A Tale of Middle Earth: Game OVER

[Askthepizzaguy]

Are you going to ignore me again, Pizza?

 

...

 

Look at the timestamps and tell me if you're being reasonable.

[Andrej]

I've been reading back from around pg 65 and I think there is some good content there.

 

I like Eldrick, Alot and Tayla's posts specifically.

 

I don't like Krak's posts on pg 66.

 

Come fight me Krak. Don't think I'm going to let you vote me and call me scum and go uncontested with your "tone" read. Make me believe you're actually suspicious or I will assume you are a wolf hoping you'd be able to stream roll me from what happened on D1.

[Askthepizzaguy]

What do you like about either Eldrick or Tayla's posts, and why don't you like Krak?

[Eldrick4221]

 

@ Pizza

 

I now realize that I thought your reaction to Sili's comment about how you are more careful as a wolf was taken out of context. It doesn't sound as bad when given the proper light.

 

That being said, I do want to know your thought process on why you wouldn't vote the person to intend to vote, and still question other people.

 

Eldrick, you have impeccable timing. Yours were the questions I saw while catching up that I felt needed a response.

 

Early read on someone being scum probably because they were behaving differently, they had a knowledge role which can cause folks to behave differently.

 

After leaving suspicion on him I saw what I felt was better day one reasons to vote for you. Returning to the original suspect became less and less valid, to me, and that's before the mason-ish behavior.

 

Then you basically began questioning why I wasn't following up on him, while my vote was on you, it made it seem to me like you were attacking me for consistency reasons (wolfy process, villagers understand basic inconsistency) and also trying to get my vote off of you.

 

I didn't think your questioning of me was legitimate, and I thought it would be telling to see if anyone took sides in our dispute.

 

I didn't see a whole lot of support for or against either of our positions. Either we have some scumbags who are good about not flinching or we have a villager villager interaction, or you could be one of the multiballs.

 

I can't figure you out but given the lack of agreement on your wolfishness I think it would be more productive for me to table it and suggest another guess rather than tunnel you all game.

 

If you could begin acting more villagery that would be quite helpful to me.

 

Thank you for getting back to me. My suspicion of you was wavering. The only thing keeping it there was your lack of responding to why you didn't vote Zander. I like this response.

 

As for acting more villagery, I don't follow. I'm trying to find scum. I'm weighing people's responses and pointing out what seems off to me. Please elaborate on what i should be doing, because I thought I was doing what I should be.

[Eldrick4221]

 

Are you going to ignore me again, Pizza?

 

...

 

Look at the timestamps and tell me if you're being reasonable.

 

I was just making sure I got your attention this time.

[Eldrick4221]

[unvote]

 

I'm having trouble keeping up with everything myself. I'm not faulting Thane for having the same problem. This is the 3rd day in a row I've tried to get through this reread. I'm tempted to just go from here, and see how things develop.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Thank you for getting back to me. My suspicion of you was wavering. The only thing keeping it there was your lack of responding to why you didn't vote Zander. I like this response.

 

As for acting more villagery, I don't follow. I'm trying to find scum. I'm weighing people's responses and pointing out what seems off to me. Please elaborate on what i should be doing, because I thought I was doing what I should be.

I can't give you an instruction manual for this part-

 

In the Champions game I eventually cleared three villagers who had never been cleared by the cop, based on tells in their posts.

 

If you're a villager, you should be able to do or say something that reveals that aspect of who you are, inside, as you're playing the game.

 

But telling you what is a villager tell invalidates the tell. So I'm asking for something I know not what.... it's up to you to deliver.

 

Not every villager can clear themselves, but I'm watching, not tunneling, keeping an open mind.

 

What do you think of Andrej?

[Andrej]

For one Eldrick is playing a world's difference than I have seen him before. I wouldn't expect you to know this, but it's an important detail nonetheless. In our last game together I was a villager and he was a wolf and I had him pretty firmly pegged D1. What I like about his posts is that he's being vocal with his ideas but not in a way I feel is intentionally manipulative. I also like that he is showing progression and a willingness to adjust his mindset when someone brings up a valid point contesting his. I didn't see this type of fluidity in his thought process in our last contest together. The interactions between him and Alot are a good example and both strike me as villagery in their discussion.

 

I have actually liked Tayla since her game entrance. I haven't played with her before but I get the sense she conveys her thoughts in a clear and confident manner.

 

Krak is a bit of a volume tell. He came out okay D1 and engaged EP and Sili over some stuff I don't really remember exactly without looking back. Then he goes absent for the entiriety of D1 only to reappear again with some random posts before Day break. I don't see much of contribution on his end and frankly I feel like his case towards me is weak, but I'm willing to concede that could just be me getting my panties in a bunch.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Regarding Thane-

 

If he's a villager, I probably look wolfy for defending him.

 

If he's a wolf, I probably look wolfy for defending him.

 

He can't be like this all game. Everyone back off of him for a little while, let him get caught up, and then, give him a normal amount of time to deliver.

 

Once that happens, if you hate his posts, lynch him.

 

He's an easy, vulnerable, consensus-y target. Do the harder thing and give him the time he needs.

 

Vote me instead of him if you think this request is coming from a wolfy mindset. I'd like to have that on record anyway.

[Askthepizzaguy]

My leans list is not that old, I posted it before work and there were only like 4 pages in between. I could re-quote it, not much has changed.

[Eldrick4221]

Regarding Thane-

 

If he's a villager, I probably look wolfy for defending him.

 

If he's a wolf, I probably look wolfy for defending him.

 

He can't be like this all game. Everyone back off of him for a little while, let him get caught up, and then, give him a normal amount of time to deliver.

 

Once that happens, if you hate his posts, lynch him.

 

He's an easy, vulnerable, consensus-y target. Do the harder thing and give him the time he needs.

 

Vote me instead of him if you think this request is coming from a wolfy mindset. I'd like to have that on record anyway.

+1

 

My vote was mostly for pressure, but I didn't feel comfortable keeping it there. I never was good at voting someone solely for pressure. i don't understand the concept.

 

When I vote, I intend it to go to a lynch.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hally, Sooh, Alot, AH, Dice, Yates, Thane, Verb, Talya, El, Leelou, Sili, Krak, Taborline, AJ, Alannalynn, Seph, EP, Tina, Batassery

 

Sorted:

 

EP

Krak

Sili

Yates

Sooh

Seph

 

Unsorted

 

Verb

El

Tayla

 

Changes-

 

Andrej is in brick red (suspicion but not sold)

Contemplating dropping El to neutral.

 

I generally strongly disagree with basically all of Andrej's viewpoints. I don't know if that's because he's the most obvious wolf of all time or if he's a very against the grain villager.

 

I don't usually assume it's as simple as the first option.

[Eldrick4221]

I do intend to eventually go through the game and take notes. I forgot to while I started, because I was also trying to work my way through the Pokemon game. and now the task is incredibly daunting.

 

Here is what I have so far, if anyone is interested.

 

 

 

Sili "I have the power of my vote and maybe something else."

(Similar to mine. Town points)

 

Sili votes dingus (manbat,Batass)

Reason later explained is 'to get a read on him'

 

Sili Scum read on seph, “Basically, it looks to me like he's overthinking what he says. He's very nervous.”

 

AJ votes Pizza. No apparent reason.

Sili votes Seph

 

Seph defends his posting, questioning why it looks like he's nervous.

Sili says it looks like he's asking questions just to look active, and then unvotes.

 

Laine votes AJ for stealing her nickname.

 

AJ questions Sili for removing his vote. Sili justifies it with lack of scum vibes, and not pressuring him.

 

Dice votes Talya. Welcome vote.

 

Sooh votes Pizza. Welcome vote.

 

Pizza secretly says he will vote the person to post after him.

 

I call Pizza out on voting me.

 

Sooh vote Eldrick for spamming.

Unvotes

 

Yates hard claims Flying Pumpkin

Yates FoS Sili

Yates calls Sooh's entry wolfy. Fos Sooh

 

Tina votes Verb

 

seph votes EP. Says he is being unhelpful, and going with the flow

 

Hally votes Sooh

 

Laine FoS Sooh

 

Zander votes Sooh. Didn't like her reason for voting.

 

EP points out that seph saying his first vote pinging was a poor attempt to cast suspicion (agree) #164

 

Tina doesn't like Zander's vote. #172

 

Pizza comes back and doesn't vote me. Explains why.

“I believe in the power of honest players to do the right thing, and I also believe that lies can be useful to generate reactions. If you choose to vote for me for not voting for you, that will tell me something new about you. Pleased to meet you!  “ #176

 

Sili votes Laine. Feels like she's floating. #177

 

Seph defends his vote on EP, saying he has been hanging out and moving with the crowd, and finds it suspicious. #185

Stopped at post #188

 

sili asks seph what he found scummy about EP's first post.

Seph replies he didn't like the phrasing.

 

EP reads Seph and Laine as mafia team, and votes seph

EP corrects himself that eldrick and Laine were buddying up. Still leaning Seph/Laine maf team.

 

I vote and unvote to reply to Pizza's lack of voting, and his reasoning for not doing so.

 

EP points out that seph is focusing on one thing. Not-town behavior.

EP suspects Laine because Seph is ignoring Laine's laidback behavior.

 

Sili votes Zander for refusing to communicate his gut feelings.

EP defends Zander

 

Pizza claims that Zander is his lynch choice for the day.

 

Manbat reads Sili town and seph town

 

Pizza fights with Laine about the samantics of spamming and only spamming.

 

Yates calls seph lock wolf for saying “and makes it difficult to read others”, calling it something scum does to sound town

 

Pizza votes Seph, as to not continue Zander's train.

 

Manbat slight town read on pizza

 

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

For one Eldrick is playing a world's difference than I have seen him before. I wouldn't expect you to know this, but it's an important detail nonetheless. In our last game together I was a villager and he was a wolf and I had him pretty firmly pegged D1. What I like about his posts is that he's being vocal with his ideas but not in a way I feel is intentionally manipulative. I also like that he is showing progression and a willingness to adjust his mindset when someone brings up a valid point contesting his. I didn't see this type of fluidity in his thought process in our last contest together. The interactions between him and Alot are a good example and both strike me as villagery in their discussion.

 

I have actually liked Tayla since her game entrance. I haven't played with her before but I get the sense she conveys her thoughts in a clear and confident manner.

 

Krak is a bit of a volume tell. He came out okay D1 and engaged EP and Sili over some stuff I don't really remember exactly without looking back. Then he goes absent for the entiriety of D1 only to reappear again with some random posts before Day break. I don't see much of contribution on his end and frankly I feel like his case towards me is weak, but I'm willing to concede that could just be me getting my panties in a bunch.

 

I think your confidence on Eldrick is indicative of wolfy PIS.

 

Even a change as you describe it should not warrant such confidence.

 

Put it to you like this- suppose I'm a villager and Eldrick is. I suspect Eldrick.

 

You, a wolf, see this and strongly townread him, and give reasons a, b, c, d, and e why he's a villager.

 

Based on a difference of one game.

 

I find that to be wolf manipulation of the diplo situation. If I were to ever suspect Andrej, he might assume he has a voting ally in Eldrick for townreading him while I am scum reading Eldrick.

 

I think it is a cunning attempt to divide the town, the process feels too fake.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Now, if that's wrong, I can at least tell you why.

 

You have zero reasons to find Talya villager. You have a thin sense about her, and that's all.

 

And if she is a villager, again you have played the wolfy diplo game. Pizza has scumread two villagers, now if Pizza scumreads Andrej he will find himself quite without voting allies.

 

I think your villager reads are naked attempts at manipulating the players you're townreading.

[Andrej]

Agree to disagree then. I know where I'm coming from this game.

 

I would ask you to re-read Tayla's body of work in full and not judge her based solely on your snap read in defense of Krak. I think you'll better understand where I'm coming from when you do that.

 

As far as Krak goes I'm not willing to buy into the derp clearing logic. I'm not going to condemn him for his push on me today but I also don't think it's a hard stance to take at this point. I need to see work from him so that I can judge whether I think he's legit or simply a wolf who thought he saw a tasty snack.

[Askthepizzaguy]

unvote

 

Vote Andrej

 

Mostly for reactions. The process reads true but I'm not confident on it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Agree to disagree then. I know where I'm coming from this game.

 

I would ask you to re-read Tayla's body of work in full and not judge her based solely on your snap read in defense of Krak. I think you'll better understand where I'm coming from when you do that.

 

As far as Krak goes I'm not willing to buy into the derp clearing logic. I'm not going to condemn him for his push on me today but I also don't think it's a hard stance to take at this point. I need to see work from him so that I can judge whether I think he's legit or simply a wolf who thought he saw a tasty snack.

You're a gentleman, but that alone isn't going to make me think you're a villager.

 

I detest your reads at the moment and I think they can be created for wolfy reasons.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So now I am opening a portal to the alternate parallel universe.

 

Step inside the portal for a moment with me.

 

In here, Andrej, you are a villager and I've suddenly become aware of that, and know it with certainty. You do not have to return this courtesy.

 

Who are Krak's wolf partners?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Eldrick

 

The way you talk about Leelou pushing Thane sounds like you find it suspicious or bad.

 

I don't really understand why you'd follow it in that case?

 

If Eldrick and Thane are both villagers, this post appears to be crowd control. Sowing division via indirect means.

[Andrej]

So now I am opening a portal to the alternate parallel universe.

 

Step inside the portal for a moment with me.

 

In here, Andrej, you are a villager and I've suddenly become aware of that, and know it with certainty. You do not have to return this courtesy.

 

Who are Krak's wolf partners?

Snap read? You.

 

Reason being in the moment that Krak was coming under fire for his disconnected read you stepped in and declared it nothing more than villager derping and immediately turned the tides by voting one of his detractors. This is heavily associative and obviously only gains true merit in the event that Krak is a wolf with you.

 

Beyond that he has had next to zero interactions with anyone else due to his low volume. Besides me, he has only spoken with EP who is now a vetted Mason and Sili who is another one of my stronger villager reads. Those are literally the only notable interactions he has had this game outside of an offhand comment with Taborline offering help and the bumbling he did today with his entrance.

 

In short, he could be with anyone. At this point your defense is the most notable interaction in the event that he is a wolf.

[Eldrick4221]

Yates 1.0 – Forensic Investigator

Tress – Town Vanilla

Zander – Town Mason

 

Strong town

EP

AJ

Sili

 

Slight town

Tina

Pizza

 

Null:

Verb

Heart

Talya

Tabor

Yates 2.0

Thane

 

Unsorted:

Hally

Sooh

Alot

dice

Leelou

Laine

Batass

 

slight scum

Krak

seph

 

 

I believe that EP is the other mason. Lock town IMO

AJ and Sili have given me town vibes all game. There have been disputes concerning them, but they are villagery to me.

 

The timing of the end of the day looks bad for Sili, being he voted right before it happened, but I don't think he was involved with it. It looks like a scapegoat kinda situation. (Also, Sili's soft claim at the beginning of the game is similar to mine)

 

I was already under the mindset that AJ was town. The back and forth between Yates and AJ looked like T/T to me.

 

I got town vibes from Tina D1. She hasn't done anything to affect that. It's still just a gut feeling.

 

Pizza has moved up to town now that he has responded to me. I don't have anything against him anymore. I have otherwise liked his play so far.

 

Heart hasn't really contributed yet. Null

Talya and Tabor haven't contributed much yet, or it wasn't memorable. Null

Yates 2.0's alignment is still to be detirmined. It's Yates D1 all over again.

 

Something recently happened with Krak that made me suspicious of him, but it's not coming to me right now.

 

Seph slight maf lean for reasons stated earlier. 

 

Everyone else I haven't sorted yet. I don't think I'm doing a big game again.

[Andrej]

Now, if that's wrong, I can at least tell you why.

 

You have zero reasons to find Talya villager. You have a thin sense about her, and that's all.

 

And if she is a villager, again you have played the wolfy diplo game. Pizza has scumread two villagers, now if Pizza scumreads Andrej he will find himself quite without voting allies.

 

I think your villager reads are naked attempts at manipulating the players you're townreading.

As I stated before do your own diligence and read Tayla to form your own decision before you damn me for reaching mine.

 

The way you are characterizing my reads sounds like you are assuming that I plan a push on you at some point or that I am preemptively assuming you will target me at some point.

[Eldrick4221]

I'm going to take a break from this now and play Town of Salem. If anyone wants to join me, add me (izme1000)

[Cass]

Cass, how certain of you those are your only games with LeeLou?  If what you said is correct...

99.9%

 

I'm on mobile so will have to wait til tonight to confirm but apart from attempting the turbo and two mashes on PoG I've only played here and this is only my 7th game so I'm pretty confident.

 

Off the top of my head the other games were:

- Tommy's Top Tier Vanilla*

- Tina's Be Nice

- Alanna's Arthurian*

- Ithi's Cliché (Black Tower)

- Kaylee's Warehouse 13*

- Csarmi's April Fools

 

With * being games I remember Leelou being in.