[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

[csarmi]

 

Verb we'll need your pencil. We got a wild rodent on the loose.

Wombat? What did he do now?

He randed scum. Untolerable.

[Yates]

Anyone else find Des' vote odd given that I'm apparently now one of his scum reads?  Shouldn't he be on my wagon?

No. I think Des realizes there is more than one scum and is using his vote as a tool. Do you have reason to think Des won't switch to you towards EOD wagon time? If not, I don't understand your concern, here.

[Yates]

 

And you think it's likely that scum would be thinking the same way that I was at the same moment, even if it's something that seems small to you? There are maybe 5 wolves I know who can do this to me. Salami is not one of them.

 

Seems pretty thin to me.

 

That's all I was saying.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

I can see where you're coming from there, but Salami has played an atrociously scummy game. and that might be enough to lock Clov in unless you can give him something more substantial than meta. IIRC, he's said he doesn't really trust you this game.

I actually had Tom as very high town from early on based on the way he approached Csarmi and me regarding Leelou. When Csarmi voted for her and said I made a good point - when I really hadn't said anything that could be considered a good point at all - Tom asked him what point I had made. He came back to me and asked for specific examples after I dodged his initial probing. The only scum motivation I could could up with for him doing that would be is if I was completely off base and he wanted to help me push that lynch but couldn't do so without knowing what angle to take.

 

The strength of the read has decreased some as the game went on because it seemed like he was immediately disregarding everything I said. Doing so would make sense if he thought I was surefire scum, but then why waste his time asking?

Three things keep me from going all-in on you: the fact that I tend to scum read you a lot, the fact that you are stubborn despite being in the opposite direction from me, and that I'm willing to reconsider everyone if it's merited. I think your focus is getting more narrow as the game goes on. Do you see how Wombat has been expanding his? Do you see why I see one progression as inherently wolfy and one as villagery?

[Tommyrod]

 

I don't understand what you don't understand a lot this concept. Let me try this:

 

Think of behavioral psychology. Do you think scum and town will have the same internal mental thought processes given the same external stimulus?

No. However self-aware scum would be able to fake a Town's thought process simply by pretending they are Town and asking themselves how they would think as Town in that situation. Ask AJ about this. I think he and I are both pretty good at pretending to have a Town mindset as scum simply by playing the game as if we don't know our own alignment.

 

In other words, I understand what you are saying but I disagree with how reliable a tell that is because it is an angle I have exploited as scum in the past. If you want to say I'm giving Csarmi too much credit in that regard? That's a different conversation to have.

I'll try to factor it a bit less in the future but I think this discussion has run its course for now. Did you get a chance to read the Great Siliami Wars?

[Tommyrod]

Also, Tommy, assuming you believe anything I say at this point, you should drop Alanna for a bit imo. She's reasonable and insightful, but doesn't often towntell right off the bat besides having good tone. She should clear up a bit once we have a couple flips.

I believe that you believe this.

 

See how easy that is, Clov? I can be suspicious of Wombat and still believe he believes his meta tells on players.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Nyn, what's your feeling on Clov's play outside of the thing with Leelou?

 

He's scum. Like. I don't think he could look scummier to me.

 

On that one game where Clov got mislynched as town, Tommy mixed and matched some posts of his from a scum game with the ones in the game in question... and I ended up joining his train because the resemblance in wording and content was uncanny. But I didn't really read him as scum. The case just felt very compelling because his wording was so similar. On that day I learned that Clov's town and scum games are very similar and I prolly wasn't at a place where I could discern the difference.

 

Nowadays, though, especially after being in a scum team with Clov and Tom, I feel like I have a better grasp of his wolf game. He is not playing like town Clov. His tone is completely off. He's picking the low hanging fruit. He's not in solve mode. He's in mislynch mode. And he's aiming at what's easier. That's how it comes across to me.

Yeah, the "I have three reads and can't move to anyone else in the player list because people haven't posted" response was a bit much.

[Nynaeve]

All I know is that instead of looking up to Clov to help solve the game, all I feel like doing is smacking him upside the head. 

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

 

Nyn, what's your feeling on Clov's play outside of the thing with Leelou?

 

He's scum. Like. I don't think he could look scummier to me.

 

On that one game where Clov got mislynched as town, Tommy mixed and matched some posts of his from a scum game with the ones in the game in question... and I ended up joining his train because the resemblance in wording and content was uncanny. But I didn't really read him as scum. The case just felt very compelling because his wording was so similar. On that day I learned that Clov's town and scum games are very similar and I prolly wasn't at a place where I could discern the difference.

 

Nowadays, though, especially after being in a scum team with Clov and Tom, I feel like I have a better grasp of his wolf game. He is not playing like town Clov. His tone is completely off. He's picking the low hanging fruit. He's not in solve mode. He's in mislynch mode. And he's aiming at what's easier. That's how it comes across to me.

Just so we're perfectly clear, you no longer believe that my scum and town games are very similar, right? That's out the window.

This post is in the same vein as what you think makes Salami likely scum.

 

Self awareness, what is it?

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

 

Nyn, what's your feeling on Clov's play outside of the thing with Leelou?

 

He's scum. Like. I don't think he could look scummier to me.

 

On that one game where Clov got mislynched as town, Tommy mixed and matched some posts of his from a scum game with the ones in the game in question... and I ended up joining his train because the resemblance in wording and content was uncanny. But I didn't really read him as scum. The case just felt very compelling because his wording was so similar. On that day I learned that Clov's town and scum games are very similar and I prolly wasn't at a place where I could discern the difference.

 

Nowadays, though, especially after being in a scum team with Clov and Tom, I feel like I have a better grasp of his wolf game. He is not playing like town Clov. His tone is completely off. He's picking the low hanging fruit. He's not in solve mode. He's in mislynch mode. And he's aiming at what's easier. That's how it comes across to me.

Besides the thing with me, I'd almost have Clov in my town pile. You and Tom both have more experience with him and are saying he's scum, so I'm going to ISO him and see if I see anything different.

 

As far as Salami goes, I think I might reevaluate him some, but I still can't get over how much he's changed reads just by being questioned on them and seems to be trying to go with the consensus.

Not following you here. Would like more specifics thoughts on both players. Why is Clov almost town to you? Because you agree with him on Salami?

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Official Vote Count:

 

Csarmi (4): Leelou, Des, Wombat, Clov

Wombat (4): AJ, Tommy, Csarmi, Sili

Clov (1): Nyn

Thane (1): Des

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

 

Deadline Set for Friday 9pm MST

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20141017T21&p0=3862&fg1=80c2da&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1

Not Voting (7): SP, Thane, Pral, Verbal, Alanna, Yates, Hally

Anyone else find Des' vote odd given that I'm apparently now one of his scum reads? Shouldn't he be on my wagon?

Don't say stuff like this. It's scummy and it's bad.

[WWWwombat]

 

Nyn, what's your feeling on Clov's play outside of the thing with Leelou?

 

 

He's scum. Like. I don't think he could look scummier to me. 

 

On that one game where Clov got mislynched as town, Tommy mixed and matched some posts of his from a scum game with the ones in the game in question... and I ended up joining his train because the resemblance in wording and content was uncanny. But I didn't really read him as scum. The case just felt very compelling because his wording was so similar. On that day I learned that Clov's town and scum games are very similar and I prolly wasn't at a place where I could discern the difference.

 

Nowadays, though, especially after being in a scum team with Clov and Tom, I feel like I have a better grasp of his wolf game. He is not playing like town Clov. His tone is completely off. He's picking the low hanging fruit. He's not in solve mode. He's in mislynch mode. And he's aiming at what's easier. That's how it comes across to me.

 

 

I'll consider it.  I have trouble relying on other peoples' meta assessments though.

 

 

 

Verb we'll need your pencil. We got a wild rodent on the loose.

Wombat? What did he do now?

 

 

Oh you know, the usual.

 

 

 

I don't understand what you don't understand a lot this concept. Let me try this:

 

Think of behavioral psychology. Do you think scum and town will have the same internal mental thought processes given the same external stimulus?

No. However self-aware scum would be able to fake a Town's thought process simply by pretending they are Town and asking themselves how they would think as Town in that situation. Ask AJ about this. I think he and I are both pretty good at pretending to have a Town mindset as scum simply by playing the game as if we don't know our own alignment.

 

In other words, I understand what you are saying but I disagree with how reliable a tell that is because it is an angle I have exploited as scum in the past. If you want to say I'm giving Csarmi too much credit in that regard? That's a different conversation to have.

 

 

Yeah, anyone with empathy can fake a PoV.

 

 

 

Anyone else find Des' vote odd given that I'm apparently now one of his scum reads?  Shouldn't he be on my wagon?

No. I think Des realizes there is more than one scum and is using his vote as a tool. Do you have reason to think Des won't switch to you towards EOD wagon time? If not, I don't understand your concern, here.

 

 

My concern is that he's nudging my train but doesn't seem to want to get onto it unless it becomes inevitable.  That's a common way that scum try to avoid responsibility for mislynches.

 

 

 

Also, Tommy, assuming you believe anything I say at this point, you should drop Alanna for a bit imo. She's reasonable and insightful, but doesn't often towntell right off the bat besides having good tone. She should clear up a bit once we have a couple flips.

I believe that you believe this.

 

See how easy that is, Clov? I can be suspicious of Wombat and still believe he believes his meta tells on players.

 

 

As much as I can ask.

[WWWwombat]

 

 

Official Vote Count:

 

Csarmi (4): Leelou, Des, Wombat, Clov

Wombat (4): AJ, Tommy, Csarmi, Sili

Clov (1): Nyn

Thane (1): Des

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

 

Deadline Set for Friday 9pm MST

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20141017T21&p0=3862&fg1=80c2da&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1

Not Voting (7): SP, Thane, Pral, Verbal, Alanna, Yates, Hally

Anyone else find Des' vote odd given that I'm apparently now one of his scum reads? Shouldn't he be on my wagon?

Don't say stuff like this. It's scummy and it's bad.

 

 

You want me to be more direct?  I don't get Des' vote.  I think it's crap given how scummy he seems to think I am now.

[Tommyrod]

I still can't get over Clov's ridiculously feigned backtrack on the "Lee Gambit."

 

Clov, have you discussed Salami doing pretty much the exact same thing you did -- calling Leelou scum and then rereading and forgetting why you thought that?

[Nynaeve]

I can't get over people not seeing how slimy he's being.

[Leelou]

 

 

 

Nyn, what's your feeling on Clov's play outside of the thing with Leelou?

 

He's scum. Like. I don't think he could look scummier to me.

 

On that one game where Clov got mislynched as town, Tommy mixed and matched some posts of his from a scum game with the ones in the game in question... and I ended up joining his train because the resemblance in wording and content was uncanny. But I didn't really read him as scum. The case just felt very compelling because his wording was so similar. On that day I learned that Clov's town and scum games are very similar and I prolly wasn't at a place where I could discern the difference.

 

Nowadays, though, especially after being in a scum team with Clov and Tom, I feel like I have a better grasp of his wolf game. He is not playing like town Clov. His tone is completely off. He's picking the low hanging fruit. He's not in solve mode. He's in mislynch mode. And he's aiming at what's easier. That's how it comes across to me.

Besides the thing with me, I'd almost have Clov in my town pile. You and Tom both have more experience with him and are saying he's scum, so I'm going to ISO him and see if I see anything different.

 

As far as Salami goes, I think I might reevaluate him some, but I still can't get over how much he's changed reads just by being questioned on them and seems to be trying to go with the consensus.

Not following you here. Would like more specifics thoughts on both players. Why is Clov almost town to you? Because you agree with him on Salami?

 

 

Because I liked the way he was questioning players and seemed to be trying to figure out the game. I'm mid ISO right now (just eating lunch) and I actually do have something I want clarification on from him.  My view on Salami is independent of Clov, but it was Clov's "gambit" that really made Salami stick out to me. 

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

 

Official Vote Count:

 

Csarmi (4): Leelou, Des, Wombat, Clov

Wombat (4): AJ, Tommy, Csarmi, Sili

Clov (1): Nyn

Thane (1): Des

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

 

Deadline Set for Friday 9pm MST

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20141017T21&p0=3862&fg1=80c2da&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1

Not Voting (7): SP, Thane, Pral, Verbal, Alanna, Yates, Hally

Anyone else find Des' vote odd given that I'm apparently now one of his scum reads? Shouldn't he be on my wagon?

Don't say stuff like this. It's scummy and it's bad.

You want me to be more direct? I don't get Des' vote. I think it's crap given how scummy he seems to think I am now.

That's better. As it stands your post reads "look how scummy Des is for not voting his top suspect" which doesn't work as an argument when he was specifically creating a counter wagon for pressure and said so.

[Nynaeve]

Like he legit spends half the time talking over my posts. And when he does interact with me, he seems to ask me about stuff that make me go eh. Like. TownClov would be blowing me away with why he's obviously town and I'm derping it up and instead he's like trying to poke holes in what I say. 

 

Clov, what's your read on me? You mentioned your scum leans and your town leans. And inactive people. I don't recall seeing my name in there.

[Tommyrod]

I can't get over people not seeing how slimy he's being.

Remember when I said you looked a little wolfy for being mad when people cleared Salami after his emo? Clov is that 10x.

[Leelou]

 

 

I'm confused as to why Salami followed Clov and then unvoted before Clov clarified what he was trying to do.

I followed Clov cause i thought we saw the same thing there. Then i read back up and it turned out i remembered wrong.

 

Then came Clov and explained he didn't see that either.

 

Throwing kindle on fire are we?

 

 

Really, I haven't seen much of anything.  In addition to what Nyn already said about our conversation yesterday, she should be more than willing to confirm that I told her I associate Leelou being snarky with her scum game, since I saw a lot of it in ABBA.  Nyn told me she's that way regardless of alignment.  Probably true, but I have minimal experience with Town!Leelou.  But I've seen a little bit of it here.

 

Content wise, I couldn't even begin to form a read on her.  She has a couple posts of gameplay, but it's nothing I can really analyze her from.

 

Overall, I think it's perfectly reasonable for me to have SOME concern about her.  Again - serious push worthy?  Not at all.  But enough to make me try a move.

 

So, you already know I'm town? Trying to get me to blow up to get a mislynch on me, but Nyn ruined it for you? 

[Tommyrod]

Like he legit spends half the time talking over my posts. And when he does interact with me, he seems to ask me about stuff that make me go eh. Like. TownClov would be blowing me away with why he's obviously town and I'm derping it up and instead he's like trying to poke holes in what I say.

 

Clov, what's your read on me? You mentioned your scum leans and your town leans. And inactive people. I don't recall seeing my name in there.

Feels like he's focusing on the wrong information, right? I see it.

[Nynaeve]

So, you already know I'm town? Trying to get me to blow up to get a mislynch on me, but Nyn ruined it for you? 

 

It is said I have terrible timing    *laughs*

[Nynaeve]

Feels like he's focusing on the wrong information, right? I see it.

 

It's good to know I'm not going mad.... yet.

[Tommyrod]

Just wanna say: Pral and Puppets are the GOATs.

[WWWwombat]

Impossible.

 

Hard claim: GOAT