[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Askthepizzaguy]

#Pizzanevergettinglynchedthisgame

 

#Dealwithit

[alannalynn]

YOLO reads last mafia in Celeste/Pral/Lenlo

 

Pizza never wolf. Shad probably never wolf. Wish likely not wolf. Kaylee, Cass probably not. Nolder?

[Askthepizzaguy]

#LolNolder

[alannalynn]

Penny. If Pizza is wolf, he just tried to lynch both of his teammates d1.

[alannalynn]

Penny. If Pizza is wolf, he just tried to lynch both of his teammates d1.

Pizza could literally admit to being a wolf right now and I wouldn't lynch him.

[alannalynn]

AND he solves himself N2

[Askthepizzaguy]

YOLO reads last mafia in Celeste/Pral/Lenlo

 

Pizza never wolf. Shad probably never wolf. Wish likely not wolf. Kaylee, Cass probably not. Nolder?

 

Lenlo is who I would ISO next.

 

I am uncomfortable with his actions D1.

 

But, he has a lot of positives in his corner which are a good look. Objective is to clear him if possible.

[Celeste]

Feel free.

i was just stating that. The rest of my statement was me not knowing how it applies here but just saying it's odd. Laine I need to sleep.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Penny. If Pizza is wolf, he just tried to lynch both of his teammates d1.

Pizza could literally admit to being a wolf right now and I wouldn't lynch him.

 

 

I'm a wolf.

 

I ate Turin.

 

He was delicious.

[Shad_]

[Shad_]

I'm going to bed.

[Shad_]

I like this village.

[alannalynn]

 

 

Penny. If Pizza is wolf, he just tried to lynch both of his teammates d1.

Pizza could literally admit to being a wolf right now and I wouldn't lynch him.

 

 

I'm a wolf.

 

I ate Turin.

 

He was delicious.

 

LOL [v]Pizza[/v]

 

[unvote]

[Askthepizzaguy]

D'oh!

 

How'd you know it was me?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I sincerely hope a seer didn't waste time peeking me or Shad last night.

 

If you did that, you deserve that wasted peek.

[Celeste]

Oh gosh I remember the last game I lost it in as town now. Yeah, I will link it once I'm on a laptop.

[alannalynn]

okok I'm gonna go catch up now

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am literally doing another full re-read with only Shad and Turin on ignore.

 

What is wrong with me?

[alannalynn]

WTL Lenlo Pral Celeste

 

That's who I'm looking at today after catching up.

 

Leaving the others alone for now.

 

Taking too long to catch up because of distractions

[Askthepizzaguy]

"WTL" Lenlo, Pral....

 

Thinking on Celeste. I think she was just the sitting duck townie last round a lot. But I'll certainly consider it.

 

Pral I actually like and think he could be a townie. But it is clear that he must be in the POE regardless. Need a great D2 from him.

 

I'll mostly be reading, so hopefully he and everyone else can get current.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I would like everyone (including my villagers, because I want your input), regardless of their confidence in their reads, and regardless of their villager list, to do a thought experiment for me. This can be done at your leisure, when you're burned out from data mining D1.

 

If you needed to get yourself town-read yesterday, and were Zander and Csarmi's partner, what is your battle strategy?

 

Just be generic. Walk me through your process as scum. Put yourself in that person's shoes.

 

You're the Godfather or the Roleblocker, someone you really don't want to lose day one or pretty much ever. Especially now.

 

How would you have behaved yesterday?

 

Not how did you behave. Talking hypothetically.

[Pralaya]

 

 

 

 

 

 

All right. Got a good handle on you now, Cass.

 

My initial reaction to you made me recalibrate the scum scope a lot until I found a you that I could understand. Fortunately I am a brand of that kind of villager sometimes so it's not completely foreign, or you'd sound all kinds of forced. Hah.

 

I don't understand what you mean by 'recalibrate the scum scope' but, well, read my wolf games. That's me forced.

 

Read my previous Town games. That's me more leashed.

 

If you're INFP like was said in chat, understand my personality as the extraverted version. I'm the same type as Zander. Campaigner/Champion/Possibility hunter. I'm also less experienced and really tired. I'm just getting in early because excitement and Cory threatened I need to make 10-15 posts each RL day and excitement.

 

You're pretty spot-on with the manic observation, and yep, I'll come down and hopefully be easier to understand.

 

  

Re-read complete, and my villager leans are thusly

 

We're not giving points for everything this time, that leads to runaway (Lenlo) scumreads which are sucky and don't reverse until it's problem. Instead posts which are likely town but more easily faked as scum are 0 with the word town next to it.

 

Askthepizzaguy (again!)

Cassy +5 initial wtf reaction has been clarified a lot. Yeah blue.

Shad +3 not outside his scum game but much improvement

Laine +2 Not confident but in my top 3

Zander Null points, but +1 overall (Not outside his scum range but I get good vibes)

Csarmi Null points, but +1 good feels

Turin Null points, but +1 good feels

Kaylee Null

Lenlo Null

Celeste Null

 

Wish True Null

Pralaya True Null

Nolder True Null

 

Manic Cass is townic Cass. Agree with her self-assessment, Pizza's approach, and just about ready to clear Cass there.

 

Never played with Pizza before but he lookw to be trying to solve the game and his approach is +EV. Green, I guess?

 

Think I'm at Shad and Cass as villagers, Pizza and Leno as possible villagers.

 

 

I sound genuine/not stressed/manic so I am Town?

 

Csarmi, I am Town, but you are one who has told me several times you've correctly read me Scum early in other games when others are clearing me for relaxed and happy tone. I don't buy it here.

 

1. What's different about this game that would make you believe I'm town on manic/unstressed tone?

 

Csarmi, I am Town, but you are one who has told me several times you've correctly read me Scum early in other games when others are clearing me for relaxed and happy tone - That "Ï am town". Would a townie say that in this context? An annoyed townie would be correcting him, questioning him. Not trying to express that he/she is town out of place.

 

Regardless of Cass's alignment, the "I am town" bit makes sense in context imo.  I can explain why, but I need to know where your head is at here.  What leads you to say that Cass is not correcting and questioning Csarmi in this instance?

 

If you are town, you would typically not declare you are and would sub-consciously know you are town and proceed in that aspect. The whole quote of Cass, like I said, looked forced. And, that is why it looks odd out there. The expected response would have been "Csarmi, you are the on who told me blah blah blah but in this game you are doing blah blah blah"

[Pralaya]

Honestly I'm really tempted to say Zander totally spewed Cass town by continually characterizing her suspicions of him as paranoia.  He wasn't just trying to fake a case/defense.  He was trying to make her feel stupid for doubting him.

Where are you seeing that? I am getting a complete opposite tone there. Like distancing

 

For example,

 

How serious, if at all are you with the lolololololol part??? And also I always need to tell Cory i love him ldo!!!!! lollololololol

 

Thanks for the Meta info, I look forward to hearing others weigh in on it!!!  and I cant wait to see #FULLCASS....i picture something like this....

 

 

 

 

 

It seems like you've already come in with the preconceived notion of reading me scummy and that's not a good look my dear...Like each of my interactions youve felt off about,  I mean I get that people Ive never played with before may sense that but its just that all youre using is Forced and Awkward....and like 6 pages in, that seems very weird, but then I'm also weighing in the ENFP so Im kinda meh with this, but something Im noticing fwiw.

 

Why would you think my Meta talk is forced or unnecessary, especially sense theres a bunch of players I havent played with much or at all and the fact that everyone who has played with me will tell you IM EXACTLY a Meta reliant player???!!!!

 

 

Well I want to make sure we figure each other out because so far it feels a little off putting to me my dear!!!!

I don't see it as "shaming". It looks like the typical banter where you don't want to be associated together while NOT going hard to try and lynch her.

[alannalynn]

#2774 Wish: Okay, Nolder next. What do you think about my thoughts about Lenny/Penny - csarmi mixup?

I think it's odd. Linking you to mafia, sure. But sometimes mafia do weird things. I think I remember in Star Wars (?) there was a discussion on Yates naming two of his teammates together  at the same time in the thread and treating them the same. And the argument was "he wouldn't do that, that's linking them together, there's no way the other is mafia" or something of the sort. (Pretty sure that's not exactly what went down, but whatever). Basically my point is that that doesn't prove anything. Same with Csarmi being nice to both Kaylee and Cass; I actually noticed that, that he treated them both similarly, but that doesn't really tell me much about their alignments unless I can go back and see that pattern of behavior as mafia!Csarmi in other games. At THAT point, I might take it as evidence.

For now I'm not really going to bother about Cass. I think that if we can't find mafia in Pral, Celeste, Lenlo we should take a look at her again definitely. But for now, those three are where I want the pressure.

 

I understand that you read Celeste well and that you _know_ she's town, but that doesn't translate to the rest of us, unfortunately, so she will be a lynch candidate today. Right now she needs to beat Pral and Lenlo to survive another day.

 

 

 

 

 

4. Lenlo

 

 

 

Csarmi (7) Cass Wish Kaylee Alanna Lenlo Zander Pizza

 

*note: I changed Kaylee to a light green to reflect doubt

Links to other analyses: Cass, Wish, Kaylee, Alanna

 

Lenlo on Csarmi:

First mention is in a reads list "Grey/light red, do something. Might vote you for the heck of it."

 

Reaction to his claim "Why... Why are we claiming."

 

More doubts on the claim "Full claim or dont claim at all. Character claims mean nothing."

 

This one is in response to Wish saying Csarmi is getting lynched: "Is he now? And when was this decided?" The reaction here is kind of weird. At this point Cass and Pizza are on the Csarmi train (I think I have that right) and Wish is going back and looking at Kaylee evidence while Pizza is switching things over to Csarmi pretty quickly.

 

Doesn't think Csarmi is lying about his character, and if he is "there's no way he lives through the game. I don't think he's lying"

 

I find it odd that Lenlo neither mentions nor jumps on the Kaylee case, nor the Csarmi case. He does mediate a little with the Pizza/Zander fight but that's all I see so far. He questions why Cass isn't around.

 

Then this: 

"Pizza/Zander fight is stupid. Honestly, the only people who I /want/ to lynch today are Celeste and the missing wonder brothers, Pral and Csarmi. Everyone else has been pretty good or I think will be figured out easier later.

Really ill lynch anyone that isnt Pizza, Zander, Nolder, Shad, Turin."

Throws shade at Zander for his habit of bussing teammates (that would be Pizza in this case). (Note: Zander/Pizza fight distraction?)

 

This: "For me its Csarmi/Zander today, leaning Csarmi." and a VOTE

 

He is quick to get in on the town core talk with Pizza Shad Nolder, still thinks Zander is town though.

 

Very much wants to lynch Celeste

 

But he is sticking around for the Csarmi lynch; wolves don't want to wait around for a flip of their teammate. And I don't see him trying to gain traction elsewhere. He didn't add flames to the Pizza/Zander fight.

 

Csarmi on Lenlo:

"Also Len/Laine are literally never w/w there."

"Think I'm at Shad and Cass as villagers, Pizza and Leno as possible villagers."

"Vanilla Town And yea Len we have been through this before. I shall humour you." (expanding on his claim)

"Dont lynch Shad, Cass and Len ever. I believe Turin."

"Cass i am totally sure of. Len/Shad very close."

"Leno I just love you man."

 

Anddd that's it

 

Conclusion: Pending.

I can see this both ways right now. And I already have a strong read so I'll explain the "Lenlo is mafia" side.

 

The first mention in his reads list could be he's frustrated with a teammate and has to suspect him because he's not being active enough on thread. The other posts about Csarmi claiming: frustration/confusion again.

 

Then the post where he said "Is he now? And when was this decided?" shows Lenlo is completely out of the loop. He hasn't paid attention to the Kaylee case, didn't get involved with Pizza's case on Csarmi, isn't involved in the thread with like under 20 hours until deadline. He doesn't know what's going on, basically.

 

In talks about Csarmi's character, he believes him and says that if he's lying, it'll be taken care of basically. Easy way to add support to a character claim and give it credit, even though we all know mafia are generally given fake claims. (I also know nothing about WoW so yeah.. I'm here to play mafia lol)

 

He still shows interest in voting Celeste, mentioning lynching her twice instead of Csarmi while his train is gaining traction, but doesn't make any move to switch the trains over (granted, this is more of a townie move, he's looking elsewhere).

 

On the other side of the road, Csarmi is quick to read Lenlo and call him town and tells us never to lynch him. This could be for a scum mate or for town.

 

If we're going with Lenlo being town though, this could make sense all the same. Lenlo would still be frustrated with Csarmi for not being in the game (Nolderesque?) and frustrated with the claim. You could read the "Is he now? And when was this decided?" as surprise becasue he's literally not caught up in the thread at the moment. He does NOT actively try to derail the lynch onto Celeste or Zander or Kaylee or anyone and ends up voting Csarmi. Looks good responding with a quick town core to Pizza's question and then sticking around to see the flip.

 

I could go either way with Lenlo right now, so I'm going to move him down to a light green.

 

 

 

Really interesting. Especially with interactions irt csarmi's claim. The reaction to not being caught up in thread as I mentioned yesterday was off-putting. 

The fluffing/buddying attention that he receives from csarmi is also similar to the Zander/csarmi interaction.

 

It's also pretty bad for him to not actively advocate for a different lynch, and in the end just sheeps Pizza (posted that Pizza should make the decision). He did not go after his strongest lynch candidates yesterday, but instead resolves onto a consensus vote with little reasons given.

 

 

So couple things.

 

1) Why is the bold bad? First id been pushing Celeste all day, second we lynched scum. Wouldnt it be bad for me to actively try and push a different lynch than the scum one we got?

2) I did go after my strongest lynch candidates yesterday. I was for Celeste literally the entire day. If Celeste started to get traction id have been there in a heartbeat.

3) Pretty sure I never said ""there's no way he lives through the game. I don't think he's lying" in regards to Csarmi. Said it about Turin, yeah, but not Csarmi.

*sorry, my fault there for misreading. It was really late lol

 

 

 

 

Leno: what are your thoughts on the case Alanna did on you?

It's alright, but it has holes and I'm pretty sure she's attributing the wrong posts to the wrong people/topics.

If she is show where please. This goes towards helping clear you.

I already pointed out parts of it when responding to Wish. One of her points about saying I believed Csarmi's claim, I think she misattributed. I believe I said that to Turin/about Turins claim, not Csarmis.

So you have nothing on my hypothesis calling you mafia?

 

#2818 Cass, your comment on my Wish-case where I said she didn't go after the opportunity to push Zander while Pizza was. This was under the assumption that she was mafia and Zander was town, obviously. Now that he's flipped mafia, I see you might want to tinfoil.

 

So, she didn't go after the Kaylee case, she actually did the work to verify/discredit it. This is a townie move, unless we have Csarmi, Zander, Wish, Kaylee. Which would be weird, because Csarmi was already covering that base and feeding lines to Pizza. And then, under this scenario, she didn't know who to go after when all her teammates were lynches. Which is highly impossible. Easiest answer is that Wish is still town and really was conflicted when the Kaylee case fell through, Csarmi was up and Pizza vs Zander happened. Wish still blue/green for me. That post of her still sells it. Her earlier swipes at Csarmi sound like legit townie frustration to me, as well.

 

@ALL, Note: is Zander more or less likely to confuse Wish-Lenny and Celeste-Penny as a teammate? He's known them since TUS, same as me (though I was on a team with them) and they got added to the chat around the same time. If Zander is on a scum team with either of them and trying to align Wish with Lenny and Celeste with Penny, does he actually get confused between them or does he fake it?

 

Left off at top of /144

[Askthepizzaguy]

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