[Advanced] Revenge of the Marlfox

[hazelkrs1]

The sad thing is Tommy is making me want to tinfoil on him because yet again I don't wanna believe he could be this bad.

 

I mean, if you look at thread events and who he's pushed and tried clearing, it's just absolutely horrendous, and would look wolfy as hell in a vacuum. Him starting the CFD on Thane even tho Thane was ridic town, and then trying to clear basically anyone who was around during said CFD even tho IT HIT A TOWNIE and most people who WERE participating had absolutely superficial participation anyways...

[BFG]

 

Light green:

Yates/Leelou - mostly an early game feel, but can't remember what it was specifically right now, Key's concerned that Yates should be reading her better, AJ as well but he's survivor so doesn't care.

SHE is concerned? How do you think *I* feel? Frankly, and I know her current circumstances so I'm not holding this against her at all, she hasn't been around posting very much. She needs to recognize that her play thus far is not typical Town Key. So if you guys are Town? Relying on me or AJ for a Town clear isn't going to happen without more info that aligns with our expectations. Also, ftr, I have absolutely picked up on one of Key's major scum tells. It's one of those things that she does MORE of as scum than Town so I'm actually still giving her the benefit of the doubt before I come forward with that info.

 

We're not relying on you or AJ for a clear, we're stating our opinions. Csarmi stated something similar reasonably well a few games back. We know our alignment, that gives us a means to analyse the game that isn't open to the majority of other people playing.

 

Incidentally, without knowing what you're talking about there are 2 things that concern me. First you say something she does MORE as mafia, not ONLY as mafia, so you're giving yourself an out for after our flip. Second if you're using this as a way to resolve our slot, then I suggest you hash it out now as bringing it up later when you know in advance that she's going to start posting less is weird.

 

As for you, BFG, look at this:

 

 

 

 

Pral - don't understand how he can have AJ as 'null' after AJ claimed Survivor, reads like he's not paying attention to the thread which is unlike Pral, but also would have been mentioned in a mafia QT so???

I feel like this is being super nit picky to excuse your vote on someone not in the thread. At all. You made AJ "purple." That isn't Green and that isn't Red. What's the difference between "purple" and "null" iyo?

 

? AJ claimed Survivor, so unless Pral is null because he's unsure between mafia and Survivor (and that argument has already been hashed out on thread) I really don't understand what you're saying here. Purple is anti town (since we seem to have adopted Tommy's/Cory's colour scheme on the other alignments and strength of feeling), and yes technically survivor can win with town, and I'd rather he did, but if and when numbers favour mafia AJ will vote with them. Null implies that Pral can't decide between town and mafia, when there shouldn't be any question that he's not town. If that's not what he means we can move on once he's explained, preferably including the rest of his reads in that explanation as well.

 

Nor is it an 'excuse' to vote him. I've stated that I don't have strong mafia reads and am using a POE to find mafia, Pral is in my POE pool.

 

Also

 

Seriously, though, that was an uncharacteristically low effort post for Pral.

He's most likely scum.

 

Why are you defending Pral when this was your opinion yesterday (talking about the same post)? At the least why aren't you waiting to question us, until Pral has responded since you want to resolve us both?

[hazelkrs1]

Also I'm pretty sure very few people if any read my iso's since yeah, they REALLY show some significant stuff and a link between Alanna and BFKey (they both mention each other in little blurbs and either state discomfort or difficulty reading the other, but clearly show no intention of voting the other).

 

Def makes me wanna go back to slanking. Not sure y'all deserve DesGOAThera if you're just gonna ignore my well crafted cases.

 

Also Alanna's response to me was inadequate to say the least, Tommy trying to nudge her to look townier looks terribad, and BFG's reads list was bad.

 

As far as Sili goes, he easily has more wolfy posts than anyone in the game, yet multiple people seem to want to give him a pass "because he's Sili" or some crap like that. Bleurgh.

[berf]

Caught up.

 

@Sili - man, you gotta shut up and the play the game. The problem is, when you play the game you call out all your plays and otherwise distract town from other shit. The problem I have is that I don't think you are scum at this stage despite so, so much evidence to the contrary. Derptown over Derpscum. Overnight and today you've just flailed in every direction, and for the second time I'm gonna say it, it clogs up the thread for no reason. There are so many NO CONTENT posts, and it makes it ridiculous to try to come to grips with the game. It's not just you who is guilty of the last, though.

 

Also, STOP SAYING HOW BAD YOU'D BE AS WOLF AS A DEFENSE. It is a null statement at the very best, which is still pretty shit. Just stop.

 

@everyone - Sili is town. Look the posts. It's ridiculous yes, but that's derptown as derptown can get. And for added weight, look at your Despo v Tommy read and compare it with sili's.

 

@Arsis - Fully backed hardclaim watcher, with zero result on Tommy, and nothing countered. Three options - 1) Scum lying about being watcher or 2) is watcher 3) town gambit.

1- Scum option - can't see scum poking thier head out with the game like it is with a claim that could easily countered. Overnight, too, so it would have been done blind. The only counter-point is that it's risky as shit play FOR A TOWN PR TO PULL. But the scum motivation is lower than town, which then leaves;

2,3 - equally viable. 'trying to draw the NK' as a watcher is strange to say the least. 

 

Either way, Arsis is leaning pretty strongly town, but I can't quite shake my suspicion yet. With our hypothetical doc already overworked, I think scum will eventually confirm this for me.

 

@Desp - Seems to be ignoring me for the most part. I don't know how to read that. The Vig 'gambit' jesus. Lead the town on a merry waste of time so you can pull out a scumread? At what cost? We didn't have a Vig shot last night for whatever reason, and you might have contributed to that. Any potential real vig out there has to look at your play and think wtf. Let's just say I don't think it's the most risk free and result driven play Desp seems to think it is.

 

I'm still 50/50 on the slot. I can see Desp scum doing this, I can see desp town doing this. Either way I hated it. Also the @sili baiting. Desp has been around long enough to know what reaction he's going to get from a player such as @sili. What is the town motivation for the provocation? I hate that that rhymes. Anyway, Would lynch, not first choice.

 

@manbat, @rags coming off as town all through here. @Manbat what was your SK comment all about? Was it you who mentioned 'knowing' there was an SK? Because with @AJ in the game, I can't really see two 3rd parties. Unless AJ is telling fibs?

 

@Alanna suspicion is kinda interesting because I've never been able to read her. I can never discern any motivation from the positions taken on wagons and such, which itself is a minor ping because cloudy reads are not to be taken lightly. I'd likely go with the crowd on this but for now I'm still getting town vibes regardless. The RB thing could be a slip though, so I'm trying to decide wether my resistance to it is moreso due to the fact that Desp is claiming it as proof of methodology. Would lynch, not first choice.

 

@Halli pinged a bit which I do not like. I keep reading the vote onto @Sili and it doesn't come off genuine, and it might be a case of cory's absence highlighting the slot without a tonne of crap to hide it.

 

@Yates - You make a very valid point about the Beloved Princess kill not being a major deal, but that only stands true for the moment. My worry is more toward endgame, when the scum could potentially and likely use it to take out up to 4 villagers with any potential vig shot double misfiring. But you're town so carry on.

 

@BFG - Verb remembers me. That's independant of thinking the fundamentals of mafia don't change much, even after a few years. But sam as @yates - You are town, carry on.

 

For that matter, I really don't understand the @Verbal votes. I'm not seeing anything that changes my opinion of that.

 

@Prala anonymous, @Tommy still town, if I've forgetten anyone they've not done anything of note since my last post.

 

 

SO where does that leave us

 

No kills overnight.

 

No Vig/Vig Holstered/Vig RB'd/JK'd/Target Protected.

Same mostly with the NK - Though I highly doubt they'd holster N1 - what is the point?

 

My maths from earlier is all wrong now, but not by much. I still think it's optimal to lynch @Tommy asap. This is an issue than needs addressing. If he makes it to late game when the percentage chance of him dying increases, the more damage a double night phase could do for scum. With a makeup of 2-5 scum v town, two night phases in a row could drop that to endgame, and that's a scenario that could take place on day 4. If it's not the @Tommy lynch today, it should be tomorrow.

 

There's also the issue of survivor AJ. Let's face it he becomes a liabililty late game also. I'm being loud about these two lynches because they both hurt late game, and we're on day 2 with 2 people needing to die quickly and nobody really seemingly thinking it through to conclusion.

 

If it's not @Tommy, then the wagons so far are @Alanna, @Sili and @Verb, none of which I really like except maybe Alanna. I don't have the strongest scum reads because this game is off the rails with fluff and emotion, but I'd be happy to see a lynch on @Despo, @Praya for lurk mode policy, or @Halli slot.  

 

So ##VOTE: HALLIA - The tone change could be new meta or scum meta. The ping above. The fact that you had cory with you is also damning.

[hazelkrs1]

BFG your point on Pray about AJ being null is as weak as it gets.

 

I HIGHLY doubt Pray is considering whether or not AJ could be town- it seems tremendously likely that he has him as null because he is unsure whether he believes the survivor claim. So in his eyes, AJ could be Survivor (not much of a threat to town at all) or could be mafia or SK or something

 

You're clinging/reaching at terribad points to justify weak pushes in someone to save you and Alanna's skin

[Tommyrod]

Des if you feel that your grasp on this game is super tight and you're very confident in your leans, I'm willing to give them a shot since I haven't been paying as much attention, I'm mostly going on gut reads.

Your #1 best lynch for today is (remind me)?

[hazelkrs1]

Wow Berf that post was terrible. Terrible reads, you had exactly the kind of reaction to my gambit I said scum would try pulling (scolding me and mock outrage), and your defense of Sili is awful as well. Oh and then that Hallia vote. Ughhhhh. Soooooo poorly justified.

 

Couple that with Berf's wolfy reaction to the no flip phase change, and I'm fully ready to replace him with Verb in my solve

 

Alanna, BFKey, Sili, Berf

[Tommyrod]

What was Berf's wolfy reaction to daybreak?

[hazelkrs1]

Des if you feel that your grasp on this game is super tight and you're very confident in your leans, I'm willing to give them a shot since I haven't been paying as much attention, I'm mostly going on gut reads.

Your #1 best lynch for today is (remind me)?

Alanna. She got caught most cleanly by my gambit (legit scumslipped by not considering the possibility of scum RBing me since she KNEW her team didn't block me), and please read the iso I did on her, especially with Key's iso as well

 

Those two- Alanna and BFKey, I am SUPREMELY confident are scum

 

Both also tried leaving the door open to lynch you later after i ranted about your BP claim being fake, and both deferred to my case on that to ditch responsibility should it come down to it

[hazelkrs1]

What was Berf's wolfy reaction to daybreak?

It was like "oh there goes my maths. Oh well.

[Alanna]

Okay, I'm on my lunch break here at work, and I'm not caught up on the last couple of pages, but some of my thoughts for how we should proceed today. Yesterday I had looked back at the EOD wagons, particularly at the Thane CFD.  I think BFKey's vote was one of the scummiest looking to me. BFG turned up and offered to move her vote to consolidate. However, although Sili was at 6 votes at that point, she never voted Sili and instead waited until the Thane CFD had taken off. My line of thinking here is based off the conjecture that Sili could be scum, but I find their vote scummy even if he isn't. It just seems that BFG was waiting to be sure to see where the majority was going for the day before hopping on. Either way, I want to take a look at their ISO when I get home.

 

As for Sili himself, I'm just not really sure. He still reads mostly null to me. The main reason I'm leaning scum a little on him is simply because of his wagon stalling out a bit at EOD. 

 

After BFKey, I found Arsis' vote the most scummy, though that's based more on a tonal reading/his wording when he voted. The watcher claim has me holding back from him a bit atm. 

 

I think today I'd want to go with a BFKey or Sili lynch. Maybe a lynch on Pral. I would really like to hear more from him on the last reads list he posted. Normally I'd find it a good thing that a player isn't afraid to go against the consensus on his reads, but Pral made the same move last game, and I feel like he might be trying to skate by that way. Really need to hear more from him.

[hazelkrs1]

And now my maths is wrong.

 

Great. 

 

I mean yay nobody died etc.

 

Anyway I'm off to a bbq.

 

Here it is Tommy. Wolfy as he'll

 

Also makes sense with my solve- Alanna and Key both initially defended Berf's post, then started going after him softly, then when he showed up at EOD Alanna had that really odd "Why shouldn't we lynch you Berf?" Which could EASILY have been trying to set up a teammate to clear heat off them

[Tommyrod]

Well that's interesting. Alanna's newest post, I mean.

[hazelkrs1]

Oh look, another post from Alanna saying she wants to take a closer look at BFKey's posts

 

[hazelkrs1]

Well that's interesting. Alanna's newest post, I mean.

Not really. Looks like #damagecontrol to me.

 

You REALLY want to clear her, don't you?

[Tommyrod]

[v]#Alanna[/v]
 

[Tommyrod]

 

Well that's interesting. Alanna's newest post, I mean.

Not really. Looks like #damagecontrol to me.

 

You REALLY want to clear her, don't you?

 

 

You don't think the timing of her post pushing the other 2 scumleans you just listed along with her is interesting?

[hazelkrs1]

Like I said, looks like damage control. Last ditch distancing attempt.

[Tommyrod]

K.

 

Okay, I'm on my lunch break here at work, and I'm not caught up on the last couple of pages, but some of my thoughts for how we should proceed today. Yesterday I had looked back at the EOD wagons, particularly at the Thane CFD.  I think BFKey's vote was one of the scummiest looking to me. BFG turned up and offered to move her vote to consolidate. However, although Sili was at 6 votes at that point, she never voted Sili and instead waited until the Thane CFD had taken off. My line of thinking here is based off the conjecture that Sili could be scum, but I find their vote scummy even if he isn't. It just seems that BFG was waiting to be sure to see where the majority was going for the day before hopping on. Either way, I want to take a look at their ISO when I get home.

 

As for Sili himself, I'm just not really sure. He still reads mostly null to me. The main reason I'm leaning scum a little on him is simply because of his wagon stalling out a bit at EOD. 

 

After BFKey, I found Arsis' vote the most scummy, though that's based more on a tonal reading/his wording when he voted. The watcher claim has me holding back from him a bit atm. 

 

I think today I'd want to go with a BFKey or Sili lynch. Maybe a lynch on Pral. I would really like to hear more from him on the last reads list he posted. Normally I'd find it a good thing that a player isn't afraid to go against the consensus on his reads, but Pral made the same move last game, and I feel like he might be trying to skate by that way. Really need to hear more from him.

Thought this could be 'so specific that it's likely discussing a wolfbro' analysis.

[hazelkrs1]

Tommy if you truly are town this game, you really should just never use EID shenanigans to clear other players. You are WAY too easily duped. Or at least consider the results a lot better. Just being PRESENT for a CFD on a townie should get you like VERY little town cred.

[Tommyrod]

I don't think the post flows very well. Going from Sili is null to one of the best 2 lynches is an example.

[Tommyrod]

Tommy if you truly are town this game, you really should just never use EID shenanigans to clear other players. You are WAY too easily duped. Or at least consider the results a lot better. Just being PRESENT for a CFD on a townie should get you like VERY little town cred.

 

Well I don't really see Alanna as scum having the forethought to talk about how a CFD is fun and she's proud of town for pulling it off, so I'll be curious to see which of us is right.

[hazelkrs1]

K.

 

 

Okay, I'm on my lunch break here at work, and I'm not caught up on the last couple of pages, but some of my thoughts for how we should proceed today. Yesterday I had looked back at the EOD wagons, particularly at the Thane CFD. I think BFKey's vote was one of the scummiest looking to me. BFG turned up and offered to move her vote to consolidate. However, although Sili was at 6 votes at that point, she never voted Sili and instead waited until the Thane CFD had taken off. My line of thinking here is based off the conjecture that Sili could be scum, but I find their vote scummy even if he isn't. It just seems that BFG was waiting to be sure to see where the majority was going for the day before hopping on. Either way, I want to take a look at their ISO when I get home.

 

As for Sili himself, I'm just not really sure. He still reads mostly null to me. The main reason I'm leaning scum a little on him is simply because of his wagon stalling out a bit at EOD.

 

After BFKey, I found Arsis' vote the most scummy, though that's based more on a tonal reading/his wording when he voted. The watcher claim has me holding back from him a bit atm.

 

I think today I'd want to go with a BFKey or Sili lynch. Maybe a lynch on Pral. I would really like to hear more from him on the last reads list he posted. Normally I'd find it a good thing that a player isn't afraid to go against the consensus on his reads, but Pral made the same move last game, and I feel like he might be trying to skate by that way. Really need to hear more from him.

Thought this could be 'so specific that it's likely discussing a wolfbro' analysis.

I could see that. It def looked too awkward to look like a legitimate scum read to me. Plus look at Alanna's filter and how she talks about BFKey all game. Def looks like w/w comments throughout.

 

Especially significant is a post she made fairly early D1, when BFKey had 4 votes and were the only train. Alanna had already stated discomfort with the slot multiple times, but then says she isn't going to vote them because "they have enough votes already"

 

That will just be absolutely incredibly incriminating for BFKey with an Alanna scumflip

[Alanna]

Look, I'm going to level with you here. I don't like bringing RL into games, and I'm certainly not expecting you to ease up on me because of it. But I've had a couple of things that came up in RL the past few days that have been eating up a lot of my time and very much stressing me out. I am exhausted and feel run ragged. I would normally never sign up for a mafia game with the kind of RL stuff I have going on right now, but it was completely unexpected and just came up in the last couple of days. I considered asking to sub out, but both of these RL issues should be resolved in the next couple of days, so I'd prefer to try and stick it out. I've been trying to keep up with the game and pitch in when I can. I'm at work right now on my hour hour lunch break, on mobile, so looking at an ISO is not something that's feasible right now, or something that I have time for. 

 

I usually wait til later in a game day to vote, but I will vote ##BFKey now instead. I just have too much to deal with today and tomorrow. Again, I don't expect you to ease up on me for this; I am not asking for special treatment. If you think I'm the best lynch for today, fine. But I hope that you all know I would never make up crap about RL to try and get some heat off me, and just take me at my word at this. I just wanted to get this out so that I can devote my time and attention to this RL stuff for the rest of the day.

[Sili Quirrels]

@Sili - man, you gotta shut up and the play the game. The problem is, when you play the game you call out all your plays and otherwise distract town from other shit. The problem I have is that I don't think you are scum at this stage despite so, so much evidence to the contrary. Derptown over Derpscum. Overnight and today you've just flailed in every direction, and for the second time I'm gonna say it, it clogs up the thread for no reason. There are so many NO CONTENT posts, and it makes it ridiculous to try to come to grips with the game. It's not just you who is guilty of the last, though.

 

Uhuh.

 

Well while I am on board with my being town, I disagree with your reasoning.