[Standard] Cory vs. Bad Dietary Habits & Laziness Mafia, Mafia Sweep

[Tommyrod]

I'm bored, so here's a little experiment. This is a list of all the players with >100 posts. Of these, who makes you say "Wat? He has that many posts? I don't remember those."

524

Tommyrod

 
344

csarmi

270

Despothera

264

Yates

187

Arsis

155

manbat

142

TheSlenderMan

120

SickPuppets

118

Turin Turambar

110

TGlems

 

[Arsis]

Arsis where do you work again? Sorry if you've said before

http://images.nymag.com/news/features/dreier090403_3_560.jpg

[Arsis]

I don't mean specifically, I mean like a hotel or something? In NY or DC?

Nyc second most expensive place to live in Manhattan.

[hazelkrs1]

 

Krak hasn't given me any reason to call him town. Has he for you?

Post 2190 felt genuine to me.

 

The difference to the previous game is astounding.

TBF, that was the most effort I've ever seen out of Krak. And that's what's frustrating. He's actually really good at this game when he has time/puts in the effort. He just doesn't do it - for whatever reason.

 

Anyway, he doesn't have enough content for a solid read yet but that one post sounded good and I've been hoping to see some quality posts this day phase.

You're right in that that one post does look fairly good for Krak. Unfortunately one townie looking post DOES NOT a town game make.

 

This does make me feel slightly better about you tho if Krak is town- don't see a reason for scum!Yates to go out of his way to defend town!Krak when you could leave him as a later mislynch

[Arsis]

I'm bored, so here's a little experiment. This is a list of all the players with >100 posts. Of these, who makes you say "Wat? He has that many posts? I don't remember those."

 

524

Tommyrod

 

344

csarmi

 

270

Despothera

 

264

Yates

 

187

Arsis

 

155

manbat

 

142

TheSlenderMan

 

120

SickPuppets

 

118

Turin Turambar

 

110

TGlems

 

Manbat and sp for me. I remember slender being active although not as much day 2.

[hazelkrs1]

I'm bored, so here's a little experiment. This is a list of all the players with >100 posts. Of these, who makes you say "Wat? He has that many posts? I don't remember those."

 

524

Tommyrod

 

344

csarmi

 

270

Despothera

 

264

Yates

 

187

Arsis

 

155

manbat

 

142

TheSlenderMan

 

120

SickPuppets

 

118

Turin Turambar

 

110

TGlems

 

I pick door number 8

 

DID I WIN?!?!?!?!

[hazelkrs1]

And yeah, Manbat too, to a lesser degree. Cut by Arsis

[Tommyrod]

It rustled my jimmies last night when SickPuppets said "noted..." when I said I was going to bed. I'm guessing he was noting a soft claim but A) it wasn't and B) salami already claimed sleep and I'm not on his case so...??

 

So strange.

[hazelkrs1]

 

Actually Yates you're right that Krak post has good, honest tone.

 

I still want to lynch Turin; bonus is if he flips scum it clears Des and Krak to some degree for thinking Des's case on Turin was good enough to merit a vote.

 

Kinda worried Monstr has abandoned this game. Where are you monstr?

Other peoples cases are useful aren't they?

 

Why do you think Turin is Mafia? Do you think I'm Mafia.

 

Do you not think that Despo is doing his usual Turin Tunnel - although I'm along for the ride this time.

 

But seriously - saying other people's cases are sufficient is lazy and opportunistic. I do hope people remember that after the fact.

Does Tommy even have enough experience with me and Turin in games together to know we tunnel on each other? Would town!Ithi think he did?

[Tommyrod]

I don't remember the last time I played a game with Turin. House MD? Feels like he's been gone for ages.

[hazelkrs1]

It rustled my jimmies last night when SickPuppets said "noted..." when I said I was going to bed. I'm guessing he was noting a soft claim but A) it wasn't and B) salami already claimed sleep and I'm not on his case so...??

 

So strange.

I dunno I took it more as SP pointing out that you said you were going to bed twice

 

Still strange but I don't think it was rolefishy or anything like that

[Arsis]

I honestly thought he was screwing with you. Like you said you were going to sleep but we're still posting.

[Tommyrod]

first regarding the CS/Despo thing. It looked like a staged affair as it was kind of out of the blue with it escalating in a unnatural way from my POV. I thought it might be a way to stall normal game discussion until CS asked to replace. I don't think he would do that if he was in the middle of a gambit. Now that doesn't clear either CS(now AJ) or Despot. I still have pings from both of them.

 

CS for his kneejerk LD style claim which always seems odd and forced to me. throw in a little whyme in his response to Pray and a bit of overdefensiveness in his general replies about the quick claim and there is a case there. Therewas also the fishing comment but since he hasn't watched the show as I took it he might not know

 

Despo may have slipped also. He said that if he was asked if he were scum he would just say "yes". Then also mentioned claiming 5th party or some other thing but not just saying that he was town in a normal way. That came across as freudian to me. Also he chose to vote Wombat for his post buddying Darthe but didn't even flinch about Lenlo blatantly buddying Darthe in his original vote.

 

Darthe actually is not looking like he is clearly mafia and is working. I did see the potential that she was trying to step in and look like a peace maker where she could later claim town on town violence. Unfortunately that would make me have to lean Despo town, so I am conflicted there.

 

Did anyone else read TG's diagnosis for CS replacing out as him having TMI? It looked awfully detailed for someone not in the know.

 

This is Turin's first game-relevant post as scum in the House game. Looking for patterns in speech and behavior.

[Tommyrod]

Re: TG and deleting the post, It can't really be unsaid. as we already saw it. The explanation is somewhat reasonable I guess.

 

If the game allows editing then all posts can be edited. you just have to be willing to take whatever heat may come with editing out content. The MODS gave pre approval by allowing it in the first place.

Reminds me of his "plausible" reaction to TG's miller claim.

 

 

 

 

 

Even ignoring the nihilism presented above Mish is not worth the vote atm. She may become so if I see a bit more heat for voting her then removing it.

Darthe, please explain this statement. Just the bold.

I think I know what he was getting at with that line but if he wants to clarify that would be alright. If I am right tho I could see how he might not want to just yet.

 

Either way I am leaning more town on Darthe despite his overuse of big words.

 

 

that Despo is convinced that it is a blatant slip is troubling. Add in the CS thing and I'm thinking that he is likely mafia.

 

VOTE DESPO

The thin reasoning and forced connections here reminds me a lot of his current game.

[hazelkrs1]

I can't say that we won't though.

 

You can be bored - it's fine.

 

I'm going back looking for that Meri post and found Tommy voting us for stuff that Turin did. Is weird he now says we worth a vote because Despo's case was good.

 

Yup - Someone called Slenderman says - so what went down yesterday and Tommy says there were some other wagons, but probly only Turin was Town cos Hally and CSarmi are claiming healer. The Tommy quotes all of the votes and says Pral, Turin and Darthe all voted Arsis at the same time. Tommy then sticks with Turin's votes and does some more quotes to say who he was going to end up on. There's some weird stuff about Turin and Pral being masons - I can tell you that Turin is not a Mason - The Tommy continues with Turin being mafia because he stopped voting Arsis. Then a lot more Turin posts being quoted and Tommy saying that Turin is paranoid, so he should have been unhappy about the arsis wagon stalling.

 

THEN

 

A boat load more Turin quotes, saying he is Meh and rambling. Then the early quotes where he says stuff about TG and then I vote TG and then Turin changes and agrees with me. I did explain this btw - I don't discuss what I'm doing. I just do it.

 

AND THEN

 

After about 2 whole pages of quotes about and by Turin, Tommy votes us.

 

So why would he now be saying that Despo's case makes it worthwhile to vote us, when he spent ages doing his own? It doesn't make sense.

 

Still I'm glad I went back to find the Meri quote or I wouldn't have seen it.

...

 

[hazelkrs1]

Ty for quoting those scum!Turin posts here Tommy. I'm seeing a lot of similarities here as well which makes me feel better about this lynch

[Tommyrod]

Darthe, The player was the one that deleted it not the MOD. The MODs did not even ask that it be deleted as far as I know. They just stated that it was within the rules to edit the post. So to me that makes it gameplay and to be considered. I do think that his explanation for changing it was reasonable as I think I read the other game that he was referring to.

 

MODS, did you ask TG to delete his post? I saw that they asked Despo to remove the profanity thingy that replaced his gif(another good reason to spoiler the things)

 

 

 

Despo, i think you are either (my opinion is the former)mafia pushing hard on a non-caring Darthe while trying to setup up people that disagree with you as mafia for the next day's lynching or you are so far down in your Darthe tunnel that you can't see anyone else that even disagrees with you as anything other than mafia, except Tommy for some reason. Neither is really very helpful. The two recent FoS's at Len and Mish have been really bad. My take on Len is that he would have been in there telling you both to basically STHU about your little spat with CS. It looked too easy of a thing to start knowing that he is uber sensitive to pretty much anything. I don't have the time at present to go thru your list of bad cases in this game so far, but the off the cuff summary is:

 

CS for claiming in the way he did

Darthe for one line that I don't think you can say was a scumslip. And then for him not defending that statement in a way that you understood.

Mish for what exactly again? I forget. Trying to get credit for stopping your spat with CS? you were off the rails once he said that you hurt town when you are town. Now you are dictating what she has to respond to? would you like to just write her responses so that you can say they are scummy and push her sincce your Darthe train hasn't gone the way you wanted.

Len for being jokey? or was it for disagreeing with you about something? Oh his stance on TG. And the argument about wether or not removing all the content is the same as deleting it. In a practical sense they are the same thing. Lenlo is an engineering student so that would make him more practical minded IMO. That you are using a BS argument to cast doubt on him and defend TG adds to my thought you are mafia. First, it isn't really that important if the post itself is erased as others already read it and know what it says. Secondly your point is flat out wrong. If you remove all content from the post it is effectively deleted. Perhaps Edited would be the best way to say it but deleted was the word that TG himself used so...

 

Oh and you talking about clout is totally ridiculous. It doesn't matter who says something as long as it is either valid or not. Giving too much credence to rep is an awful thing to subscribe to. It allows them to coast on their previous rep. You saying that something is so doesn't make it more likely than if I or Len or Pralaya or someone in their first game said it. The arguments need to stand on their own merit. Merely suggesting that anyone starts out with more or less believability is foolish. As does the entire LOCK CLEAR garbage.

 

Despo is mafia.

 

 

good night now.

^ From House mafia also.

 

I do think it's funny that he's talking about TG and tunneling on Des in this game also.

 

XD

[hazelkrs1]

KRAK: just the one post that he used to vote TI at EOD yesterday and then his last second switch are enough to make him wolfy.

TG/Meri: beaten into the ground.

Arsis: still a little shaken about the coffee thing. Also, the jump at TSB from page 1 felt way off.

Darthe: His stated "read" on me in his list looks weird to me. Do you know why?

 

I am still suspicious of you and yates and Despo. Ithi says he is likely town just wrong here so I think I will defer for now.

Irt Krak- Turin kept going on about how Krak's post made him LOCK SCUM, now he's just "wolfy"

 

Irt TG- Really? Not willing to restate a better case on them?

 

Irt Arsis- the coffee thing was weak and again falling back on old and stale reads and arguments

 

Irt Darthe- not really saying anything here and looks like trying to get others to make a case for him

 

Irt the others- looks like Turin just trying to maintain his older reads, instead of trying to form fresh ones.

 

Def looks like scum to me

[hazelkrs1]

There are just uber strong parallels between how Turin handled me as scum in that game and how he is handling me this game

 

Also their last posts I've seen so far look like reaching or maintaining old stale arguments and stances- full on antispew imo. Scum resigned to their fate.

[Turin Turambar]

whatever. If you want to lynch me go for it. then you can figure it all out. 

 

 

I just don't have the time to play this new game of hundreds of posts per day. Can't respond while at work all day, to much hassle to dig thru piles of stuff at night. I would rather sleep I think. 

 

 

Good night. Enjoy the rest of the game. I will be on the road again the next 3+ days.

[hazelkrs1]

whatever. If you want to lynch me go for it. then you can figure it all out.

 

 

I just don't have the time to play this new game of hundreds of posts per day. Can't respond while at work all day, to much hassle to dig thru piles of stuff at night. I would rather sleep I think.

 

 

Good night. Enjoy the rest of the game. I will be on the road again the next 3+ days.

AtE and antispew says what?

[hazelkrs1]

 

@ithi I found your play D1 for what you were here for different to the Ithi i know and am scared of :D Do you think it is different to your usual style and if so why? if not why not?

I didn't see this till you told Turin off for answering lol.

 

Anyways - I saw something with TG and went with it. I'm not allowed to mention other things or having to leave as it will annoy Arsis - but other things were happening and then I had to leave.

 

And ha ha ha at being scared of me.

 

I do find it interesting that now you're asking me for reasons why you should agree that I'm Town. I guess with Turin you could have said - oops I was wrong, but I'm still me and you can't really say you don't know how to read me right?

 

The WHOLE point of Dice's post was that you were off your meta BEFORE you had other stuff happen and had to leave

 

Unsatisfactory response here imo

[Darthe]

 

first regarding the CS/Despo thing. It looked like a staged affair as it was kind of out of the blue with it escalating in a unnatural way from my POV. I thought it might be a way to stall normal game discussion until CS asked to replace. I don't think he would do that if he was in the middle of a gambit. Now that doesn't clear either CS(now AJ) or Despot. I still have pings from both of them.

 

CS for his kneejerk LD style claim which always seems odd and forced to me. throw in a little whyme in his response to Pray and a bit of overdefensiveness in his general replies about the quick claim and there is a case there. Therewas also the fishing comment but since he hasn't watched the show as I took it he might not know

 

Despo may have slipped also. He said that if he was asked if he were scum he would just say "yes". Then also mentioned claiming 5th party or some other thing but not just saying that he was town in a normal way. That came across as freudian to me. Also he chose to vote Wombat for his post buddying Darthe but didn't even flinch about Lenlo blatantly buddying Darthe in his original vote.

 

Darthe actually is not looking like he is clearly mafia and is working. I did see the potential that she was trying to step in and look like a peace maker where she could later claim town on town violence. Unfortunately that would make me have to lean Despo town, so I am conflicted there.

 

Did anyone else read TG's diagnosis for CS replacing out as him having TMI? It looked awfully detailed for someone not in the know.

 

This is Turin's first game-relevant post as scum in the House game. Looking for patterns in speech and behavior.

 

 

This actually got my attention for a bit so I decided to go examine his first few posts in this game.  In the post above I note that Turin has a tendency to double state so that people can easily follow him, is attentive to conflict in the game but isn't offering solid thoughts on what it means and is fond of balancing his posts.  I've done all of this before reading the posts below so that I can eliminate biases.  Now, onwards.

 

 

How do you feel about TG's claim, Turin?

I don't feel anything about it. Flavour wise it seems to fit. I am leaning to believe the claim. Not sure how Miller fits in with Standard type mafia set up however.

 

Arsis, is a quest bar some sort of protein thing? Or is it where adventurers go to tell tales? 

 

Turin starts this game reactively.  Instead of pulling a single post as I initially intended I pulled several to get a better overall feel for him in the early game.   What I see here is a sense of focus that doesn't quite match the scum quote from Tommy.  However, this is too little to get a good sense of things.

 

The problem with millers is that there is no way to actually vet them in a more basic game because the roles that could clear them are not going to be there. Claiming Miller and then playing uber town is a recipe to a town loss. 

 

Part of claiming Miller early is knowing that you may have to be lynched for the long term good of the town.

 

You could be telling the truth but without being able to confirm it then all it does is set up a bad situation later in the game. 

 

 

While this logic doesn't match up with the consensus as it currently stands it does fit with old DM meta so I can't find fault with it.  Again seeing consistency about a topic and a sense of focus not shown in the one quoted post.  Nothing conclusive can be drawn from this since it could be a ploy for early game credit based on relatively safe conversation instead of players but it is worth mention.

 

Tommy, the problem is that making the miller claim commits TG to being deep wolf. Therefore he will look as town as can be. Bussing as required and calling out teammates exactly as a townie would. If it gets down to lylo with TG still there, you (provided you are town) and the last person not confirmed. You gonna vote TG or the other person, say a VT claim if they look about the same game wise?

 

Personally it is a chance I would rather not take.  

 

 

More of the same arguments though perhaps a bit overreached in this post.  The last line strikes me as rhetoric.  

 

@Csarmi, in the case of a miller that KNOWS his view is meaningless, it gives freedom to bus easier. And hide convincingly among the town votes on mafia.  Let me ask you this, will you find him more or less suspicious if he is on mafia lynches?

 

@ Tommy, of course they all try to look town. but certain circumstances make it more advantageous to go the extra mile into deep cover. I don't like anyone getting cleared even temporarily for a unverifiable claim. Call it tinfoil if you want but I am not one to let such things go. 

 

@Yates. My point exactly. it is a license to bus. Again. It is the kind of claim that can be used to coast with. 

 

@TG. I don't care how I look. I not gonna let this just slide and then bite town later. 

 

 

This post is a tough one.  I have some conclusions that I draw from it but I recommend that everyone compares it to the post Tommy quoted (since it is the same general format) and provides their own opinions.  I've spoilered mine below.

 

I fairly hate the question he gave Csarmi since it puts salami in a worse spot regardless of how he responds to it.  It's also notable that the rhetoric continues through his statements to the players.  I would have expected questions to them with a bit of reasoning instead of the overdone "follow me" logic being stepped through in his responses.  

 

Quick flip flops from Despo are part of his mafia game. Show some examples where we are spreading WIFOM please.

 

Also no one was attacking us until after we took the stance that TG and his claim should not be used to put him in a LOCK TOWN category, which is what you just basically did by calling him nearly confirmed as Miller. I already stated that part of the gameplan with a fake miller claim is to put on your townie hat and take all actions to be town. Buss without discretion even lead a lynch on a teammate. Whatever it takes. 

 

I assume that you have actual read now so what do you think of TG and Arsis voting TSB right out the gate? Of AJ jumping on TG's words to vote Ithi/Turin? or TG nudging our vote but not actually voting until baited into it? Anything else I missed? 

 

 

This basically looks defensive and walled off.  I've bolded things that are a bit abrasive.  Notably, however, it's less clinical than the quote at the top.  Regardless of alignment I see the frustration from both members of this hydra as genuine and thus null.

 

Right now my lynch pool is TG, Despo, Arsis, AJ. 

 

TG as I have gone over and over. Not gonna repeat. The thing about townreading Dice off that one post is interesting tho. 

 

Despo is pushing a bad case (or at least what I think is a bad case since I know I am town) the manner in which he is doing it tho is what leads me to think he is mafia and not just wrong.

 

Arsis: I think he is either using non game play to try to kill someone or is hiding behind using non-game play to try to kill someone. I worry it is more likely the latter. Also the coffee thing is freaking me out. It is reading like some sort of soft claim or something but in a bad way.

 

AJ: He seems to be softly pushing in a lot of places but not really committing to any of them. Plus he is inserting he is town in what I think is an attempt to subliminally implant that idea into the thread. It feels like he is selling something. He also jumped right in behind TG's push at us without adding or even stating he agreed. just a sheep vote. no accountablity. 

 

 

Leaving you all with this post.  I'm interested in hearing what you think of it, made on the first or second day of the game which is nearly a week ago.

[Tommyrod]

Looking at Turin posts as town in Star Wars. Seeing deeper and more up-to-date thoughts there.

 

Here's a few.

 

 

You apparently are failing at reading Despo. Hallia's responses were in response to direct questions. and my statement to her was that between her two choices it looked to me like her TG case was stronger than her Tina case. you are either misrepping purposely or really failing to understand what is going on.

 

The fact of why I didn't respond to any of your stuff was that you out them all in huge WoTs that mostly don't apply to me. I have neither the time nor the inclination to delete all the irrevevalant junk in them to find your weak charges. Put them into a post without a bunch of other stuff and fluff and I will get to them in due time. .   

 

As to the LOCK CLEAR thing, I really should not have to explain it to you. READ THE THREAD. Asto the "White Knighting" ans her response, She hasn't even been awake since I posted those statements so you are talking out of your blowhole. Way to just try to fling anything at anyone that doesn't follow the things you want. 

 

Are you saying that Peace played a bad game? I doubt that if the mafia killed him the first chance it got. Therefore yes I want to see what he had to say. And who he interacted with and how. You want to throw it away and just pick another person that did "Something scummy" to mislynch. Your record isn't very good so far this game. You pushed Csarmi with a god awful case calling him obvsmaf. Then you switched to Tina after she had said she had a mafia lean on you. Then you jumped at Nolder(town) now you are back flipping between Csarmi, Tina, Me and TG. 3 of 4 of us have you as likely mafia. Pattern identified. your first two cases were against people that I have varying degrees of town read on. The third was on a confirmed town slot. Now you say that you want to lynch me but are voting someone else that has you as mafia. Way to go.

 

I'm town so I the entire NK idea is bogus. Of course I am also looking for his partner. all anti town elements must be dealt with. The idea that you just let survivors run around willy nilly is bad as was recently proven to town in the revolution game. The town can not count on the mafia to kill the other one. The entire game must be solved. Don't just hope that the survivor is pseudo-town. 

 

So are only the mafia the scum to you or is it all of those not town? 

 

continuous misrepping. I was referring to who the last elements could be. there are several candidates but no one is standing out too much. maybe AJ(Hallia)

 

putting your opinion in huge letters don't make it so.

 

Who and where did I buddy someone? 

 

Time is limited so you get what you get as far as following up on cases etc. .I am sure you want to lynch as many town players as you can.  

 

Oh and thanks for saying I am stupid because I disagree with.you and your methods. And the other name calling too. 

 

Good night

  

 

 

 

There was a specific post TG wrote about Des that I'd have to go digging to find, I remember seeing it and thinking "this would probably spew him clear"

 

I just went thru TG's posts and didn't find anything that would clear Despo should TG flip mafia. I also didn't see much in there to justify his being lynched today. Out of all of it the main pings to me were his town read on AJ(now Hallia) and his continued push against Tina who I have as very much town. 

 

I'm off to bed, but you've piqued my curiosity Turin: why is Tina your strongest town read? I find that hard to believe. A bit mind-boggling, even.

 

Feel free to answer while I'm asleep.

 

I read the thread? co mon mon you are Top Tier Tommy. You must already know why. 

 

 

Hallia. I know I don't save anything to any other documents or generally even take notes anymore so I can see that it is possible that Tina didn't either. 

 

What did you think of Despo wanting to squash any discussion of Peace's posts? To me it was an attempt to sweep it under the rug. basically trying to jedi mind trick everyone. "these are not the posts your looking for" IMO once you get a flip on anyone, especially a non-town person it is worth looking at what they were saying. The fact that Peace was a survivor to me means that he would be actually trying to find mafia as in general the easier way for survivors to win is with town. We also know that he had at least one partner so there is some value in looking for who his partner would be as we need to get rid of the survivors too. 

 

For me his stance on the peace situation is one of the more damning things he has done today. The push on Tina is another. The bad case yesterday on Csarmi(now Luci) is another. I think he has buddied Tommy excessively(also wondering why Tommy puts up with it but maybe as long as he gets Despo to what he wants it is all good to him)

  

Hey Krak. Welcome to the game. What is the major thing that leads you to put Tommy down as not town?

 

Pral, what do you think about Despo this game?  As far as breadcrumbing AJ(Hallia) as his partner; it could be a true slip, could be him laying a false link. That is why i said it is a pile of WIFOM. I am not ready to say it is one or the other at this time.  About Monk, I think that was a bunch of made up junk in many cases. Sort of setting him up to be Blackhoof of WF. 

 

Hallia , You said that you agree with Despo that character claims should not clear anyone in the game(at least in Csarmi's case) But in your read on Monk you have his play as scummy with a possible link to the dead 3rd party, but withholding  judgement because he has claimed Han Solo. that sounds inconsistent. So you would say that he isn't mafia but is 3rd party?.because that is the only thing he would likely be if he is linked to Peace.

 

I just read Tina and I don't really find much there. She was null on Nolder when he was getting run up hard. It would have been an easy vote to place if she was mafia even before he quit. Her posting about Csarmi wasn't showing her cards as others see it. Her vote on Monk is for what she characterizes as a slip where he interchanged mafia and town. Possible. I am leaning it was a mistake but I can see how she could see it otherwise.

 

 

My three non town reads at the moment are:

 

Des- for the bad csarmi case and the continued nudging at him. it looks like he is trying to force him into something. And his general wild flinging of FoS's all over without really being very dedicated to them.

 

Golden- subtle defense of Despo, He hasn't seemed too committed to his takes(except Csarmi which is null to me as it is coloured by emotion IMO) 

 

Cory- pushed the Nol/X train hard when it might have died out. stating that there had been enough info gathered on D1. Also what looks like over buddying with Tommy. To me he is looking a lot like Cloud in the Christmas mentors game.

 

There's a lot more depth here than there has been from either of Turin or Ithi -- the same depth that I have been trying but failing to extract from them all day.

 

He's obviously capable of it. It's right there.

 

It's missing from this game. So either he's changed, or the pair simply doesn't care for whatever reason, or he's scum.

[Darthe]

My biggest tinfoil in this game is that Des and Dice are somehow mafia with Arsis.

 

After reading a full 10 pages of the start of the game I now recognize that this tinfoil is ******* stupid.