[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Sili Quirrels]

lynched for information. how ignoble.

[Cass]

I can't help it.
 

I have to post. It won't be all fancy and linky but hopefully it will do.

 

I'm up to Des' post #964.

 

 

 

I basically mind-melded with DPR through posts #924, 927, 933 and still on 939 - especially about the looking forward to seeing what happens.

 

 

… ESPECIALLY looking forward to seeing who gets lynched… because, (shout out to Town) the way I see it, DPR and I probably have the same scum team in mind at this point and if either of us goes, you’ll know we had it right ;) If it goes the complete opposite way after this post, well, we were probably right there too. Assuming, you know, that we're actually right and that we actually have the same people in mind.

 

 

@ DES, thank you for lockclearing me in post #961 (Is this something stronger than you saying you think I’m Town?). At this point, following your last BIG post (953) I think I’m leaning towards you being Town, but confused. I understand your frustration, and I’ll be interested to see how DPR replies, since I haven’t had time to go back and check his backstory yet either, and I'd like to use what he says to judge if I can keep him in the clear. *nods at DPR*. Yes. This means that, for the moment, *acknowledging that I have not read his backstory and may be missing something, I have DPR in the clear. I also have Kiv there too, but mostly this is all based on who I think is scum.

 

@ DPR, (thanks for the welcome :) ) for what it’s worth, you might think Des' post 953 was dense, but I have motive for you replying to Des’ rant other than just piquing my curiosity and keeping you in the clear. Say you or I, or anyone else reading along these same lines here (So far my gut is going with Kiv, Csarmi and maybe Nyn are – but I’m not sure). If WE'RE all Town (and, @EVERYONE – I THINK WE ALL ARE), and we’re all killed - Who else is going to carry the flame that got us burned if we don't explain our thought process clearly enough for them to understand? Des is a vocal player, if he’s Town and simply confused (and his post comes across frustrated enough for me to think so) then I think it’s our job to help him understand… before we die… I know I'm new and all, but... amiright... or do you have something to hide?

[csarmi]

Vote Count D1.10:Pral (4): Wombat [#568], Nyn [#691], Yates [#698], Sili [#700]

Sili (3): AJ [#67], Kivam [#362], Thane [#453]

Nyn (2): Pral [#416], Krak [#718]

Cass (1): Dicefrogger [#287]

Darthe (1): Deslami [#483]

Yates (1): Darthe [#508]

Unvote (1): Verbarm [#243]

Not Voting (7): Cass, DPR, Hallia, Leelou, Stelio, Rags, TressAt the gallows: Pral

Last vote count Des. Unchanged. Juzt checked.

[Kivam]

To add on to that- I actually don't like some of Kivam's recent posts. His most recent recap post misrepped a couple of situations imo, said that DPR will always look town (even tho DPR doesn't look town at all to me this game), and later said Thane was confirmed town because Thane's scum reads matched Kivam's. Maybe Kivam was being facetious with that last bit, but considering Kivam was scumreading Thane during most of his catchups, I CERTAINLY don't think he would townclear him just because he had similar suspects.

 

As for DPR, it sketches me out that anyone would be reading him as town, or strong town at this point. He has been evasive, has misrepped situations multiple times, and in general is displaying poor reading comprehension that leads to incredibly opportunistic and scummy posts. For instance he said I was "shaming" Kivam for the "defending/not defending argument is boring" comment I made, even tho that comment if ANYTHING was SUPPORTING Kivam, not shaming him. Also if DPR had been truly reading all my posts before that he would have seen me saying I didn't think people should be dismissing Kivam's opinion so quickly, which kind of goes directly against "shaming" him. Then there's something recent where DPR misrepresented something Sili said, where Sili was actually attacking Yates (which seemed like a dumb attack imo, but w/e), but DPR got on him for attacking NYN instead. When Sili corrected him, DPR said his point still stood, even tho IT DIDN'T. The more Sili responded, the more evasive DPR got, turning the conversation into something else entirely.

 

I might be wrong, and DPR might be town that is just off his game at the moment, but I certainly don't see how people would be townreading him here.

 

Yep.

 

Re Wes, I don't know how often you've played with him, but this is exactly what he does as town.  It's also exactly what he does as mafia.  I'm not going to go into detail on some of his moves because they are useless if explained and deadly if scum isn't aware of what's coming, so if he's town that would be a mistake to blow just because you don't know those moves well enough to see them coming.  (And yes, if I'm scum, or anyone else who has played with Wes enough, it's already blown.  We'll see).

 

[Cass]

Damnit I didn't bold it.

 

^^ Post 977 ^^ SHOUTOUT TO TOWN

[Thane Vakarian]

Let me put it like this: i truely can't go back and forth in the thread to post content with my reads. I need a minimal focus on my work. I shall however try to do so tomorrow morning (my time) when i have some time before heading off to work. 

[Sili Quirrels]

@cass, what do you mean by mind-meld? i've never heard dingus use that term so i'm surprised you know it.

[Nynaeve]

Let me put it like this: i truely can't go back and forth in the thread to post content with my reads. I need a minimal focus on my work. I shall however try to do so tomorrow morning (my time) when i have some time before heading off to work. 

 

Fair enough.

[Cass]

*Also still have to clear my backstory on Kiv, Csarmi and Nyn, as well as DPR obviously,  But for the moment I'm keeping them in the clear.

[csarmi]

Vote Count D1.12:

 

Pral (4): Wombat [#568], Nyn [#691], Yates [#698], Sili [#700]

Sili (3): AJ [#67], Kivam [#362], Thane [#453]

Nyn (2): Pral [#416], Krak [#718]

Cass (1): Dicefrogger [#287]

Darthe (1): Deslami [#483]

Yates (1): Darthe [#508]

 

Unvote (1): Verbarm [#243]

 

Not Voting (7): Cass, DPR, Hallia, Leelou, Stelio, Rags, Tress

 

At the gallows: Pral

 

[Thane Vakarian]

@cass, what do you mean by mind-meld? i've never heard dingus use that term so i'm surprised you know it.

Manbat used it before, i'm quite certain of it.

[csarmi]

@Wombat - i am fading away cause work is busy and having bad days with my back. So when homw i rest.

[Cass]

@Sili - I haven't looked it up, but from the context of what I've read throughout this game, I was going on the assumption that it meant I thought the two of us were thinking pretty closely along the same lines.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

 

 

(OK, really, I'm going to bed now!!) *drags self away*

 

Ninight

[hazelkrs1]

@Kivam: I liked your responses in #974. Thank you. Just saw post #979 tho... and not so much. Can you just state plain and simple why you think DPR looks towny here? I get that he is an experienced player so he's not able to be cleared easily... but you still said he looked towny this game. I'd like to know what posts specifically, or at least general behavior, made you say that

 

@Cass: Why do you think I'm confused? I actually went back and fetched quotes to show that I in fact wasn't confused here, and why DPR was misrepresenting me. I don't know why you have DPR in the clear, and I don't know why you think I'm confused when I showed in detail (and with evidence) where I was coming from

[hazelkrs1]

Nooooo Cass answer me before you go really quick. Need to know if I LOCK CLEARED you too fast

 

[hazelkrs1]

Man I'm getting good at killing the thread.

 

Anyways, Wombat while I'm still catching up, just saw your reads list again. Noticed that you said your town read on me went down before, but then there I see were in yellow or w/e, right next to your scum leans.

 

What happened to drop us down that far? If anything I think I've broadcast my towniness more and more as the game has developed, so I'm confused as to why I'm dropping down your list instead

[csarmi]

He can probably read me better. And i am not around much lately.

 

FWIW he looks quite Townish to me.

 

Still need Nyn to flash her townieness more but feeling good there.

 

Wary of Thane somewhat. You busy man?

[Thane Vakarian]

yeah, sometimes it DOES get busy at work... Des, you don't kill the thread, really. And Csarmi.. i miss lyrics...

 

back to work, bbl

[hazelkrs1]

Salami, I think Thane is town here. Not locked in on that, but def feeling a lot better about him than I was initially

 

@Thane: I love you bro

 

Whether town or scum this game, I genuinely appreciate how you're always able to keep the mood light and make games more enjoyable. Thanks dude

[Kivam]

@Kivam: I liked your responses in #974. Thank you. Just saw post #979 tho... and not so much. Can you just state plain and simple why you think DPR looks towny here? I get that he is an experienced player so he's not able to be cleared easily... but you still said he looked towny this game. I'd like to know what posts specifically, or at least general behavior, made you say that

 

@Cass: Why do you think I'm confused? I actually went back and fetched quotes to show that I in fact wasn't confused here, and why DPR was misrepresenting me. I don't know why you have DPR in the clear, and I don't know why you think I'm confused when I showed in detail (and with evidence) where I was coming from

 

Pretty sure I didn't.  I know I've said both that he's playing a very townsided game and that it's a null tell for him.  In other words, he's making moves that if he's town will be very helpful to the town, but that doesn't tell me his alignment because he will make the same plays as scum.  As for specific posts ... pretty much all of them that have content.  He's pushing people, making Wes-style reads and cases (and no, I'm not going to get into more detail about what that means; we can talk about that post-game or after you die, if you do). Mostly, he's generating information - which is the single most town-sided thing you can do on D1, whether you are scum or town, since information is what will eventually let us win the game.   

 

[hazelkrs1]

To me, "playing a townsided game" basically equated to looking townie. Obviously more experienced players are better at looking townie even when scum, but still.

 

Okay well moving on cause I don't think that convo leads us anywhere productive.

 

What about the points I've raised on him? That he's misrepping people and being purposefully vague and evasive, and showing poor reading comprehension (getting confused about who said what about whom).

 

Do you think THAT stuff looks towny for him?

[Cass]

Feel the need to outline that I missed something, and after a read of Kivam's post #963.  I don't actually think that Kiv and I have have the same reads :( Unless he's misdirecting. This throws a few things into question for me. I'm really going to have to go back and look over some stuff before I break that down.

 

@Kiv - I saw your question directed at me and I'll try and give you a thorough answer after some sleep and re-read what you linked and referenced to, but for now I'm just gonna come right out and say probably a mistake, and probably more tinged with suspicion at that point than misdirection. (I'm not stupid enough to try and persuade Town against someone with your reputation at that point, no matter what you say about how your meta shouldn't matter to them). But I was suspicious of you at that point, I'll give you that.

 

@Kivam: I liked your responses in #974. Thank you. Just saw post #979 tho... and not so much. Can you just state plain and simple why you think DPR looks towny here? I get that he is an experienced player so he's not able to be cleared easily... but you still said he looked towny this game. I'd like to know what posts specifically, or at least general behavior, made you say that

 

@Cass: Why do you think I'm confused? I actually went back and fetched quotes to show that I in fact wasn't confused here, and why DPR was misrepresenting me. I don't know why you have DPR in the clear, and I don't know why you think I'm confused when I showed in detail (and with evidence) where I was coming from

 

 

Des, you got me before bed but ... man it's 3:24am and my daughter wakes at 5- 530. I'm posting now to reply with something, even though I know that doing so and then disappearing may not look good. Same as Kiv, I'll get back to you when I've had some sleep. I wasn't trying to insult you by saying you were confused, like I said I understand your frustration but TBH that post is a really long one and I cannot do it justice today. I just do not have the will power left to sacrifice that much sleep and deal with the impact it's going to have on me and my daughter tomorrow I'm sorry  . This is not me brushing you off. This is me saying I think me replying to that post for you is going to rely on a lot of me checking back and forwards and mediating between you and DPR IF wires have been crossed. Which I think is fair. And then, I guess there's also the fact that I want DPR to answer properly and not just brush you off, because you raised a lot of points and I want to see what he's actually thinking (or willing to portray) so that I can decide whether I can keep him in my clear. I'm sorry mate, I know I'm opening myself up for misinterpretation, but that's three reasons why I shouldn't reply right now, versus the one that says I should (the possibility that you'll change your read on me). Sucky but there's nothing for it. I'm gonna have to ask you to just bear with me on this. I hope you get the clarification you deserve.

[csarmi]

Salami, I think Thane is town here. Not locked in on that, but def feeling a lot better about him than I was initially

@Thane: I love you bro

Whether town or scum this game, I genuinely appreciate how you're always able to keep the mood light and make games more enjoyable. Thanks dude

Totally agreed on that. Keeping the mood good is also a very townie thing to do.

[Cass]

DES - also, for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure I agree with all of Kivam's post 995. If he's hanging around, and willing, hopefully he can help you out.

 

Also, now my gut is pretty sure you're town. 

[csarmi]

Kivam, the game here kind of moved to forming town circles, PoE and generally to encourage pro town play by calling out townie behaviour too.

 

Also that tone reading is a thing. And that everyone should be read on a diffferent basis.

 

At least i hope it did :-)