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 A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

Kaylee

By Kaylee
in DM Mafia Games

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Pralaya Master

Pralaya

Posted
Posted

I'm kinda having an off day. Pulled a muscle and been in bed all day.... so I'm prolly not gonna be that active today.

 

But here's the Pral ISO:

 

 

 

Checks in. Throws a rant about the activity rule. Bla bla bla

 

After three RL days he posts again to say that he caught up to page 50 so far and for some reason decides to give his reads at that point, instead of finishing his catch up first. Says he has like 50 more pages to read, but for now gives AJ, Des and Alanna town reads. Gives some reasoning that look okay.... I agree about Des and Alanna....though I'm not that sold on AJ myself... we'll see I guess. Gives Wombat, Csarmi and and Thane a slight town lean. Null to scum: Silli, Yates, SP, Verbal, Clov. Scum reads: Halli Leelou me.

 

I think most of his town leans weren't bad and matched some of my own, but most of his scum leans are are baffling to me. And the reasons behind them were legit bad.

 

While I've been going back and forth about Hallia, his reasons for naming her scummy didn't make sense to me. He said she's too playful. FYI she's playful in both alignments. Says she's been buddying people. Halli always buddies people and is all sickly sweet as either alignment. He says he gets her vote on Alanna, which I actually get too. But that he wasn't a fan of her unvoting, which I disagree with. Alanna explained and Halli stepped back. I don't see what doesn't make sense about the sequence of events. He also didn't like her random vote on Wombat. Only I don't see why he's labeling it random. Hallia's first game related post in the game was her noting that Wombat was being over defensive. And when she casts her vote on Wombat, she chooses to trust Tom and AJ and follow their lead, which she often does when she's confused and doesn't know what to do. I did pick up a confusion vibe from quite a few of her posts that I pointed at in her ISO. So all in all the reasons he presented for finding her scummy don't really hold much ground imo.

 

Leelou's reasons for being on his scum lean list are totally bogus. Yes, she's been struggling with keeping up with the game. This game is super active with Salami, Tommy and even myself with up to or over 500 posts each. Not to mention the posts of all the other players. She works. She has social engagements I was aware of before the game even started and she always took care to post in the thread and tell us if she wasn't gonna be around. So her scarceness is completely null. She's not "lurking". Plus I feel she has provided good content with her posts. So not only do I feel like he's completely off base about her, using activity to name her scum is garbage.

 

As for me. I won't go into length about it because I already responded to him about it. But he starts off his explanation about me with "It does look like she's trying to scumhunt and solve the game, but I don't like her little nudges." I find it weird that he acknowledges this an yet has me in his scum list instead of null to scum since he did seem to give me at least some props about trying to solve the game. Then he quotes me openly suggesting my top scum suspect to be vigged as an example of my SUBTLE hints. LOL   And then later on he quotes me saying I have no problem lynching salami, while I'm voting someone else, even though I've listed salami in my scum leans, which included three people at the time (Clov, Halli, Salami). He claims I said it to 'play it safe' even though I did have my vote on salami earlier, but since people weren't really seeing it my way, I moved on to my next scum lean. 

 

Then he moves on to saying I've been buddying both Tommy and Leelou, who are also his scum leans and that all three of us were going after Clov. Only I've had Tommy and Leelou on my town leans hence working with them. I've been agreeing with Tommy a lot specifically because he's making sense to me.... and Clov was acting slimy. Not to mention that I find it kinda ridiculous that he thinks that us allegedly buddying with each other and going for the same person, for reasons that have been spoken to death, is a scum tell. But whatever floats his boat. Heh.

 

As for his scum read on Tommy, he claims he goes for easy pushes as scum. I don't think that the whole thing with Clov was an 'easy' push. I think both of us felt that Clov's tone was off. Fine, we were prolly wrong. But if Tommy wanted easy, he had LOADS of easier venues to peruse, like Silli, Hallia, SP or even Alanna. Clov would definitely not be someone I'd consider easy to misrep. So again, I disagree and also feel that the reasoning behind it is bogus. 

 

Tommy confronts him about this and Pral responds that it's the reasons that seem "easy". ie having a scum lean based on like one or two things. First of all, I think it's ironic considering the reasons behind Pral's scum leans. I also think this is false. Tommy interacted with Clov a lot and they had tons of exchanges where Tommy explained what it was about Clov that bothered him. It wasn't JUST because of the supposed gambit in the beginning. It was more than that. And I don't care for the way Pral is trying to minimize it into having one reason.

 

Then later on he responds to me and says that I was saying "Oh, I find Csarmi scummy but I am not voting him unless others do". Which again, is a load of horse crap. I had my vote on Salami. No one else was feeling the same way I was. So I moved to my next scum lean. But as Salami was continuing to ping all over the place, I responded that I was still up for switching my vote back to him. Then Pral adds that me asking for Clov to be vigged is scummy cause he's seen scum do it in previous games. Which is basically a made up scum tell from his part and ridiculous... I've seen people from either alignment doing it and considering that at that point I was all about lynching Clov, I think it was rather apparent that I thought he was scum and I wanted him dead. Him repeating his nonsense doesn't change the fact that it's still nonsense and it makes the whole thing even funnier because he seems to hold on to these two things to maintain a scum read on me that isn't even close to being warranted.

 

There's a whole exchange between Pral and Clov where Clov kinda defends Tom. Too dead to get what they were talking about, but here's a link to it if you wanna read it: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/91368-advanced-kronos-and-kaylees-firefly-mafia-day-2/?p=3357224

 

After catching up to page 100 he says Tommy and I look a bit better but still suspects due to the first 50 pages. Says again how it bothered him that Tommy was going after easy targets, which again... I'd hardly call Clov an easy target. Then says Leelou still looks bad and points out again how she's being less active, even though as I said before, she always gave us full detail of her schedule. I know people lie in mafia so you can never rule it out.... but I think that he latched on to this meta read that I wasn't even aware of myself.... ie I never really felt that Lee posts a ton as town and very little as scum. He says he doesn't like her nudges and gives an example of one post where Wombat is talking about Salami and she gives her insight about how Salami reacts in her experience when questioned about his reads. I don't see how her comment is scummy or why Pral read it that way. I didn't really see anything that bothered me about Lee's content and I feel like she is trying to figure things out in the time she has available to her.

 

Then he adds that Silli looks worse. I don't really agree with him but at least I could see kinda what he means. Posts an updated read list: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/91368-advanced-kronos-and-kaylees-firefly-mafia-day-2/?p=3358912   Then he goes on and votes Leelou.

 

Then after Thane flips Pral looks at the VC and says Tommy and I tipped the scales on the Thane train by voting him and according to him I took extra effort to clear Halli. Which again, is false. I had three scum leans, two of which were off the table as the game progressed. Thane was a competing train some of my town leans were supporting. I did a thorough ISO on both and Thane, while not horrible at first kept getting scummier while Halli started off looking bad but as the game progressed started to look better. I made a judgement call. Blame me of having sh*t reads this game, if you like. But that's about as much as I'm gonna allow. 

 

He quotes my post after Thane flips where I say i should have followed my gut and that I was sorry. He says it sounds fake which like... W/E. Feels like he's taking extra care to paint me in a negative way. Good luck with that.

 

He thnks the scum team are: Tommy, me, Leelou and Halli. I think he's got at least 3 townies in there, if not 4. I still can't believe these are actually his reads.

 

When confronted by tom he says he has given him the benefit of the doubt but that with Thane's train building so quickly makes us look bad. Which is, again, false. There was nothing quick about this train. He seems very determined to shift the focus on the people on the train alone for scumhunting. Not to say that there aren't scum on it but in my experience scum teams can easily all pile together or spread out. Hard to say. But I don't like the way he's trying to twist the wagonomics. Or the fact that he's not even commenting about Des unvoting close to the deadline while being the first one in the game to go after Thane or AJ's comment close to the deadline..... he sees what he wants to see and the rest just doesn't matter. I would have expected him to at least mention it since it was one of the things that were noted in regards to oddities around the deadline. It also bugs me that he keeps saying that I shifted the votes towards Thane. It was 6 hours before deadline and we HAD to reach a consensus. I did all that I can to make an educated decision and I have no regrets on how I handled it.

 

Then he gets all wha wha you're trying to misrep me. I'm not really doing much though, it's all you, Pral. I really hope I'm right about you being scum because if you're town.... might want to take a bit of vacation to get your mojo back because.... DAMN. Then he goes off at me saying he's inactive and throws around his 27 pages in a 177 pages game as being relatively active for him. Yeah whatever you say, Pral. Apparently you have no problem going after Leelou for activity levels... but when someone mentions your activity level you spit fire.

 

Then he says that all the people he called scum are ganging up on him. First of all, lol. Secondly, you don't have anything to worry about..... right? I mean if your reasoning is so solid than your cases will hold. Though personally I think your house of cards is looking kinda shaky.

 

Then Pral tells me off for expecting him to actually try to interact to see if... you know... maybe he's wrong about one of his reads... or two... or all of'em. He hangs on tight to his meta and says he never does this and how dare I say such a thing and omg, I'm so obviously missrepping him and this is EXACTLY why he thinks I'm scum lol   Sure, Pral. Sure.

 

Pral doesn't make sense and is twisting things to suit his agenda. Leelou didn't nudge salami. She gave input from her experience with him. I considered Thane since he was one of the competing trains so I looked into all of his posts and changed my stance which was a light town lean. Last time I checked, I'm allowed to do that. Tommy didn't start the game with easy pushes. He had every reason to go after Clov, which is NOT an easy push by any means.

 

Pral, all of your points are BAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd and some are downright false. I'm not sure if like you're completely blind this game or if you're just trying to stri sh*t up as scum. But the tone you're taking with me and how you're trying to victimize yourself by claiming that you're being ganged up on is you overplaying your hand. Can't find substantial rubbish to pin on me so now you're baiting me to show just how obviously scummy I am?  Heh.  You love your meta that much? Lets explore it. Usually in games you give your reads but don't push them yourself. Here you are pushing... and pushing hard.... you're out of your town range, my friend.

 

 

Nothing further to note really. I said my piece.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vote Pral

I am going to break up my response into readable parts because your ISO contains a lot of hyperbole and weaving the arguments based on your biased reads. Let me try to address your points one by one.

 

1. Hally - Yes, she did mention Wombat in one of her first posts. But, clearly it was two days later that she voted Wombat and no mention of Wombat in between. Are you really trying to defend her saying it could be because she was "confused"? Sure ! Also, your argument that she chose to trust AJ is bad especially when she called scum just a few posts back. This is one of the advantages I have had while reading the game in one go - I can see where people have mentioned someone and see them changing their story, which is a bit difficult to catch real time.

 

2. Leelou - The comment about her lurking was only in her initial read. Post that I have given more reasons why I found Leelou scummy. Especially I got that as I read the game further and which I have given in this post. If you seriously didn't find leelou's post to Wombat as nudging Csarmi, then I have nothing else to say. That was as blatant as it gets. "Input from her experience"? LOL

 

3. You - I have talked enough about you why I find you scum. Not only the opportunistic posts that i mentioned - which you seem to dismiss with a simple LOL - but also the clear amount of misinterpretation you are doing using my supposed meta. You do the same in this post too, which I will address later. I countered your points against your arguments in this post

 

4. Tommy - Again, you are missing the point which I talked about him. I did not say that he was going for easy people - I said that he was going for easy reasons against people. And, no, he did not have a ton of interactions with Clov before starting to call him scum. He started tunneling him right from the beginning where he explained his gambit. Trying to spin it as if Tommy was having a lot of interactions with him and then started calling him scum is ridiculous.

 

 

5. Wagonomics against you and Tommy - I have explained it before that the reason I find you scummy is because of the context, not just because you voted. It was specifically two points,

a) The votes were nearly tied up between Thane and Hally and it was a few hours before deadline that your vote shifted that balance

b) You were back and forth between Hally. And, you had gut read of Thane as town. Then at that opportunistic moment you apparently ISOd both of them and because sure that Thane is scummier than Hally.

 

I did not mention Des or AJ because their actions did not look suspicious at all ( I am intrigued how you are trying to nudge me towards Des or AJ here). Having someone's alignment wrong on D1 isn't a crime. So, mentioning Des for pushing Thane from the beginning is irrelevant here.

Pralaya Master

Pralaya

Posted
Posted

In addition to that, you end that post with another supposed meta read of me, which you know is not true. What i am seeing here is you trying to reinforce your scumread of me with a twisted meta interpretation suited to your benefits. That is my problem.

 

1. You talked about me being "more inactive than I usually is". Not true at all - as I pointed out how I had more posts on D1 in this game than any game before. Your response to that was this was a 177 page game. But, that is a totally irrelevant point because it has nothing to do with me nor with your statement on me. How am I more inactive that i usually am?

 

2. You talked about me being scummy because I did not "make any attempt to try to interact with you and your brain". Again, as I addressed it, I never do that in any game. This is your exact statement from the QT in Spaceballs "And he keeps having those with like zero interaction with the other players. He just observes and draws his conclusions". You know how I play and yet you try to use some generic arguments which is against my playstyle

 

3. And, in the latest post, you say that "Usually in games you give your reads but don't push them yourself. Here you are pushing... and pushing hard.... you're out of your town range, my friend". Really? Did I not try to push Cory hard in the Real Genius game? Did I not try to push Arsis hard in Cory's game when everyone else thought he was town? And many more. It is ridiculous to suggest I don't when you have seen it happen.

 

(And, before anyone else starts to say that i am trying to use meta to clear myself. No, I am just addressing Nyn's comments on my meta and showing how she is wrong)

 

You see why I have a problem with you? Especially when you are trying to really discredit me based on wrong statements about my meta. That is why I think you are scum.

Andrej Spam Master

Andrej

Posted
Posted

Pral talk about other on-goings in the game

 

If Nyn isn't a villager this round I will eat my wallet. I don't really agree with her atm about you because I have other suspects, but I want to see you expand more and take a bigger role in the game. Talk about something else besides her and defending your reads.

Pralaya Master

Pralaya

Posted
Posted

Finally, with this Sili/Des situation and Sili probably might flip scum, I realise that I might be tinfoiling between either Tom or Nyn. I am pretty much locked on Hally and Leelou as scum at this point. Clearly Hally's wagon against Thane disappeared quite quickly and I do see a scum hand there. Not to mention her OMGUS reaction to my scumread on her did not look good. Same with Leelou but her Than vote, her nudges, her playstyle haven't looked great at all.

 

That means, if Sili or Des end up as scum, most likely former, I am wrong about both Nyn and Tom being scum.

 

Talking of Sili, I don't think his ninja comment was a slip. More like he is trying to attract a lynch. Not sure why.

Nynaeve Spam Master

Nynaeve

Posted
Posted

If Nyn isn't a villager this round I will eat my wallet. I don't really agree with her atm about you because I have other suspects, but I want to see you expand more and take a bigger role in the game. Talk about something else besides her and defending your reads.

 

You won't be pooping change any time soon. That much I do know.

Andrej Spam Master

Andrej

Posted
Posted

I think if Sili flips goon or Godfather (with the cop dead) it very much points to him trying to distract the game from other suspects that are still valuable and give them opportunities to bus him to look better for it. IE - Hallia.

 

That or he really is being controlled and I'll just whine about it endlessly after the game because that sort of thing is extremely detrimental to Town as it basically gives scum a free shot at a mislynch or two and I think they should rarely/never have that much influence over a Day phase as it's really Town's only collective weapon against the Mafia and they can still influence it without the assistance of PRs.

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