MAFIA KART WII [BASIC] - Mafia Sweep

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

Will y'all both be around when I catch up, Clov, Liz? I'm on p24 atm, reading kind of slow so that I don't miss anything.

I'll probably head for bed around 11pm EST

 

Ahhh dammit. Um can you concisely explain the Calder/Zander thing you have going on? I keep seeing it in spurts but I don't have a reference point to figure out what's going on exactly.

 

Basically I don't understand Zander being so accepting of Calder ignoring my unexplained vote on him (Calder) while being all up in Celeste's grill about her supposedly not questioning me enough about my unexplained scum comment to her. To me Calder's lack of reaction is a bigger deal than Celeste's questioning and then choosing to move on from it. He's given an explanation that I still don't get, but I'm letting it rest...for now. I just think he's applying a double standard since a) he knows that Celeste and I have played together before and therefore have some kind of reference for determining how to go about reading each other (rightly or wrongly) and b) Calder has never played with me before, so really he doesn't have any frame of reference for interpreting my (seemingly) random vote on him and therefore I'd expect some questioning of Calder not questioning it.

 

 

Questioning from Zander to Calder?

 

I expected some questioning from Calder to me.

 

And since that didn't happen and Zander seemed so focused on Celeste not questioning me, then I expected some questioning from Zander to Calder.

[alannalynn]

ENFPs are strange. You're like the opposite of me. =/

[Cory Caboose]

Vote Count

 

Seph - 2 - Calder, Clovdyx

Sili - 1 - Darthe
Calder - 3 - Zevrynne, seph, Lizabeth
Penny - 1 - Zander
Zevrynne - 1 - Lizabeth

Hallia - 1 - Sili Quirrels
 
Not Voting: Hallia, alannalynn, Thane Vakarian
 
Deadline will be 9:00 PM E/ST on 4/21 (Thursday).

[Cory Caboose]

Are you guys behaving

If you aren't, you know that means you get a paddlin'

[alannalynn]

#399 Can't hate this from Liz

#401 I'm kind of chocking up Seph's early posts as trying to get the thread going, which in the long run is going to be pretty null as it can come from either alignment who wants a head start on a town read. At the moment, I like the jumpstart into the game (he's who you can thank for 17 pages of not-spam or gifs), so he's getting town read for the moment. I expect him to live up to that or fall from it. IRT his push on me, I laughed at him and moved on.

#413 Clov's assessment on Calder rings true, worded better than my conclusion I just posted on p35 or whatever <_<

#440 Seph you're going to have to cut down your posts a little, damn. . . or even just spoiler the quotes you're using
*reminder to ISO Calder

Also, irt your conclusion on me. I've gotten really good at those catch up posts as either alignment. Sustainability isn't a problem. lol.
 

I guess I'm just used to a quicker startup...and it makes me nervous when people post once then don't. I've seem a few games where scum has won by lurking and letting town pick off each other to the end. By the time town noticed it was too late to do anything about it.

This is a little extreme, we're on DM, we don't let lurkers go unnoticed, trust me. But we're also not going to lynch them d1 because that basically means d2 is d1 all over again. I generally just use pressure votes and start yelling at people to get them in the thread, tbh

I think Zander is reading the Celeste/Liz situation differently. @Zander, think about how Lenlo feels when you attack him most every game. Then replace Lenlo with Celeste and you with Liz. That's pretty much how I'm reading this.

Seph defensive to Clov's analysis. @Seph: you think Clov was misrepping you about the start of the game?
 

reasons i questioned alanna at the beginning. to clear this up
1. her op. Every game I have played her, I bet alanna has been in 90% of them. I think that is a unusual Op for her, IT had nothing to do with tone.
2. her darthe vote. She said she wanted to gather reactions, and see who would notice because she doesn't normally vote early. however she ruined it by explaining that in the very next post. So yes I found that odd.
3. the flip flop thing as I explained was to see if she would try to explain the situation or simply give me something like she did. (angry, etc)

What kind of read DID you make based on my reactions?

I like Seph's reactions to Clov's prodding, actually

#506 @Sili what makes you think Zev isn't a wolf? I remember like one post.

Kind of skimming now, not as much meat to go through as with the Liz/Celeste back and forth, then subsequent Clov/Sili discussion

Zander is strangely under my radar. He's not making big splashes yet, or else they're not going anywhere.

Liz is town
Celeste still null for me until I see more of her outside of all that talk

Zander still in question mode and catching up...nullish
 

laine, if you vote hallia i will also vote hallia. how about it?

??? I have no read on Hally.

I kinda want to poke Liz and Zander in the eyes if they say "as a fellow ENFP" one more time, ffs

 

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

 

Will y'all both be around when I catch up, Clov, Liz? I'm on p24 atm, reading kind of slow so that I don't miss anything.

I'll probably head for bed around 11pm EST

 

Ahhh dammit. Um can you concisely explain the Calder/Zander thing you have going on? I keep seeing it in spurts but I don't have a reference point to figure out what's going on exactly.

 

 

Basically I don't understand Zander being so accepting of Calder ignoring my unexplained vote on him (Calder) while being all up in Celeste's grill about her supposedly not questioning me enough about my unexplained scum comment to her. To me Calder's lack of reaction is a bigger deal than Celeste's questioning and then choosing to move on from it. He's given an explanation that I still don't get, but I'm letting it rest...for now. I just think he's applying a double standard since a) he knows that Celeste and I have played together before and therefore have some kind of reference for determining how to go about reading each other (rightly or wrongly) and b) Calder has never played with me before, so really he doesn't have any frame of reference for interpreting my (seemingly) random vote on him and therefore I'd expect some questioning of Calder not questioning it.

 

I've been unable to follow Zander's responses this game, but do you think it has anything to do with personality? As in, Calder seemingly doesn't care about the vote, but Penny was rather reactive and garnered more attention. Calder isn't really the type to get all bothered about one vote in the first place, so I'm not sure I'm seeing it as a big deal, personally. A vote is a vote, but you probably had a reason for it, what was it?

 

Also do you think that Zander is defending Calder in some way? Do you think Calder is the type that needs defending?

 

IDK about personality. I don't know Calder's play, other than I've heard (rumours) that he is a strong player. So I'm dependent in part on other people to help me understand his play. And what I've gotten from the feedback is that it could go either way. So for now I'm gonna stick with my gut read that something is off until something better comes up.

 

It did feel to me as though Zander was first of all avoiding my questions to him about Calder, even after we had a playful exchange about the gentlemanliness of him asking me about the vote and Calder not asking me.

 

I believe I explained my vote on Calder way back - basically I don't see him as doing much of anything so far this game, and I expect more from a player who has been described to me as strong.

[alannalynn]

Are you guys behaving

If you aren't, you know that means you get a paddlin'

(nerdy)

[Lizabeth]

ENFPs are strange. You're like the opposite of me. =/

ENFPs and INTJs are like soul mates hatched in unicorn heaven

[alannalynn]

 

Are you guys behaving

If you aren't, you know that means you get a paddlin'

[alannalynn]

 

ENFPs are strange. You're like the opposite of me. =/

ENFPs and INTJs are like soul mates hatched in unicorn heaven

 

no.

[Lizabeth]

I kinda want to poke Liz and Zander in the eyes if they say "as a fellow ENFP" one more time, ffs

 

 

Well, as a non ENFP, you need to understand...

 

*covers eyes*

[Lizabeth]

 

 

ENFPs are strange. You're like the opposite of me. =/

ENFPs and INTJs are like soul mates hatched in unicorn heaven

 

no.

 

It's written in the MBTI scriptures, though

[Clovdyx]

@Clov - because I don't feel like editing through a whole lot of multiquotes (I know how to edit it after the fact, I was just hoping there was a way to be able to quote one post at a time rather than pulling up all the quotes that the person I want to respond to has responded to).

 

1. Yes.

 

2. *sigh* Ni....

 

It is an answer. Anyone I've voted for today (except for my initial RVS vote on whoever it was that basically dared us not to lynch him) was placed on someone I'd potentially be okay with lynching. Doesn't mean I'm going to insist on their lynch until I have more information that directs me one way or the other.

 

So was it serious in the sense that I was okay with it potentially leading to an actual lynch if I didn't like what arose from the push on her? Yes. Was I bound and determined to actually lynch her at that point without additional information? No.

 

3. Because I don't think that the middle group is particularly relevant to what I'm trying to say and I'm not going to start calling out people for poor play. I'm saying that I'm having a hard time reading who is mafia right now. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I usually can pick out at least two or three fairly strong scum reads by now, and all I have is a couple of strong town reads based mainly on emotional tone and a big pile of null. So I don't believe that the mafia players are active players who are leaving obvious breadcrumbs. Either that or it should be obvious and I'm just doing a particularly shitty job this game.

 

Of course your votes were on people you were okay with lynching.  The only person who puts a vote on somebody they don't want lynched is me (hi, Lainey ).  That doesn't mean you want them dead though.

 

I'm pretty sure I know what you're trying to say.  What I'm trying to say is saying "We need to kill somebody playing well or the inactives" doesn't tell who you WANT dead, who you're OKAY with lynching, and who you'll actively fight for.  I know you don't like those big ordered lists, and neither do I, but that's not the only way to go about getting your thoughts out.  I know your reasons for a couple people, but there are 8 or 9 people I have no idea how you feel about them.  You love Penny and hate IR.  If that means everybody else is null, just say that.

[alannalynn]

IDK about personality. I don't know Calder's play, other than I've heard (rumours) that he is a strong player. So I'm dependent in part on other people to help me understand his play. And what I've gotten from the feedback is that it could go either way. So for now I'm gonna stick with my gut read that something is off until something better comes up.

It did feel to me as though Zander was first of all avoiding my questions to him about Calder, even after we had a playful exchange about the gentlemanliness of him asking me about the vote and Calder not asking me.

 

I believe I explained my vote on Calder way back - basically I don't see him as doing much of anything so far this game, and I expect more from a player who has been described to me as strong.

 

The problem with Calder is that he intentionally plays scummy and that skews reads on him. I kind of take a hands off approach when it comes to him because I know if I poke the bear directly I'm just going to become more confused and wrapped up in "wtf just happened?" So yeah, Calder is an experienced player but he can't be read traditionally.

 

I'm going to take a look at a Calder iso as soon as I get a chance and see what I can glean

[Clovdyx]

 

ENFPs are strange. You're like the opposite of me. =/

ENFPs and INTJs are like soul mates hatched in unicorn heaven

 

 

I'd say what I think about this post, but Cory would be mad.

[alannalynn]

Clov I will utter no words about you still being alive if it gets to d3 and you're around and I'm being stupid. I promise.

[alannalynn]

Cory's just the right amount of extroverted that it's not overwhelming. I call him an ANFP

[Lizabeth]

 

@Clov - because I don't feel like editing through a whole lot of multiquotes (I know how to edit it after the fact, I was just hoping there was a way to be able to quote one post at a time rather than pulling up all the quotes that the person I want to respond to has responded to).

 

1. Yes.

 

2. *sigh* Ni....

 

It is an answer. Anyone I've voted for today (except for my initial RVS vote on whoever it was that basically dared us not to lynch him) was placed on someone I'd potentially be okay with lynching. Doesn't mean I'm going to insist on their lynch until I have more information that directs me one way or the other.

 

So was it serious in the sense that I was okay with it potentially leading to an actual lynch if I didn't like what arose from the push on her? Yes. Was I bound and determined to actually lynch her at that point without additional information? No.

 

3. Because I don't think that the middle group is particularly relevant to what I'm trying to say and I'm not going to start calling out people for poor play. I'm saying that I'm having a hard time reading who is mafia right now. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I usually can pick out at least two or three fairly strong scum reads by now, and all I have is a couple of strong town reads based mainly on emotional tone and a big pile of null. So I don't believe that the mafia players are active players who are leaving obvious breadcrumbs. Either that or it should be obvious and I'm just doing a particularly shitty job this game.

 

Of course your votes were on people you were okay with lynching.  The only person who puts a vote on somebody they don't want lynched is me (hi, Lainey ).  That doesn't mean you want them dead though.

 

I'm pretty sure I know what you're trying to say.  What I'm trying to say is saying "We need to kill somebody playing well or the inactives" doesn't tell who you WANT dead, who you're OKAY with lynching, and who you'll actively fight for.  I know you don't like those big ordered lists, and neither do I, but that's not the only way to go about getting your thoughts out.  I know your reasons for a couple people, but there are 8 or 9 people I have no idea how you feel about them.  You love Penny and hate IR.  If that means everybody else is null, just say that.

 

That's what I've been saying in my fancy ENFP way.

 

There's too much null for me and it's bothering me. I don't know who I really really want dead. I only know that I don't want to kill Celeste or Sili at this point. Lainey is added to the list now with her catch up. I was reading Seph as town in previous exchanges too.

 

But basically I'm paranoid about players I know to be particularly strong right now because I'm reading you and Lainey, for example, as town, but I know you're probably both capable of fooling me. So I'd feel better about you two if I had stronger scum reads to go off of. Fair or unfair, that's how it is.

 

Calder's the best I've got to go on right now. I wouldn't be shocked if he flipped town, seeing as most of the people whose reads I have faith in (basically you and Lainey) have him as null, but no one seems to have him as a strong town. So that's the best I've got.

 

I've fought the D1 lurker issue fight too many times on PerC to get into it here, but I seriously would have no problem with lynching Zev if he doens't show up and contribute. I'd rather potentially mislynch an inactive than mislynch an active who can potentially be helpful down the road. And sometimes scum hides behind inactivity, so it will piss me off to no end if we get to end game and find out that Zev was inactive scum that we ignored.

[alannalynn]

GUYS I need to go to bed soon. If there's any questions/comments directed at me before I got to bed, I'm getting a shower first so I should be around for at least 30-45 more minutes (to account for me actually gathering the ability to get up and go get a shower lol)

[Lizabeth]

 

IDK about personality. I don't know Calder's play, other than I've heard (rumours) that he is a strong player. So I'm dependent in part on other people to help me understand his play. And what I've gotten from the feedback is that it could go either way. So for now I'm gonna stick with my gut read that something is off until something better comes up.

 

It did feel to me as though Zander was first of all avoiding my questions to him about Calder, even after we had a playful exchange about the gentlemanliness of him asking me about the vote and Calder not asking me.

 

I believe I explained my vote on Calder way back - basically I don't see him as doing much of anything so far this game, and I expect more from a player who has been described to me as strong.

The problem with Calder is that he intentionally plays scummy and that skews reads on him. I kind of take a hands off approach when it comes to him because I know if I poke the bear directly I'm just going to become more confused and wrapped up in "wtf just happened?" So yeah, Calder is an experienced player but he can't be read traditionally.

 

I'm going to take a look at a Calder iso as soon as I get a chance and see what I can glean

 

Okay, fair enough. And I'm used to intentionally scummy-looking players --I often play intentionally scummy myself ^^ - but my problem with him isn't that he's playing intentionally scummy this game. It's that he seems to be just fading into the background despite having posted some. His content has no oomph to me.

[alannalynn]

Calder will become more obvious as the game progresses.

 

Zev never makes it to end game as an inactive.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

ENFPs are strange. You're like the opposite of me. =/

ENFPs and INTJs are like soul mates hatched in unicorn heaven

 

 

I'd say what I think about this post, but Cory would be mad.

 

 

(tell me on skype!)

 

 

[Clovdyx]

IDK about personality. I don't know Calder's play, other than I've heard (rumours) that he is a strong player. So I'm dependent in part on other people to help me understand his play. And what I've gotten from the feedback is that it could go either way. So for now I'm gonna stick with my gut read that something is off until something better comes up.

It did feel to me as though Zander was first of all avoiding my questions to him about Calder, even after we had a playful exchange about the gentlemanliness of him asking me about the vote and Calder not asking me.

 

I believe I explained my vote on Calder way back - basically I don't see him as doing much of anything so far this game, and I expect more from a player who has been described to me as strong.

 

 

 

IDK about personality. I don't know Calder's play, other than I've heard (rumours) that he is a strong player. So I'm dependent in part on other people to help me understand his play. And what I've gotten from the feedback is that it could go either way. So for now I'm gonna stick with my gut read that something is off until something better comes up.

It did feel to me as though Zander was first of all avoiding my questions to him about Calder, even after we had a playful exchange about the gentlemanliness of him asking me about the vote and Calder not asking me.

 

I believe I explained my vote on Calder way back - basically I don't see him as doing much of anything so far this game, and I expect more from a player who has been described to me as strong.

 

The problem with Calder is that he intentionally plays scummy and that skews reads on him. I kind of take a hands off approach when it comes to him because I know if I poke the bear directly I'm just going to become more confused and wrapped up in "wtf just happened?" So yeah, Calder is an experienced player but he can't be read traditionally.

 

I'm going to take a look at a Calder iso as soon as I get a chance and see what I can glean

 

 

I'm basically going to parrot Laine on this one about his behavior.  You know how much confidence I put in me, especially when it comes to certain players.  Calder is basically the opposite of that.  The best comparison I can come up with is he has that "You can't touch me" arrogance confidence that a player like Dizzy does, except instead of channeling into fun and cute, Calder channels it into trolling.  And unlike Dizzy, Calder is pretty consistent with it.

 

I'm not saying I won't take a stab at his alignment on D1, because let's be honest...it's me...but he's not going to be active or productive just because people thinks he ought to be.  He'll contribute when he wants to, with the scope he feels like.  

[Celeste]

@Liz About the lurker issue I don't think it really helps DM in the case that some of their quieter players are town a lot of the time

[Lizabeth]

GUYS I need to go to bed soon. If there's any questions/comments directed at me before I got to bed, I'm getting a shower first so I should be around for at least 30-45 more minutes (to account for me actually gathering the ability to get up and go get a shower lol)

I was supposed to head to bed 10 minutes ago, so...goodnight!