Ragnarok Game Thread - Game Over, Town Wins!

[dicetosser1]

 

@ Kivam

 

 

can we get a DL counter?  I have no idea when that DL is for me

 

I have no idea how to do a DL counter.  For reference, it's 5:48pm for me (and your post was at 5:31).  So however many hours behind you that is ...

 

 

 

VOTE COUNT

 

 

 

Eldrick (1) - Lenlo

Ocicat (3) - Tina, Dice, Eldrick

Talya (2) - WishLESTE, Ocicat

Pral (1) - KeyBOOSE

WishLeste (1) - Talya

 

Not voting (9): Songstress, Sili, Leelou, Verbal, Taborline, Pralaya, Sooh, John Snow, Mish

 

9 to lynch

 

DEADLINE IS NOON EASTERN (GMT - 4) ON WEDNESDAY. No Majority = No lynch

 

 

He learns fast!!

 

thanks Kiv! 

 

 

the DM time throws things out. theres what you posted as you saw but for me mine was like 730 am lol

[Lenlo]

Curious to see more of your thoughts on Eldrick, Lenlo, since I posted mine earlier.

It might be abit. He has a good number of posts and theres a quote limit. :/

 

Also I need to cook dinner.

[Lenlo]

Eldrick Part 1 of 6, cause theres a god darn quote limit :/

 

 

 

 

 

Your vote on me doesn't bother me at all. 

 

Nor is my vote on Talya a serious one. 

 

You feel antsy, Sili.

 

Any reason for that?

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed that. Watching Sili.

 

 

 

oh hey its started.

a couple days ago i think i wanted to vote john snow, for completely arbitrary reasons, so I'll do that.

[v]John Snow[/v]

Hard claiming Gladiator. So come at me bro.

 

I think I should counter-claim Gladiator now :)

 

 

LOLOL

 

...woah. I think I just channeled Zander

 

Lynch all Hydras!

 

First on the list is [v]Keyboose[/v]

 

 

Hi JS.

 

Anything you'd like to discuss?

Thoughts on the last two pages?

 

Mostly fluff. Lots of votes on you. None for strong reasons, so interesting to keep note of.

 

 

 

Nothing much in here, first few posts of the game really early on.

 

Kinda bummed Kivam posted Loki's wincon. I was gonna ask the thread.

The post I and others have had issue with for awhile now. Still strikes me as wrong, but maybe ill find something later on to change that. Doubt it personally.

 

I haven't seen anyone do anything scummy or towny yet. Tis a nice fence. -nod-

Atleast he admits he is just sitting on the fence. Thats actually a good thing imo, even if its a joke.

 

 

 

Kinda bummed Kivam posted Loki's wincon. I was gonna ask the thread.

Ask the thread what exactly?

What loki's Wincon would be. The response could have been useful

 

Still want an explanation how.

 

Ok. first off, I want to address the attention my Loki wincon comment got. That was completely unexpected. OP of the signup had sample PMs for town and mafia, but not for Loki. I was fully expecting Kivam to keep that info quiet, and was therefore rearing to to talk about it when the game started. And then that was taken away from me, so I commented on it.

 

It didn't even occur to me that Loki would be annoyed that his wincon was revealed, but that makes sense. The fact that you used that wording means it occurred to you, which makes me suspicious.

 

 

 

Does Eld usually ask questions like these?

 

Unfortunately, yes. He does it as either alignment. 

 

If he does that as both alignments then I don't get the two votes on him atm. It's like he is just a scummy person in general.

 

 

I am. It's annoying. I'm working on filtering what I say, to become a competent player, but I have a long way to go.

 

Ok, here's your response, Sili. You have a case against me, namely, as I understand, that I have made one relevant but terrible post so far. You can lynch me over it, but I can assure you that would be a mistake. Or you can consider that the post in question was simply a regrettable error. You have this idea that I posted for the sake of activity, but have you entertained the idea that maybe I thought I saw something? Or would you still like to punish me for carelessness? I can't fight that, of course. So why didn't I respond and continue to talk? Perhaps because I recognized that line of thought was in error and saw no value in continuing. But, you say, there are plenty other things I could have commented on by now? Well then. I don't see them. Would you want to lynch me for not seeing the same things you say you do? Or if they're so clear to you, why not enlighten me? I will freely admit I wasn't paying enough attention, if you show me there's what I should have seen. Hm?

 

I found this line very odd. If you're mafia, this whole speech is pointless because you would say it anyway. If you are town, the bolded seems weird, because you don't know who you are. I think it's supposed to read as you would be a mislynch, but that's not how I see it. It feels like a slip.

 

 

stfu lenore

...Cory...

Well, I'm here, after being drained from extroverting.

A few observations:

Sili seems to get serious way too quickly. That just happened in the last game we were playing in. And you wanna know why? He was distancing from me, who was joke voting.

Possible correlations between Ocicat mistake/joke vote and Sili calling him out on it? Perhaps.

I, for one, don't know how Ocicat plays. I'll defer to Alette when trying to read him, but I prefer to assign null (leaning towards scummy) for anyone I don't know well. Lurking and not posting doesn't seem indicative of alignment, and neither does not knowing who is even playing. I make that mistake a lot. But default: *narrows eyes* Null-scummy until you prove yourselves unblemished.

Areas of confusion: don't get drunk Cory.

Possibilities: Eldrich possible Loki because of his disappointment at Kivam revealing Loki win con on thread-> argument espoused by a few, like John Snow.

Does JS drop the argument because Eldrich is too experienced to make that kind of slip? Hmm. Why the focus on Loki? I would think that scum would be more concerned about eliminating Loki than town, as someone previously mentioned.

^My recap, from what I remember.

 

Loki hinders both sides and also needs to be eliminated for anyone else to win. Both town and mafia should be looking for him. A good example of why has already been mentioned. The doc is all but useless right now.

Bold: Why did you assume this? Second, why did you think the thread would have answers on this? Only Loki would know their wincon if Kiv hadnt posted it and I highly doubt anyone would be stupid enough to just post it. Personally I thought it pretty clear what his would be just from reading the description of how the game would be.

 

Blue: Your suspicious because it occurred to us that a role that relies on misinformation/lack-of-information for everyone but himself, would be annoyed that more information got released than they thought would? Seriously?

 

I meant to put a vote in there....

 

[unvote]

[v]Ocicat[/v]

 

Also, early game Sili came off as really weird to me. It was very different than what I expect from him. The only other time that happened was when he was a cop, but this can't be a similar case, because the cop doesn't know they're a cop. I don't know what to do with this information. I'm glad that he has improved recently, though.

 

Note to Mod: 

Is unvoting required?

Seems like on odd vote switch to me, but I personally dont like to throw my vote around that much. Could just be a style difference.

 

Q: What did you expect of Sili?

 

 

 

Not much to start with, but he left for a day or so and game back with some gameplay. Decent gameplay to, even if I disagree with parts of it. Its more than other people have done in this game. Still cant shake the feeling that some of his stuff is posting just to post, but maybe that will go away in the later sections.

[Lenlo]

Eldrick Part 2 of 6

 

 

As I said, you have improved. I'm starting to get a town vibe from you.

Ok sudden switch from the end of the last part. In the last quote of P1 he said he found Sili weird early on and that he didnt know what to do with the information, but now 3 minutes later after Sili made a joking prod at him for it, he says Sili has a town vibe. It may not seem like much, but it bugs me.

 

Completely irrelevant and not at all game-related, but I'm curious.

 

Sili, how long have you been on DM? You have >6000 posts.

Curious what this is about, but seems not game related.

 

 

 

 

 

I meant to put a vote in there....

 

[unvote]

[v]Ocicat[/v]

 

Also, early game Sili came off as really weird to me. It was very different than what I expect from him. The only other time that happened was when he was a cop, but this can't be a similar case, because the cop doesn't know they're a cop. I don't know what to do with this information. I'm glad that he has improved recently, though.

 

Note to Mod: 

Is unvoting required?

 

Kiv's a JNer, and this is same as JN rules, so mostly likely no. 

 

I don't know JN rules, and it wasn't mentioned one way or the other. I will probably still unvote, cuz it feels cleaner, but I was just wondering if you forgot to, would your new vote not count.

 

I math'd wrong. I meant <6000 posts...

 

Sili...you have me as Meh? Is this payback :p

He has me as heh. I'm not sure how to take that :P

 

 

Incomplete read list:

 

1 Songstress - town 85
2 TinaHel - town 75
3 Leelou - town 78
4 Verbal - haven't read at all
5 Keyboose [keyholder/cory hydra] - indie?
6 Dicetosser - huh
7 Eldrick - heh
8 Taborline (mentored by Yates) - who?
9 Sili - town 99.9999999999
10 Lenlo - town 75
11 Mish - kah
12 Pral - bleh
13 Talya - meh
14 Jon Snow - town 90
15 Ocicat - scum 50
16 Wishleste [wishtree/celeste hydra] - scum 50
17 Sooh - town 80

Hey Sili, can you explain why you have such a strong read on Snow? 90 seems kinda high this early.

 

 

 

Nothing much. Fluff and a simple question to Sili.

 

Also, you have Key as indie. You calling him Loki? And if so, why?

Key is female. Cory is a he though. I think. Good question here though, which was followed by a response from Sili 

 

 

 

Also, you have Key as indie. You calling him Loki? And if so, why?

Cory has not said he is town merely implied. Maybe loki cant lie. ;)

 

Which is crap imo. This right here? Doesnt answer the question well and, even if its a joke, implies something about Loki we as town cant know. Jokey phase of D1 is over, so this feels out of place. Sili y u du dis?

 

That's it for me tonight. Going to bed now. Tel'aran'rhoid is calling me.

Fluff

 

I don't know cory very well (I think this is the first game we actually played together) but it's bugging me that he's refusing to explain why he has a town read on someone. Is it because Sooh is asking about herself?

Question to Cory. Corys a bum. He does what he wants. 

 

 

 

uhuh.



From what I conjecture already, OCicat is one who lurks and keeps notes and irregularly comments. When he does comment, it's often tangential or queer.

Because he is a heteroclitic player, according to you, should I conclude he is not be compelled to respond to pressure? And even though he pushed JS over something really minute, does he not find other topics worthy of being noted? Or, if his vote was made to garner a response, why not follow up on said response and continue to engage the thread?

I checked his account. I know he is around.

If he is not responding to pressure how is one supposed to read him based on an inexistent reaction?

For the record I HATE when people do this. It means nothing! People use it saying "he posted here.." So?? people post in threads other then mafia some even have responsibilitys to do so.

Other people like me leave the DM window open and go to bed so it will show im online but im not active.

Also sometimes a player doesnt post because they have nothing to say! Thats not lurking imo they could be totally upto date its just not interacting. if they only pop in at OPPORTUNE times for them then THATS lurking.

And someone tell me what the Red possibly tells you about alignment? Cause either Town or Scum or 3rd party could do this.



Also because people wanna start posting post counts again Im about to make a point of how that doesnt mean much either

I do this too. I like to remember where I left off when I get back to it.

And I agree. The red says nothing about alignment.

 

Some more posting that imo displays very little content.

 

 

 

I don't think scum would pre chat if it was open for 4 days. Then again i'm not sure how Kiv mods.

Why wouldnt they?? They want to win and as discussed above thats a huge advantage. This feels off like ure trying to nmip this thought in the bud

Ooh. Good point.

 

Good point? Where? I wish you were more specific man, or added some thoughts to things. Cause these just keep coming off as #solving without doing anything.

 

 

 

Some good, some bad. Brought my attention to something Sili said earlier which I had missed. Still not feeling great about Eldrick, but now its for more than just the Loki post. His general gameplay has felt lacking to me.

[Lenlo]

Eldrick Part 3 of 6

 

 

 

 

Ok, here's your response, Sili. You have a case against me, namely, as I understand, that I have made one relevant but terrible post so far. You can lynch me over it, but I can assure you that would be a mistake. Or you can consider that the post in question was simply a regrettable error. You have this idea that I posted for the sake of activity, but have you entertained the idea that maybe I thought I saw something? Or would you still like to punish me for carelessness? I can't fight that, of course. So why didn't I respond and continue to talk? Perhaps because I recognized that line of thought was in error and saw no value in continuing. But, you say, there are plenty other things I could have commented on by now? Well then. I don't see them. Would you want to lynch me for not seeing the same things you say you do? Or if they're so clear to you, why not enlighten me? I will freely admit I wasn't paying enough attention, if you show me there's what I should have seen. Hm?

I found this line very odd. If you're mafia, this whole speech is pointless because you would say it anyway. If you are town, the bolded seems weird, because you don't know who you are. I think it's supposed to read as you would be a mislynch, but that's not how I see it. It feels like a slip.

 

If you are town, the bolded seems weird, because why shouldn't I know my alignment? Or are you indeed saying a mislynch only matters if it's on a PR?

 

Of course any mislynch is bad. I could be reading into something that isn't there. It just caught my attention so I brought it up. I'd like to know what other people think about it.

 

Getting other peoples thoughts, fine. Ok.
 

 

Sili Quirrels 113 cory caboose 72 John Snow 58 Leelou 45 Lenlo 42 Sooh 40 Talya 33 Celeste 27 Verbal32 23 Eldrick4221 17 dicetosser1 16 Songstress 14 Taborline 14 keyholder21 13 wish-tree 12 Kivam 11 Ocicat 9 Misheru 8 Shad_ 6 TinaHel 4 Nolder 1 Pralaya 1


I am town. Eat it.

...

Using top post count as a reason to be town is horrible, and you should feel bad.

 

Ouch. Angry fluff
 

 

Tab ISO P2/2, I need another rhyme other than electric boogaloo.
 

-snip-

All in all I dont feel to bad about Tab. Im not ruling her out, but for D1 so far I feel comfortable looking else where for scum/Loki.

For an update on my vote: I still cant get over the Eld thing. Nothing hes said so far has made me go "Oh yeah, theres someone better to be voting today." and that worries me. I feel like that should have been one of the first things he answered when he came back. So yeah im comfortable where I am.

 

...it was. It was the first part of that post when I came back.

 

Oh you mean post #417? Cause that answers nothing. Lets look at this again together shall we?
 

Ok. first off, I want to address the attention my Loki wincon comment got. That was completely unexpected. OP of the signup had sample PMs for town and mafia, but not for Loki. I was fully expecting Kivam to keep that info quiet, and was therefore rearing to to talk about it when the game started. And then that was taken away from me, so I commented on it.

It didn't even occur to me that Loki would be annoyed that his wincon was revealed, but that makes sense. The fact that you used that wording means it occurred to you, which makes me suspicious.

 This is it. This is your answer. And I have found it wanting. Didnt occur to you? Think harder. Swapping the blame/suspicion to me? Try harder. Thinking you can know what Kivam will and will not do? Foolish man.

 

Seriously though, this doesnt answer much. Does anyone disagree with me on this?

 

 

And I frankly don't care that you don't feel better about it. As I mentioned, I'm suspicious of you because of your reasoning.

 Crappy reason to be suspicious, but alright. I kinda like that hes fighting back here, but I dont command the presence some of the other players here do so I cant use that to gauge someone as well as they can.
 

 

Snow your the 2nd person to say that Eld OBVIOUSLY meant PRS thing is if thats what he meant?? Then thats what he should have said.

And you seem to get the only one confused by it. Apparently what I said was sufficient.

 

 No it wasnt. Im with Dice here, you should be clear. Being clear is the best thing, cause clouding up your own posts just hurts town.
 

 

 

 

Sili Quirrels 113 cory caboose 72 John Snow 58 Leelou 45 Lenlo 42 Sooh 40 Talya 33 Celeste 27 Verbal32 23 Eldrick4221 17 dicetosser1 16 Songstress 14 Taborline 14 keyholder21 13 wish-tree 12 Kivam 11 Ocicat 9 Misheru 8 Shad_ 6 TinaHel 4 Nolder 1 Pralaya 1


I am town. Eat it.

...

Using top post count as a reason to be town is horrible, and you should feel bad.

 

Facepqlm.

 

Hi. I'm eldrick. I post before I finish reading. Disregard this, cuz as you said it was ribbing at dice.

 

 Back track harder.
 

Someone asked. I'm answering.

My strategy:

I try to look at things that seem to be overlooked by everyone else. I have a stream of consciousness style of posting. I tend to just say what I think. This has the side effect of what I say sounding "weird", but it's just part of how I play. I'm trying to get better.

 I get that. I do. But its your job to make that stream of consciousness legible to the rest of us. 
 

 

ROSTER:
 
1 Songstress
2 TinaHel
3 Leelou
4 Verbal
5 Keyboose [keyholder/cory hydra]
6 Dicetosser
7 Eldrick
8 Taborline (mentored by Yates)
9 Sili
10 Lenlo
11 Mish
12 Pral
13 Talya
14 Jon Snow
15 Ocicat
16 Wishleste [wishtree/celeste hydra]
17 Sooh

 
I'm gonna keep in mind what Cory said about Sooh. The only game I remember playing with her when she was scum, she was inactive due to RL issues. I don't know how to properly read her yet.
 
I've played a decent number of games with Sili. I'm usually right about his alignment, but then again he's usually town. I'm not one that gets caught up with his weirdness and thinks he's scum when he's not. The only game I can remember him being scum was the SW game when he was a traitor, and didn't know it til it happened. That was a weird dynamic, and not a good basis on reading.
 
Lenlo and Cat have Loki equity as I have already mentioned. Could easily be wrong about both of them, but being as I haven't seen anything scummy, this is where I'm going for now.
 
Everyone else is strictly null so far. It takes a while for be to get town reads, and several people don't have much content to base reads off of yet.
 
(P.S. Still wanna lynch hyrdas, but that's not enough reason to do so)

 

Bold: Dont like this. This sentence might as well not be in this post. You are usually right about his alignment? Oh good. But hes usually town? So are you just getting lucky? Why include this?

 

Dont get caught up in his weirdness? What weirdness? And apparently the only game youve been in where SIli was scum was a game where he tricked you until it was to late, so maybe you just default town read him?

 

Blue: Loki Equity? I want this explained. If your gonna point a finger back it up with more than just a sentence.

 

 

 

Still fine with my vote so far. As I read I just start to feel worse and worse about him. Id like other people to read and see what they think, so I can see if I might be right or if I am just stuck in a tunnel and charging forward.

[Lenlo]

Eldrick Part 5 of 6

 

 

 

Mish I remember one post that I really thought was villagery from Eldrick and it actually wasn't a great post just something I thought he wouldn't think as a wolf (lol)

Is this what you have in your head? I haven't reached it on notepad yet but I remember it distinctly

I don't tend to have very many "good posts" so I'm glad you're figuring it out through other means.

Out of curiosity, which post was it? Just like to know how your brain works a little. What catches your attention.

 

I would like to know which post this was as well, because while he has had some good ones, nothing stands out to me as "TOWN". Granted nothing stands out as "SCUM" or "LOKI" either, but the general feel ive been getting is either non-town or very poor town

 

 

-snip-

 

Ok, I see a decent case, and I'm getting bored. Vote: Talya​, ​​although anyone on Sili's list is fair game​.

 

I'm having trouble with this post. Why is Sili's list fair game to you? Why are you justifying who to lynch by someone else's list?

 

 

 

Or indeed liking something just because I agree with the points that are made in it, which I realise is what I've just done

There's nothing wrong with liking something because you agree with the points. That's logical. Don't let it affect your view of the speaker's alignment by itself, though.

 

Oh hey eldrick.

 

I know you won't change your vote cause I tell you this, but it's still laughable. It makes me suspicious of you the longer you keep it on me because you got no good reason for it other than vote hopping which is what I do every game (just ask cory!) and I am not seeing much progress on your read either. You're in limbo, floating.

 

 

Are you saying I can't leave my vote on who I think is the best choice before I go to bed, and then to work?

 

My reason for voting you is a valid one. I have been treated as scum for the same reason I am treating you as scum. For changing my vote frequently. Is this not a valid reason?

 

FWIW Cat is now scummier than you are, so that's where I'm going. This doesn't clear you, and if you are town, you have some work to convince me.

 

[unvote]

[v]Cat[/v]

 

@ Ocicat Please let me know if Cat is an acceptable nickname for you. I feel it fits.

 

On a side note, I'm getting really annoyed by these "For X's eyes only" spoilers. Can we please stop?

 

Good callout on Cats list. I find it odd that cat is using it to justify his own vote, so I am completely on board with this vote switch. Nothing wrong with it

 

To Lenlo:

 

I'm not gonna go back and MQ or get the post number. If you really care enough, you can ISO me. My comp is being really sluggish right now, so I'm going to recall from memory.

 

I made the comment about being disappointed about Kivam revealing Loki's wincon. I was expecting it to not be revealed, being he listed mafia and town, but not Loki's, in the signup thread.

 

You read what I said and took it as annoyance that Loki's wincon was public knowledge. The reason I am suspicious of you is because of your view of annoyance. I hadn't even considered Loki's POV in the matter. The fact that you did makes me question if you are Loki.

Still pretty crap reasoning here imo. And it really wasnt that hard to find. 

 

 

 

 

You better not have opened the spoiler...

I haven't opened most of the spoilers lol. Spoilers are annoying.

 

I took a stab at what you said by Sooh's response, though.

 

Lol. No I'm not Loki. And I never have strong reads Day 1. I don't know how other people can.

also, how the heck is Loki not a real opponent? Both Loki AND mafia have to go down for us to win. And I honestly think Loki will be the harder one to nab.

You're doing a great job of mamking me feel better about you.

I really wish more than you were on when I am. I feel like you're the only one I'm talking to.

 

 

Nothing of substance in these imo

 

JS, I recall you saying we haven't interacted yet. Let's interact.

 

What are your thoughts on the game so far? Who is town or scum, and why? What has caught your attention?

Getting someones thoughts. Ok, so hes engaging people. Not really generating content of his own though.

 

 

 

So I am starting to feel like I have made a decision as to his alignment and am having trouble getting past it by this point. I feel like it has colored alot of my comments on his posts, so take my commentary with that grain of salt and maybe give me your thoughts to.

 

Cause atm I cant see him being town, or atleast not a town worth not lynching today for the information we might get.

[Lenlo]

Eldrick Part 6 of 6

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Eldrick does feel somewhat different this game. I can't point out anything specific as of right now since I'm at work, but the thought just struck me. I'll try to go back and look when I get home today.

I agree here, he usually reminds me of an eager puppy, they get excited and gives lots of wees and poos all over the place as well as some love. He isn't coming across like that here.

I actually like what I see here more, after reading his last few posts. Maybe the puppy is growing up? (PS Eld, I love puppies so didn't mean anything rude by it)

I'm trying to play better. I'm trying to not be the stream of thought I was before. So yes, it will come off as different. Hopefully in a good way.

 

 

 

<snip>

Note though, we did interact before that. Also, you guys need to stop holding the amount we interact as a read. Some days other things are going on and we don't interact that much on thread.

I agree. I can't even imagine how annoying it is to always be read based on the actions of another. I've never been a fan of when people do that.
<snip>
 

It's annoying. Let's say one of us is busy and just posts but we don't interact. Then OMG we must both be scum. I'll actually save my rant for after the game.

 

FWIW I don't do this to you guys. I go by what you say, not how you two interact with each other.

Yay for spoiler fail.

 

When I first read the Sili/Sooh interaction, I didn't think anything of it. I don't know what game is being referenced. I don't know what the residual vote is mentioning.

 

I didn't have an issue with how Sili handled the situation. It read to me as someone that had figured out the meaning to what was said.

 

I could, of course, be wrong here, but I don't think it was staged.

Oh. You spelled spoiler wrong. That's why.

Well I'm off to bed now.

 

I'm looking forward to Wednesday, when I can sit down and reread and take notes. Of course the game started right after my weekend.

 

 

Nothing of interest in there imo. Fluff or casual conversation.

 

 

 

 

Sooooo yeah. Im still content on Eldrick and I have a day and a half to move if needed.

 

Im gonna go cook a dinner omelette now.

[Lenlo]

Son of a... 4 got lost somewhere. Let me see if I can find it.

[Lenlo]

FOUND IT! OMELETTE TIME!

 

Read this after 3 and before 5. You know how to count, im sure.

 

Eldrick Part 4 of 6

 

 

 

 

 

You know it hurts when someone calls you weird? It's only human.

I give up. No idea why you said this.

 

 

[v]Mish[/v]

How many times have you vote-hopped now?
Are you just looking for something to stick?

 

 

 

You know it hurts when someone calls you weird? It's only human.

I give up. No idea why you said this.

I found it. You're referring to my read on your meta. Not calling you weird. Calling your playstyle weird. Sorry for the cobfusion. Not meant to hurt feelings.

 

I also disagree with the statement, fwiw. I'm weird and proud of it. Normal is boring.

 

 

Nothing much here imo. Just some messing around and chatting with Sili.

 

 

If Sili is scum, this could be useful information to look at. Who he voted, who he didn't vote, and why...so early in the game, his vote hop list is surprisingly long.

 

John Snow - wanted to before game started, for aribtrary reasons

Lenlo - Meant instead of John Snow

Unvote - Bored of Lenlo

Sooh -  calling residual vote 'sinister'

Unvote - After Sooh's line was explained

Lenlo - No further reasoning

Unvotes - considering it a town/town convo (don't remember offhand which convo he's referring to. pulling this list from ISO)

Cat - Explains later because "his first game related post came after an hour of floating, was completely blogus, and felt very obligatory on his part, as though it was made simply because he thought it should be."

Dice - Cuz he's only posting fluff

Unvote - cuz he's 'leveling'

Mish - No reason so far. Hasn't even mentioned Mish yet.

 

Hasn't voted yet:

Tress, Tina, Leelou, Verb, Keyboose, Eldrick, Taborline, Pral, Talya, Wishleste

 

Also, there was the comment about having mastered tone as scum. This was just weird, as people mentioned.

 

That townie vibe I was getting before. It's cuz you are putting effort into solving the game. But this vote hopping is getting under my skin, and I'm not feeling town from you anymore.

 

[unvote]

[v]Sili[/v]

 

Switchs his read on Sili again, though its been a day and a fair amount had happened between now and then. Thats fine. I like how hes one of the few people questioning Sili's alignment. Everyone else just seems to be locking him in as town, and while I also get a town vibe from him, I am not even close to clearing him. Specially not on D1.

 

I have read the thread. Admittedly part of it was rushed, and I will reread. I did go over you ISO, though, because I have noticed to voted a lot of people so far.

 

Even if vote-hopping is the wrong term, you have changed your votes a lot this game, and we are only what..2 days in?

Has a point

 

 

 

I haven't seen anyone do anything scummy or towny yet. Tis a nice fence. -nod-

What do you mean by scummy here?

 

Something that warrants voting them. Inconsistencies, erratic behavior, stuff like that.

 

Just answering a question

 

It still feels like you're just looking for any train to build. I'm still happy with where my vote is.

 

And I'm gonna go wind down for bed now. Night.

Alright

 

 

 

 

If you are a villager one major suggestion I would make to how you approach reading players is not to get seduced by long posts. I especially see this at DM, where there will be heat on a player and they will post a big catch-up / summary post of thoughts and it will be long and people will skim over it, see that it talks about the game and players, and go "oh they made a big post, that's villagery".

I second this. There have been numerous games where as scum I would get away with doing absolutely nothing by just posting a massive catchup/summary post and people would clear me for like a day or two just on that. And I say just on that, because I really did jack all in a number of those games.

Or indeed liking something just because I agree with the points that are made in it, which I realise is what I've just done.

There's nothing wrong with liking something because you agree with the points. That's logical. Don't let it affect your view of the speaker's alignment by itself, though.

 

Im still alittle confused what all happened here, not with Eldrick but with Tam. I dunno where her part of the post came from. Whatever though.

 

 

 

Like how hes questioning some things, but still not enough to knock him out of my WtL pile. The only alternative to him I would accept so far today would be either Pral or Tina if only to get rid of someone inactive.

[Kivam]

 

VOTE COUNT

 

Eldrick (1) - Lenlo

Ocicat (3) - Tina, Dice, Eldrick

Talya (2) - WishLESTE, Ocicat

Pral (2) - KeyBOOSE, Leelou

WishLeste (1) - Talya

 

Not voting (8): Songstress, Sili,  Verbal, Taborline, Pralaya, Sooh, John Snow, Mish

 

9 to lynch

 

DEADLINE IS NOON EASTERN (GMT - 4) ON WEDNESDAY. No Majority = No lynch

 

 

I have an auction draft starting at 8pm (15 minutes), so glgl until I get back in 3+ hours

 

[michellem]

The more I think about it, the worse I feel about Oci and Wisheste. In hindsight Celeste randomly calling me out feels weird... It wouldn't have bothered me if it was a player that was used to playing with me. But I'd already reminded people in the thread I wasn't gonna be on my normal activity this weekend. Makes it seem like she didn't really read my post. It was weird. That combined with she trying to make it seem like I said something I didn't... I feel very uncomfortable about her now.

 

Then with Oci several times linking me and Celeste, and him defending them, it makes it seem to me like they are mafia together, and he's setting me up to look bad if they get lynched.

 

I will refer you to the post Tina's already made instead of pulling the same quotes: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95348-ragnarok-game-thread-d1/?p=3538339

 

This does not read like town and town to me. It's either mafia buddies, or one mafia one Loki. But I'm thinking buddies.

 

Oci is the one that makes me feel most iffy for trying to tie me and Celeste together like that, so that's where my vote will go atm. But I'm more than willing to switch to Wisheste too.

 

[v] Oci[/v]

[wish-tree]

The more I think about it, the worse I feel about Oci and Wisheste. In hindsight Celeste randomly calling me out feels weird... It wouldn't have bothered me if it was a player that was used to playing with me. But I'd already reminded people in the thread I wasn't gonna be on my normal activity this weekend. Makes it seem like she didn't really read my post. It was weird. That combined with she trying to make it seem like I said something I didn't... I feel very uncomfortable about her now.

 

Then with Oci several times linking me and Celeste, and him defending them, it makes it seem to me like they are mafia together, and he's setting me up to look bad if they get lynched.

 

I will refer you to the post Tina's already made instead of pulling the same quotes: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95348-ragnarok-game-thread-d1/?p=3538339

 

This does not read like town and town to me. It's either mafia buddies, or one mafia one Loki. But I'm thinking buddies.

 

Oci is the one that makes me feel most iffy for trying to tie me and Celeste together like that, so that's where my vote will go atm. But I'm more than willing to switch to Wisheste too.

 

[v] Oci[/v]

???

If we're scum buddies <3 (Oci and Celeste/moi), then why would you look bad if we get lynched? Wouldn't it give you town credit if you flip us and we're scum?

 

Also, hola. First day of classes over. I got some blisters from wearing slightly uncomfortable shoes. :/

 

Celeste has mod duties elsewhere, so it's my job to post atm. Sorry for being MIA. RL, etc.

[wish-tree]

Yo. My bunions(?) hurt, and I don't get why Celeste voted Talya.

 

I don't get these gut feels.

Why do you think Celeste voted you, Talya?

[wish-tree]

I'm liking this Lenlo. Solid townie read for me.

 

Let me interact with this mister. Last game he died pretty early.

 

Coming up, quoting some of your posts. Look forward to it.

[wish-tree]

Eldrick Part 3 of 6

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, here's your response, Sili. You have a case against me, namely, as I understand, that I have made one relevant but terrible post so far. You can lynch me over it, but I can assure you that would be a mistake. Or you can consider that the post in question was simply a regrettable error. You have this idea that I posted for the sake of activity, but have you entertained the idea that maybe I thought I saw something? Or would you still like to punish me for carelessness? I can't fight that, of course. So why didn't I respond and continue to talk? Perhaps because I recognized that line of thought was in error and saw no value in continuing. But, you say, there are plenty other things I could have commented on by now? Well then. I don't see them. Would you want to lynch me for not seeing the same things you say you do? Or if they're so clear to you, why not enlighten me? I will freely admit I wasn't paying enough attention, if you show me there's what I should have seen. Hm?

I found this line very odd. If you're mafia, this whole speech is pointless because you would say it anyway. If you are town, the bolded seems weird, because you don't know who you are. I think it's supposed to read as you would be a mislynch, but that's not how I see it. It feels like a slip.

 

If you are town, the bolded seems weird, because why shouldn't I know my alignment? Or are you indeed saying a mislynch only matters if it's on a PR?

 

Of course any mislynch is bad. I could be reading into something that isn't there. It just caught my attention so I brought it up. I'd like to know what other people think about it.

 

Getting other peoples thoughts, fine. Ok.

 

 

Sili Quirrels 113 cory caboose 72 John Snow 58 Leelou 45 Lenlo 42 Sooh 40 Talya 33 Celeste 27 Verbal32 23 Eldrick4221 17 dicetosser1 16 Songstress 14 Taborline 14 keyholder21 13 wish-tree 12 Kivam 11 Ocicat 9 Misheru 8 Shad_ 6 TinaHel 4 Nolder 1 Pralaya 1

 

 

I am town. Eat it.

...

 

Using top post count as a reason to be town is horrible, and you should feel bad.

 

Ouch. Angry fluff

 

 

Tab ISO P2/2, I need another rhyme other than electric boogaloo.

 

-snip-

All in all I dont feel to bad about Tab. Im not ruling her out, but for D1 so far I feel comfortable looking else where for scum/Loki.

 

For an update on my vote: I still cant get over the Eld thing. Nothing hes said so far has made me go "Oh yeah, theres someone better to be voting today." and that worries me. I feel like that should have been one of the first things he answered when he came back. So yeah im comfortable where I am.

 

...it was. It was the first part of that post when I came back.

 

Oh you mean post #417? Cause that answers nothing. Lets look at this again together shall we?

 

Ok. first off, I want to address the attention my Loki wincon comment got. That was completely unexpected. OP of the signup had sample PMs for town and mafia, but not for Loki. I was fully expecting Kivam to keep that info quiet, and was therefore rearing to to talk about it when the game started. And then that was taken away from me, so I commented on it.

 

It didn't even occur to me that Loki would be annoyed that his wincon was revealed, but that makes sense. The fact that you used that wording means it occurred to you, which makes me suspicious.

 This is it. This is your answer. And I have found it wanting. Didnt occur to you? Think harder. Swapping the blame/suspicion to me? Try harder. Thinking you can know what Kivam will and will not do? Foolish man.

 

Seriously though, this doesnt answer much. Does anyone disagree with me on this?

 

 

And I frankly don't care that you don't feel better about it. As I mentioned, I'm suspicious of you because of your reasoning.

 Crappy reason to be suspicious, but alright. I kinda like that hes fighting back here, but I dont command the presence some of the other players here do so I cant use that to gauge someone as well as they can.

 

 

Snow your the 2nd person to say that Eld OBVIOUSLY meant PRS thing is if thats what he meant?? Then thats what he should have said.

And you seem to get the only one confused by it. Apparently what I said was sufficient.

 

 No it wasnt. Im with Dice here, you should be clear. Being clear is the best thing, cause clouding up your own posts just hurts town.

 

 

 

 

Sili Quirrels 113 cory caboose 72 John Snow 58 Leelou 45 Lenlo 42 Sooh 40 Talya 33 Celeste 27 Verbal32 23 Eldrick4221 17 dicetosser1 16 Songstress 14 Taborline 14 keyholder21 13 wish-tree 12 Kivam 11 Ocicat 9 Misheru 8 Shad_ 6 TinaHel 4 Nolder 1 Pralaya 1

 

 

I am town. Eat it.

...

 

Using top post count as a reason to be town is horrible, and you should feel bad.

 

Facepqlm.

 

Hi. I'm eldrick. I post before I finish reading. Disregard this, cuz as you said it was ribbing at dice.

 

 Back track harder.

 

Someone asked. I'm answering.

 

My strategy:

 

I try to look at things that seem to be overlooked by everyone else. I have a stream of consciousness style of posting. I tend to just say what I think. This has the side effect of what I say sounding "weird", but it's just part of how I play. I'm trying to get better.

 I get that. I do. But its your job to make that stream of consciousness legible to the rest of us. 

 

 

ROSTER:

 

1 Songstress

2 TinaHel

3 Leelou

4 Verbal

5 Keyboose [keyholder/cory hydra]

6 Dicetosser

7 Eldrick

8 Taborline (mentored by Yates)

9 Sili

10 Lenlo

11 Mish

12 Pral

13 Talya

14 Jon Snow

15 Ocicat

16 Wishleste [wishtree/celeste hydra]

17 Sooh

 

I'm gonna keep in mind what Cory said about Sooh. The only game I remember playing with her when she was scum, she was inactive due to RL issues. I don't know how to properly read her yet.

 

I've played a decent number of games with Sili. I'm usually right about his alignment, but then again he's usually town. I'm not one that gets caught up with his weirdness and thinks he's scum when he's not. The only game I can remember him being scum was the SW game when he was a traitor, and didn't know it til it happened. That was a weird dynamic, and not a good basis on reading.

 

Lenlo and Cat have Loki equity as I have already mentioned. Could easily be wrong about both of them, but being as I haven't seen anything scummy, this is where I'm going for now.

 

Everyone else is strictly null so far. It takes a while for be to get town reads, and several people don't have much content to base reads off of yet.

 

(P.S. Still wanna lynch hyrdas, but that's not enough reason to do so)

 

Bold: Dont like this. This sentence might as well not be in this post. You are usually right about his alignment? Oh good. But hes usually town? So are you just getting lucky? Why include this?

 

Dont get caught up in his weirdness? What weirdness? And apparently the only game youve been in where SIli was scum was a game where he tricked you until it was to late, so maybe you just default town read him?

 

Blue: Loki Equity? I want this explained. If your gonna point a finger back it up with more than just a sentence.

 

 

 

Still fine with my vote so far. As I read I just start to feel worse and worse about him. Id like other people to read and see what they think, so I can see if I might be right or if I am just stuck in a tunnel and charging forward.

My thoughts on what happened (your analysis):

 

I'm not convinced that Eldrick is Loki, because I'm not sure that he'd make a slip this obvious. He's been under fire for this already, and I don't know if he'd risk that.

 

It is possible that Eldrick wanted to focus more on the game-solving element of Mafia, and was disappointed that Kivam took that away from him. Why would he want to focus more on that? Idk, personal preference?

 

I think that people catching onto this seeming slip held onto it and tunneled Eldrick. Now, if Eldrick had reacted differently to the tunneling, perhaps I would have been against it, but there are some interesting results from putting Eldrick in between a rock and a hard place.

 

1. Eldrick starts casting shade on other people being possible Lokis.

2. Eldrick is iffy about many people, besides the people he thinks are possible Lokis (and even those, says he could be wrong. Indecisive, very). Gives them a solid null. Gives reasons why he doesn't know how to read people (lack of activity, just doesn't know how to read them, not enough info, etc.).

3. Eldrick responds to one of my posts ((I'll quote it below) (in which I said it wasn't important for town to focus on Loki)) saying that it's imperative to focus on Loki. I've noticed that besides the Loki reads, he hasn't tried to Mafia hunt.

 

tldr; These three things combined make Eldrick look scummy, that's for sure. I'm willing to put him in my pile of scumz. Don't think he's Loki.

 

Ok. first off, I want to address the attention my Loki wincon comment got. That was completely unexpected. OP of the signup had sample PMs for town and mafia, but not for Loki. I was fully expecting Kivam to keep that info quiet, and was therefore rearing to to talk about it when the game started. And then that was taken away from me, so I commented on it.

 

It didn't even occur to me that Loki would be annoyed that his wincon was revealed, but that makes sense. The fact that you used that wording means it occurred to you, which makes me suspicious.

 

 

 

Does Eld usually ask questions like these?

 

Unfortunately, yes. He does it as either alignment. 

 

If he does that as both alignments then I don't get the two votes on him atm. It's like he is just a scummy person in general.

 

 

I am. It's annoying. I'm working on filtering what I say, to become a competent player, but I have a long way to go.

 

Ok, here's your response, Sili. You have a case against me, namely, as I understand, that I have made one relevant but terrible post so far. You can lynch me over it, but I can assure you that would be a mistake. Or you can consider that the post in question was simply a regrettable error. You have this idea that I posted for the sake of activity, but have you entertained the idea that maybe I thought I saw something? Or would you still like to punish me for carelessness? I can't fight that, of course. So why didn't I respond and continue to talk? Perhaps because I recognized that line of thought was in error and saw no value in continuing. But, you say, there are plenty other things I could have commented on by now? Well then. I don't see them. Would you want to lynch me for not seeing the same things you say you do? Or if they're so clear to you, why not enlighten me? I will freely admit I wasn't paying enough attention, if you show me there's what I should have seen. Hm?

 

I found this line very odd. If you're mafia, this whole speech is pointless because you would say it anyway. If you are town, the bolded seems weird, because you don't know who you are. I think it's supposed to read as you would be a mislynch, but that's not how I see it. It feels like a slip.

 

 

stfu lenore

...Cory...

 

Well, I'm here, after being drained from extroverting.

 

A few observations:

 

Sili seems to get serious way too quickly. That just happened in the last game we were playing in. And you wanna know why? He was distancing from me, who was joke voting.

 

Possible correlations between Ocicat mistake/joke vote and Sili calling him out on it? Perhaps.

 

I, for one, don't know how Ocicat plays. I'll defer to Alette when trying to read him, but I prefer to assign null (leaning towards scummy) for anyone I don't know well. Lurking and not posting doesn't seem indicative of alignment, and neither does not knowing who is even playing. I make that mistake a lot. But default: *narrows eyes* Null-scummy until you prove yourselves unblemished.

 

Areas of confusion: don't get drunk Cory.

 

Possibilities: Eldrich possible Loki because of his disappointment at Kivam revealing Loki win con on thread-> argument espoused by a few, like John Snow.

 

Does JS drop the argument because Eldrich is too experienced to make that kind of slip? Hmm. Why the focus on Loki? I would think that scum would be more concerned about eliminating Loki than town, as someone previously mentioned.

 

^My recap, from what I remember.

 

Loki hinders both sides and also needs to be eliminated for anyone else to win. Both town and mafia should be looking for him. A good example of why has already been mentioned. The doc is all but useless right now.

 

**Also, interesting thing. JS accuses me of misrepping him. Idk how I did that. I'm pretty sure that JS dropped the argument because of Eldrick's levels of experience.

[wish-tree]

 

 

[v]Pral[/v]

Been patient, losing patience

 

Why losing patience?  You've played with Pral enough to know that he very rarely posts at all on Day 1 as either alignment.

A lot of people have been villagery which forces him lower

 

Know he's inactive a great deal but that doesn't mean he's any more likely to be a villager

 

It's been four days and I'd rather kill dead weight with wolf equity than anyone else aorn

 

Is there a post requirement per day? Can we get Kivam to prod Pral?

[wish-tree]

@ Verb - I already explained it. She put it on record that she did not believe the mafia were able to talk for the four days between the role PM's going out and the game starting. I don't get why it would be logical to assume someone else is mafia because they did think that.

 

As for the teaming up as scum, it's true that you don't typically do that. In fact, your on-thread interactions are usually incredibly awkward when you're both mafia, and you're both well aware of it. Leelou seems to be quite sensitive about people using your on-thread interactions to read the two of you, so it's probably best if you don't try to appeal to that meta.

 

I'm not saying I am sold on you guys both being mafia, or even either of you. As I said, I need to finish rereading, and I wanted to put what I had so far out there so people can see what my current thought process looks like.

 

I assume this is about Celeste. She assumes things all the time (no parallel structure intended).

 

Interesting. We're looking at Leelou and Verb interaction to figure out who is scum?

 

Meta reads, I suppose. I think I'll stay away from this ship until one of the pair is flipped. Going to read some more posts.

 

 

 

@ Verb - I already explained it. She put it on record that she did not believe the mafia were able to talk for the four days between the role PM's going out and the game starting. I don't get why it would be logical to assume someone else is mafia because they did think that.

 

As for the teaming up as scum, it's true that you don't typically do that. In fact, your on-thread interactions are usually incredibly awkward when you're both mafia, and you're both well aware of it. Leelou seems to be quite sensitive about people using your on-thread interactions to read the two of you, so it's probably best if you don't try to appeal to that meta.

 

I'm not saying I am sold on you guys both being mafia, or even either of you. As I said, I need to finish rereading, and I wanted to put what I had so far out there so people can see what my current thought process looks like.

 

I'm not appealing to meta - I did say we are either both town or one of us is scum.  It is highly unlikely, due to that meta, that we would be this good in pulling off the Verbal/Leelou scum partners interaction.  We're both pretty ok at this game, but by god do we royally suck at being scum teammates, heh.

 

I'm leaving in the option that one of us could be scum.  It ain't me, but I don't see anything yet from Leelou to think it is her, either.  So that leaves the most likely scenario of us both being town (I'll go with that for now).

 

 

Sorry, don't understand why this isn't an appeal to meta, especially the part I underlined for you.

 

Besides that, I'll buy what you and Tress and the others say about the meta (but don't deny that it isn't meta if it is?).

[wish-tree]

Yo...

Is anyone even here? I'm feeling lonely :/

[Lenlo]

I'm liking this Lenlo. Solid townie read for me.

 

Let me interact with this mister. Last game he died pretty early.

 

Coming up, quoting some of your posts. Look forward to it.

Last game made me feel really bad, cause I know I played like crap and in general let people down. Especially after being gone for so long. Its why I decided to quit being a DM jester from then on. 

[wish-tree]

 

I'm liking this Lenlo. Solid townie read for me.

 

Let me interact with this mister. Last game he died pretty early.

 

Coming up, quoting some of your posts. Look forward to it.

Last game made me feel really bad, cause I know I played like crap and in general let people down. Especially after being gone for so long. Its why I decided to quit being a DM jester from then on. 

 

*really happy*

It's alive!

 

Hi. :)

[Lenlo]

Heres the thing. Im sold on Eldrick being Loki. That stopped awhile ago. But I wanted keep pushing and pushing at him with it and see what happened. That ended up putting him in my Not Town pile. If he flips Loki ill be happy but surprised. If he flips scum ill be happy and not so surprised.

[Lenlo]

Im not sold*

[Celeste]

*snipped*

 

Also Celeste: I would prefer if you went back and figured out wich post you tried to say it was me who had made. I don't like that you don't double check your facts before stating someone said something. It doesn't sit well with me that you tried to shove an opinion on me I never made.

I thought it was you and with no post quote system here it makes it harder to look for facts. I will try and find it but it's going to take me a while. 

[Lenlo]

 

 

I'm liking this Lenlo. Solid townie read for me.

 

Let me interact with this mister. Last game he died pretty early.

 

Coming up, quoting some of your posts. Look forward to it.

Last game made me feel really bad, cause I know I played like crap and in general let people down. Especially after being gone for so long. Its why I decided to quit being a DM jester from then on. 

 

*really happy*

It's alive!

 

Hi. :)

 

Sup. My omelette tasted good. Id post pics but I ate it before I thought to take a picture.

[wish-tree]

 

*snipped*

 

Also Celeste: I would prefer if you went back and figured out wich post you tried to say it was me who had made. I don't like that you don't double check your facts before stating someone said something. It doesn't sit well with me that you tried to shove an opinion on me I never made.

I thought it was you and with no post quote system here it makes it harder to look for facts. I will try and find it but it's going to take me a while. 

 

Just open up multiple tabs ;) That's what I do.