[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[WWWwombat]

 

 

 

Leelou was killed N1, Verb. Good to know you checked out the flips.

The OP shows nothing. And Barm only told me who died, not how.

 

Cass just said we hammered Leelou......

Cuz it's so hard to go looking for the coroners ITT?

Cuz I'm on my phone trying not to miss DL?

 

 

h8usomuch

[Verbal32]

@Kiv - dude, unless we find a better lynch, I'm going to have to switch for self-preservation.

[Cass]

 

Leelou was killed N1, Verb. Good to know you checked out the flips.

The OP shows nothing. And Barm only told me who died, not how.

 

Cass just said we hammered Leelou......

 

 

This isn't exactly new, both Nyn and I (at least) have pointed this out before...

[Verbal32]

We have an hour.

 

I'm most happy with anyone from my top three (Wom, Kiv, DPR), and will happily take a gamble on anyone from my second tier (AJ, VerBarm, Thane, Deslarmi, Dice ... and, less happily, at Nyn).

 

If it ends up being one of the others then so be it, but I don't know enough on any of them to make a call.

 

 

 

One thing that might help - does Wom actually always do 'flurries' and harass people trying to genuinely understand?

I can confirm that Wombat being a pain in the @$$ is null for him.

[Verbal32]

 

 

 

Leelou was killed N1, Verb. Good to know you checked out the flips.

The OP shows nothing. And Barm only told me who died, not how.

 

Cass just said we hammered Leelou......

This isn't exactly new, both Nyn and I (at least) have pointed this out before...

Would this be before my re-entry into the thread?

[Kivam]

 

 

Yeah, I thought that was a pretty slimy move by AJ too Kiv, but what's to say he wasn't just not thinking it out rather than deliberately misleading?

The fact that he didn't say "you know what, you're right, didn't think it through."

 

As a townie, there's no reason not to acknowledge a mistake in logic if you recognize it.  Which means either he didn't recognize it (not credible given that he couldn't articulate any rationale) or didn't want to admit it (which I get in a game where fewer people bother to look at logic and more go on tone - people will miss it or discount it), which makes a lot more sense as a scum reaction to being caught in a lie than as a town reaction to realizing you're wrong.

 

 

A lot of townies are motivated by pride these days -_-  What's the scum motivation there though?

 

 

It's not logic there, it's instinctive - crap, I'm blown, have a question with no answer, counterattack and deflect!  Yeah, on reflection AJ is probably kicking himself if he's scum, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me.  "Pride" in not admitting that a theory you tossed into the thread is baseless isn't pro-town behavior, as far as I can tell.  Townies take pride in scumhunting, not in keeping alive a theory they know is BS that might stop town from scumhunting.

 

Maybe you're right, and AJ is a townie with a wounded ego.  But D2 I play the percentages, and the percentages say that's much less likely. 

 

[Darthe]

On final break.  If I return and can post it will be with minutes to spare but I am keeping up.  

[Kivam]

@Kiv - dude, unless we find a better lynch, I'm going to have to switch for self-preservation.

 

I'm aware.  Anyone else willing to switch to AJ with me?  He remains my preferred lynch

[Darthe]

 

 

 

Yeah, I thought that was a pretty slimy move by AJ too Kiv, but what's to say he wasn't just not thinking it out rather than deliberately misleading?

The fact that he didn't say "you know what, you're right, didn't think it through."

 

As a townie, there's no reason not to acknowledge a mistake in logic if you recognize it.  Which means either he didn't recognize it (not credible given that he couldn't articulate any rationale) or didn't want to admit it (which I get in a game where fewer people bother to look at logic and more go on tone - people will miss it or discount it), which makes a lot more sense as a scum reaction to being caught in a lie than as a town reaction to realizing you're wrong.

 

 

A lot of townies are motivated by pride these days -_-  What's the scum motivation there though?

 

 

It's not logic there, it's instinctive - crap, I'm blown, have a question with no answer, counterattack and deflect!  Yeah, on reflection AJ is probably kicking himself if he's scum, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me.  "Pride" in not admitting that a theory you tossed into the thread is baseless isn't pro-town behavior, as far as I can tell.  Townies take pride in scumhunting, not in keeping alive a theory they know is BS that might stop town from scumhunting.

 

Maybe you're right, and AJ is a townie with a wounded ego.  But D2 I play the percentages, and the percentages say that's much less likely. 

 

 

Percentages say that regardless of your argument he has a natural 75% town equity.  What are you rating him at right now with this unassailable logic in mind?  

[WWWwombat]

You might be right, Kiv.  But I'm starting to think Verbal is too obviously useless to be scum right now and I'd rather not move off of you unless I can be assured that I don't get run up and lynched the moment I do.

[Darthe]

@Kiv - dude, unless we find a better lynch, I'm going to have to switch for self-preservation.

I don't dislike the logic of this but I hate the pleading way that it's stated.  I could still switch here.

[WWWwombat]

Derf, what are you seeing with AJ?

[Verbal32]

You might be right, Kiv. But I'm starting to think Verbal is too obviously useless to be scum right now and I'd rather not move off of you unless I can be assured that I don't get run up and lynched the moment I do.

Gee thanks.

[Darthe]

You might be right, Kiv.  But I'm starting to think Verbal is too obviously useless to be scum right now and I'd rather not move off of you unless I can be assured that I don't get run up and lynched the moment I do.

What is with all of this self protecting crap?  It's not town behavior.  

[Darthe]

 

You might be right, Kiv. But I'm starting to think Verbal is too obviously useless to be scum right now and I'd rather not move off of you unless I can be assured that I don't get run up and lynched the moment I do.

Gee thanks.

 

Brings up the philosophical question that Hallia is currently mired with.  Would you rather be useless to the town or mafia team?

[Kivam]

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I thought that was a pretty slimy move by AJ too Kiv, but what's to say he wasn't just not thinking it out rather than deliberately misleading?

The fact that he didn't say "you know what, you're right, didn't think it through."

 

As a townie, there's no reason not to acknowledge a mistake in logic if you recognize it.  Which means either he didn't recognize it (not credible given that he couldn't articulate any rationale) or didn't want to admit it (which I get in a game where fewer people bother to look at logic and more go on tone - people will miss it or discount it), which makes a lot more sense as a scum reaction to being caught in a lie than as a town reaction to realizing you're wrong.

 

 

A lot of townies are motivated by pride these days -_-  What's the scum motivation there though?

 

 

It's not logic there, it's instinctive - crap, I'm blown, have a question with no answer, counterattack and deflect!  Yeah, on reflection AJ is probably kicking himself if he's scum, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me.  "Pride" in not admitting that a theory you tossed into the thread is baseless isn't pro-town behavior, as far as I can tell.  Townies take pride in scumhunting, not in keeping alive a theory they know is BS that might stop town from scumhunting.

 

Maybe you're right, and AJ is a townie with a wounded ego.  But D2 I play the percentages, and the percentages say that's much less likely. 

 

 

Percentages say that regardless of your argument he has a natural 75% town equity.  What are you rating him at right now with this unassailable logic in mind?  

 

 

This is a spasmodic, don't want to lose a townie lynch on a power player argument from lynchfuel.  Starting odds of being town are irrelevant, since they apply equally to everyone.  The question is how many townies make that play "for pride" - which, being the best argument in his favor, is an effing stupid one - versus how many scum will make that mistake out of fear of getting caught.  In my experience, it's the latter by a huge margin.

 

 

 

[Verbal32]

 

 

@Kiv - dude, unless we find a better lynch, I'm going to have to switch for self-preservation.

I don't dislike the logic of this but I hate the pleading way that it's stated. I could still switch here.

How could you possibly infer a pleading way there?

 

This is why this tone crap is complete garbage. That was a sentence with a simple statement of fact.

[WWWwombat]

Yes it is.  I know I'm town.  It's +EV to not get myself lynched.

[Darthe]

Derf, what are you seeing with AJ?

I'll hold off on that til I get a response but remind me of this.

[Verbal32]

 

 

 

You might be right, Kiv. But I'm starting to think Verbal is too obviously useless to be scum right now and I'd rather not move off of you unless I can be assured that I don't get run up and lynched the moment I do.

Gee thanks.

Brings up the philosophical question that Hallia is currently mired with. Would you rather be useless to the town or mafia team?

Explain how I'd be useless to town if left alive?

[Kivam]

You might be right, Kiv.  But I'm starting to think Verbal is too obviously useless to be scum right now and I'd rather not move off of you unless I can be assured that I don't get run up and lynched the moment I do.

 

Happy to do a coordinated move to AJ, save you for later, since you don't look like a lynch today

[Kivam]

 

You might be right, Kiv.  But I'm starting to think Verbal is too obviously useless to be scum right now and I'd rather not move off of you unless I can be assured that I don't get run up and lynched the moment I do.

What is with all of this self protecting crap?  It's not town behavior.  

 

BS.  A townie who doesn't self protect is an idiot, because I'm the only person I know for certain I'm town.  You are really trying very, very hard not to lose this lynch.

[Darthe]

 

 

@Kiv - dude, unless we find a better lynch, I'm going to have to switch for self-preservation.

I don't dislike the logic of this but I hate the pleading way that it's stated. I could still switch here.

How could you possibly infer a pleading way there?

 

This is why this tone crap is complete garbage. That was a sentence with a simple statement of fact.

 

Allow me to translate your post.

 

Dude, I really don't want to do it but if we get to EoD I'm going to have to vote you so I can live.  Exactly the way you said that and it pings.

[WWWwombat]

 

Derf, what are you seeing with AJ?

I'll hold off on that til I get a response but remind me of this.

 

 

You got one.

 

 

 

You might be right, Kiv.  But I'm starting to think Verbal is too obviously useless to be scum right now and I'd rather not move off of you unless I can be assured that I don't get run up and lynched the moment I do.

 

Happy to do a coordinated move to AJ, save you for later, since you don't look like a lynch today

 

 

We'll see.  I'm ambivalent.

[Kivam]

Willing to move

 

 

 

 

@Kiv - dude, unless we find a better lynch, I'm going to have to switch for self-preservation.

I don't dislike the logic of this but I hate the pleading way that it's stated. I could still switch here.

How could you possibly infer a pleading way there?

This is why this tone crap is complete garbage. That was a sentence with a simple statement of fact.

 

Allow me to translate your post.

 

Dude, I really don't want to do it but if we get to EoD I'm going to have to vote you so I can live.  Exactly the way you said that and it pings.

 

No, it doesn't.  It's exactly what a townie would say, since if VerBarm is town, he KNOWS he's town, and only thinks I am.  So why would he self-sacrifice to save me.  You pushing this looks really, really scummy.