

so, you think she hasn't been here enough to push her reads and analysis. but you think she's been helpful and she does have reads and analysis that bespeaks town.

 

meh?

[Punished Balrog]

  On 7/3/2016 at 7:35 PM, Celeste said:

I'm playing another game besides this one so my activity won't be Star Fox huge (150 posts a day) .

 

[v]John[/v]

 

He isn't bringing his thoughts out like past games I have been in with him. They also seem to be mostly agreements instead original thoughts.

 

Here is the original vote, as well. I had that in my post but it got eaten. Bolded for relevance. 

[Sili Quirrels]

your read on a kat is a bit forced.

 

you try to go through your steps, but it's more like you're leading to a certain conclusion and everything in the post has the conclusion in mind. i honestly don't see why you can't just go to the conclusion unless you're trying to show how much work you're doing in which case i kind of don't approve because your conclusion is weak and the volume of it makes it unreadable.

[Sili Quirrels]

[unvote]

[v]princess[/v]

[Sili Quirrels]

pretty confident about this.

[Sili Quirrels]

or we can lynch celeste i suppose. either or.

[Sili Quirrels]

aj is meh. maybe he was misunderstanding stuff.

 

kind of reminds me of what happened between me and zander though. i push him then zander pretends he doesn't understand and poof zander pockets me.

[Sili Quirrels]

ironically the less lenlo talks about the game, the better i feel about him.

[Sili Quirrels]

that's probably a bad thing.

[SiRReN]

  On 7/4/2016 at 4:31 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

I dislike pre-prepared wots because it seems like you're trying to articulate case work without actually going through the visible mental process of getting there. Therefore it's often null with respect to allignment, and sometimes there is tunneling going on.

 

sorry, lament aside, ill read it now.

  On 7/4/2016 at 4:19 PM, PrincessBFlea said:

Kat ISO:

 

The first thing she does that catches my attention is the tinfoiling comment, mostly because A) I read it as joking when I first saw it, and then because even once I knew it was serious, nothing about it or her explanation for it reads as scummy for me, as I could actually follow her train of thought even though she doesn't seem to know how to put it into words. At the point that she made the tinfoiling comment, she had already seen Lenlo make a couple of posts re: Sili and their alignment, all of it trending towards town without actually saying it. And she was right, at the time it WAS weird, but on her part it was nothing more than an observation. I feel the ensuing conflict between her and Lenlo was simply based on a mis-understanding of early-game joke-posting. Overall, not alignment indicative at the least.

 

Otherwise, Kat has seemed genuine about her answers, and helpful. I like that, while she hasn't posted much, she is still communicating with the thread when she can, and keeping up with it-- but I don't like that the only thing she has kept up with seems to be the Dice/Zander debate. I would like her to go into her own reads, given the chance, or for her to at least be making a better argument for Sili, but she is instead gives him a pss for the holiday weekend, which while I understand (as we all want ot be with our families) makes me a bit wary, since PC is in less than 12 hours ( I think) and if you have thought of a good counter-wagon, that would be useful info for the people who feel locked into lynching Celeste simply because there are no better options... about the holiday weekend, actually since i'm 'working' or 'sleeping' basically 24/7 with an hour break here and there i'm always like this. get used to it imo.

 

So at the moment, I'm not entirely certain how I feel about Kat. While I don't hate the tinfoiling discussion that happened, or her explanation, she has consistently offered excuses about her play without then following it up with effort... but she only just got back to a comuputer today, aaaand it's at work :/ Honestly, this makes me uncomfortable, because we all have excuses for why we can't be here at times, but I feel town tries to make up for it when they get back by doubling down and contributing what they can to the discussion while they are here, and aside from the one post re: understanding Dice AND towns arguments, but having no solutions/alternatives because the game is too confusing, she hasn't done that.

 

For now I would move Kat to my Null-to-Scum Lean pile. While I can follow her trains of thought, she doesn't have enough of them, and they haven't really lead anywhere, but I'm giving her BotD now that she has access to a computer to step up her game.

so, you think she hasn't been here enough to push her reads and analysis. but you think she's been helpful and she does have reads and analysis that bespeaks town.

 

meh?

You shouldn't write inside someone's post like that (the blue bit, Princess didn't write that). It confuses the post.

[Sili Quirrels]

  On 7/4/2016 at 4:42 PM, SiRReN said:

You shouldn't write inside someone's post like that (the blue bit, Princess didn't write that). It confuses the post.

 

 

 

wtf.

[Sili Quirrels]

how the hell does it confuse you.

 

don't dare tell me what i shouldn't do.