[Advanced]Lost mafia - Game over - Sili, SK wins!

[Turin Turambar]

 

I think I figured out what was bugging me about it. It's the fact that it's obvious. Looking for scum in active players is what everyone does, and I couldn't figure out why you were pointing it out.

 

Also, why did you specifically point it out about seph?

Because of the previous game. He's the most recent in my memory. It was me playing too. Nothing actually serious. You and Hallia just made it very serious for no reason whatsoever.

 

I'm done on it now. Not going to further explain my half-playful not-alignment-indicative comment to seph.

 

I really don't like when people tell us their posts are not alignment indicative. 

 

 

The above post alone practically guarantees town elrick.  Havent read up yet, just saw that and wanted to comment.

Agreed.

 

 

 

 

Besie, my all-knowing sense on Shad (well, very strong gut here) is that he's town this game *nods*

 

I do hope you are too

Very well. You do have great gut reads. Both as town and as wolf.

 

 

 

To everyone missing the obvious, the last was a joke. Duh. Stop seeing trouble where there's none to be found.

Have you ever played with Town!Thane.....

Can't remember. I think not. Either way, I'm winging it.

 

 

 

Weird imo. Gave reasons for the town reads, only one of which was a real logical reason.

 

Her wolf reads are kinda eh. They are both wolf because one person trusts the other? Thats a one way relationship, so why does it make Darthe wolf? Like I could understand the Seph one cause buddying, but I dont see how it implicates Darthe

I don't hate this.

 

Besie, can you expand on your reasoning?  I should tell you, though, trying to pocket me will not work :P

You're not pocketed already? Sadness.

 

Also, no. Not going to expand on it. See p12 for the furthest reaches of my explanation.

 

she feels very closed off. Refusing to answer / expand on her positions or give proper reasoning for her stances. 

[Eldrick4221]

I focused on you, Turin, because you brought up the sk concept d1, and then there were 2 kills.

 

That's why you being involved in one of the kills has a higher probability in my mind than everyone else that mentioned Kivam being the more likely mafia kill. That's why I am sussing you over it and not other people.

[Eldrick4221]

I can't stick around to talk to you Turin. I have stuff to do tomorrow and have to try to get some sleep.

[Eldrick4221]

Out of curiosity, does anyone want to own up to the second kill?

[dicetosser1]

 

vote seph

Did you mention seph earlier? this looks a bit out of the blue. 

 

Noting to look at you in this time frame for reference.

 

 

i voted him yesterday and i mentioned him before i voted

[Sili Quirrels]

Out of curiosity, does anyone want to own up to the second kill?

i feel like you've been angling to ask this of Turin for a while now only you haven't said the words yet. Why is that?

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

 

@ darthe in regards to your besie quote. (Not trying to re quote any of that)

 

I hate when people purposely play wolfy as town to help there wolf game. If they wanna play like a wolf, I'm going to lynch them like a wolf.

I don't see this ever helping town. I also don't see any reason atm to not lynch besie. Continuing my reread

 

As you wish. If you think I'm town though, then that is the worst idea I've ever heard.

 

Green: How do you even play like a wolf without being a wolf? I can't mislead you. I know nothing. I'm definitely not going to purposefully post stuff that I don't agree with (and I don't even do that as wolf!). My WIM is way to high for that.

 

Purple. No. It won't help town. I want to hear your "definition" of "playing wolfy" before commenting further, please.

 

you basically said, you want to model your town game, after your wolfgame if I remember correctly.  So yes you can purposely play scummy.

 

Definition of playing wolfy is pretty big area. Everyone has different ways to wolf/ hunt for wolves. but I think the general consensus would be anything that isn't pro town.

 

 

Yes... but you don't know how I play wolf? Have we ever been scum together? 

I'll tell you anyway: When I'm wolf, I play as if I'm town. I'm very capable of closing my mind and ignoring the fact that I'm actually wolf.

The only time I become an actual proper wolf, is when I see the wolves starting to go down and then try to play mind games.

 

That's not the case this time. This is also D1. Do you think I'm town, or do you think I'm wolf? 

 

this is a weird convo with Seph. It really reads to be coming from a mafia PoV. It is all deflection and dismissal. 

 

Someone doesn't necessarily need to be on a team together with another to see things they will associate with their ( and general ) wolf games. If they were in the game or even specced it they could well have some insight. So this is malarkey to me. 

 

Additionally She states that she plays wolf as town. So how is that possible if you have never been town. You can try to emulate what you have seen townies do. 

 

Bold: might be a reason for her EoD if Seph or Celeste are mafia. They were the leaders prior to the poll plan. 

 

Last lines She says in a weird way that she isn't mafia. Is there a problem with just saying that you are town? It seems like you are avoiding doing ti whenever possible. why ask twice? Just weird to me. 

 

 

 

Statistically, Besie being wolf yet again would be insane (and one would have made a lot of money if there would have been bets on it) 

 

on the other hand, she did want to break the new player scum streak record, and can be stubborn.....

Can you explain what you were trying to say about Bessie here? I am reading it two very different ways.I think because there seems to be some inconsistency between the bold and underlined. 

 

I could just be readin it weird tho. But please clarify.

 

 

I'm going to clarify some of this, because it's me you're talking about and I'm not sure if you're up to speed.

 

This is my 4th mafia game. In all 3 the previous ones I was wolf. See my siggy.

 

I knew the situation but thanks for taking time to answer. 

 

@ besie. I think your a wolf. I haven't seen you do much, or anything to actually help solve the game.

Maybe I am forgetting something, if I did I'll find it in my reread. But for now your one of my too lynch suspects for d1.

 

I think besie at best is null. She hasn't really done much to tell her alignment. Last game she was generally town in the beginning.

I actually strongly disagree with this. Last game I highly sussed her d1. She really didn't have to do anything though because the entire town jumped in to defend a wolf besie.

 

Penneh you are playing entirely different this game, and I don't really like it :(

 

Well she still has Zander  

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

vote seph

Did you mention seph earlier? this looks a bit out of the blue. 

 

Noting to look at you in this time frame for reference.

 

 

i voted him yesterday and i mentioned him before i voted

 

I did see the mention post. Thanks. I still need to look for progression there. 

 

Bes taking longer than expected. might need to trim it up more. 

[Sili Quirrels]

on the subject of what is wolfy, basically it is anything that implies TMI or  is inconsistent with the person's point of view.

 

some examples include when a person jumps to the easy conclusion a villager is a villager for some weak reason and keeps to the read because it's correct, or when a person says they are concerned about coalescing votes on a couple wagons, but does not follow through.

[Sili Quirrels]

The former example is Zander and the latter is Bessie.

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

 

This is what I get for passing on mobile with a now-mobile one year old distracting me. Meant to finish that first sentence with "anyone else"? Or are the rest of us here?

 

For now: [v]zander[/v]

Raisins?

 

You and Hally seem to be avoiding each other. Considering how well you read each other, that suggests one or both of you may be a wolf

 

!!!!!!!

 

 

You're right!!! They talked like they were 2 peas in a pod in the previous game.

 

Jumps right on how TOWN Z1.0 and TOWN Hallia are "different" and it sounds like implying that there is something to it. 

 

 

@ besie. I think your a wolf. I haven't seen you do much, or anything to actually help solve the game.

Maybe I am forgetting something, if I did I'll find it in my reread. But for now your one of my too lynch suspects for d1.

 

I think besie at best is null. She hasn't really done much to tell her alignment. Last game she was generally town in the beginning.

I actually strongly disagree with this. Last game I highly sussed her d1. She really didn't have to do anything though because the entire town jumped in to defend a wolf besie.

 

Penneh you are playing entirely different this game, and I don't really like it :(

 

You have to remember that she was hydra the previous game. She stepped in and went wild to defend their town honor after Gia made them sound like scum.

 

Defends Celeste for no real reason but doesn't reply to Seph's sussing her. He is right that she hasn't done any real solving to this point that I  remember.

 

 

@ besie. I think your a wolf. I haven't seen you do much, or anything to actually help solve the game.

Maybe I am forgetting something, if I did I'll find it in my reread. But for now your one of my too lynch suspects for d1.

I think besie at best is null. She hasn't really done much to tell her alignment. Last game she was generally town in the beginning.

I actually strongly disagree with this. Last game I highly sussed her d1. She really didn't have to do anything though because the entire town jumped in to defend a wolf besie.

Penneh you are playing entirely different this game, and I don't really like it :(

 

Am I? I didn't really see anything suspicious about besie until the time I roleblocked her. Isn't not doing much usually null though.

 

Celeste defends Besie back but really doesn't reply to Seph's going at her. I find this weird indeed.  

 

 

Besie whay do you think about penneh this game?

Celeste? No opinion yet.

 

 

 

I've also been thinking about the thing previously said - about Zander and hallia not talking. Because they know each other so well, it's probably because one of them is scum.  Also, if the scum tricked me into thinking it - well done.

 

Anyway,  so my current thought is that Zander is probably town (I just feel better towards him) and Hallia scum.

 

Zander, why aren't you talking to Hallia?

 

She has no opinion on Celeste but defended her in a way that implied (IMO) that she had her as a town read, or at least not mafia. She herself stated that people shouldn't defend against the way a case was made but only if they had the person as town for their own reasons. This is inconsistent with her statement. Maybe that's why she isn't giving much reasoning because she can't keep her story straight. 

 

The bold is classic considering the flips to date. She susses both Z1.0 and Hallia but backs away from Z all the better to pocket him. Goes after Hallia (dead town) and casts shade at Kiv (dead town) by saying that he may have tricked her into thinking it, This also absolves her of her vote on Hallia because that mafia man tricked her. I say that she saw an opportunity and jumped at it. 

 

[dicetosser1]

you wont find a lot turin    ive been fairly quiet today and when i did post it was mostly regarding either you  or the lenlo/besie subject

[Turin Turambar]

I have to go, but here's a quick list (in no order)

 

Probably town:

Zander

Lenlo

Dice

Eldrick

Nyn

Besie

 

I don't know:

Darthe

Celeste

Thane

Kivam

 

Probably scum:

Hallia

Turin (not to lynch D1)

Shad

Sili

Her one reads list I think.

 

Mafia are Hallia (dead town), ME ( I know I'm town), Shad (claimed mason), Sili (Who is quite town IMO)

Celeste is null, but Bes defended her from Seph.

Seph is missing from the list. 

 

 

Bess, you have me a "probably" mafia but are saying not to lynch D1. Please expand on this. 

 

Well, I do not know your playing style at all, and to me you're more null than not. In colour, you'd be... TURIN

 

However, I agree with several players in that Hallia and Zander not talking talking so much could indicate that one of them is scum - because they know the other will be able to tell. I've set Zander as town. So IF this theory is correct, then Hallia is scum. 

 

Something of her posts around page 27 made me feel like you two could be W/W. That means you're wolf by association - and that is also the reason why I am not wtl you D1. I'd like to see what you do; read your ideas and opinions a bit more; see more interactions between you and other players - so that I can decide where you'd lie in my read list.

 

I'm guilty by association with Hallia (dead town). some thing (vague is vague) led her to think we could be W/W.  So If I was only guilty by association with Hallia and you backed off Hallia because you believed her town claim why did you go to me (who you weren't voting IIRC)? Doesn't really make any sense.

 

 

 

 

Bess, you have me a "probably" mafia but are saying not to lynch D1. Please expand on this.

Well, I do not know your playing style at all, and to me you're more null than not. In colour, you'd be... TURIN

 

However, I agree with several players in that Hallia and Zander not talking talking so much could indicate that one of them is scum - because they know the other will be able to tell. I've set Zander as town. So IF this theory is correct, then Hallia is scum.

 

Something of her posts around page 27 made me feel like you two could be W/W. That means you're wolf by association - and that is also the reason why I am not wtl you D1. I'd like to see what you do; read your ideas and opinions a bit more; see more interactions between you and other players - so that I can decide where you'd lie in my read list.

Can you show me what you saw irt Hallia Turin poss being w/w my dear?

Eh... I actually can't remember why I thought that at that point in time. I never wrote it down...

 

can't find the reason. 

 

Was gut feeling at that time.

 

Now... I don't know.

backpedal. 

 

Further fwiw, I didn't fully understand Hallia's reasoning for voting me. I didn't bring it up because it feels like she and I have been at each others' throats since the previous game. Granted, I was scum there and wanted her gone (she was vig and killed me N2). Still, didn't want to bring my sensitivity about it into this game.

 

So when Turin later said her reasoning made sense to him and it was "good progression" (or whatever his words were), I was like what...? So he's still more scummy than null to me.

Immediately tries to deflect the conversation onto Hallia. all shade and dismissal of Hallia's reasoning (it must be from the past game) without actually discussing the case.  I don't think that she ever actually asked Hallia to explain her vote. 

 

The above post had me more null than mafia so she isn't even consistent within this small timeline. 

 

She is outed IMO. 

[Sili Quirrels]

I think you outed her a while ago.

[Sili Quirrels]

Let's just get this over with

[Sili Quirrels]

I focused on you, Turin, because you brought up the sk concept d1, and then there were 2 kills.

 

That's why you being involved in one of the kills has a higher probability in my mind than everyone else that mentioned Kivam being the more likely mafia kill. That's why I am sussing you over it and not other people.

 

Are you not paying attention to the game, or do you just think the town would dismiss this as twtbaw?

[Sili Quirrels]

Crickets.

 

I am probably going to vote you tomorrow.

[Sili Quirrels]

No one better peek Eldrick this time.

[Turin Turambar]

Here we get to the "plan" I believe that at this point Seph and Celeste were the vote leaders with 2 each. 

 

 

Okay. It's now 3,5 hours before DL.

Will everyone please give their WTL lists? (Minimum 3 names).

Then we can see which name most people are wtl, and we can get on with it.

Asks for it.

 

Mine for right now is (most wtl to least) Shad, Turin, Hallia, Darthe.

Kivam isn't on her list at all. Who is. a dead townie, me, a claimed mason and Darthe.

 

Yeah... without updated wtl lists, it seems that most have seph/shad/Turin somewhere in their wtl's

She puts "everyone as having Seph/shad/ me in their WTL list. Doesn't turn out that way. I think that this might spew Seph town if Bes is mafia. It would also make Celeste look worse IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay. It's now 3,5 hours before DL.

Will everyone please give their WTL lists? (Minimum 3 names).

Then we can see which name most people are wtl, and we can get on with it.

seph shad kivam.

If Shads a suss why not Thane?

cause i looked at him for like an hour and thought to myself this doesn't give me wolf vibes i guess ill move on.

What do you think about his soft claim tho?

If youre Town reading Thane you pretty much have to be Town reading Shad.

What? Why are you connecting Thane to Shad?

 

There had already been substantial discussion about Thane/Shad being masons together.  Request for Derp clearance denied.

 

I'm a mason with Thane and you're all retarded.

Shad hardclaims masons with Thane. 

 

 

What are your thoughts on Kivam, Besie? <3

<3

Mmm, I don't know him very well at all + struggling to read him. Can't really see much from his posts, but something Nyn said on p35 made me think he might be scummy. Maybe. Also going to trust the thoughts of people who I think is town.

 

no read. Puts her faith in something Nyn said to be abe to imply he might be mafia without having to give a reason of her own. This may be spewing Nyn/Z2.0 town if Bes is mafia. Mafia  are more likely to hide behind a townie than to use a teammate when sussing a townie (Kiv in this case).

 

 

Yes

Oh. [unvote]

It could just be a smart ploy by the scum too, you know

 

unvotes Shad. She wasn't voting me like she said she thought she was.  Immediately tries to keep a bit of shade on him/them.

 

I understand, Turin, but I'd rather we stand together as a whole town, than leave it to either (1) the person that accidentally got maybe 1 vote more, or (2) chance / coin flip because of a draw.

Included simply for the lulz

 

 

 

I think that Bes and Celeste are mafia together. I think that the poll plan was doing something wacky to defend against a teammate going down.  Her reads are insubstantial and most of her pushes have been sheeping other people. 

[Sili Quirrels]

I have a similar mafia team. Let's hope the masons are town.

[Turin Turambar]

Yes. Hoping that is the case. I think that one good point in their favour is that Thane seems to have been ready to basically ride the claim. Like he knew it was in their back pocket. 

 

Also I think it would be risky to claim D1 under heat as their could have been a "real" set of masons to cc and that would have been suicide.

 

Plus the breadcrumbing.

 

 

*fingers crossed there

[Sili Quirrels]

also the possibility of there being a cop or other detective role and the fact that coming into f5 with both masons around is a no-no for the wolves.

[Guest]

 

Besie read of zander-lime please?

No change, Sili. He's been defending me, which I don't see as alignment indicative at all. He did the same thing as Zander1.0. Which means that he could either be (1) a town and just continuing his gameplay, or (2) scum and continuing as he was before because he knows we thought he was town then.

 

Is his gameplay D2 towny? No. Is it scummy? No.

 

 

Besie's "3 towns" post

 

 

 

 

Lol Len

 

I'm leaving it to 50/50. I am for both Hallia and Kivam, so let's see.

Yeah I know. What happened to trusting your town core Bess? I thought 6 voices were better then 1? I thought you were bringing them togther to FIGHT THE RANDOM

Lol Len. I don't see what your problem is, honey. It was an idea that you obviously hated. Only 3 towns actually went for the plan.

 

 

Lol Len

 

I'm leaving it to 50/50. I am for both Hallia and Kivam, so let's see.

Yeah I know. What happened to trusting your town core Bess? I thought 6 voices were better then 1? I thought you were bringing them togther to FIGHT THE RANDOM

Lol Len. I don't see what your problem is, honey. It was an idea that you obviously hated. Only 3 towns actually went for the plan.

 

 

"3 towns" mentioned: Sili, Hallia, Zander

 

Most recent reads list prior to the comment:

 

I have to go, but here's a quick list (in no order)

 

Probably town:

Zander

Lenlo

Dice

Eldrick

Nyn

Besie

 

I don't know:

Darthe

Celeste

Thane

Kivam

 

Probably scum:

Hallia

Turin (not to lynch D1)

Shad

Sili

 

 

 

 

Calls Hally town because of her VT claim.

 

No mention of Sili between the them except for listing his name in the WTL data.

 

Prognosis: Besie TMI by calling Sili, her scum read, town.

 

[unvote]

[v]Besie[/v]

I was the third, in my mind. Not Sili.

 

 

I just skimmed to catch up. nothing I saw has changed my mind on the lynch.

sorry shad Ill answer anything you need but I lost alot of wim after hallia, and I am currently just not in a good mood.

Only Hallia?

[Guest]

 

I just skimmed to catch up. nothing I saw has changed my mind on the lynch.

sorry shad Ill answer anything you need but I lost alot of wim after hallia, and I am currently just not in a good mood.

You made a huge flipflop of never lynching Besie vote!Turin to rolling with Turin on a Besie lynch and it wasn't really clear to me why.

 

You posted a suspect list that didn't seem to make much sense and atm I'm not going to dig it up for the specifics but you should be able to give me a more detailed breakdown of who and why now anyway.

 

You were kind of pop-in-ish and didn't make much sense to me in general and it seemed alarming because I felt like you were super into the game D1.

 

I remember in ToS you continued to dominate the thread even when it was fairly likely town had already mechanically lost.

 

It just feels generally odd and I don't want to end up mislynching you down the line if you're a villa.

I agree with most of this post. Had 80% the same thoughts. I just can't really see him being town anymore.

 

How will it affect your judgement of him if I flip town?

 

 

To clarify, if turin flips/is peeked wolf, I will admit I am most likely wrong on Besie being wolf

Sorry, what? I'm a bit surprised, tbqh. And how will your Turin thoughts be effected if I flip town?

 

 

 

 

 

Seems to me Zander is doing it for her.

Quite a gambit, considering he got shot.

I dont think it's a gambit. I think he really has no skill for shedding his outside the game bias of her. Some folks do that stuff.

This was about Besie, not Zander. /shrug

So with these posts, you say Zander got shot. There's 4 options that can see:

 

1. In the world where I am scum - why would I ever shoot (NK) Zander? He was the person top town reading me.

2. In the world where I am scum -someone else might have vigged him - and I don't see why, unless they were certain that I was scum, and made him scum by association. We'll have to go see who had me as scum before end N1 to identify if there was someone. There was quite a few votes on me, but it'll be interesting to see how many of them were solid, consistently, scum reading me.

3. In the world where I am town - the scum could have shot Zander because he is the person that wasn't even a doubt of being town on most minds. He was the only one that had me as solid town read. When someone said "the scum usually want the town to remain dead" - this made sense to me. Cause if the latter reason is the right one (or at least part of the reason), then him subbing in is quite an annoyance.

4. In the world where I am town - Zander was vigged. This, I don't get at all. He wasn't thought to be scum.

 

So. Considering that I actually am town this game, and #4 does not make sense at all, it's safe for me to assume that #3 is the most likely to have occurred.  Most. Likely.

 

 

I think Kivam might have been killed because of his claim. Zander is the kill I don't understand.

Agreed with the latter.

 

 

it's a lot easier to be confident in a train when the subject of the train isn't around to act emotional and confuse me.

Who are you talking about here?

[Guest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol Len

 

I'm leaving it to 50/50. I am for both Hallia and Kivam, so let's see.

Yeah I know. What happened to trusting your town core Bess? I thought 6 voices were better then 1? I thought you were bringing them togther to FIGHT THE RANDOM

Lol Len. I don't see what your problem is, honey. It was an idea that you obviously hated. Only 3 towns actually went for the plan.

 

 

 

... okay 3 people that I hope is town.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol Len

 

I'm leaving it to 50/50. I am for both Hallia and Kivam, so let's see.

Yeah I know. What happened to trusting your town core Bess? I thought 6 voices were better then 1? I thought you were bringing them togther to FIGHT THE RANDOM

Lol Len. I don't see what your problem is, honey. It was an idea that you obviously hated. Only 3 towns actually went for the plan.

After day ended but before hallia flipped.

 

Wanna reconsider???

 

 

No not really.

 

Why didnt you quote her follow up.

Because it was irrelevant. It was the initial post that is damning. Think back to the Eldrick voting Thane and then Turin back when Eld and Thane were mafia together. That is what it means to slip. Just because she (and he did as well) went back and caught it does not erase the first post.

 

 

 

So you were saying about a slip. And I understand why you say this. I've done it before. But in this post:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you saying Besie looks sketchy cause she tabulated everyone's WTL.....cause unless youre claiming her math is wrong, this is awful.

I am NOT saying that her math is wrong. I am saying that she framed the results in a manner to cast more doubt on townies than on people that I have found suspect during the course of the game. Kiv was town. I know I;m town (I understand this is my PoV and you may not be able to see that for whatever reason). Celeste has been a question mark to me. Darthe has been a bit weird but I am sort of waiting to see what happens by end of day.  I am saying that the people I think are townies are getting put nearer the top of the list to make it look like they are worse than the ones below. It is a psychological thing IMO. Start at tht top of the list and work your way down. The pattern repeats going down the list as Shad (claimed mason) and Hallia (dead townie) are both above Seph.

 

(5) Kivam dead townie

(4) Turin I know I'm town

(4) Celeste: unknown

(4)Darthe: unknown

(3) Shad claimed mason

(3) Hallia dead townie

(3) Seph: unknown

(2) Sili: unknown

(2) Nyn/Z2.0: unknown

(2) Thane claimed mason

(1) Besie: unknown

 

also think turin is saying her math is swrong and that's why and yeah that much is sketchy lol.

 

See above.

 

First you say the bolded part, which sounds like TMI. And then, later in the same post, you fix yourself. It reads like an afterthought. My point is, that sounds like a slip and a fix in the same post. You honestly want to say that my doing the exact same thing - but stretched over 2 posts that were sent directly after one another - was more scummy than your doing it within one post?