[Advanced] Nightmare Before Christmas - Town Wins!

[Shad_]

 

Pizza, thoughts on the bastard if you haven't given any yet.  If you already did then nevermind, I'll get there soon enough.

Which player?

 

 

John Snow

[Zander?]

 

Shad, do you remember anything Nolder has done? How bout you Zander? Aj? Pizza? BFG? Dice? Snow?

 

Dude has the 5th highest number of posts, yet the least content.

 

I don't remember the details of a lot of what Nolder has done because 1) his arguments are hard to follow and 2) he's been pretty deeply involved in the discussions.

 

In other words, I think you're completely wrong here.  Doesn't change the fact that I'm leaning scum on him though.

 

 

 

can you elaborate on this your reasoning please.

[Zander?]

@ Zander, I'm quoting this in full since the context is important: Hopefully the spoiler tags will work with a quote.

 

 

 

 

These aren't in order, I'm just tabbing stuff I will respond to.

 

I understand NotBob being a 'closed' player. What gave you the impression that this applied to Nolder at the time?

His delayed and substance-free start. Last game I looked at where he was town, he dove right in and began playing with everyone. In this one, his beginning matched his closed off scum game style.

 

Now, my accusation prompted activity from him, and after that engagement ended since it was essentially a sophisticated "nuh uh" from him, he made some observations on others.

 

That's different, and closer to what I want from him if he's a townie, but the bar is higher than what I've seen.

 

Oh, Pizza, my comment above on lurking, I definitely understand your perspective. And if someone straight up lies, like excusing an absence as they didn't have computer access while they were clearly active elsewhere, it's a good catch. I just don't think it indicates much of anything in the short term. Over the course of multiple days/phases, yeah, and there are a few players here I've learned to read by their lack of substantive thoughts when given more than ample time to form them.

If my concern about Nolder is a gallon bucket of water, my dismissal of the suggestion he was just sleeping because I saw a public post elsewhere in the interim, is about a thimble full.

 

The comment was merely to suggest that such a defense, (made by a player not named Nolder, mind) is not valid. Had very little to do with my suspicions, but it didn't help matters. It was null to mildly scummy, whereas his play to date at the time was a bucket of scum.

 

His argument method with me afterward is about three buckets of scum.

 

I'm dismayed he isn't more of a candidate but I can't control how people feel. So, I'm not going to tilt at a windmill all day long, time is wasting, and if he's somehow a townie despite his behavior, I'm not just wasting my time, I'm counterproductive.

 

The exact opposite of the bold is the truth. Last game NotBob was Town was Diablo. He popped in a couple hours before DL voted me saying he didnt even read anything, And only posted a few times that Day. I feel like you should know this if you looked back at the game Pizza.

 

What Scum game where you looking at of NotBobs to get his "closed off scum" style. The game I played with him and he was scum was the exact opposite of that which is how I feel he's playing more like here.

 

 

 

I think you missed that I'm talking about Nolder here, not NotBob. Unless you had a different point to make and I'm not clear on that.

 

 

Ok no sorry I thought you were talking about NotBob,

[Zander?]

Being recruited to watch a movie I'll bbl.

 

 

.....You can only run so far from me wolf before I catch you!!!!!

[Shad_]

 

 

Shad, do you remember anything Nolder has done? How bout you Zander? Aj? Pizza? BFG? Dice? Snow?

 

Dude has the 5th highest number of posts, yet the least content.

 

I don't remember the details of a lot of what Nolder has done because 1) his arguments are hard to follow and 2) he's been pretty deeply involved in the discussions.

 

In other words, I think you're completely wrong here.  Doesn't change the fact that I'm leaning scum on him though.

 

 

 

can you elaborate on this your reasoning please.

 

 

Not easily.  But I'll try to when I'm fully caught up.

 

I doubt I'll be able to put in as much work as I would like to before deadline because /sub, so I can't guarantee a fully articulated case where my final vote lands.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

Shad, do you remember anything Nolder has done? How bout you Zander? Aj? Pizza? BFG? Dice? Snow?

 

Dude has the 5th highest number of posts, yet the least content.

 

I don't remember the details of a lot of what Nolder has done because 1) his arguments are hard to follow and 2) he's been pretty deeply involved in the discussions.

 

In other words, I think you're completely wrong here.  Doesn't change the fact that I'm leaning scum on him though.

 

 

 

can you elaborate on this your reasoning please.

 

 

Not easily.  But I'll try to when I'm fully caught up.

 

I doubt I'll be able to put in as much work as I would like to before deadline because /sub, so I can't guarantee a fully articulated case where my final vote lands.

 

 

 

fair enough.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza, whats your take on the thing with Nolder that just happened? You had a case against him prior, what say you now?

 

I'm still waiting for the rest of the thread to catch up on Nolder being a likely scumbag.

 

In the meantime, I'm not going to dither and faff about. I have townies to identify.

 

Specific comments- I feel like a townie under pressure is going to make mistakes, and it WILL affect their psychological state and their ability to scum-hunt.

 

I did what I do which is look for reasons why he's town or scum, made the case he wasn't put pressure on him, questioned him in real time, and his arguments made him look even scummier. But I wasn't getting help lynching him so I'm off in elsewhereland. My point-

 

Time has passed, and the negative psychological state that happens to townies under severe pressure should have lessened. Town-Nolder, if he wants to win this game, should have taken the opportunity to go on the offense and find himself a wolf. I don't know if he's done that, I've been absent from the thread for a long while and have only just given brief reactions to the stuff I've speed-read to get caught up. Someone more objective can tell me if they really think that's what Nolder's been doing. I haven't seen it, but I haven't been looking for it (lately).

 

People don't want to lynch Thane because AFK, I understand. My vote on there is a waste of my time, because even if Thane is guilty neither town nor wolves will wish to push him when they have that excuse. It's a good excuse, to be fair. Nobody likes to die without being able to give a defense. But I should point out, some wolves should have wanted to lynch Thane if he's a townie. That's not a hard tell, but if it's not the case it means the wolves are happy with the direction of the game so far, or frozen.

 

I'll lynch Nolder today, if some others join in. I don't know if that exchange he just did is a tell or resignation from either alignment. There's a point where it's beating a dead horse because further pressure isn't going to make Nolder "feel" more pressure. He already knows he's under severe suspicion, and while people of either alignment can have the patience to battle against one prosecutor, or fair points, they usually begin to resign themselves in either alignment when multiple prosecutors join in and their points are harder to argue with. I'm having a difficult time finding the right words to express what I mean here.

 

The bottom line is that I think that Nolder's a wolf, but the exchange that just went down wouldn't tell you much if he were a townie. He could be giving up either way.

[Zander?]

Pizza did you read my thoughts on Tab and if so what did you think?  Also do you have anything yourself to add on her?

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

 

Pizza, thoughts on the bastard if you haven't given any yet.  If you already did then nevermind, I'll get there soon enough.

Which player?

 

 

John Snow

 

 

I can reiterate, and point to my previous because I did go into why John was a townie at one point, but more useful would be my opinions on what's happened with John in the interim, I didn't see much of that while I was catching up, but maybe I missed something.

 

I did go into John quite a bit pretty early on, I've been trying to look at other players since then and JS hasn't added much to his pile since I looked at his pile, so to speak. Again, unless I completely spaced a whole bunch of his posts.

 

I think he's a townie, I recall it was a fairly strong lean at the time.

[Lenlo]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza did you read my thoughts on Tab and if so what did you think?  Also do you have anything yourself to add on her?

I did. I'm fine with the pressure you're putting on Taborline based on the principles you're using in your case. It should find a scum sometimes, probably more often than rand.

 

It's similar to my case against Nolder, if Taborline is behaving differently that known games as town then it should be addressed.

 

Lack of investment and commitment on one's opinions, and just having leans and conditions isn't going to pressure wolves, and it isn't going to upset many townies. So that could be a wolf.

 

Combined with the difference in meta (which I don't know personally, I'm just accepting as likely to be true) that is two possible indicators of wolfing.

 

I had Tabor in my mild town leans but that's not much different from null. That was I don't see anything wolfy here yet.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can real time with you guys for a while since you're here, but I really want to redo my leans list since there's a lot more data to work from now.

 

You got enough to work with without me or do you want me to check in here a lot, or am I urgently needed right now, full attention?

[Lenlo]

Go do you. Deadline isnt for like 16-17 hours or something I think, so we have plenty of time.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm being told by Sooh that John Snow is the bastard because of Game of Thrones, which I saw one episode of and fell asleep because tired.

 

So yeah, GoT references will soar over my head until she shows me more episodes.

[Shad_]

Claiming it as inconsistency is not wrong nor is it distortion and you can think what you want about being scummy or not but usually when someone is right that's not scummy so I don't know where you're trying to go with that other than trying to call me scum as many times as you can and hope it sticks in the minds of others. It is inconsistent to be suspicious of Notbob for disagreeing with you on one person and not another. Simple fact. You sir are the one who's trying to distort the situation.

Nolder, if you're still here, what's your follow-through on red?

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

Alright lets get started then [v] Zander [/v]

 

I decided to have a special and start serving 3 pages early.

 

Doesn't count, he hasn't even posted yet. 

 

Yeah. How often does Zander not post? HUH?!

 

 

...I mean....you're not wrong.

 

I'd be down to lynch Zander before he even checks in. Mostly for the massive amounts of ensuing hilarity. 

 

 

 

Well you'd need to vote for him for that to happen. And I don't have anything better atm. 

 

[unvote] [v]Zander[/v]

 

 

 

It's not as useful, I want to know from people who read someone townie a lot that they're reading someone differently, and why.

 

It doesn't count if you guess they're always scum. That's the least useful guess to me because it's going to be wrong about 75% of the time, I might as well rand my vote.

 

:)

 

You guess someone is always townie and you'll be right most of the time. I know we're hunting wolves, but town does better with leaps of faith and finding each other correctly, then the wolves can't hide even if they're not even behaving like scum, they've just been POE'd.

 

@Bolded: That's actually a really good plan. I'll have to try that out. 

 

@ snow    you asked about AJ?  Ive got AJ as town. Why? his entrance.

 

That was back when I thought I saw something off about him. Happy with his play atm, no idea what I thought was tenacious before. 

 

 

 

If you think I'm scummy I'd rather you waste the day one lynch on me than string me along for days and then do it.

 

I'm not going to get any townier than I am right now.

AtE this early isn't good.

 

 

If you think I am scummy, vote for me, and try to get others to do so. Again, trying to convince me that I'm scum is unlikely to succeed.

 

 

There is absolutely nothing I disagree with in this post. That said, something about it pings me. *shrug* Willing to dismiss it as the rest of pizza's play is pretty solid. 

 

I'll need to look over the longer posts in the last couple of pages again in more detail when I'm not restricted to just my phone.

I'd still like a response from Snow and I'll be looking forward to Tab's contributions whenever she gets back around

 

Response on what? If you mean why I had you as scum, I couldn't find anything. The closest thing was kind of a stretch. Blame it on finals delirium. 

 

I dunno, like, I sometimes worry that he is hiding something behind all those words. I know its stupid, which is why I havnt even tried to build a case or anything off of it, but its in the back of my mind every time I read him.

 

Pretty sure WoT used to be a scum strategy here and (are? were?) a scum practice on another site that some DMers play at. Can't remember more than that about it, but it's a thing. Not getting that vibe from pizza though. 

 

 

the feeling i get from Zander is that he's doing what he can, but his spirit is elsewhere.... For Zan, he's quiet. Too quiet for some people, perhaps. But I'll give him some time

 

 

Underwhelmed by NotBob and Nolder's reactions to my cases on them, pretty sure there's at least one wolf contained within. Very satisfied with my D1 so far.

 

In other news, I'd cut Zander a break for a little bit. I know he's out of sorts but I don't think it's alignment indicative at present. I would wager we'll see old Zander back within a few days.

 

 

Thank you both for noting that but I want to be evaluated on in game merits and nothing else.  I'm doing everything I can to summon my WIM cause I actually randed Town this time and trying to get into the game full swing.  

 

I will be away some of tonight and tomorrow so I'll do as much as I can in between but after that I'll really try and focus everything into the game.

 

 

Every time you say this, it pings me. This is the second or third time this game alone. It sounds hollow and like you're compensating. You would say that if you were a wolf too (or, at least, you should if you're playing to your WC). 

 

@Leelou: How can we have a hybrid hammer game with no deadline? >_> 

I guess D1 is just regular hammer until you get bored?

 

....Really? I mean, us having no DL is advantageous for a few days while we get some solid reads on people. 

 

Snow - did you ever look into Nolder? What was it you didn't like about Dice?

 

Up until my most recent catch-up, I'm pretty sure the primary argument against Nol was meta. I don't put much basis in meta, it's way too easy to manipulate. I'm liking the current case on him, but I'm going to reread some stuff in a bit. 

 

I never said I found Dice scummy. I just wasn't getting the clear town vibes that other people were from him. 

 

[unvote] [v]Zander[/v]

 

Re: Repeatedly claiming to have randed town. Sounds hollow and like a guilty conscience. 

 

Going to re-read a couple cases, do an ISO or two, then post a read list. Expect it in ~2ish hours. 

 

 

 

 

-snip-

I'm doing everything I can to summon my WIM cause I actually randed Town this time and trying to get into the game full swing.  

-snip-

 

 

-snip-

Im 100% Town this game and I'm ready willing and able to prove that to everyone!!!

 

 

 

Im Town again sweet

-snip

 

 

Off of a quick skim of his ISO. 

 

 

 

 

SNIP

 

-snip-

John Snow- Same as Not Bob.  Did feel his back and forth vote with Lenlo on me was off.  And I think Len's town so...it may not be that either HAS to be scum but it stood out to me.

-snip-

 

Bolded pings me. 

 

 

 

SNIP

 

Taborline

Zander

 

 

 

 

I want to reread my nulls and get better opinions on them. 

I'd have dice as light scum if my top town reads weren't town reading him. 

Zander and Tabor are mutually exclusive. I don't see Zander Kivam'ing, so if one flips scum, it clears the other in my book. 

Tabor because of Zander's case on her. 

BFG's meta-based analysis bugs me. Meta is too easy to manipulate, and is (imo) an easy thing for scum to look at. Going to try to get a feel from her other games to see if this is consistent. (The irony). 

I don't even know how to ISO NotBob. 

Nol's one of the ones I really can't decide on. 

Thane's preprocalimed inactivity, nothing to really do with that slot. 
Pretty sure AJ's town here 7/10 times.

95% sure on the dark greens.

 

 

 

 

 

-snip-
I'm doing everything I can to summon my WIM cause I actually randed Town this time and trying to get into the game full swing.  
-snip-

 -snip-

Which of these bothered you the most?

 

 

That one. 

 

 

 

 

 

attempting to spoiler hopefully it works

 

Like this is basically every post John Snow mentions me.  The only thing I see as his case is that he;s bothered because I've mentioned Im town in some posts.

 

And Tab is only other scum read is based off the case I HIS TOP SCUM read made.

 

This isn't a  good look imo.

[Shad_]

 

 

 

Pizza, thoughts on the bastard if you haven't given any yet.  If you already did then nevermind, I'll get there soon enough.

Which player?

 

 

John Snow

 

 

I can reiterate, and point to my previous because I did go into why John was a townie at one point, but more useful would be my opinions on what's happened with John in the interim, I didn't see much of that while I was catching up, but maybe I missed something.

 

I did go into John quite a bit pretty early on, I've been trying to look at other players since then and JS hasn't added much to his pile since I looked at his pile, so to speak. Again, unless I completely spaced a whole bunch of his posts.

 

I think he's a townie, I recall it was a fairly strong lean at the time.

 

 

He showed up for a bit after that, made some comments about Dice and Zander that I can remember, maybe others, voted Zander.

[Zander?]

I'm being told by Sooh that John Snow is the bastard because of Game of Thrones, which I saw one episode of and fell asleep because tired.

 

So yeah, GoT references will soar over my head until she shows me more episodes.

 

GOTTA WATCH GoT BROTHER!!!!

[Shad_]

 

Claiming it as inconsistency is not wrong nor is it distortion and you can think what you want about being scummy or not but usually when someone is right that's not scummy so I don't know where you're trying to go with that other than trying to call me scum as many times as you can and hope it sticks in the minds of others. It is inconsistent to be suspicious of Notbob for disagreeing with you on one person and not another. Simple fact. You sir are the one who's trying to distort the situation.

Nolder, if you're still here, what's your follow-through on red?

 

 

Bumping this because it got stuck at the bottom of the page.

[Sooh]

 

I'm being told by Sooh that John Snow is the bastard because of Game of Thrones, which I saw one episode of and fell asleep because tired.

 

So yeah, GoT references will soar over my head until she shows me more episodes.

 

GOTTA WATCH GoT BROTHER!!!!

 

Working on it

[Shad_]

I know this prolly just stupid to mention but my god I hate it when people include themselves in their read lists.

+1

[Zander?]

 

 

I'm being told by Sooh that John Snow is the bastard because of Game of Thrones, which I saw one episode of and fell asleep because tired.

 

So yeah, GoT references will soar over my head until she shows me more episodes.

 

GOTTA WATCH GoT BROTHER!!!!

 

Working on it

 

 

[Shad_]

 

 

I'm being told by Sooh that John Snow is the bastard because of Game of Thrones, which I saw one episode of and fell asleep because tired.

 

So yeah, GoT references will soar over my head until she shows me more episodes.

 

GOTTA WATCH GoT BROTHER!!!!

 

Working on it

 

My "bastard" reference was a test totally unrelated to this game.

[Zander?]

 

I know this prolly just stupid to mention but my god I hate it when people include themselves in their read lists.

+1

 

 

Ok now I dont feel as stupid for mentioning it!!!

 

lolololololol

[Zander?]

 

 

 

I'm being told by Sooh that John Snow is the bastard because of Game of Thrones, which I saw one episode of and fell asleep because tired.

 

So yeah, GoT references will soar over my head until she shows me more episodes.

 

GOTTA WATCH GoT BROTHER!!!!

 

Working on it

 

My "bastard" reference was a test totally unrelated to this game.