[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Nolder]

In fact. Yes I'm going to do it.

It really shouldn't take me long I don't think.

I'll be doing 25 quotes per spoiler everyone.

Feel free to look. Or not.

[Celeste]

Nolder, you have to get that I started mafia on a forum that figures out scum from the mindset of the said role they play. My strong point isn't logical evidence really. Your suspicion seems on my play style more than anything I have done.

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nolder, did you read everything in this game at least once over?

Yeah.

I'm sure I glazed over a few posts here and there but I never fell behind an entire page and didn't catch up.

 

 

I guess I don't understand why you would have thought me a good lynch candidate going into D2 if you were actually informed on the course of events prior.  How did you reconcile your initial read on me with my treatment of Zander?

How does anyone reconcile such things? They shrug and say it's WIFOM and focus on more substantial concerns.

 

 

Wait.

 

WIFOM?

 

Then why did you drop your case on Pizza before he claimed the vig shot?

 

Or try this: briefly summarize (no rereading needed) how you recall my posts irt Zander on D1 and N1.

 

A lot of it had to do with guilt believe it or not. 

I felt bad for pushing him so hard.

 

I recall you guys fighting. Why?

 

 

Guilt over what?  He might have been scum.

 

"Fighting" is an odd characterization of it.  Do you recall what conclusions I drew?

 

Over being wrong mainly. Embarrassed too. Like I said to Alanna I thought I made a post about this and it turns out I didn't.

I spent like 15-30mins typing and retyping a post to him and I thought I finally posted it but I didn't.

I mean IDK I don't want to get weird and emo about it I just didn't feel good about being wrong ok?

I said that from the getgo at start of D2 although I was combative about it.

 

No I don't.

I'd have to reread it's been 120 pages since then you know?

Do you think it's important that I do?

How does it help us resolve today when I'm not aiming to lynch you today?

It's between me and Celeste (and maybe Cass I guess? IDK)

 

 

I heaped a mountain of suss on Zander while Pral and Kaylee were the leading targets.  At a point when csarmi was getting strung up, I drew a ton of attention to that and started shouting for Zander's head.  After csarmi was lynched, I presented a hard case on him and created a scenario where Zander was never living to see N2.  These are things you shouldn't have to pay terribly much attention to notice.  Hell, Pizza brought up that I lead the kill on Zander repeatedly long after the game had slowed down.

 

I don't know how you can have me as your second lowest scum read and not notice these things.

 

I thought you switched to a town lean on Pizza because he wrecked csarmi D1?

[Nolder]

Nolder, you have to get that I started mafia on a forum that figures out scum from the mindset of the said role they play. My strong point isn't logical evidence really. Your suspicion seems on my play style more than anything I have done.

That's cool and all. I've always kind of wanted to roleplay with my role but I never felt comfortable doing it aside from maybe some hints and jokes in certain games.

But that's completely off the topic we were discussing which is whether you explained or not.

You didn't and I am going to show that post by post to everyone.

[Celeste]

 

Nolder, you have to get that I started mafia on a forum that figures out scum from the mindset of the said role they play. My strong point isn't logical evidence really. Your suspicion seems on my play style more than anything I have done.

That's cool and all. I've always kind of wanted to roleplay with my role but I never felt comfortable doing it aside from maybe some hints and jokes in certain games.

But that's completely off the topic we were discussing which is whether you explained or not.

You didn't and I am going to show that post by post to everyone.

 

I did and you refuse to see it Nolder. I'm not a great explainer and told this while I was explaining it. You refuse to see it. You refuse to actually think and ponder over my posts and just see the scummy surface of it, of that post in general. So tell me if I flip town than who will be your scum reads?

[Celeste]

I will try to study Wish the way I did Cass Celeste and Nolder.  It's not going to happen tonight.  I needed a breather and I have too much booze in me to be productive at this point.

 

I think Nolder is scummy town.  So did Lenlo and Pral, and they've both played with him a good bit.  I'm not AoL Nynaeve levels of confidence here and I admit I could be wrong, but I think he's town.  If you want to lynch him, at least try to study his past games a bit and draw an informed conclusion, because Nolder can be pretty scummy as town.  Doesn't make him town here.  But we've invested too much into this game to just yolo lynch him.

 

Celeste appears to be a player who can be scummy as town as well.  I have zero experience with her beyond TUS where I didn't pay one bit of attention to her posts.  I read her two scum games on this site and I read her town game in Rustlemania.  I think she was more proactive in pushing her reads in Rustlemania than she has been here, but she's definitely been more analytic than in TUS or Ragnarok.  (iirc she never advanced a case beyond "gut feels" in either.)  The margin between her scum and town games is something akin to Hallia, and if I'm hedging on town, the understanding you gain from ISOing other games does not match up to actually playing with someone.  I would say from my limited perspective that she is closer to her town game than her scum game, but it's only a slight lean.

 

Cass played a fantastic D1 as either alignment.  If she's a wolf, she's a damn good one.  She's been very consistent, in my opinion, and how she claims her reads evolved mostly match up to what she actually said as the game progressed.  In a 225 page game, no one is going to be 100% consistent, and her inconsistencies are very slight.  Except for her treatment of Zander at the beginning, which I really struggle to swallow in light of her actual experience with him.  When I found the Frozen DT quote in particular, my initial feeling was that I'd fully outed her, but as time passes and no one else seems to find that observation significant, I wonder if she is simply town guilty of critically forgetting some stuff that happened a few months ago regarding a player that happened to rand wolf.  I dunno.  The connection with Zander is hard for me to get over; but she's played an overall pretty townie game.  She did make a few observations that were o_O hard to swallow, such as calling out Celeste for saying "umm" and calling out Pizza for posting a helpful note-taking tool.  I have never played with Cass before or observed any of her games live.  Her game here doesn't look like any of her previous DM ones, town or scum, and there's both a half-year gap and a Cory mentor separating them.  People who have played with her more recently (Celeste, Wish) ought to state or re-state their opinions on whether the forgetfulness and really obscure call-outs jive with her town game.

 

wish-tree's D1 did not look like her scum games in Rag and TUS.  She bounced around and buddied people and didn't really do much to progress the game in those.  I felt like she was significantly more involved in relevant matters here as of half-way through D1.  But I haven't really studied her since then beyond reading her posts as I follow along.  She is the player I am least informed on by far, and my job (maybe my only job) today is to fix that.  The fact that Zander hit her hard means absolutely nothing about her alignment unless she's Godfather, and even then it might mean nothing.  Measure her by her own actions, not by how outed scum treated her.

 

Laine is town.  Don't even waste your time looking at her.  Her previous scum games were night and day different from the game she has had here. 

I like this post from you Shad, What thoughts have it lead you too for this day phase?

[Nolder]

 

Hello

QUICK INTRODUCTION FOR ANYONE WHO BOTHERED TO READ THIS.

FIRST OF ALL THE POSTS MIGHT GET JUMBLED OUT OF ORDER DUE TO OPENING MULTIPLE TABS AT ONCE.

THAT'S OK THOUGH BECAUSE THEY DON'T NEED TO BE IN ORDER ALL WE NEED IS ONE POST WHERE CLESETE EXPLAINS HER RUSTLEMANIA THING ON ME. ALSO WE MIGHT NOT DO 25 POSTS PER SPOILER DUE TO QUOTE LIMITS.

 

SECONDLY THIS IS NOT AN ISO REALLY. I AM NOT HERE TO ANALYSE ALL THESE POSTS AND GET SOMETHING OUT OF THEM.

WHEN I LOOK AT EACH POST I AM LOOKING TO ANSWER 2 QUESTIONS.

 

1) DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH ME?

2) IS IT AN EXPLANATION OF THE RUSTLEMANIA THING?

 

GOT A LOT OF POSTS TO COVER SO WE'LL NEED TO MOVE QUICK THROUGH EACH ONE. LETS GO.

 

 

 

Well, unfamiliar relatively speaking.  I think I've played with all of you at least once except Cass.

I think we played together twice if you were in raganorak.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways I am simply excited to be back

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also before I head to bed [v]Cass[/v]

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

Caught up.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With that said, bye. *poofs*

Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

this is not true all the time and you know it.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

Want to vote Celeste but hesitating hard.

Why? Is it because I randomly voted Cass? Or something else.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

For Cass Eyes Only

 

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ Pizza:  Please correct me if Im wrong but didnt you mention that lazy reads were a tell of some sort......

Mild reads which are easy to reverse. More of a tell later on when I've got enough to work with where I should have a solid read. How much is 2000 words.... google says 4 pages. Spread that over many posts. Give me 2000 words of game-related stuff that is mostly content, and I should be able to read someone. Give me fewer words, fewer posts, fewer content-related words and ideas, and my accuracy rating dips considerably. It needs to be a lucky "tell" kind of post, like with Dice in previous games. Or Shad's D1 kind of stuff. The more open the player, the better this is. The more closed the player, I can be puzzled for a long while. Cass has been a much easier read, one I feel I can make more accurately, given the type of posts she's done and the volume of them. If I can't give you a read with that much content then I'm wolfing. 

Want to vote Celeste but hesitating hard.

Why and why havent you?

I need more data on Celeste from observation. Like NotBob a couple games ago. My instinct says vote there but it's got nothing else behind it.Hello, We've played together, I'm excited to be back. That's Celeste.That's not enough to get a read off of and it feels very closed. And then there's a vote on Cass, which is null, but I don't agree with it.Celeste is Penny elsewhere and I don't remember if I've ever played with Penny, I'm almost certain I have not.Mainly that's a few posts and no read, and several people town-telling, and a generic opening and a closed player makes me want to vote there.But more time will give me a bigger picture of the players I'm null on and Celeste herself. Gun to my head I'd vote there to lynch day one, but I bet I find something more solid, either on celeste, or on someone else.Unlike the past several games, no one has made moves I saw scummy yet. That *does* happen. I had more pages to work with in other games when I began hunting.But yes, if that's what my suspect list looks like, plus like a name or two in orange, by the end of day one, I'm usually scum.Especially if the reasons are timid and not fully fleshed out, and the leans on many players feel reversible.

 

Noted this. Penny is my name not one of my many usernames.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With that said, bye. *poofs*

Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

this is not true all the time and you know it.

 

 

Do you believe, even if it is inaccurate, that this is her honest opinion? You're saying she's remembering incorrectly or is lying deliberately or neither.

 

I believe this is her honest opinion despite forgetting that simple fact.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

I have a question for all of you

 

You are on the side of a road walking down the sidewalk.

You have a gun with 1 bullet in it.

Two people are walking towards you.

The one on your left has a baseball bat the other is wearing a cowboy hat.

Who do you shoot?

Umm what does this prove Nolder? Seems like pointless WIFOM.

 

NOT AN EXPLANATION OF RUSTLEMANIA

 

 

 

 

 

 

With that said, bye. *poofs*

Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

this is not true all the time and you know it.

 

 

Do you believe, even if it is inaccurate, that this is her honest opinion? You're saying she's remembering incorrectly or is lying deliberately or neither.

 

I believe this is her honest opinion despite forgetting that simple fact.

 

I want to know what you think of me, actually. And since I trust you so far, I would also like your gut reads.

 

(What works, works. Meh.)

 

I think your slight town so far. Although I have my reservations. Cass as slight town too. Shad feels iffy to me a bit. I want to hear more from Laine.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

Worried about quote limits so here's P1

[Nolder]

 

 

Nolder, you have to get that I started mafia on a forum that figures out scum from the mindset of the said role they play. My strong point isn't logical evidence really. Your suspicion seems on my play style more than anything I have done.

That's cool and all. I've always kind of wanted to roleplay with my role but I never felt comfortable doing it aside from maybe some hints and jokes in certain games.

But that's completely off the topic we were discussing which is whether you explained or not.

You didn't and I am going to show that post by post to everyone.

 

I did and you refuse to see it Nolder. I'm not a great explainer and told this while I was explaining it. You refuse to see it. You refuse to actually think and ponder over my posts and just see the scummy surface of it, of that post in general. So tell me if I flip town than who will be your scum reads?

Feel free to quote it. You have some little time to do so before I go through all your posts.

[Nolder]

p2

 

quote limits are so obnoxious

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With that said, bye. *poofs*

Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

this is not true all the time and you know it.

 

 

Do you believe, even if it is inaccurate, that this is her honest opinion? You're saying she's remembering incorrectly or is lying deliberately or neither.

 

I believe this is her honest opinion despite forgetting that simple fact.

 

I want to know what you think of me, actually. And since I trust you so far, I would also like your gut reads.

(What works, works. Meh.)

 

I think your slight town so far. Although I have my reservations. Cass as slight town too. Shad feels iffy to me a bit. I want to hear more from Laine.

 

I actually have nothing on Shad so far. He hasn't appeared yet to talk to me, but what Pizza/Lenlo said about his claiming he has meta on other people was interesting to me. I'd be curious to know what meta he actually has.

Talk to me about Shad. Gut read?

 

Yeah, from reading his posts once I joined. They seem a bit forced. What reads do you have?

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

I unvoted because it was a joke vote. Is it really that scummy to you guys? A joke vote is simply for entertainment and reaction testing.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

The timing was because I would have forgotten that I joke vote her which happens sometimes XD

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

Imo I don't really pay attention to timing much because I forget things sometimes.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

Lenny were we mafia with Lenlo before or am I thinking of someone else?

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

For one thing, Zander

I'm Lenny..

 

Secondly

 

Contradictions are not inherently scummy. I think you're trying too hard to pull at straws, but that in itself isn't scummy.

 

I clarified why I tone read and hate it. It works, so I do it. I'd much rather prefer to use my brain, but that often leads to WIFOM. Also, I'd like for a chance to use my brain, thank you very much. Going to reread the Shad bit, because I am not convinced atm.

 

I still want to town read you, but this kind of nitpicking/TMI makes me a little reluctant. I admit that there's some confirmation bias, because I have a tendency to town-read people who call me town. 

 

 

Sorry my dear about the name mix up!!!

 

 

 

Thats the look on my face when I read this post....

 

Contradictions arent scummy??!!!  My very first game, Cory got me a mentor ALOT was his name....and the first piece of advice to me was....look for contradictions they more often then not lead to Scum....its worked very well for my thus far!!!!

 

And elaborate on your grasping at straws/nitpicking and most important the TMI comments there Penny because imo they have 0 merit and are a poor look from you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With that said, bye. *poofs*

Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

this is not true all the time and you know it.

 

 

Do you believe, even if it is inaccurate, that this is her honest opinion? You're saying she's remembering incorrectly or is lying deliberately or neither.

 

I believe this is her honest opinion despite forgetting that simple fact.

 

I want to know what you think of me, actually. And since I trust you so far, I would also like your gut reads.

(What works, works. Meh.)

 

I think your slight town so far. Although I have my reservations. Cass as slight town too. Shad feels iffy to me a bit. I want to hear more from Laine.

 

I actually have nothing on Shad so far. He hasn't appeared yet to talk to me, but what Pizza/Lenlo said about his claiming he has meta on other people was interesting to me. I'd be curious to know what meta he actually has.

Talk to me about Shad. Gut read?

 

Yeah, from reading his posts once I joined. They seem a bit forced. What reads do you have?

 

I'm liking Cass, you, Pizza, maybe Lainey.

Reservations on calling Shad town or scum until he comes back to defend himself.

Lenlo and Kaylee are slightly towny for now.

Other people need to stop ignoring me and talk to me.

 

 

Concerning reads...WHY???

 

I can go back and pull out single posts in isolation, if it tickles your fancy.

 

 

 

Yes it most certainly would!!!!

 

We are not the same person. Just because we hydra'd together doesn't mean anything :|

 

Again im sorry and Ill try to not mix you ladies up again (or at least not very often)

 

 

lololololololol

 

Did you mean Lenny is not town earlier?

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

[Shad_]

Shad why do you always backtrack with Nolder?

I first played with Nolder in Age of Legends. He was scum, and I was town. I read him town all game iirc. He gave intelligent answers to all of my questions and seemed to be amicably attempting to solve the game. He was cooperative.  He got confused sometimes but you could always guide him back on track.  He happened to be on the wrong side of history on a lot of lynches.

 

My next game with Nolder was Nightmare Before Christmas.  We were both town.  He fought with people a lot.  He focused on reasons I found strange for his top scum reads, and he was highly reluctant to let go.  His top two scum were the two people I felt were the most obvious towns in the game.  (One of them was, the other turned out to be 3p.)  Any time he was questioned, he got excessively defensive and even accused players he was explicitly town reading of "intentionally" misrepping him and distorting the situation.  He refused to answer people's questions when he felt slighted.  He forgot things that I didn't think anyone should realistically forget.  (Zander screamed for Tab's head half of D1, hounding everyone to vote her, but her lynch didn't go through.  Zander got NK'd, and Nolder's first post D2 was "Didn't see that coming.  Was there anyone besides myself Xander felt strong about being scum?")  I wanted to lynch him all game, but his behavior was so strikingly different from Age of Legends that I held off, and he lived to see end game.

 

My third game with Nolder was World's End.  We were scum together.  I didn't pay one lick of attention to what he was posting, but from my vague memory and recent ISO it comes off very similar to AoL.

 

In short; this looks more similar to his town game.

 

On the other hand: I'm basing all of this on only a 3 game sample for a guy that has played 100+ games, and as his scum mate two weeks ago I gave him some advice on the sort of behavior that would fool me personally.  This latter bit is probably silly--I don't think Nolder is going to switch up his scum game all of a sudden just to fool me.  But I can't help feeling nervous about it anyway, and I don't know that he isn't capable of his current game as scum just because he didn't do it in my two examples, and I scum read him as v/v for pretty good reasons that are hard to just block out of my mind when I see them again.  And his reasons for not sharing information in NBC were because he felt everyone was out to get him, not because he felt people wouldn't care.  That part is different and throwing me off.

 

So I'm waffling hard and my gut screams scum but my head says he's probably town.

[Shad_]

I like this post from you Shad, What thoughts have it lead you too for this day phase?

Could you reword that? I don't really understand the question.

[Nolder]

p3
short one but its the end of page 1 of posts
1/9 of the way done lol

 

 

 

 

 

For one thing, Zander
I'm Lenny..
 
Secondly
 Contradictions are not inherently scummy. I think you're trying too hard to pull at straws, but that in itself isn't scummy.
 I clarified why I tone read and hate it. It works, so I do it. I'd much rather prefer to use my brain, but that often leads to WIFOM. Also, I'd like for a chance to use my brain, thank you very much. Going to reread the Shad bit, because I am not convinced atm.
 I still want to town read you, but this kind of nitpicking/TMI makes me a little reluctant. I admit that there's some confirmation bias, because I have a tendency to town-read people who call me town. 

 
 
Sorry my dear about the name mix up!!!
 
 
 
Thats the look on my face when I read this post....
 
Contradictions arent scummy??!!!  My very first game, Cory got me a mentor ALOT was his name....and the first piece of advice to me was....look for contradictions they more often then not lead to Scum....its worked very well for my thus far!!!!
 
And elaborate on your grasping at straws/nitpicking and most important the TMI comments there Penny because imo they have 0 merit and are a poor look from you.
 
 
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With that said, bye. *poofs*
Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

this is not true all the time and you know it.

 

 
Do you believe, even if it is inaccurate, that this is her honest opinion? You're saying she's remembering incorrectly or is lying deliberately or neither.

 

I believe this is her honest opinion despite forgetting that simple fact.

 

I want to know what you think of me, actually. And since I trust you so far, I would also like your gut reads.
(What works, works. Meh.)

 

I think your slight town so far. Although I have my reservations. Cass as slight town too. Shad feels iffy to me a bit. I want to hear more from Laine.

 

I actually have nothing on Shad so far. He hasn't appeared yet to talk to me, but what Pizza/Lenlo said about his claiming he has meta on other people was interesting to me. I'd be curious to know what meta he actually has.
Talk to me about Shad. Gut read?

 

Yeah, from reading his posts once I joined. They seem a bit forced. What reads do you have?

 

I'm liking Cass, you, Pizza, maybe Lainey.
Reservations on calling Shad town or scum until he comes back to defend himself.
Lenlo and Kaylee are slightly towny for now.
Other people need to stop ignoring me and talk to me.

 

 
Concerning reads...WHY???

 

I can go back and pull out single posts in isolation, if it tickles your fancy.

 

 
 
Yes it most certainly would!!!!
 

We are not the same person. Just because we hydra'd together doesn't mean anything :|

 
Again im sorry and Ill try to not mix you ladies up again (or at least not very often)
 
 
lololololololol

 

Did you mean Lenny is not town earlier?

 

 

 

 
 
Well as of now youre both in my top Scum reads so take from that what you will.....
Well your wrong first of all because your not telling me the reasons WHY first of all. I also want to know who you think Wish is? Lenny or Penny?

 NOTHING TO DO WITH ME DONT KNOW WTF HAPPENED TO THESE QUOTES...

 

=_= Aye aye this is ridiculous since your basing it off of the timing of taking off a joke vote? That is super poor reasoning Zander imo.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME
 

 

 

=_= Aye aye this is ridiculous since your basing it off of the timing of taking off a joke vote? That is super poor reasoning Zander imo.

 
 
About as ridiculous as you thinking just because I mix up your very similar RL's names I dont know who Im talking about....???!!!
 
Also im feeling there is some poss w/w equity between you both atp.  I mean its not like youve done anything up to this point that would lead me to believe that you are Town.  Also it doesnt hurt Pizza whose prolly my best Town read thus far feels the same.
 
fwiw I feel worse about Lenny (WIsh) then you atp.

 

I was just curious about that one little thing ok. I'm not a wolf and I know my role. This is very different from my last two DM games where I was mafia too. If you want to look for a wolfy post from me than see the difference between Raganorak and here.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME
 

If it helps you guys I'm not really an early game player so all I have are my gut reads and observations until a flip happens.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME
 

 

 

 

 

=_= Aye aye this is ridiculous since your basing it off of the timing of taking off a joke vote? That is super poor reasoning Zander imo.

 
 
About as ridiculous as you thinking just because I mix up your very similar RL's names I dont know who Im talking about....???!!!
 
Also im feeling there is some poss w/w equity between you both atp.  I mean its not like youve done anything up to this point that would lead me to believe that you are Town.  Also it doesnt hurt Pizza whose prolly my best Town read thus far feels the same.
 
fwiw I feel worse about Lenny (WIsh) then you atp.

 

I was just curious about that one little thing ok. I'm not a wolf and I know my role. This is very different from my last two DM games where I was mafia too. If you want to look for a wolfy post from me than see the difference between Raganorak and here.

 

 
 
I dont go back and reread the games Ive played in let alone ones i didnt...lololololol.
So tell me this then...what do you feel about Lenny?  You feel like maybe shes pocketing you?  And not even including to the separate points and reasons lve listed for my reads of you both, you gotta admit your guys interactions are awkward to say the least.

 

I already said she is slight town with the reservations I hold. I know you guys find this whole interplay thing we do weird but it's because we read and work with each other really well. It was weird how Zander is slightly pushing Lenny for defending me. It's completely within her town range too. If you won't listen to me than listen to Cass who knows we can read each other well.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

[Celeste]

 

Shad why do you always backtrack with Nolder?

 

I first played with Nolder in Age of Legends. He was scum, and I was town. I read him town all game iirc. He gave intelligent answers to all of my questions and seemed to be amicably attempting to solve the game. He was cooperative.  He got confused sometimes but you could always guide him back on track.  He happened to be on the wrong side of history on a lot of lynches.

 

My next game with Nolder was Nightmare Before Christmas.  We were both town.  He fought with people a lot.  He focused on reasons I found strange for his top scum reads, and he was highly reluctant to let go.  His top two scum were the two people I felt were the most obvious towns in the game.  (One of them was, the other turned out to be 3p.)  Any time he was questioned, he got excessively defensive and even accused players he was explicitly town reading of "intentionally" misrepping him and distorting the situation.  He refused to answer people's questions when he felt slighted.  He forgot things that I didn't think anyone should realistically forget.  (Zander screamed for Tab's head half of D1, hounding everyone to vote her, but her lynch didn't go through.  Zander got NK'd, and Nolder's first post D2 was "Didn't see that coming.  Was there anyone besides myself Xander felt strong about being scum?")  I wanted to lynch him all game, but his behavior was so strikingly different from Age of Legends that I held off, and he lived to see end game.

 

My third game with Nolder was World's End.  We were scum together.  I didn't pay one lick of attention to what he was posting, but from my vague memory and recent ISO it comes off very similar to AoL.

 

In short; this looks more similar to his town game.

 

On the other hand: I'm basing all of this on only a 3 game sample for a guy that has played 100+ games, and as his scum mate two weeks ago I gave him some advice on the sort of behavior that would fool me personally.  This latter bit is probably silly--I don't think Nolder is going to switch up his scum game all of a sudden just to fool me.  But I can't help feeling nervous about it anyway, and I don't know that he isn't capable of his current game as scum just because he didn't do it in my two examples, and I scum read him as v/v for pretty good reasons that are hard to just block out of my mind when I see them again.  And his reasons for not sharing information in NBC were because he felt everyone was out to get him, not because he felt people wouldn't care.  That part is different and throwing me off.

 

So I'm waffling hard and my gut screams scum but my head says he's probably town.

Maybe you should trust your gut some more if you don't trust it all that often.

[Celeste]

 

I like this post from you Shad, What thoughts have it lead you too for this day phase?

Could you reword that? I don't really understand the question.

What are your reads this day phase based on your findings in that post?

[Shad_]

Maybe you should trust your gut some more if you don't trust it all that often.

Not my approach to life in general.

[Celeste]

 

Maybe you should trust your gut some more if you don't trust it all that often.

Not my approach to life in general.

What if it makes a world of a difference this game?

[Shad_]

 

 

I like this post from you Shad, What thoughts have it lead you too for this day phase?

Could you reword that? I don't really understand the question.

 

What are your reads this day phase based on your findings in that post?

 

I've never had you below a town lean, I just don't see where anything atp can make that stronger than a lean.

 

I still think Nolder will flip town. It's a real struggle to not say "to hell with it, lynch him" and I never want to lose for failing to hang the scummiest player in the game.

 

I am not properly informed on wish yet.

 

Cass is... really hard. I want to hear other people's opinions, specifically on the extent to which she will call out really weird and obscure things as town. Preferably with examples.

[Nolder]

p4 just gonna split these what feels natural so they're going to all be different lengths

 

 

 

 

 

If it helps you guys I'm not really an early game player so all I have are my gut reads and observations until a flip happens.

 

 

Ok ive no problem with that Penny.

 

But your game is missing one half of the 2 most important parts of Towning:

 

1- TOWN TELL SO PEOPLE KNOW YOURE TOWN- Not seeing it at all from you.

2- LUNCH THE WOLVES- Also not seeing that from you as well though I take the early game mention into consideration as I know others feel the same way.  D1 not always my best reads day as well but without the first its hard to accept not doing the second imo.

 

Well than excuse you for not seeing that I don't have the average tells of a townie because y'all are too focused on average tells. I'm still looking and not certain with reads except for the one's on Cass and Wish. The whole fact that y'all are pushing into a defensive corner doesn't help because it blocks the scum hunting. If you guys are so adamant that I'm not a townie than congrats you have your first mislynch. I'm done defending this little issue with the timing of my unvote.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it helps you guys I'm not really an early game player so all I have are my gut reads and observations until a flip happens.

 

Ok ive no problem with that Penny.

 

But your game is missing one half of the 2 most important parts of Towning:

 

1- TOWN TELL SO PEOPLE KNOW YOURE TOWN- Not seeing it at all from you.

2- LUNCH THE WOLVES- Also not seeing that from you as well though I take the early game mention into consideration as I know others feel the same way. D1 not always my best reads day as well but without the first its hard to accept not doing the second imo.

 

Well than excuse you for not seeing that I don't have the average tells of a townie because y'all are too focused on average tells. I'm still looking and not certain with reads except for the one's on Cass and Wish. The whole fact that y'all are pushing into a defensive corner doesn't help because it blocks the scum hunting. If you guys are so adamant that I'm not a townie than congrats you have your first mislynch. I'm done defending this little issue with the timing of my unvote.

 

Bold: Hold on, first off nobody is voting you so not likely a mislynch if you're town. We've mentioned it felt off. For me it isn't just the timing it's her defense of you as well which I said could be just strange.

 

No reason to jump to saying you'll be mislynched. If you're town help us see it.

 

That looks like it would be the turn out if you have seen the events that have taken place.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

Mmm called it.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

[v]Shad[/v] I don't like the vibes i'm getting from him. His tone is scummy to me as well.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME BUT WTF IS THIS A DISTANCING VOTE? TONE IS SCUMMY IS THAT EVEN A REAL REASON?

 

 

 

Celeste/Penny- Hated the timing of unvote at some pressure when confronted about it.  Find her interaction with my top scum read very awkward.  Think shes overacting and defensive and had an AtE post with her reaction to being mislynched with 0 votes on her....

1. It's because I actually know her meta and personality outside of DM so I can figure it out better than you.

2. I'm pretty pissed atm over the close minded thoughts you and others seem to be having

3. I don't AtE

4. If you haven't noticed the early suspicion always gets bandwagoned at the end of almost every D1.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

[v]Shad[/v] I don't like the vibes i'm getting from him. His tone is scummy to me as well.

Go on.

 

I'm on p17 if you explained later.

 

bump, I know you've been around a while since I asked

 

It's simply that I don't like your tone in the first few pages of D1 coupled with the fact that you give me bad vibes.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[v]Shad[/v] I don't like the vibes i'm getting from him. His tone is scummy to me as well.

Go on.

 

I'm on p17 if you explained later.

 

bump, I know you've been around a while since I asked

 

It's simply that I don't like your tone in the first few pages of D1 coupled with the fact that you give me bad vibes.

 

You're going to have to help me a bit. I like winning, and I'm town, and when I'm town I tend to get my way more often than not, for better or worse, so it's pretty important that I figure you out.  Give me examples.  Point to specifics that you did not like.  Help me understand whether your suspicions are sincere or just a lazy out.

 

I don't really know how to explain my gut reads very well. I just know what I have pointed out.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

I have a question for all of you

 

You are on the side of a road walking down the sidewalk.

You have a gun with 1 bullet in it.

Two people are walking towards you.

The one on your left has a baseball bat the other is wearing a cowboy hat.

Who do you shoot?

Umm what does this prove Nolder? Seems like pointless WIFOM.

 

 

Uhhh, Penny? Your Tone has changed :P

 

Last game Penny asked random entry question thing like this herself when Town.

 

I have no problem her questioning Nolder/stating it seems like WIFOM.

 

The Umm is unnecessary to the question and a change in style/tone from last game.

 

I forgot about the question at first and don't really understand why it is being asked. I read the other answers first but it just seems like WIFOM.

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

 

 

Also Nolders absence is long since his last post.

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

 

 

[Celeste]

*sigh* I don't see why you are even quoting things if it says NOTHING TO DO WITH ME in all quotes. Actually have substance to your push of me or just forget because it isn't helping your case.

[Shad_]

 

 

Maybe you should trust your gut some more if you don't trust it all that often.

Not my approach to life in general.

What if it makes a world of a difference this game?

 

 

A head read is a developed gut read.

 

Something pings you as scummy or towny.  You attempt to isolate what.  Sometimes you just can't put a finger on it and it remains forever a gut read, and it can still be highly accurate.  (See: every read I've ever made on Dice save the time I misread him.)

 

But when you can isolate it, then you can ask yourself why it pings you, and you can measure that against how you think a player thinks, and what ought to intuitively make sense for that player, and how that player has responded in the past.  It's more informed.  It's not guaranteed to be right, but it's more accurate if you are thorough.  I feel I have a really solid analytic process, though it does get bogged down when there is simply too much information to process.  It's why i have a really high success rate at catching scum early but tend to flop if I live to see late game.  But I still trust it more than a gut read, when I can complete the process, and I don't feel like the loose ends with Nolder are many.  With Cass, I'm at overload, and it's why I have low confidence in my scum read and really just want someone else to make the call.  :\

[Nolder]

p5 I think the next part is where she mentions Rustlemania for the first time

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a question for all of you

 

You are on the side of a road walking down the sidewalk.

You have a gun with 1 bullet in it.

Two people are walking towards you.

The one on your left has a baseball bat the other is wearing a cowboy hat.

Who do you shoot?

Umm what does this prove Nolder? Seems like pointless WIFOM.

 

Well... There's one post I can't read into.

XD

 

 

 

 

 

 

also, can someone explain to me what the entire note taking thing was about anyway? I don't see how that generated reads at all, if it did.

 

Wasn't meant to, it was me sharing a website that I find useful for generating a list of numbers which I use when keeping track of my reads.

 

Not every post is explicitly for finding scum. Most of them should be.

 

I actually disagree, somewhat. I think you can read a lot into one post, even about things that are unrelated.

Hmm... Can you give me a rundown of Lenlo's meta? Don't recall.

And Lenlo, I want you to describe Pizza's meta to me as well. Ty!

 

I refuse. Why? Because I feel like being difficult. Actual reason? I cant. He just feels the same as previous games. Im not the kind of player who can put that into words.

 

 

@Lenbot, I'm tone reading you too guarded :P. Please elaborate your thoughts more/get actual opinions of posts on the record if you haven't already. Go out on a limb. 

I'm ok with you Town reading me to some extent here because Snakes reads. I can follow your logic wrt Penny and somewhat agree. BUT I feel like if you're scum you would have to make these two particular reads or be called out.

 

I want to see you bring something else to the table and actually give an opinion. You weren't shy giving reads about players you didn't know in the DT, why are you holding yourself back here?

 

1. What do you disagree with?

2. Did you get any reads/leans out of any of this whole situation?

 

@Lenlo

Which games? What alignment?

 

 

Lenlo's meta I am still working on. I don't even think I had a specific reason for finding him scum when I did in that game he was actually scum in, I just got my attention put there probably by Zander his wolf-mate and then agreed it wasn't strikingly townie.

 

Sometimes wolves will help you find other wolves. For whatever purpose, it's still a dead wolf when you lynch that guy.

 

His town game I hope I'm getting a better feel of after last game, but he wasn't strictly a townie in the game prior and I had very conflicted reads on him and even said "serial killer" was a likely alignment for his third party survivor with killing power.... role... thing.

 

So basically I need to see more Lenlo. Last game gave me some, but he was under the gun for being weird for most of D1, and the game moved too fast for him to generate much content after that.

 

So I don't have much "normal" Lenlo meta.

 

How was Lenlo's content in the scum game when it got busy? Same problem?

 

@Kaylee roping you in here - is content level any sort of tell for Lenlo?

 

 

If a wolf is particularly bussy (as I sometimes am in the mid-game, or at least D2 onward) then they have that perfect info of who is a wolf.

 

Then they'll make cases on wolves and say why they're scummy.

 

It's a great help. It's like when you're trying to infiltrate a terrorist cell and they tell you all about a rival terrorist cell that they know about because they're also a terrorist.

 

Can't discount the excellent work wolves do in destroying other wolves. Especially if they're bussing. Man, that's a great help.

 

I absolutely cannot tell what the motivation is behind this and that feels deliberate. No idea if it's alignment indicative with Pizza having only seen him Scum, but these are the sort of posts that gave me scum feels on him last game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With that said, bye. *poofs*

Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

this is not true all the time and you know it.

 

 

Do you believe, even if it is inaccurate, that this is her honest opinion? You're saying she's remembering incorrectly or is lying deliberately or neither.

 

I believe this is her honest opinion despite forgetting that simple fact.

 

I want to know what you think of me, actually. And since I trust you so far, I would also like your gut reads.

(What works, works. Meh.)

 

 

I think your slight town so far. Although I have my reservations. Cass as slight town too. Shad feels iffy to me a bit. I want to hear more from Laine.

 

 

Penn

1. Why does Shad feel iffy?

2. Why Laine/what are you waiting for?

 

1. I stated it later in thread.

2. I was scum once with Laine in TUS and feel like I can read her well.

 

ONCE AGAIN POSTS GOT MESSED UP BUT IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY NONE OF THEM HAVE TO DO WITH ME OR RUSTLEMANIA

 

 

Anyways I'm back and can do some posts before work.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wish, what are your thoughts on Celeste's reactions to getting sussed for the unvote?

just posted it :P

 

I read your mind!

 

 

If Celeste turns out to be scum, all eyes will be on you.  How comfortable are you with your read of her?

 

She just watched me in a game that I was scum in. It ended badly..

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[v]Shad[/v] I don't like the vibes i'm getting from him. His tone is scummy to me as well.

Celeste how confident are you in this vote/read?

Do you think Shad should be our lynch for today?

 

 

Semi confident as usual. It's just my strongest lead atm and there could be a chance that I'm wrong. Nolder what is your read on me/wish?

 

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

 

 

 

 

 

@cass I attempt I lost it yesterday but it's because I want someone to at least recognize that I'm different from my two games on this site that I randed scum. I always get instant scum read when I'm playing town usually. It just doesn't help that people try and pressure me because I do lose my cool. Take that as you wish.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

 

 

 

[Shad_]

The cumulative effect of a 228 page game is that the grand total of information makes me waffle a lot on nearly everybody.  I had Nolder as my strongest town read by the end of D1.  Now I'm all wishywash though I keep resolving town.  I'm not sure that anything has fundamentally changed on his end; I'm just overwhelmed.

[Shad_]

Nolder, I recognize you're occupied with other things atm.  Please address my last post to you at some point tonight.

[Nolder]

*sigh* I don't see why you are even quoting things if it says NOTHING TO DO WITH ME in all quotes. Actually have substance to your push of me or just forget because it isn't helping your case.

I told you already.

 

We are going through every single one of your posts to find this explanation you said exists.

 

It's not there and I know it so I'm going to prove it one post at a time.

[Shad_]

I'm going to bed.