[Advanced] Nightmare Before Christmas - Town Wins!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza, can you explain your read on Thane?

 

Yeah. I'll have to gather citations but it'll be the next thing I do for this game.

[BFG]

Cool, if you're around can you explain why you're looking for meta on NB but happy to go ahead with your read on Snow?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Cool, if you're around can you explain why you're looking for meta on NB but happy to go ahead with your read on Snow?

 

NB?

 

NotBob? Because NotBob's play so far has been closed, whereas John Snow's play has been open. I rely far more heavily on in-thread and this-game information with open players.

 

Closed players are ones that don't post often and don't post much when they do, and their reads and opinions are not fully developed or well-explained, or their interactions with other players are not substantial.

 

I can attempt to cold read John Snow, I couldn't begin to cold read a closed player with no personal history between us. Why I had to resort to digging through Nolder's old games given his participation thusfar. And NotBob is also at the top of my research list, given where I stand on him aorn.

 

I can see John's motivations and thought process, that's the difference between an open and closed player. I'm on the extreme end of being an open player. That's why it puzzles me that people want to rely on what they think my meta is. You should be able to read me from game to game, I'm not hiding anything and I'm readily available.

[Nolder]

 

0/3.  Some other day we will play "guess a movie that Shad has actually seen". 

Akira?

 

 

Sup guys. I'm here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all outta bubblegum!

 

ACTUALLY...

 

 

Nolder is awesome. It's such a shame he's mafia this time.

 

Vote: Nolder

It would be a shame...if that were true.

 

 

Nolder is awesome. It's such a shame he's mafia this time.

 

Vote: Nolder

wolfie...

 

Little early to jump to someone's defense isn't it?

Now here's the part where you say "well I was just talking about his lack of reasoning".

Sure, sure you were. Well unfortunately for you you didn't say so.

 

-1

 

"Raisons on Noldy and Dicey?"

 

I gave a reason for Dice, but I can go into more detail on that if you would like me to, later today.

 

As for Nolder, it's much more detailed, and I'm sure people are curious, but to put it succinctly: He behaved this way in Age Of Legends where he was scum, and very very very differently in Lolcats ZOMG Apocalypse thingy where he was a townie.

Do you think it's fair to compare gameplay from games which are 3 years apart? 

Why not compare Age of Legends to or something else more recent?

 

Thanks for the response on that question. Dice is someone that gives me trouble, and I tend to read him wrong (lol Harry Potter), so I've recently just slotted him town for the hell of it, unless there's a legit reason to read him wolf. Will reevaluate d2 probably.

 

Nolder I'm 2/2 reading him scum in recent games just because he acts scummy af when mafia lol your notes also look good

It's true. I absolutely cannot grip the psychology of pretending to be town when I'm not. I just can't trick my brain into acting normal.

I think I even used to be better at being mafia in the past but IMO as I've gotten better at being town I've lost some of what made me OK as mafia as a result.

 

I did an in depth look at Nolder since I only know him as a game host, never as a player.

 

I think I've played with everyone else once, maybe, except the folks that didnt show up yet?

Would you really say comparing 2 games (that you claim to not have even finished reading) is an in depth look?

 

Why is Nolder a townie?

Terrible question and if we were later in the game it might even be lynch worthy.

You're asking someone to prove I'm a townie when it's not really their job.

You are the one making the initial statement that you think I'm mafia and it's your job to prove it.

Someone looking at what you're saying and going "nah I don't think so" isn't indicative of my alignment it's indicative of your poor case.

 

Not that I blame you overmuch in that regard. Not only are you wrong but it's also early in the game.

We have to talk about something don't we?

 

Can you put this into an actual case rather than this bulleted list sort of thing? I can sort of see what your getting at with Nolder but before I do anything on the matter I want you to spell it out for me. This way I can understand more where your coming from and get you locked down into a case on Nolder so you cant shift the goal posts/do scum things about it later on.

 

Basically I would like you to clarify this if you dont mind.

 

Fence sitting.

 

Normally I wouldn't call it this early in the game but the hedging language of "I can sort of see" is what really stands out.

 

 

About NotBob: When he is scum, does he have trouble being decisive, or does he take neutral positions on things? Is he cautious, hesitant?

 

This is meta I am missing. I value input on this.

Notbob is always cautious and hesitant unless he's ready to lynch then he can come down on someone like a ton of bricks.

 

 

Nolder looks disinterested.  Means nothing at this point.

I'm very skeptical that Nolder means nothing to you. I feel that you're aware of Nolder's alignment, and don't want to reveal how you became aware of it.

 

Whether Nolder is townie or not, you are likely not.

 

You really like to come out swinging eh?

 

I know gut feelings I'm having are difficult to reproduce, but could you take a lot at my exchange with NotBob so far.

 

I don't know if I can put it any more simply, and it would help if I could. But I don't often see townies defend other players that they have ranked as null on their list of suspects, where they don't have any strong feelings one way or the other.

 

What I do see is scumbags defend against accusations on other players who are townie- in such a case, the objective is to look "more correct" than the other player, and further drive a wedge between the player who is accusing, and his target, both of them townies. It's a way of keeping the fire going between townies, where agreeing with the accuser would also make the accused not like you, now the accused townie has a reason to appreciate you.

 

Or, they'll defend a fellow scumbag, and of course, when pressed on the reasons why, if they can't offer any, it looks pretty bad.

 

I can't really tell which is which here, but regardless of whether or not I'm correct about Nolder, NotBob's null stance on Nolder yet positive disagreement with me that Nolder is scum, indicates that NotBob is doing one of the above behaviors- defending a townie but not being able to articulate how you arrive at such a position, or defending a fellow scumbag, and not being able to explain why, so he insists that he's not saying that Nolder is a townie, but null.

 

I don't buy it and I don't think that's hardly ever a townie's behavior.

 

If I defend someone or disagree with the case against them, my reasons are hardly ever nonexistent, and my stance on that player isn't null either.

 

Can you spend several minutes looking into this and give me a second opinion, please AJ

Or he could actually just think I'm null. That's not a possibility you're allowing and it's unfair to the analysis.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Thane:

Pg1: null single post.
Pg2, 3, 4: nada

pg5: 92 is a multiquote talking mostly to nonplayers, takes no risks. 93 is not game related, 96 is not substantial. Basically, Thane hasn't engaged with the game yet. No judgments made there, just saying.

Pg6: Calls me a wolf for saying Nolder is a wolf. I'm not, and he makes no attempt to understand my vote, he's not even curious. That's bad villaging at the very least.
115 he redirects my attention to his calling me a wolf, which is worse, because it's as if he expects me to be impressed or scared that he called me a wolf incorrectly for zero reasons. I don't recognize this as a solving process. 120 his response to me doesn't even really indicate that he thinks I'm a wolf. So he's fishing somewhat impotently for reactions, or is a wolf.

Pg7: 125 Game has started but Thane is posting like he's still waiting for it to start, which isn't a good look after he called me wolfy, and expected me to react and hasn't followed up on that.
126 I still don't believe he thinks I'm a wolf here. Not sure what the wolfie comment was supposed to accomplish?
133 he's generically cautious about me. That's nothing I haven't heard a half dozen times this game alone, so it's nothing that goes outside of any boxes or takes any risks or really accomplishes much. I'm very critical of any kind of play that is expected, boring, and generic. Still talking about previous games, not engaging with this one. That's a behavior I am also critical of. 136 see previous comment.

Pg8 onward- nada.

 

That's what I get from Thane. A slow, riskless start which is generic and uninspired. No offense Thane. I just can't find reasons why this isn't your scum game so far. What's townie about it? What's solving about it?

 

You're either rand or scum, I can't find anything here which puts you at greater than random to be a townie.

 

It's early, that's the only reason why you're not a darker shade of red on my list. That's what I got. Want to reverse it, do something townie.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why not compare Age of Legends to or something else more recent?

 

Got something for me? I would be fine to take another look, but it's sometimes hard to tell what's a mafia game and this isn't my usual site.

[Zander?]

Getting read up.  I apologize Im not at this like I normally am.

 

Pizza you scum?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Or he could actually just think I'm null. That's not a possibility you're allowing and it's unfair to the analysis.

You're either a townie or you're a mafioso, null isn't an alignment.

 

Null is a position. Dismissing suspicion on someone you have no opinion is not something I recognize as a legitimate process.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Getting read up.  I apologize Im not at this like I normally am.

 

Pizza you scum?

When you get fully caught up, you will tell me that I'm not.

[Nolder]

 

Why not compare Age of Legends to or something else more recent?

 

Got something for me? I would be fine to take another look, but it's sometimes hard to tell what's a mafia game and this isn't my usual site.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92636-escape-from-the-carnival-of-horrors-game-thread-mafia-win/ - Mafia (won)

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86079-basic-the-walking-dead-mafia-game-over-theo-wins/ - Town (lost)

 

Even though Town lost TWD game and I was killed N1 I've been told by a few people it was a really good game for me.

These are both more recent than Red's lolcats games.

[Nolder]

 

Or he could actually just think I'm null. That's not a possibility you're allowing and it's unfair to the analysis.

You're either a townie or you're a mafioso, null isn't an alignment.

 

Null is a position. Dismissing suspicion on someone you have no opinion is not something I recognize as a legitimate process.

 

And he doesn't have a position on me yet because I barely posted anything.

 

You're saying the reason Notbob has that position is either because A (we're both scum) or B (he's scum) without allowing for C (he just doesn't have a position yet).

 

And I don't see him as dismissing suspicion on someone so much as he was giving his opinions on people.

Go back and read your interactions on Page 8. You poked him and he asked you who you found scummy.

You told him your thoughts and he agreed on Thane and disagreed on me and AJ.

I mean why aren't you all over him about AJ if you're going to call him dismissive about me?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nolder, the town game you linked is far older than the lolcats game I looked at.

I looked at Age of Legends (Sept 2015) and Lolcats Zomg. (Feb 2015) because I was looking for your most recent town and scum game from this site.

 

If they aren't that, I'm still not interested in looking at games from 2013 unless you've got a good reason.

 

Did one of us miscommunicate something?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I mean why aren't you all over him about AJ if you're going to call him dismissive about me?

Is that really your top concern with what I'm doing? Strange thing to pick at.

 

Just a heads up: I consider most consistency arguments to be hogwash. When cornered, mafiosi tend to try to find any inconsistency they can pick at, any uneven application of townie justice, and demand rigorous consistency.

 

It's a thinking process that is alien to townies, at least most of the time. At no point am I going to be concerned, this early on day one, that player A finds player B scummier than player C when both are exhibiting similar behaviors. We have one vote, and can chase one car at a time.

 

I'm all over NotBob, period. I've gone after him quite a bit. Critiquing me for not going after NotBob for something so very minor is... absurd, and really wrong.

[Nolder]

Nolder, the town game you linked is far older than the lolcats game I looked at.

 

I looked at Age of Legends (Sept 2015) and Lolcats Zomg. (Feb 2015) because I was looking for your most recent town and scum game from this site.

 

If they aren't that, I'm still not interested in looking at games from 2013 unless you've got a good reason.

 

Did one of us miscommunicate something?

Yes. I didn't even remember Red ran a lolcats game earlier this year.

I thought you were talking about this game: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/69081-advanced-teh-lolz-apocalypse-mafia-game-over-congrads-mafia/

[Zander?]

PM me your credit card numbers and verification codes.

 

"That's a stupid idea, and i'm not doing it."

 

Rule #10, guys.  Rule #10.

 

I'll show you mine if you show me yours?

 

 

As long as nothing game related gets posted by outsiders, and as long as they don't take over the game...I don't care if they post. If any players have complaints, PM me. 

 

That's great, it's not like Im easily enough confused normally...lolololololol

 

 

 

If any players have complaints, PM me. 

 

Incoming PM from dice in 3.....2.....1...... 

 

 

lololololololol

 

 

I think Shad should experience die hard to the fullest.... I'll take care of it.

 

 

Shad run for your life

 

 

 

Brb, modkilling Dice.

 

 

Rumor has it he has a thing for baseball bats, try using that imo.

 

*innocent face*

[Askthepizzaguy]

Fair enough misunderstanding. But that little nitpick you just did raises more flags.

 

You are going to want to talk to me and level with me, if you're looking for openings to counterattack I'm very satisfied with my vote.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

hey! you cant modkill me!!!

 

 

its not my fault you cant write the rules without leaving loopholes!!!!!

You missed the part where she can change it to whatever she wants.

 

 

SHE can  HE cant.

 

 

gotta pay attention to the wording len.

 

You wanna go dice?!

 

 

[Nolder]

 

I mean why aren't you all over him about AJ if you're going to call him dismissive about me?

Is that really your top concern with what I'm doing? Strange thing to pick at.

 

Just a heads up: I consider most consistency arguments to be hogwash. When cornered, mafiosi tend to try to find any inconsistency they can pick at, any uneven application of townie justice, and demand rigorous consistency.

 

It's a thinking process that is alien to townies, at least most of the time. At no point am I going to be concerned, this early on day one, that player A finds player B scummier than player C when both are exhibiting similar behaviors. We have one vote, and can chase one car at a time.

 

I'm all over NotBob, period. I've gone after him quite a bit. Critiquing me for not going after NotBob for something so very minor is... absurd, and really wrong.

 

Well we're at odds in that regard because consistency is something I cling to as a townie.

Something I really harp on for example is when Person A calls Person B scum but doesn't vote them.

That's very inconsistent and often leads me to mafia. You should put more stock in consistency I think.

 

As for Day 1, yes I agree that particular example isn't something to build a case on and as you'll note I'm not voting you.

But I do think your position on Notbob is unfair to the situation and inconsistent which is why I said so. And like I said I don't think consistency is that minor.

 

I mean, really you say you don't put stock into consistency but your entire case on me was founded on whether I was consistent with Game X or Game Y.

So obviously you think consistency is more important than you're letting on here.

[Nolder]

Fair enough misunderstanding. But that little nitpick you just did raises more flags.

 

You are going to want to talk to me and level with me, if you're looking for openings to counterattack I'm very satisfied with my vote.

Nitpick? I made a mistake. How are you going to say fair enough and then say it raises flags? lol

[Askthepizzaguy]

Confusing the generic with the specific.

 

That's another tactic I recognize as scummy.

 

You're picking at my finding NotBob suspicious because of his position on you, which I had as strongly scummy and his was "null", as opposed to finding NotBob suspicious because of his position on AJ, which I had as mildly suspicious and his was "null".

 

It's obvious why one would be more concerned about the stronger disagreement, and the pressure on NotBob exists.

 

So to claim that it's an example of inconsistency, is wrong and scummy. It's distortion at best.

 

Behaving like the last game you were in where you were total scum, and wildly differently from the last game I could find where you were townie, that's a legit problem.

 

The kinds of consistency arguments I find scummy are the former, not the latter.

 

And it should be obvious why. It's not a mistake that you're confusing the two examples. That's deliberate on your part, and it's a scummy argument.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Fair enough misunderstanding. But that little nitpick you just did raises more flags.

 

You are going to want to talk to me and level with me, if you're looking for openings to counterattack I'm very satisfied with my vote.

Nitpick? I made a mistake. How are you going to say fair enough and then say it raises flags? lol

 

Was referring to the previous post I had made about your consistency hobgoblin.

[Zander?]

Clov's defo scum. 

 

Non-players posting is throwing me off a tad until I figure memorize who's in this game. 

 

I'm a tad bit disappointed in Len for not starting this game yet. I had high hopes for him. 

 

[v]Len[/v]

 

 

 

Clov's defo scum. 

 

Non-players posting is throwing me off a tad until I figure memorize who's in this game. 

 

I'm a tad bit disappointed in Len for not starting this game yet. I had high hopes for him. 

 

[v]Len[/v]

Well im a tad disappointed in you for trying to start this game. I had hopes you would be fun.

 

[v]John Snow[/v]

 

 

 

Alright lets get started then [v] Zander [/v]

 

I decided to have a special and start serving 3 pages early.

 

 

Well you'd need to vote for him for that to happen. And I don't have anything better atm. 

 

[unvote] [v]Zander[/v]

 

 

Oh yeah [unvote][v]Zander[/v]

 

Forgot about the unvote.

 

 

OK seriously does this not seem an awkward back and forth between these guys?

[Zander?]

 

 

 

Alright lets get started then [v] Zander [/v]

 

I decided to have a special and start serving 3 pages early.

 

Doesn't count, he hasn't even posted yet. 

 

Yeah. How often does Zander not post? HUH?!

 

 

...I mean....you're not wrong.

 

I'd be down to lynch Zander before he even checks in. Mostly for the massive amounts of ensuing hilarity. 

 

 

 

Wanna do it? Cause im all for it. We would prevent so many gifs.

 

you don't know jack.

[Askthepizzaguy]

OK seriously does this not seem an awkward back and forth between these guys?

A couple of wolves under no pressure with barely anyone else around tripping awkwardly over their sudden desire to lynch a guy who hasn't checked in yet = No.

 

Maybe one wolf contained within, but I looked at both of them, John Snow in depth.

 

Awkward yes, scummy less so.

[Zander?]

Die Hard is a classic.

 

I was watching the UFC fights earlier and I'm a bit wasted. Tomorrow I get to scrape popcorn ceilings so my involvement won't really kick in until Monday.

 

Idk Snow enough to say his attitude is anything but town, so if someone has experience otherwise speak up. The start fast thing feels a little generic but I'm fine to roll with it for now.

 

In the meantime I'm gonna play darts. See you all tmrw

 

 

CONNOR GOAT