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[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread


Tommyrod

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Posted
  On 11/15/2014 at 5:37 AM, WWWwombat said:

Maybe I should start watching that show.  Fantasy Baseball > Fantasy Football though.  Also, Trout/Kershaw MVPs are sexy.

 

Not sure why you guys are discounting the holster possibility.

 

The league is amazing. 

 

Posted

BTW... That's simply not how I work at all. I wouldn't do what you imply as any alignment. For starters, I'm not deliberate like that. I don't manipulate ever. Just not how my mind works.

 

Simply put, I say what I mean and I mean what I say. In any game. Cause that's just how I roll.

 

I dunno the first thing about subtle.

 

I think you've seen me play already.

Posted
  On 11/15/2014 at 5:42 AM, Andrej said:

Not really discounting it tbh, I just think it's probably the least likely of potential explanations.

 

*IF* anyone holstered, my guess would be the SK.

 

A Vig that can shoot only every other Night probably doesn't want to miss that opportunity imo and a 1x-Vig wolf DEFINITELY isn't going to waste their shot.

 

And then you go back to crazy pills.  There is literally no reason why a SK in an open setup game without a tracker role would holster: it generates no camo and doesn't prevent them from being identified, while leaving more numbers.  There's absolutely no logic to that thought, which means you're either very bad at logic or lying about your thought process.

Posted

And how many times now have I said that someone holstering was the least likely out of the potential possibilities? Like several.

 

I was responding to Wombat in hypotheticals and exploring the option and how I think it would've gone down. Bottom line - which I have said several times - I don't think anyone actually holstered.

 

Another aside, this is a prime example of what I was talking about earlier how further discussion on the matter would just promote arguments over theory - like it is here. I don't know what happened and if you don't either (Kivam) than you really don't have a leg to stand on when telling me my speculation is wrong/illogical.

Posted

Yes he does. Only way the SK would holster here if they missed their night action. But actions can be sent in advance (before night starts) so...

 

Chances overlapping shots are high even with totally random shooting and then there is the RB/jail keep.

Posted

It really isn't important - like at all. Exploring hypotheticals for a situation that probably didn't happen is stupid and just because you disagree with who I picked out of the 4 potential gun holders to fit with that conclusion doesn't mean anything at all about my alignment.

 

It's a stupid discussion. Continued focus on it is likely from a bad place from someone who wants to have easy talking points.

Posted
  On 11/16/2014 at 7:09 PM, csarmi said:

BTW... That's simply not how I work at all. I wouldn't do what you imply as any alignment. For starters, I'm not deliberate like that. I don't manipulate ever. Just not how my mind works.

 

Simply put, I say what I mean and I mean what I say. In any game. Cause that's just how I roll.

 

I dunno the first thing about subtle.

 

I think you've seen me play already.

 

I just read a post by Andrej that said a similar thing that you do above - "I can't be mafia because I don't mislead people or think like that".

 

This is like the villain that slips on a pair of glasses while the hero has an arm cocked back.

 

Honestly, I'm re-reading with a Straussian view on things ("scholar" vs. "great thinker") to try and bridge the logic gaps so that we can communicate, but that falls apart when players don't make any sense at all. Half of the bedbugs in this game are putting on bathrobes, calling themselves Jedi and holding their hands over their computer to make decisions. I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but that doesn't actually work.

 

Everything you say above screams scum. 

Posted

No DPR. I'm not saying I can't be Mafia because... I'm saying I wouldn't work that way regardless of my alignment. If you look for motivations and manipulation where none exists - and never will - you'll always be wrong.

Posted
  On 11/16/2014 at 7:16 PM, Andrej said:

And how many times now have I said that someone holstering was the least likely out of the potential possibilities? Like several.

 

I was responding to Wombat in hypotheticals and exploring the option and how I think it would've gone down. Bottom line - which I have said several times - I don't think anyone actually holstered.

 

Another aside, this is a prime example of what I was talking about earlier how further discussion on the matter would just promote arguments over theory - like it is here. I don't know what happened and if you don't either (Kivam) than you really don't have a leg to stand on when telling me my speculation is wrong/illogical.

 

This is just plain wrong and contradictory to the tone-reading stuff to boot. You saying that you get a good feel for a player's alignment early in the game and then trying to shut down discussion over events doesn't make sense, but does speak of an agenda.

Posted

I'm saying that what you said makes no sense in regards to me. I wouldn't do that as town. I wouldn't do that as survivor. I wouldn't do that as Mafia. I wouldn't do that as SK. I wouldn't do that as cult. I wouldn't do that as ME.

Posted
  On 11/16/2014 at 7:35 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

This is just plain wrong and contradictory to the tone-reading stuff to boot. You saying that you get a good feel for a player's alignment early in the game and then trying to shut down discussion over events doesn't make sense, but does speak of an agenda.

 

And those are correlated how? Discussion over the NAs is pointless in my opinion, tone reading has nothing to do with it. The most we're going to get out of the speculation is varying levels of agreement about what could've happened which likely will devolve into arguments over theory, which is has somewhat already started to.

 

Further more, it serves as a distraction because it isn't directly relevant to anything we can discuss that happened on thread for all to see and gives scum something to chatter about without actually having to scum hunt.

 

So. Let's. Drop. It. For. Now.

Posted
  On 11/15/2014 at 5:53 AM, Andrej said:

What's the general opinion on Tress atm btw?

 

I'm a little put off by how she is defending Despot vs DPR on pg 75.

 

"Re: the bolded/purpled/underlined DPR quote above...

 

See, despite the patented Des Tunneling, this is one of the points he's made against you that really does continue to make complete sense.  You keep characterizing his "seer cover" explanation as DES bringing it up to explain Yates' behavior as a town move, but the actual context doesn't support that.  Despo didn't just "bring it up" - he was specifically asked what he thought about Yates' claim and clearing of Dice, and he kinda had to bring up "seer cover" to explain why he was disregarding the claim entirely.   Blame it on Dice, if anyone, and unless you think Yates, Dice and Despo are mafia together and planned that little exchange behind the scenes, I do not think it means what you think it means."

 

The bolded/colored bit is what bugs me the most. Could just be hindsight bias on my part for seeing this now with knowledge of Yates's alignment but it strikes me in a bad manner.

 

I think Tress is actually playing a very straight game.  Strong town lean on her

 

Posted
  On 11/16/2014 at 7:16 PM, Andrej said:

And how many times now have I said that someone holstering was the least likely out of the potential possibilities? Like several.

 

I was responding to Wombat in hypotheticals and exploring the option and how I think it would've gone down. Bottom line - which I have said several times - I don't think anyone actually holstered.

 

Another aside, this is a prime example of what I was talking about earlier how further discussion on the matter would just promote arguments over theory - like it is here. I don't know what happened and if you don't either (Kivam) than you really don't have a leg to stand on when telling me my speculation is wrong/illogical.

Well, help me out here.

 

Post a single logical reason it would be beneficial for a SK to holster in this setup

Posted
  On 11/16/2014 at 3:40 PM, csarmi said:

No such thing as being townspewec until the sk flips. For instance, Arsis/Pray may just be anti town but not mafia and that would fit Nyn's picture.

 

Tl;dr - lynch scummy people and lynch people who got s umspewed but careful with the townspew stuff.

 

 

  On 11/16/2014 at 7:04 PM, csarmi said:

Yea that makes no sense as I'm town.

 

Also, how am I laying down cover for anti town behaviour?

 

 

  On 11/16/2014 at 7:09 PM, csarmi said:

BTW... That's simply not how I work at all. I wouldn't do what you imply as any alignment. For starters, I'm not deliberate like that. I don't manipulate ever. Just not how my mind works.

 

Simply put, I say what I mean and I mean what I say. In any game. Cause that's just how I roll.

 

I dunno the first thing about subtle.

 

I think you've seen me play already.

 

 

  On 11/16/2014 at 7:33 PM, csarmi said:

No DPR. I'm not saying I can't be Mafia because... I'm saying I wouldn't work that way regardless of my alignment. If you look for motivations and manipulation where none exists - and never will - you'll always be wrong.

 

The top post draws a distinction between "townspew" and other "spew", making the subtle suggestion that anything Yates said should be viewed dubious light.

 

It's clear that anything Yates said is already being looked at as dubious, thus no mention need be made of it. Unless someone was worried about a re-read or future action.

 

This, to me, goes directly against the one-dimensional and simple logic that you claim to always use. In a game focussed on deception.

 

My thought here is that it's always nice to breadcrumb a few posts to reflect back upon when your looking over dead bodies on D2.

 

##Vote Csarmi/Des  

Posted

I'm not getting into this with you Kivam.

 

It's a distraction and the scenario we are talking about very likely didn't happen anyway so further time wasted on talking about it is going to get us nowhere.

 

If you think I'm a wolf for it then shut up and vote me already but I'm not going to engage on this line of talk anymore.

Posted
  On 11/15/2014 at 1:01 PM, csarmi said:

 

  On 11/10/2014 at 4:01 PM, Kivam said:

So we have a serial killer who will roll town on investigation? ##vote mod

 

But hey, old times. [Vote]##verb[/vote]. Because it's been too damn long.

 

Fyi, I am still in new orleans on vacation until tonight, won't be posting hyper often

SK slip from Kivam? Could that be?

Did you pick GF over BPV? Good to know.

 

 

Heh, no.  Serial who picks BPV is crazy, IMO.

 

Posted
  On 11/16/2014 at 7:44 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 11/16/2014 at 7:35 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

This is just plain wrong and contradictory to the tone-reading stuff to boot. You saying that you get a good feel for a player's alignment early in the game and then trying to shut down discussion over events doesn't make sense, but does speak of an agenda.

 

And those are correlated how? Discussion over the NAs is pointless in my opinion, tone reading has nothing to do with it. The most we're going to get out of the speculation is varying levels of agreement about what could've happened which likely will devolve into arguments over theory, which is has somewhat already started to.

 

Further more, it serves as a distraction because it isn't directly relevant to anything we can discuss that happened on thread for all to see and gives scum something to chatter about without actually having to scum hunt.

 

So. Let's. Drop. It. For. Now.

 

 

These are correlated by the fact that support using non-logial means to determine a player's alignment, but then don't want to take part in speculative conversations regarding different NK scenarios. You support guessing and then say you don't want to guess about something else.

 

The discussion can and should continue as it forces players to comment on what they think happened. When a wolf comments, they either have to distance (often by using flimsy logic that pings) or give up their teammate to try and cover themselves. Either way, the practice forces conversation and gives us GRC posts to look at.

 

Trying to shut down conversations does nothing but help the wolves. 

Posted
  On 11/15/2014 at 9:18 PM, WWWwombat said:

GF is dead.  Only way I'm not town is if I'm SK or I'm scum and intentionally killed someone with zero seer equity.

 

Sorta sheds new light on Kivam's SK push on me imo.

 

  On 11/15/2014 at 9:16 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/14/2014 at 12:27 PM, csarmi said:

Did Leelou and Stelio posted their peeks?

 

Remember this?  It was a very good question.

 

 

 

  On 11/15/2014 at 9:17 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:26 AM, Stelio Kontos said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:24 AM, WWWwombat said:

Stelio LOCK CLEAR

 

 

jk

if I'm the seer I peeked myself villager last night, can't be too careful

 

or maybe it was him villager

 

 

 

 

  On 11/15/2014 at 9:18 PM, WWWwombat said:

GF is dead.  Only way I'm not town is if I'm SK or I'm scum and intentionally killed someone with zero seer equity.

 

Sorta sheds new light on Kivam's SK push on me imo.

 

LOLWut?

 

Stelio flipped Jailkeeper, and the SK may be a GF anyway.  So ... I have no idea where you are going with this argument

Posted

Yeah - still not correlated at all. Tone reading isn't just a guess so firstly you're mischaracterizing on a grand scale there.

 

NK speculation allows for misdirection in a nutshell and believe it or not the outcome you're hoping for isn't very likely to happen because the wolves already have a better idea than the average player as to what actually happened.

Posted
  On 11/16/2014 at 8:09 PM, Andrej said:

Yeah - still not correlated at all. Tone reading isn't just a guess so firstly you're mischaracterizing on a grand scale there.

 

NK speculation allows for misdirection in a nutshell and believe it or not the outcome you're hoping for isn't very likely to happen because the wolves already have a better idea than the average player as to what actually happened.

 

So not trying to tunnel here, but this just blows my mind. 

 

You are saying that tone reading isn't just a guess.

 

You are also saying that NK speculation allows for misdirection because the wolves know more than the town.

 

FTR, I completely disagree with both of these points. Tone reading is exactly just guessing and NK speculation is a valuable tool, alongside coroner information, to be used to corner scum.

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