[Advanced] Revenge of the Marlfox

[Sili Quirrels]

Just for despothera (please respect):

 

 

I've figured the following out quite recently. This may be harsh.

 

The problem with your analysis is that it is shallow. In a couple rare cases you will find an incongruent post that helps, but scum slips are rare (in my drafted experience), and if a smart scum can't pull off a lie they won't say anything, so I think what you want to do is gauge agency.

 

This does mean you need to know the person though, and people aren't simple linear projections of consciousness. They won't always fight a lynch when you need them to, nor will they always play possum. They may say awkward things in an attempt to say the right thing, or say the right thing without even knowing it.

 

Unlike Yates, I overall believe your isos are amicable and not worth any derision, except when you fail to adjust your read in flow. The real problem lies in your tendency to get caught up in underlying fixtures of consciousness. There are no shortcuts to knowing someone and how they think, and how they put those thoughts to words. To be good at (forum) mafia you must understand the difference between wolves and villagers.

 

wolves want to kill villagers, and villagers want to find wolves. a villager is proud of being thought well of because they appreciate it, and a wolf is proud of being thought well of because it is duplicitous. a villager is scared of dying because they can no longer contribute, and a wolf is scared of dying because wolves will need to survive one more day to win (i think that's how it works at any rate).

 

[hazelkrs1]

Since I kinda feel like I'm on a roll (BAHAHAHAHAHA! Even I get how funny that is DT! ) Imma just keep on going and give quick thoughts on a few other players

 

Sili seems MUCH more reasonable since he came back in the game. Meh, could be nothing, but considering how Berf looked early on (scummy), I'm thinking he's >rand to be wolf. Also, his switch on me didn't look organic, like not whatsoever. Looks more like he was OMGUS locked in on scum on me right up until he replaced in, then saw he was scum and that I wasn't on his team. Like he was let down that he was wrong on me lol. And his progression recently on me also doesn't make sense, he seems confident in me being town, and yet when Hallia says I'm her strongest town read he questions it strongly and suggests that since I've been wrong on a couple of people (ONLY A COUPLE BTW, I said over and over my push on Tommy was fake) I shouldn't be read as town. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

Alanna having such low low low thread presence since I "caught" her on that slip, and that makes me feel I might have been right on her.

 

BFKey conveniently targeting the NK on N2, and then NOT being the NK last night seems a little weird to me. Seems like if they were town, scum would want to get rid of them sooner since they have the capability to block NK's, and either clear or catch one of them in the process. Also BFG has done VERY little to impress me this game. Considering Arsis was telling the truth, it seems likely to me that they were the ones who were lying. I dunno tho, Krak might have still modspewed them...

 

Rags I mostly kind of didn't look closely at cause he seemed so convinced Verb was scum, which I was agreeing with at the time. Will have to check his iso soon I think, he has also done very little that seems memorable this game.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

N1 Result: Pral did not target anyone

N2 Result: BFKey targetted Tommy

N3 Result: NA failed to return a result

 

So you can ask Pral or BFKey what they know about it.

We didn't jail Yates or Arsis, so I don't know if we were blocked or not.

 

I'd rather Lates revealed their target and then I'll see if it matched ours.

 

Why assume it was me or Pral, when we know that mafia have a blocking role?

 

We don't know they have a blocking role. Far as I recall, it was simply the alternative to lynching you.

 

Jokes aside though, considering the wording of lates' post, if it wasn't a town jailor, then it was either pral or scum that blocked lates. If not Pral, then I think we can assume the scum team has a roleblocker of some sort.

[Sili Quirrels]

Pral - we'd been left with Rags/Dice/Verb and either Serf or Alanna. I still think EOD1 wagons make Serf/Alanna an unlikely mafia team, which means I'm misclearing someone, and since a number of people were 'cleared' as a group in my POE it's possible that I've miscleared a group of people.

Have you read dingus' spew?

[BFG]

 

 

N1 Result: Pral did not target anyone

N2 Result: BFKey targetted Tommy

N3 Result: NA failed to return a result

 

So you can ask Pral or BFKey what they know about it.

We didn't jail Yates or Arsis, so I don't know if we were blocked or not.

 

I'd rather Lates revealed their target and then I'll see if it matched ours.

 

Why assume it was me or Pral, when we know that mafia have a blocking role?

 

We don't know they have a blocking role. Far as I recall, it was simply the alternative to lynching you.

 

Jokes aside though, considering the wording of lates' post, if it wasn't a town jailor, then it was either pral or scum that blocked lates. If not Pral, then I think we can assume the scum team has a roleblocker of some sort.

 

We do know they have a blocking role

 

Or they possibly could have viewed the person we jailed.

[BFG]

 

Pral - we'd been left with Rags/Dice/Verb and either Serf or Alanna. I still think EOD1 wagons make Serf/Alanna an unlikely mafia team, which means I'm misclearing someone, and since a number of people were 'cleared' as a group in my POE it's possible that I've miscleared a group of people.

Have you read dingus' spew?

 

???

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

Sili seems MUCH more reasonable since he came back in the game. Meh, could be nothing, but considering how Berf looked early on (scummy), I'm thinking he's >rand to be wolf. Also, his switch on me didn't look organic, like not whatsoever. Looks more like he was OMGUS locked in on scum on me right up until he replaced in, then saw he was scum and that I wasn't on his team. Like he was let down that he was wrong on me lol. And his progression recently on me also doesn't make sense, he seems confident in me being town, and yet when Hallia says I'm her strongest town read he questions it strongly and suggests that since I've been wrong on a couple of people (ONLY A COUPLE BTW, I said over and over my push on Tommy was fake) I shouldn't be read as town. Doesn't make sense to me.

This is much better desp. (I feel like I'm coaching you).

 

But Sili, the person, tends to fly around a while for a post to sit on, and then he sits on that post for a long long while until that post corrodes beneath him, and he has to search for a new post to sit on.

 

Such was my experience with you. I had you as scum from eod1 to eod2. And your scum core was pleasantly refreshing. Then you acted like you didn't know if I'd flip town, in real time, and then after my death, waiting for krak to respond i was forced to consider whether i'd been wrong. I came to the conclusion your behavior was easily explained by your late arrival.

 

And I will never believe you didn't push Tommy for real. The only reason you backed off was because you didn't get any traction or leads from it.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

Pral - we'd been left with Rags/Dice/Verb and either Serf or Alanna. I still think EOD1 wagons make Serf/Alanna an unlikely mafia team, which means I'm misclearing someone, and since a number of people were 'cleared' as a group in my POE it's possible that I've miscleared a group of people.

Have you read dingus' spew?

 

???

 

He made a convincing argument for coria being scum. I've made mine thousands of times but no one listens, probably because I'd need to fish through her iso for examples.

 

Read his spew on coria. It boils down to a meta analysis of cory, and a couple sketchy things hallia posted.

[Sili Quirrels]

@desp.

 

in regards to my post for hallia, it was a rhetorical question meant to argue a point.

 

where you are concerned, i think the question is whether you're this good at being bad. >.>

[Sili Quirrels]

My poe for the moment is dingus>lates=desp>pral>alanna>rangarok=key>dice>hallia

[hazelkrs1]

Sili I kind of hate you right now. Take your condescension and go take a long walk off a short pier. You have 3-4 games under your belt and your mislynch was basically ENTIRELY your fault, as the way you were acting NO townie could have been faulted for finding you scummy. Basically you have no keg to stand on bro.

 

If I'm wrong this game, then I'm wrong. Doesn't mean I'm a scrappy mafia player, and certainly doesn't mean I need "coaching" from someone like you. Seriously, screw off dude.

 

Also, your "POE" is crap. I don't even mean the reads themselves, didn't look at them closely. I mean the format is shifty and doesn't make your stances on others clear at all. Clean that shit up, and use the lovely town/scum buckets from Monstr if nothing else.

[hazelkrs1]

No LEG to stand on. FML.

[hazelkrs1]

Before Sili, I just thought you were annoying, but that was because you were new in a world you didn't quite understand, and that your enthusiasm could eventually help cultivate a good mafia player.

 

Now I just think you're kind of a tool. Seriously, for you to think that after playing a few games, you are suddenly in a position to be telling other people FAR more experienced than you how to play mafia, or to be able to disparage DM towns for suspecting you, is just incredibly obnoxious and you should feel like crap for coming to that conclusion.

 

LEARN SOME HUMILITY MAN. You MIGHT learn a bit more, and at the very least you'll make it slightly easier for others to tolerate you.

 

Sorry for the outburst, but yeah I had just had enough of your arrogance man. Put me back on ignore if none of this is getting through to you, cause if I see similar behavior from you in future games I WILL rage at you even worse. Just stop thinking you're a pro already. You don't suck, and obviously have some understanding of the basic mechanics and elements of the game. Just for God's sake, stop thinking you know everything there is to know after a few measly games.

[Sili Quirrels]

Sili I kind of hate you right now. Take your condescension and go take a long walk off a short pier. You have 3-4 games under your belt and your mislynch was basically ENTIRELY your fault, as the way you were acting NO townie could have been faulted for finding you scummy. Basically you have no keg to stand on bro.

 

If I'm wrong this game, then I'm wrong. Doesn't mean I'm a scrappy mafia player, and certainly doesn't mean I need "coaching" from someone like you. Seriously, screw off dude.

 

Also, your "POE" is crap. I don't even mean the reads themselves, didn't look at them closely. I mean the format is shifty and doesn't make your stances on others clear at all. Clean that shit up, and use the lovely town/scum buckets from Monstr if nothing else.

okay, forget i tried to help. it's just i feel i have a better foundation than you.

 

sooner or later perhaps you'll realize that a person doesn't come into mafia without the tools to fend for themselves. experience means less than you think it does.

 

my poe is okay, lazy as it is.

 

here:

 

10/90 Town: you, dingus, lates.

 

25/75 Null: Pral, Alanna

 

50/50 Possible wolfpack: dice, key, ragnarok

 

70/30 wolfpack: hallia

[Sili Quirrels]

Before Sili, I just thought you were annoying, but that was because you were new in a world you didn't quite understand, and that your enthusiasm could eventually help cultivate a good mafia player.

 

Now I just think you're kind of a tool. Seriously, for you to think that after playing a few games, you are suddenly in a position to be telling other people FAR more experienced than you how to play mafia, or to be able to disparage DM towns for suspecting you, is just incredibly obnoxious and you should feel like crap for coming to that conclusion.

 

LEARN SOME HUMILITY MAN. You MIGHT learn a bit more, and at the very least you'll make it slightly easier for others to tolerate you.

 

Sorry for the outburst, but yeah I had just had enough of your arrogance man. Put me back on ignore if none of this is getting through to you, cause if I see similar behavior from you in future games I WILL rage at you even worse. Just stop thinking you're a pro already. You don't suck, and obviously have some understanding of the basic mechanics and elements of the game. Just for God's sake, stop thinking you know everything there is to know after a few measly games.

I have humility when I deserve it. /shrug.

 

I feel bad for going through day 2 thinking you were scum, verbal was scum, and pral was scum, just because you were inactive day 1. That was stupid and I hate myself for it.

 

I was paranoid of arsis, and I misread him. I don't think I actually know whether alanna is town and that scares me. I have a lot of trouble reading tom, and i think he'll trick me next time we play together. i have no idea how qt chat functions if you're making a game, etc.

 

I am ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE at logical sequences. The [redacted] worst. and I often have TERRIBLE WIM.

 

AND I SPAM A LOT making it a difficult play space for other players. That's the kind of thing I feel bad about.

[Sili Quirrels]

that said, I can read tone pretty well and I understand people better than a few. So forgive me if I think you're doing it wrong. I won't belabor the point with examples.

[hazelkrs1]

We didn't jail Yates or Arsis, so I don't know if we were blocked or not.

I'd rather Lates revealed their target and then I'll see if it matched ours.

 

Why assume it was me or Pral, when we know that mafia have a blocking role?

 

What sucks is there are obvious town and scum angles for bolded. Protown side is that BFG might wanna catch Lates in a lie, Proscum angle is that BFG is scared to be caught in a lie herself. Meh.

 

Such was my experience with you. I had you as scum from eod1 to eod2. And your scum core was pleasantly refreshing. Then you acted like you didn't know if I'd flip town, in real time, and then after my death, waiting for krak to respond i was forced to consider whether i'd been wrong. I came to the conclusion your behavior was easily explained by your late arrival.

 

And I will never believe you didn't push Tommy for real. The only reason you backed off was because you didn't get any traction or leads from it.

 

Bold: Plausible. However it's still plausible that I'm exactly right in what I said about you.

 

Italics: And I could give two shrimpy dog turds about whether or not you believe me. It's the truth. Those with enough experience with me know I leave false trails with my reads a lot as town.

 

in regards to my post for hallia, it was a rhetorical question meant to argue a point.

 

Don't buy this explanation

 

 

Sili I kind of hate you right now. Take your condescension and go take a long walk off a short pier. You have 3-4 games under your belt and your mislynch was basically ENTIRELY your fault, as the way you were acting NO townie could have been faulted for finding you scummy. Basically you have no keg to stand on bro.

 

If I'm wrong this game, then I'm wrong. Doesn't mean I'm a scrappy mafia player, and certainly doesn't mean I need "coaching" from someone like you. Seriously, screw off dude.

 

Also, your "POE" is crap. I don't even mean the reads themselves, didn't look at them closely. I mean the format is shifty and doesn't make your stances on others clear at all. Clean that shit up, and use the lovely town/scum buckets from Monstr if nothing else.

okay, forget i tried to help. it's just i feel i have a better foundation than you.

 

sooner or later perhaps you'll realize that a person doesn't come into mafia without the tools to fend for themselves. experience means less than you think it does.

 

You haven't played enough games with me to make that kind of judgement, that you have a better foundation or w/e. I haven't been as solid as I used to as town lately, but I think part of that is I am still a little bit too obstinate in my reads at times (I have a big fear of being talked out of a read on someone that ends up being right) and a big part is I used to really rely on rereads to help me reevaluate the game better and come to better conclusions as the game went on. Not going to even try to attempt to reread a game that gets as big and spammy as this one has.

 

So w/e, judge me all you want and think you're already a better mafia player, I'm just saying I'm not the only person you play with who will find that attitude almost unbearable to play with. This is at the end of the day still a game, and if enough people that play this game are put off by your attitude and behavior, you're going to have a tough road ahead. Assuming you actually enjoy this game and want to continue to hone your skills and get along with others in this game, you seriously are going to want to rethink your attitude and how much you actually know about this game and the people who play it.

[Sili Quirrels]

desp, i'll apologize tomorrow for acting like i know better, because you took offense.

 

it was bad tone. the more i think about it the worse i feel.

 

sorry.

[hazelkrs1]

 

Before Sili, I just thought you were annoying, but that was because you were new in a world you didn't quite understand, and that your enthusiasm could eventually help cultivate a good mafia player.

 

Now I just think you're kind of a tool. Seriously, for you to think that after playing a few games, you are suddenly in a position to be telling other people FAR more experienced than you how to play mafia, or to be able to disparage DM towns for suspecting you, is just incredibly obnoxious and you should feel like crap for coming to that conclusion.

 

LEARN SOME HUMILITY MAN. You MIGHT learn a bit more, and at the very least you'll make it slightly easier for others to tolerate you.

 

Sorry for the outburst, but yeah I had just had enough of your arrogance man. Put me back on ignore if none of this is getting through to you, cause if I see similar behavior from you in future games I WILL rage at you even worse. Just stop thinking you're a pro already. You don't suck, and obviously have some understanding of the basic mechanics and elements of the game. Just for God's sake, stop thinking you know everything there is to know after a few measly games.

I have humility when I deserve it. /shrug.

 

I feel bad for going through day 2 thinking you were scum, verbal was scum, and pral was scum, just because you were inactive day 1. That was stupid and I hate myself for it.

 

I was paranoid of arsis, and I misread him. I don't think I actually know whether alanna is town and that scares me. I have a lot of trouble reading tom, and i think he'll trick me next time we play together. i have no idea how qt chat functions if you're making a game, etc.

 

I am ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE at logical sequences. The [redacted] worst. and I often have TERRIBLE WIM.

 

AND I SPAM A LOT making it a difficult play space for other players. That's the kind of thing I feel bad about.

 

 

He edited! Obvscum!!!!!!

 

You SHOULD feel bad for the spam. You SHOULDN'T feel bad for being wrong on people. You SHOULD feel bad for being arrogant enough to "coach" other people when you still have a lot to learn about this game.

 

that said, I can read tone pretty well and I understand people better than a few. So forgive me if I think you're doing it wrong. I won't belabor the point with examples.

 

Tone reading isn't as reliable as you think it is. And you haven't been "right" on any scum this game because no one has, there are no scumflips to prove anyone "better" than anyone else this game.

 

And even if there were, that would just prove you were better, or had a better handle on, THIS GAME. Doesn't mean you need to go out and anoint yourself the king of all forum mafia games.

 

I joke about having a big ego when it comes to mafia. Partially because it amuses me and is kinda my "schtick" here on DM, and partially because I use that to help lend weight to cases at times. Those that know me well enough know it is all an act tho, and tho I find myself to be a fairly competent mafia player, I'm also very aware of my (many) shortcomings, and I by no means think I'm one of the best around. Truth is it is MUCH harder to discern who the "best" mafia players are in just about any environment. You'll see some players achieve near-legendary status because everyone remembers some famous gambit they did, or specific game they tricked everyone or something, but those same players will often have games here or there where they stink up the joint.

 

Then you'll have players who don't have nearly as much fame or acclaim, yet often have brilliant instincts and don't really get the recognition they deserve. Most of the time tho, that doesn't even bother them.

 

People play this game TO HAVE FUN. There are a myriad of different playstyles, and advantages and disadvantages to each. But just about all of them are valid and each bring their own unique flair to the game, and that's part of what makes mafia so much fun. There's no "right" way to play.

 

So again, get off your high horse, because I guarantee you'll come crashing down at some point, and along the way if you don't learn some humility you'll piss off a lot of people who would normally be the ones trying to have fun with you here.

[hazelkrs1]

desp, i'll apologize tomorrow for acting like i know better, because you took offense.

 

it was bad tone. the more i think about it the worse i feel.

 

sorry.

 

That's fine, I can be quick to anger, but also quick to forgive, so just please understand that I'm prob not the only one who would react in such a way to the attitude you were displaying a bit ago.

 

Again, just keep in mind that you ARE still new to this enviroment, and there is still a lot you can learn from other players. Maybe I'm not one of them, that's fine. But I assure you that you haven't played enough games with me yet to know whether or not that's the case.

[Leelou]

 

N1 Result: Pral did not target anyone

N2 Result: BFKey targetted Tommy

N3 Result: NA failed to return a result

 

So you can ask Pral or BFKey what they know about it.

We didn't jail Yates or Arsis, so I don't know if we were blocked or not.

 

I'd rather Lates revealed their target and then I'll see if it matched ours.

 

Why assume it was me or Pral, when we know that mafia have a blocking role?

 

 

According to how roles work, even if you were jailing them we should have seen who they were targeting. Please reveal who you jailed first. 

[Leelou]

We still need to hear from Pral, right? 

[hazelkrs1]

Anyways, just gonna do a quick POE now, before I go blow off some steam. SoC (@Sili: stands for Stream of Consciousness) followed by POE

 

Pray - So I said before that his claim seemed more believable to me actually, since I didn't see the scum motivation in faking an ability or claiming a hidden one after recently being cop cleared. And I also gave my thoughts on how even if Hallia was scum Pray was likely still town. I WILL say that part of why I believed the claim somewhat was associative, and that I thought his reads matching mine looked good for him. That's kind of out the window now obv. However, when he first started mindmelding with me, his scum team then was Alanna/Sili/BFKey. Only ONE of those has shown to be wrong so far, and I think it's very plausible the other two could still flip scum. I might check to see how he progressed on the other reads since then, but yeah he's prob still green for me

 

Alanna - I think she fell by the wayside the past couple of days. First Sili 1.0 got lynched, and then all the claims made me think it would be better to go with a non-claimed PR, and yeah I feel like she has gotten off crazy lucky. I still think that I potentially caught her in a slip, and her thread presence since then obviously doesn't make me feel better about her slot. Also, if Serf is scum, I think her and BFKey are VERY likely to be judging from EOD actions. Reddish orange for me.

 

Rags - He's one I want to iso actually. Wasn't paying attention to him much cause he entered the game so late, and then started thinking he was town for his Verb suspicions. Don't really remember anything else from him besides that tho, so with that out the window he could def be scum here. Could put him at orange, depending on POE might have him as gray.

 

Lates - The way they've clarified the circumstances around their role makes me want to believe them. Also Leelou's tone has looked good most the game, and usually if scum I can pick out some scummy tone here and there. Yates has looked like he's trying to solve almost anytime he posts, so that alone makes me think they're >rand to be town. Overall tho the lack of major irregularities leads me to believe they're town here. Blueish green.

 

Hallia - Look, I could just be wrong there. And her doctoring me supposedly last night IS weird I must say. I just think I'm one of the people that can read Hallia fairly well, honestly maybe even better than Cory, and yeah she just reads as town to me. I'll admit that even now part of that read is also associative because of the people who have pushed her as scum, but yeah I think as scum she'd be making more plays to clear teammates, and her NA claims don't really seem to be doing this at all. I also didn't think Cory's posts before he left were that bad. If I'm wrong here then throw stuff @ me in postgame, but I'm not as affected by Hallia's charms as others, I have glady and doggedly gone after her as scum before even tho I love her, and yeah I just don't see her flipping scum this game. Blue for me. If she's pocketing me and "getting away with it", good for her I guess.

 

BFKey - BFG really never did pick up momentum like I thought she would as town. And there seems to be at least a few irregularities with their role claim here- they claim to have JK'ed Manbat N1, and there was some thoughts (shared by me in fact) that that didn't make much sense as a target, that Tommy's BP claim made him a MUCH better target. Then there's the next night, where they were seen targeting the NK. OBVIOUSLY we could just be overthinking it with all the other stuff, and that they just killed Tommy. And then, last night when it seems scum would have wanted to kill the protection role since that would be a bigger threat to them, they instead kill the Watcher. More significantly, Lates is claiming to have been blocked last night. Why would scum kill the Watcher, and NOT block the JK to make their kill have a better chance of going through??? To me, this means there is def scum between Lates and BFKey, and my money is def on BFKey here. Lates mentioned very early that they were blocked, and didn't make it vague even tho they had the opportunity to. BFG instead was cautious and didn't want to reveal her target (maybe because she is worried Lates is making a gambit and Tracked them last night). BFKey is red for me.

 

Monstrmanbat - Blue. Bluest member of the village. Role is VERY likely to be present here, and has shown his villager side all game. If he flips scum this game, everything officially will never make sense again.

 

Dice - I've made a lot of my recent thoughts known on him. I also did a mini iso on him. Main thing is his tone lately doesn't seem like how Villa Dice would be acting with town in the hole it is. It's lazy and meh. Dice would be eager to try GOATing it up at this point and help rescue out of this hole. Also feel like he was trying to lay the foundation for voting me today with his comments on Verb yesterday, and his actions support this observation. His arguing that Tommy should be killed at some point even if the BP claim was true was wolfy, and dear God ONE of the people that was pushing that angle has to be scum. Red for me.

 

Sili - Also made some of my thoughts known on him recently. He doesn't seem like a reasonable person, yet him changing his tune and acting much more... reasonable lately would be something that a reasonable person would do in his shoes. Instead, his change in behavior and mannerisms seems more likely to be due to change in alignment. However, I'd need more specific stuff to feel better about putting him red. Orange for me.

 

So that means my POE looks like this atm:

 

Manbat

Hallia

Lates

Pray

Rags

Sili/Berf/Serf

Alanna

BFKey

Dice

[dicetosser1]

allright lets try and answer this

 

Just started audit but I DID want to go ahead and discuss what is prob my top scum read atm: Dicetosser1

 

OMGUS!

 

 

Not really tho. After all, I was casting aspersion on him long before he ever voted me today. Here's what I'm thinking tho-

 

 

 

blue   thats funny   I seem to remember you going pretty hard after the same person I did. Can you say hypocrite?

 

Uh yeah, and then I later revealed that push of mine was a trap, you even called me Desackbarthera yourself.

 

 

yet you still went at him. iirc you also went at sili too didnt you?

 

Still at work. ><. Bowling on Wed so I followed along but have trouble continuously commenting.

Des - that casing is impressive!

##vote: Verb

 

seriously??  thats it.

 

unvote ##vote hally 

 

 

Alright so first of all, the reason I quoted this post was because of the vote on Hallia, but first I just wanna say Dice has had what I would consider the typical scum-type reaction to gambits in this game- act all incredulous, and scold the person who did it. He doesn't do it in this post, but the first part of it reminded me of that . 1 He DOES keep saying I went after Tommy, even tho I have made clear multiple times that that was a false trail I was laying to try and catch scum.

 

And incidentally, 2 he WAS one of those who was pushing to lynch Tommy even as a BP a LOT, and yeah I'll pull quotes on that later to expand on that concept.

 

Anyways, as far as the vote here, he seems to be making it clear that he's voting Hallia because she's sheeping my case on Verb.. but first of all the tone is a little off here. "3 That's it" makes it seem like that sheep vote just pushed Dice over the edge to make him want to vote her, but more importantly the aggressive tone there looks like posturing to me, and even the new and improved aggressive town Dice doesn't posture much, especially with his vote.

 

Just seems like a scummy vote, but what makes it worse is his posts later in the day when he switches to Verb-

 

gun to head i might go verbal.

 

hes been iffing along on me all game and his flip might allow me to solidify my read on des.

 

Im voting hallia cause i have not liked her recent responses.

 

So he says he might go Verbal. Alright, meh not much there.

 

4"hes been iffing along on me all game" 5 fails a tone read, and also seems like faint overjustification for a vote, especially since I didn't see Dice commenting on Verb much all game, even tho Verb constantly kept bringing up Dice.

 

Bigger thing is the "his flip might allow me to solidify my read on des" since first of all, this implies he has a townread on me at this point (and that a scumflip on the person I was pushing might allow Dice to solidify his town read on me) - which is strange considering his vote on me earlier.

 

Looks to me like Dice was trying to set up my lynch with the townflip on Verb- and this becomes more clear to me with later posts.

 

Anyways he also explains his vote on Hallia, which looks like a sort of thing scum would say as a throwaway line to justify their vote/read on someone- "6 i have not liked her recent responses". Doesn't say WHICH responses, doesn't talk about her sheep vote which was implied was his reason for voting her earlier.

 

allright im willing to try this

 

unvote ##vote verbal

 

After laying the groundwork for voting Verbal a bit earlier, he then votes Verb. I mentioned right after the flip how Dice's vote on Verb stood out the most to me. He seemed all passionate about lynching Hallia earlier, then acts like he is slowly convinced into voting her countertrain?

7 This is pretty much the exact opposite of how Town!Dice handles this situation. If he is passionate about someone being scum (and judging from his recent posts, he STILL is passionate about Hallia being scum), he doesn't let himself be dissuaded easily just to end up voting the countertrain to said scum candidate. He is MORE than happy to be a voice of dissent, even if everyone else believes something and he is arguing the opposite. He was like this even BEFORE some famous GOAT games from him recently where his voice of dissent was actually right on the money. So yeah, not buying how easily he ended up being "sold" on voting Verb, and letting his highest scum read (Hallia) slip through the cracks.

 

right thats it. i have decided to make this game easier for myself.  how? simple.

 

no more thinking.  its not working. here on out pure gut. and i already know where im starting and exxpect huge opposition.

 

This post set off minor pings for me when I read it, but now in context it looks worse. 8 Looks like a blatant attempt to set up a vote on me the following day ("i already know where im starting and expect huge opposition).

 

As I mentioned before, his post about a scumflip on Verb solidifing his read on me could have been scum!Dice trying to set up the next day's lynch. This strengthens that possibility imo.

 

9 Also, if he expected huge opposition to my lynch, why did he abandon it so quickly?

 

and i voted him early iirc

 

 

 

so like i said  gut time.

 

##vote des

 

And here's where he follows through on said "gut".

 

10 Again, he apparently had a town read on me before, and has seen me be wrong plenty of times as town, so why in the world would he suddenly go from townreading me to having a "gut scumread" on me??? Especially weird considering how much WIM I displayed with that Verb iso.

 

 

Dice, your thoughts on hallia?

 

 

Not all the way caught up.

 

Sure there are claims, but who can say who's are real or not?

 

I went with Des because he's my strongest town read.

 

 

Despot is your strongest town read even though he just tried to push 3 flipped townies in a row? ...

 

##vote hallia

 

 

answer enuff?

 

 

So again, even tho he expected huge opposition to a lynch on me, he abandons it that easily even tho I hadn't even posted yet?

 

Also again, this vote looks like posturing to me ("answer enuff?") and that is just not something that Dice does as town.

 

There is more on Dice as well, I already mentioned his pushing on Tommy, and then there's also his "I feel like voting BFKey today. Thoughts?" post. He's also looked more reactionary than solvy at this point, and is throwing out more throwaway small posts this phase, which is looks more like scum!Dice eager to put this game in the bag, than town!Dice desperate and scrambling to make sure town lynches scum this phase.

 

 

ok sorry bout size her but i dont know how to spoiler

 

1 2 posts means i do keep going on about it so much it requires caps??  i dont think so

 

2 absolutely true. I also pointed this out to people a couple of times

 

3 that pretty much describes my thinking actually. not sure whats aggressive about it tho

 

4 as you pointed out verb said many times he couldnt make up his mind on me. Seems like leaving a back door open to me

 

5  i had to lol at this seeing as a couple posts later you tell sili that tone reads arnt as useful as he thinks :D

 

6 I was talking about her replies in the couple of pages before that. obviously what i thought was clear wasnt.

 

7 thing is i havent been that passionate about lynching hallia. ive thought shes town most of the game. but every now and again in the last day or two she says somthing   or multiple things   that make me go hmmm.

 

8 actually that was a blatant outright hint to you that i was going to vote you. anyone who knows us would have picked up on it too i think. there was no subtlety here. was never meant to be either

 

9 because hallia dropped scummy behaviour again. 

 

10  Have i ever actually SAID i have you as town this game?  i dont think i have. could be wrong.  See what got my gut going on you was 2 things. that big what you posted set me off, then ure one on verb. Now the verb one was well written and i followed along  but he flipped town. you can say tommy push was a trap but we cant prove that it was or wasnt. so thats 3 towns uve pushed and 2 you pushed to lynch.  You are wrong sometimes, but not THAT wrong. and now ure after number 4.

 

i cant point to ure big wot and say THIS is what set me off. its a gut reaction to the whole post.  I did notice in ure push on verb you made sure to bring me up, in such a way as to give you a way of going oops   must be dice.

 

Also  you had what i feel is a VERY fake post , Since when do you say "wowsers"????  Inspector Gadget you aint.

 

 

believe me  if people were willing to follow me my vote would be back on you in an instant. I think your the big wolf thats getting miscleared

[hazelkrs1]

ok sorry bout size her but i dont know how to spoiler

 

1 2 posts means i do keep going on about it so much it requires caps??  i dont think so

 

2 absolutely true. I also pointed this out to people a couple of times

 

3 that pretty much describes my thinking actually. not sure whats aggressive about it tho

 

4 as you pointed out verb said many times he couldnt make up his mind on me. Seems like leaving a back door open to me

 

5  i had to lol at this seeing as a couple posts later you tell sili that tone reads arnt as useful as he thinks :D

 

6 I was talking about her replies in the couple of pages before that. obviously what i thought was clear wasnt.

 

7 thing is i havent been that passionate about lynching hallia. ive thought shes town most of the game. but every now and again in the last day or two she says somthing   or multiple things   that make me go hmmm.

 

8 actually that was a blatant outright hint to you that i was going to vote you. anyone who knows us would have picked up on it too i think. there was no subtlety here. was never meant to be either

 

9 because hallia dropped scummy behaviour again. 

 

10  Have i ever actually SAID i have you as town this game?  i dont think i have. could be wrong.  See what got my gut going on you was 2 things. that big what you posted set me off, then ure one on verb. Now the verb one was well written and i followed along  but he flipped town. you can say tommy push was a trap but we cant prove that it was or wasnt. so thats 3 towns uve pushed and 2 you pushed to lynch.  You are wrong sometimes, but not THAT wrong. and now ure after number 4.

 

i cant point to ure big wot and say THIS is what set me off. its a gut reaction to the whole post.  I did notice in ure push on verb you made sure to bring me up, in such a way as to give you a way of going oops   must be dice.

 

Also  you had what i feel is a VERY fake post , Since when do you say "wowsers"????  Inspector Gadget you aint.

 

1. I put ONE word in caps, kinda like I just did right now. It's just there to emphasize the single word. You certainly have been focusing on how I went after Tommy even tho again, I stated that was a fake push

 

2. Yeah, and that was scummy. Just because you were obvious about it doesn't excuse the fact. Lynching the Beloved Princess "before the scum can" is a sophomoric argument that should have never been pushed by intelligent people ever. Even as a tinfoil argument it's dumb.

 

3. The double question mark, and the simply stated "that's it" followed by the vote certainly isn't passive. Def somewhat aggressive, and also looks like posturing to me. And funny how you say that's what happened (that her sheep vote put you over the edge and voted her) even tho later in this very post you say you had Hallia as town most the game

 

4. Okay but you NEVER stated how you actually felt about Verb, all game really. And yet you say in that post I quoted that "he's been iffing on me all game". If that was the case, why weren't you actually stating that? Don't buy it.

 

5. I told him tone reading isn't as reliable as he made it out to be. Doesn't mean that I don't use it at all, I def use tonereading as a supplement to other parts of my scumhunting.

 

6. But it's still not true- you state above that my point about Hallia's sheep vote "putting you over the edge" is what cause you to vote her. Yet you clearly state in that post that you're voting her because of recent responses you "haven't liked". You're slipping, bro

 

7. Who HAVE you been passionate about trying to lynch then? Either way my point stands- town!Dice would be pushing his biggest scumreads harder, not jumping at something that makes him go "hmmmm" and kneejerk voting that person for it

 

8. Uh... I never said you were trying to be subtle. I myself said you were being blatant there. So.... again, my point stands. You were setting the foundation for a vote on me.

 

9. Again, not synonomous with recent town!Dice behavior. You yourself stated earlier that you dont tend to be ADD with your vote- you usually leave it parked on who you think is scum, and don't move it at the drop of a hat. Yet that's exactly what you're doing here. You usually don't look opportunistic AT ALL as town, yet that's exactly how you're looking this game.

 

10. No, your post CLEARLY implied you had a town read on me. Saying that a scumflip on Verb would solidify your read on me clearly implies that you were saying if he flipped scum, it would make you think I was more strongly town. So yes, that right there alone indicates you were saying you had me as town.

 

As far as you saying you've seen me be wrong, but not THAT wrong: HA! That is complete bull dude lol. You've seen me be insanely wrong numerous times. And considering I hard defended Tommy numerous times, including FOSing people that followed along on my trap case on him (while he was still alive) and building scum reads off of that, it's really silly to continue to act like I seriously pushed him as scum this game.

 

In regards to my case on Verb- I was listing you as an ASSOCIATIVE SCUMREAD WITH VERB. This means had Verb flipped scum, I would have suspected you more. It doesn't mean I could have gone "Oh, well Verb flipped town, so since I thought Dice could be scumbros with Verb I obviously now think Dice is obvscum" SINCE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN LUDICROUS. Your argument here, is invalid.

 

I say stuff like "Wowzers" "toodles" "gee golly gumdrops" etc. all the time.

 

believe me  if people were willing to follow me my vote would be back on you in an instant. I think your the big wolf thats getting miscleared

See this is exactly what Im talking about- town Dice simply DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN about who follows him on his scumreads. He pushes who he thinks is scum, and doesn't worry about how likely it is that that person will be lynched or anything. This sentence just locked me in on you being scum here Dice.