[Advanced] Nightmare Before Christmas - Town Wins!

[Andrej]

@Pizza - The only thing I would really say that you might want to consider is that NotBob does have a more significant amount of time playing with Nolder than a lot of us probably do.

 

Like I get what he's saying when he says "Nolder doesn't seem to care so that's null" because I've seen apathetic villagers too, but disagreeing with your read and then keeping him null is questionable.

[Andrej]

lol he does talk a lot, Len.

[Andrej]

[v]NotBob[/v]

 

Good place to start

[Lenlo]

So let me attempt to put the notBob case into less words: You guys think its scummy that he professes a null read on Nolder while disagreeing with Pizza's case, and this leads you to think that he already knows Nolders flip? So like he is possibly prepping to look good when/if Nolder flips town?

[Askthepizzaguy]

That said, I will reserve my right to tinfoil later on if I feel like he's not playing to town's best interests :P

 

...

 

so I'll probably never get over the little voice in my head that tells me to be worried but I'm rather happy with him for D1.

 

 

As a townie I have to battle hard against my wolf meta.  I try to give some reason you can actually sink your teeth into that differentiates my behavior here from past scum games. Right now I don't have any. But I was able to convince some people that my Nomi was townie based on just day one stuff.

 

If I get something more concrete I'll try to articulate it. In the meantime, I'll just lay out everything that I'm thinking right now.

 

My mood going into this game: Relaxed but energetic, ready to roll up my sleeves. It's a lot of the reason why John Snow's opener resonated with me. I do want us to get down to business, and have fun as well. I don't want to get dragged into drawn-out disagreements or clutter the thread with junk, and I don't want to spam or see others pad their post count while avoiding the game. I do want to talk things out with the people I suspect, because if they are townies, I want every chance to identify why they are.

 

I am not about writing people off as scum as quickly as I can, because that's hasty and often wrong. I am about trying to catch the scums or force them to take positions which can be questioned, as quickly as possible.

 

If I catch a scum Nolder based on old fashioned analysis that quickly, good for me. But the seriousness of the charges is itself a catalyst for discussion. NotBob's position on the matter is very questionable and wouldn't be known unless I had made that initial case on Nolder and pushed it.

 

That's how little cracks get revealed, in my opinion. That's my theory, that's my approach. I don't have to nail the Nolder case right out of the gate, but the fact that there's stuff to agree or disagree on, and ask people why they feel that way, that is the beginning of real mafia play.

 

I don't want to wait for it to happen, I want it to already be happening, so that is what I've done so far.

 

If either Nolder or NotBob is scum, especially NotBob, that really validates this approach.

 

If either of them are townies, there's plenty of time left in the day for them to get me to see otherwise. But I need something.

 

There's stuff I can't do- I can't really read into Zander's alignment yet and pushing him when he's given us the heads up that he won't be here, is not going to yield a lot of discussion points. There's nothing to really agree or disagree with except the philosophy of pushing an absent zander. That's a waste of time and a wasted vote.

 

I also can't systematically go through each player one by one and prod them all to death. I need to assume most of you are townies, and you all have a limited amount of patience. I have to offer a solution or two to the game, and change it up later on if I think it's wrong. Others will have to do their part and push on the guilty parties that I can't get to personally. Whether AJ is guilty or not, for example, if I want him to even bother to look into what I'm saying on Nolder or NotBob, I won't get very far accusing him as well. There's a point where too much pressure everywhere is a disaster, a chore to read, and self-defeating as a scum-hunting tool.

 

If it were effective, I'd do it, because I have the energy and the desire to hunt. But it's just a matter of realizing it won't do any good, and just working with the tools I have, and the time frame I've been allotted so far. Solving the game takes many moves, and you can't just spam those moves, you need to give people time to process and react.

 

I think where I started is a fair place to begin. And if I'm wrong, I'm allowing for that possibility.

 

That's everything that's going on in my brain right now. Its probably too much information. But if you want to understand where I'm coming from, this probably hits the nail on the head.

[John Snow]

 

 

I'm not sold on dice yet. I don't like AJ's tenacity either. I think I remember more willingness to do stuff in the early game from him before, but I'll have to check. 

I'll ISO Nol and see what I think about that. 

For now, I'm going to [unvote] [v]AJ[/v]

 

Tenacity? Explain if you would.

 

I don't really see how you can say I was unwilling to do anything, unless you're talking about voting Zander? Then no, you're right about that. I didn't vote him because I didn't see the point in doing so for absolutely no reason.

 

Like I said earlier, I appreciate your enthusiasm but it was sort of forced in a generic/hokey kind of way. Like I don't think it actually really accomplished anything really meaningful

 

 

I looked back and your posts and didn't find anything really resembling what I thought I saw. Which is irritating. I must've been misreading something earlier. 

[unvote]

[Lenlo]

Pizza, I would consider it a personal favor to me if you could cut down and simplify your posts to something shorter than an essay. Cause everytime I read one of these long things I die alittle inside and get more paranoid that you are hiding something behind all of these words.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So let me attempt to put the notBob case into less words: You guys think its scummy that he professes a null read on Nolder while disagreeing with Pizza's case, and this leads you to think that he already knows Nolders flip? So like he is possibly prepping to look good when/if Nolder flips town?

 

That's one distinct possibility. You got it.

 

The other is- he was responding to my stances on people, and since Nolder is my top suspect at the time, if he's a wolf with Nolder and doesn't want to bus Nolder, the best way to avoid doing so is to simply disagree without going into too much detail.

 

When pressed, it's not a defense, per se- it's null. Nolder is null, according to NotBob.

 

Because a strong defense of Nolder isn't possible just now, most likely, and saying he's so townie under these circumstances will look bad for him if Nolder flips guilty.

 

Both are really plausible and look identical to what happened.

 

Now, let's be thorough- does this happen a lot from townies? Is this something NotBob will do as a townie?

 

Look at the what if NotBob is a townie scenarios and walk me through the natural and logical thought process.

 

I have no opinion on Laine right now, for example. If someone said she was scummy, and I thought there wasn't enough to go on, I'd probably ask for more information, and do the Socratic method of either leading that person to the conclusion that they don't really have much either, or to a place where they can articulate it more. Either is useful.

 

But what I wouldn't do is say Laine isn't scummy and dismiss it out of hand. I would say there isn't much to go on, but I'd want to know more, I'd want to flesh it out, so that I can understand what's being said, so Laine's accuser can better articulate it, so Laine herself can give a defense.

 

That's useful to everyone.

 

Saying no, it's null, and not giving more to the conversation is not good townie-ing imo.

 

Does that mean NotBob is NotTownie? I don't know. I did ask the meta question and it still hangs in the air, does NotBob behave in a certain manner as scum, unsure, indecisive, give neutral opinions a lot, etc.

 

I will go look myself. But it's worth posing the question so others will think, and if they know NotBob, they won't have to do research, they can just go yeah, that's NotBob's scum game, or no, it's not.

 

All of that is useful.

 

As for less words, I might need a pizza-english translator. Less words is hard for me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza, I would consider it a personal favor to me if you could cut down and simplify your posts to something shorter than an essay. Cause everytime I read one of these long things I die alittle inside and get more paranoid that you are hiding something behind all of these words.

 

I appreciate your stance on it, but it's probably not going to happen.

 

I've played for too many years, this concern comes up a lot. It would be to my advantage to trim it down. I just am a poor editor, I don't know how to do what you're asking. Some of my thoughts are really difficult for me to convey at all, let alone with brevity.

 

I give the other players in the game what I have, and this is the best I have. If I could edit better I would... just know that I wish I knew how.

[Lenlo]

From what I have seen, NotBob is pretty quiet and succinct just as a player. He explains what he wants, when he wants and if he doesnt want to, to bad. Do I think this is good? No. Do I think we shouldnt lynch him for acting this way? Also no. But I would like more to go on than just NotBob doesnt wanna talk to me.

 

I would like a translator then yeah. Ill pay 1 cent a word, so about 7 bucks a post at this rate.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I could make fewer posts, and engage in the discussion less. That would give people fewer of my words to read / scroll past.

 

I don't know if that would actually be a helpful thing to do, and it would be pretty hard for me to maintain such restraint. Really difficult.

[Lenlo]

I could make fewer posts, and engage in the discussion less. That would give people fewer of my words to read / scroll past.

 

I don't know if that would actually be a helpful thing to do, and it would be pretty hard for me to maintain such restraint. Really difficult.

Nah man, if this is you this is you. Dont restrict yourself and make the game easier for scum just because I get annoyed reading abunch of stuff. Ill power through it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Just know that such a concern is in my brain, along with a maelstrom of other crap.

 

It's there. I'm trying to balance a lot of conflicting needs.

[Andrej]

I haven't seen NotBob as scum except once or twice, and the most recent one I didn't even realize it was him until it was pretty much over with (on JetsNation).

 

As a villager though, I think he's fairly easy to spot. He's low-volume as either alignment from what I can tell, so I wouldn't say that's much of an indicator but the way he conveys his thoughts/reads is hard to miss.

 

We'll see how he progresses from here and I don't wanna write his defense for him, but as Pizza pointed out if Nolder or NotBob is scum then the hesitant read doesn't look so good for the other.

[Andrej]

I looked back and your posts and didn't find anything really resembling what I thought I saw. Which is irritating. I must've been misreading something earlier. 

[unvote]

 

Cool.

 

Did you find the cause of your confusion? I'm actually curious.

[Andrej]

I'm pretty comfortable proceeding from this point with villa reads on Pizza/Lenlo/Dice

 

I wanna flesh some more stuff out with Snow first and Laine looks okay at a glance for putting in work early but that'll need to second look before too long, I think.

 

That pretty much leaves everyone else in null or 'below' categories. 

[Andrej]

That said, bedtime for me.

 

See you guys on the other side

[Askthepizzaguy]

Good night, AJ.

 

@ everyone

 

This is the start of my day, so I'll be on and off for a while. I think I'm done looking at the stuff I was pointing at.

 

You'll get a lot more posts from me if you speak to me directly. Otherwise I'll try to not spam up the thread too much. Want less posts from me, just talk to someone else. :P

 

I don't have a lot else to do today except lounge around and read this game. So I'll be a sleeping bear for a bit. Poke the bear and stuff will happen unless I'm taking a nap.

[John Snow]

 

I looked back and your posts and didn't find anything really resembling what I thought I saw. Which is irritating. I must've been misreading something earlier. 

[unvote]

 

Cool.

 

Did you find the cause of your confusion? I'm actually curious.

 

 

No, I have no idea what gave me that impression. 

 

And I need to sleep. I'll be on late tomorrow with more to say. 

[BFG]

Pizza, can you explain your read on Thane?

[BFG]

At this point I'm pretty comfortable with Dice, but after that it gets trickier.

 

 

Some of Lenlos approach to Pizza seems far more likely to come from Town!Lenlo (in particular I'm thinking of his response about the quoting and request about Pizzas 'wordy' posts) but I'd have to check Matrix to see if that helpful mentality is something he doesn't replicate as mafia.

[BFG]

I'm also liking Laine for town at this point, her willingness to dive in and offer opinions off the bat is a good look

[BFG]

Pizza's tricky, he's more aggressive early on than he was as Nomi, but I don't hate his stances as reasoned, probably best described as cautiously optimistic.

[Leelou]

Vote Count
 

Zander (1) -  Lenlo

Nolder (1) - Pizza 

Snow (1) - Laine

NotBob (1) - AJ

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[BFG]

I'm pretty comfortable proceeding from this point with villa reads on Pizza/Lenlo/Dice

 

I wanna flesh some more stuff out with Snow first and Laine looks okay at a glance for putting in work early but that'll need to second look before too long, I think.

 

That pretty much leaves everyone else in null or 'below' categories.

I agree with your town reads, but do you have a split between null and below?