[Advanced] Gods and Demons Mafia - All your souls belong to Shad (Triads win)

[Celeste]

Ok. I'm back because people are keeping me up with words.

[Celeste]

Feel free to ask me questions. I will try my best to explain.

[alannalynn]

Shad's case on Monstr really bugs me, pinged me the first time I read it and I wanted to go back and fact check.

Ok, I ISO'd you, and I'm not going to do some hours-consuming post by post commentary so forgive me and correct me if any of this misreps you, but here's what I'm seeing:

D0 you came in dropping a lot of village reads, plenty of them didn't have an explanation but you did state your opinion often enough.  You gave clear reasons for calling Zander, Laine, and Lenlo town, Csarmi nullish, at least tried to explain why you couldn't explain your town read on BFG, explained why you backed down to a weaker read of Laine but still had her town.  You showed progression onto Eldrick and never backed off until the cfd call at the end.

Since D1 started you've pointed out that you were right about Zander, apologized to Eldrick while pointing out that you'd wanted to save him at the last minute.  You treated Eldrick as town but when Dice talked to you about the value of Eldrick's input you said to toss it out as he could be scum.  You explained D0 reads--reiterated why you thought Zander was town post-IC reveal and explained why you thought Laine was scummy by EoD (which you hadn't actually dropped any hint of at EoD).  You called me town when I went at you and reversed when I stopped, but didn't really answer any of my questions beyond generic "I'm allowed to change my mind", "town contradict themselves too", etc.  You talked about rules of thumb for catching scum partners for a while on the assumption that Lenlo was scum, but you never said why you voted him beyond 'attempt at pocketing denied'.  About the only game-specific and solve-relevant observation you've made is that you don't think Lenlo and Hallia can be scum partners.  You AtE 'quit' around the time I stopped keeping up.

I gather you're a fairly aware and experienced player.  I'm going to try to not assume that everything looking scummy on the surface necessarily is scummy for the face-value reason.  A lot of it could alternately function as reaction testing--though I struggle to buy that you wanted to lynch Laine on D0 but forgot to tell anybody.  Your D1 style is good cover for scum to do whatever you want and get away with it if people buy that it's all some test, and it's potentially productive play for town if you get results and act on them.  The problem is, it's not the game you were playing yesterday.  You were playing relatively open D0.  Since D1 something switched in your head to make you take a different, significantly slimier approach to this game.  I'm willing to lynch you for that.

Besides his read of me, you seem to focus on the underlined the most. 

 

This is the post you're referring to, and this is the one that quotes Lenlo's read's list where he's commenting on the pocket and the rule of two.

In order, Lenlo's list looks like this:

Zander- lock town
Eldrick- stump

Alanna- good

Sooh- alright
Shad- alright
Monstr- alright, asking questions, not srs hunting, he's gauging ppl, could be either alignment, keeping my eyes on him

Dice- want more
Turin- need more
BFG- need more
Csarmi- null
Thane- has posted
Calder- joking, not reading him

Nolder- weird is bad but not wolfy
Hally- weird is bad but not wolfy

Snow- show up or get lynched
Pral- show up or get lynched

This list looks awful when you spread it out like this. lol. Monstr gets the longest mention of pretty much anyone here. I'll quote what he said:

Monster looks alright, but its alot of questions. Hasnt really done any srs hunting of his own today. Like hes gauging how people are handling this new day. Could be done as either alignment so im gonna keep my eyes out for him.

Then at the bottom he compliments Monstr again and is fence sitting again

Atm I would look more at Hallia to understand just where her strangeness falls, Jon Snow/Pral to see if we can get inactives to show up and Monstr cause dude seems good at this game regardless of alignment.

 

I can see exactly where Monstr feels he's being pocketed and why he voted Lenlo, I don't see why Shad didn't see it.

 

This is the other post that bothered me:

 

im leaning town on monstr     as i said i cant read him but he made efforts to help me with that  i cant say hes said anything scummy  but i am not taiking the ATE either way
 
shad    im scratching my head  im not totally getting why he is going at monstr

In a nutshell: I think his game changed on D1. He went from playing open to playing closed. He went from giving reads and explaining why to 'testing' people but not expressing much in the way of conclusions. When I pointed out he'd contradicted himself on Laine, he gave a sort of textbook answer instead of articulating his thought process further. I don't like the way he blew up under pressure, because I feel like he's the sort of player who can fake that and its only productive end is to get people to back off without actually working towards a solve.

Where did he contradict his read of me? He had me as villagery in a list d0, mentioned a cfd, then d1 said who he found scummy and I was in the list. That looks more like a progression to me...

I actually think his reactions under pressure and the fact that he came back and has been active in the game look good for him and I'm reading him town for it, among other things. Other things being that he's been rather townie this game and I'm not seeing the same things you're seeing.

[alannalynn]

*hugs Lainey*

*hugs* idk wtf i'm doing

[alannalynn]

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

That reads list makes me want to claw my eyes out

[alannalynn]

 

I really really really need to go to bed and attempt to be up before deadline. =/

[Eldrick4221]

 

I really really really need to go to bed and attempt to be up before deadline. =/

Good night.

 

..good luck. It's in 6 hours.

[Eldrick4221]

Biggest plus side to not having a vote. Not stressing over deadline :)

[Celeste]

[unvote]

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

Since my other read isn't really being thought of as scummy.

[alannalynn]

This is like the worst deadline ever. I'm almost never awake at noon (school days only). I work night shift 6pm-430am, me being awake at noon is a miracle. UGH.

 

If I knew today would be a snow day and I don't have to go to work I would just stay up but I'm not sure.

[alannalynn]

Wait why does Celeste have votes? I don't know of much she has going FOR her at this point due to her predecessors absence, but I don't remember seeing a case to warrant 3 votes in the VC right now lol

[Celeste]

Wait why does Celeste have votes? I don't know of much she has going FOR her at this point due to her predecessors absence, but I don't remember seeing a case to warrant 3 votes in the VC right now lol

It was just happening and I'm not getting reasons from Zander or other voters.

[Celeste]

BFG claims it is because of my confidence but is it bad to feel better about a game?

[alannalynn]

BFG claims it is because of my confidence but is it bad to feel better about a game?

Ah! You're right, now I remember. Because I noticed the same thing. You were VERY unsure last game and a lot more confident here. What changed from then to here? Do you have a reads list?

[Celeste]

 

BFG claims it is because of my confidence but is it bad to feel better about a game?

 

Ah! You're right, now I remember. Because I noticed the same thing. You were VERY unsure last game and a lot more confident here. What changed from then to here? Do you have a reads list?

Right now it's Sooh, Calder, and Lenlo that ping me. I can't really do a list because I'm posting from phone. BFG, Nolder, and Shad are in the null section. Monst, Hallia, and you are slight town. The others I'm not quite sure yet.

[Eldrick4221]

Vote count:

• Celeste - 3 - Hallia, BFG, Zander
• Turin Turambar - 2 - Lenlo, manbat
• Manbat - 2 - Shad, Turin Turambar
• Hallia - 1 - csarmi
• Shad - 1 - Sooh
• Lenlo - 2 - Laine, Celeste

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

BFG claims it is because of my confidence but is it bad to feel better about a game?

 

Ah! You're right, now I remember. Because I noticed the same thing. You were VERY unsure last game and a lot more confident here. What changed from then to here? Do you have a reads list?

Right now it's Sooh, Calder, and Lenlo that ping me. I can't really do a list because I'm posting from phone. BFG, Nolder, and Shad are in the null section. Monst, Hallia, and you are slight town. The others I'm not quite sure yet.

Whats the difference between null and unsure? Why are you differentiating those 3?

[Turin Turambar]

Eldrick, if you could vote who would you be voting right now?

[Celeste]

 

 

 

BFG claims it is because of my confidence but is it bad to feel better about a game?

Ah! You're right, now I remember. Because I noticed the same thing. You were VERY unsure last game and a lot more confident here. What changed from then to here? Do you have a reads list?

Right now it's Sooh, Calder, and Lenlo that ping me. I can't really do a list because I'm posting from phone. BFG, Nolder, and Shad are in the null section. Monst, Hallia, and you are slight town. The others I'm not quite sure yet.

Whats the difference between null and unsure? Why are you differentiating those 3?

Not quite sure means they still need to be looked at and confuse me more than the nulls.

[alannalynn]

I read that Zander is the IC. Also I have Shad, Monst, and Csarmi as slight town. Monst is town because he is scum hunting and albeit not seeing him as scum. He reminds me of Town Cass. Calder is slight scum to me because the jokish tone is rubbing me the wrong way.

 

[v]Calder[/v]

Right now it's Sooh, Calder, and Lenlo that ping me. I can't really do a list because I'm posting from phone. BFG, Nolder, and Shad are in the null section. Monst, Hallia, and you are slight town. The others I'm not quite sure yet.

 

What moved Shad from town to null? What do you think of Csarmi right now?

[Celeste]

 

I read that Zander is the IC. Also I have Shad, Monst, and Csarmi as slight town. Monst is town because he is scum hunting and albeit not seeing him as scum. He reminds me of Town Cass. Calder is slight scum to me because the jokish tone is rubbing me the wrong way.

[v]Calder[/v]

 

Right now it's Sooh, Calder, and Lenlo that ping me. I can't really do a list because I'm posting from phone. BFG, Nolder, and Shad are in the null section. Monst, Hallia, and you are slight town. The others I'm not quite sure yet.

 

 

What moved Shad from town to null? What do you think of Csarmi right now?

Csarmi is doing better than he did in WoW but I think I should see more so I'm not a pocket for him.

[Celeste]

Reservations and to see clear pocket attempts if they come my way.

[alannalynn]

ok.

 

I'm going to try to be up an hour before deadline. goodnight

[Celeste]

I should sleep too..

[Eldrick4221]

Eldrick, if you could vote who would you be voting right now?

I don't know. I haven't been paying as much attention.

 

Probably calder. I've been feeling better about him recently, though.