[Standard] Cory vs. Bad Dietary Habits & Laziness Mafia, Mafia Sweep

[hazelkrs1]

Despo, explain me why Arsis is town.

 

Partially because of my Turin read, yes, but also because

 

- He is steadily participating ITT, isn't trying to slank it or just coast on an emotrip or something

- He is handling multiple suspects and paying attention to how diff interactions affect those reads and how others should see peeps

- He has a great handle on threadflow, can recall past events quickly and without provocation, and will remark on how new stuff coincides with older stuff

- There have been many times he has "gone out on a limb" with something, instead of just going for opportunistic pushes and bandwagoning others

- TL,DR: through his posts, it is readily apparent that he is looking at the game with a #solve mindset, not just going for singular lynches

[hazelkrs1]

Des sorry if I'm frustrating. Commuting to work now (not sure how busy I'll be) and I can engage people real time from phone now - but can't read back.

 

Its how it is these weeks. I don't sit down to comp at home cause i gotta minimise sitting time. At work sometimes I got an hour to do serious work and sometimes I can read from phone in the evenings. How do you think I should handle the thread?

 

I'm cool with you engaging people in real time, and I understand you won't always have the opportunity to put in hardcore #work

 

It's just frustrating when you continuously want to rehash stuff that's basically already resolved. I can't tell you to have a better memory in games, and I can't tell you to just take everyone's word about something, cause well the former is unrealistic and the latter is dumb

 

I just think when you ARE engaging in real time with people, you should take a second before you post, and think about if what you're about to say will really help get town any closer to winning, or if you're just blurting out whatever happens to be in your mind at the time on thread. If you feel like another matter might be more productive to discuss, then bring that up instead. If it seems you're hitting your head against a brick wall repeatedly about something, you should prob just drop it and talk about something else, and possibly bring it back up later if it seems relevant

[csarmi]

Do you understand why I was provocating Tommy?

[csarmi]

Everything is relevant with a Hydra partner by my side to help analyze later. Whatever helps Hally to have a better read is +EV.

[csarmi]

She's especially good at reading 1on1 interactions and realtime chat flow I believe. So I think our play style fits quite well there.

[hazelkrs1]

Everything is relevant with a Hydra partner by my side to help analyze later. Whatever helps Hally to have a better read is +EV.

Wrong. Some things are very likely to just make townies go "ARGLEBLARGLE" and destroy their WIM.

 

I just don't think you realize Csarmi how frustrating it can be to continuously rehash stuff, and how much that can distract town.

 

Also think the hydra thing is a bit of a cop out. You'd be doing the same thing regardless of your hydra head and Hallia isn't the type that analyzes tons of posts and makes careful analytical reads. She mostly goes on gut. Often her instincts are good, but even when she does have a strong scum lean she isn't really extremely vocal about it so.....

[hazelkrs1]

Whatever tho, this argument is doing exactly what I said we shouldn't be doing.

 

Thought you might wanna listen to reason here but meh, mebbe some other time. Will just ignore you for now

[Pralaya]

 

Despo, explain me why Arsis is town.

 

Partially because of my Turin read, yes, but also because

 

- He is steadily participating ITT, isn't trying to slank it or just coast on an emotrip or something

- He is handling multiple suspects and paying attention to how diff interactions affect those reads and how others should see peeps

- He has a great handle on threadflow, can recall past events quickly and without provocation, and will remark on how new stuff coincides with older stuff

- There have been many times he has "gone out on a limb" with something, instead of just going for opportunistic pushes and bandwagoning others

- TL,DR: through his posts, it is readily apparent that he is looking at the game with a #solve mindset, not just going for singular lynches

 

 

Well, you just listed everything I had do as scum. Mostly what I did in Twilight mafia.

 

In my opinion, both meta read and wagonomics says Arsis is scum. His vote on vos, his reasoning  and its timing was quite opportunistic. So, I fail to see how you are saying he is not bandwagoning others or going for opportunistic moves. 

[Pralaya]

Could someone come up with flavor for a town vig that poisons? I legit can't. I've been thinking about what is healthy and good for you that could be used as poison?

 

Anti-biotics? No, doesn't fit? Alcohol? Would probably be scum. Vaccines? Dountful. Flu-shot? That's a stretch and it wouldn't be poison imo.

 

That alone is probably the best evidence in favor of tg if the early claim and gameplay haven't sold you. It's a scum/3rd party shot.

 

Also, how posts like this is helping solving the game? Looks more like a distraction

[hazelkrs1]

So apparently you're scum this game, huh Pray?

[hazelkrs1]

Good to know.

[csarmi]

 

Everything is relevant with a Hydra partner by my side to help analyze later. Whatever helps Hally to have a better read is +EV.

Wrong. Some things are very likely to just make townies go "ARGLEBLARGLE" and destroy their WIM.

 

I just don't think you realize Csarmi how frustrating it can be to continuously rehash stuff, and how much that can distract town.

 

Also think the hydra thing is a bit of a cop out. You'd be doing the same thing regardless of your hydra head and Hallia isn't the type that analyzes tons of posts and makes careful analytical reads. She mostly goes on gut. Often her instincts are good, but even when she does have a strong scum lean she isn't really extremely vocal about it so.....

 

 

oh she IS extremely vocal when chatting (we can seldom be online at the same time tho)

...and yea I'd be doing the same regardless (cause not really have another choice) but this way it's ctually more helpful

 

And she reads stuff and forms opinion on the basis of those.

[hazelkrs1]

Alright got quotes pulled and ready to go

 

Funny thing tho- as I was catching up, I noticed Tommy is pretty much already crushing a lot of the arguments I would have already gone up against lol. That's awesome.

 

Also since I don't have a ton of time while at work still (roughly 15 mins) to go full wot-style, lemme just address those last two posts from Pray real quick

[hazelkrs1]

Oh and also the scum circle is shrinking a bit more I'd say- VERY comfortable with the idea of a TI/Pray/Yates/SP scum team

[hazelkrs1]

And if I'm right that will be a #solve by D2, which is basically normal for me when at my top tier form and with other power townies all making themselves easy to read

 

[hazelkrs1]

Sooooooo much wrong with these posts by Pray

 

 

 

Despo, explain me why Arsis is town.

 

Partially because of my Turin read, yes, but also because

 

- He is steadily participating ITT, isn't trying to slank it or just coast on an emotrip or something

- He is handling multiple suspects and paying attention to how diff interactions affect those reads and how others should see peeps

- He has a great handle on threadflow, can recall past events quickly and without provocation, and will remark on how new stuff coincides with older stuff

- There have been many times he has "gone out on a limb" with something, instead of just going for opportunistic pushes and bandwagoning others

- TL,DR: through his posts, it is readily apparent that he is looking at the game with a #solve mindset, not just going for singular lynches

 

 

Well, you just listed everything I had do as scum. Mostly what I did in Twilight mafia.

 

In my opinion, both meta read and wagonomics says Arsis is scum. His vote on vos, his reasoning  and its timing was quite opportunistic. So, I fail to see how you are saying he is not bandwagoning others or going for opportunistic moves. 

 

 

1. Just because you did some of that type of stuff as scum in another game doesn't mean Arsis would be scum here- that just means you were doing a good job of blending in as scum there

2. You immediately contradict yourself because you seem to think Arsis shouldn't be cleared for the reasons I gave, except then you try and say Arsis WASN'T doing those things

3. Don't think you have NEAR enough of a handle on Arsis' meta to try and use that against him. I don't even have a firm grasp on his meta yet, and I'm pretty sure I'm in a better sport regarding that than you (more games with him, have modded him)

4. Following Turin a lot arent ya? Not just with trying to say Arsis is scummy, but also with the buzzword thing. HOW does "wagonomics" say Arsis is scum, after ONE lynch that turned out to be on a 3P?

5. Vos legit "slipped" and got himself lynched- people getting on board with his lynch weren't really bandwagoning just because they voted him. In fact, even when Arsis voted Vos he was STILL saying how he thought TI was likely scum.

 

Look at the difference between how Turin reacted to the Vos wagon and how Arsis reacted. Turin was voting Arsis at the time, then Tommy and I cleared Arsis, while somewhere around the same time noticing Vos' really bad post. Turin just dropped the Arsis thing completely, even tho the two people who cleared Arsis both were "suspects" for him. Arsis otoh was paying attention to multiple people, and also thought Turin was scum. He looked more like he was legit sold on Vos being scum, but continued to still voice his suspicion on Turin, didn't drop it like a dog who just found a juicier bone.

 

6. Tone wise it looks like you're doing something akin to the "Scum mad for being caught for wrong reasons" thing. You look more like you're mad that town are clearing each other for what you think aren't good reasons, not like you seriously have this big suspicion on Arsis. You're responding more to people clearing Arsis than trying to point out actual inconsistencies in his play or something. Wolfy

 

 

 

Could someone come up with flavor for a town vig that poisons? I legit can't. I've been thinking about what is healthy and good for you that could be used as poison?

Anti-biotics? No, doesn't fit? Alcohol? Would probably be scum. Vaccines? Dountful. Flu-shot? That's a stretch and it wouldn't be poison imo.

That alone is probably the best evidence in favor of tg if the early claim and gameplay haven't sold you. It's a scum/3rd party shot.

 

Also, how posts like this is helping solving the game? Looks more like a distraction

 

 

See now THIS is a better example of an opportunistic push. YES, that post from Arsis wasn't really helping to solve, but numerous people were discussing it for a while, and I even tried scolding him to stop. But it's not like Arsis has only focused on stuff like this all game- he has many times shown that he is paying attention to stuff that will help resolve player slots, not just mechanic and setup stuff. So you cherrypicking this post, instead of say calling out Yates for recirculating a lot of the Poisoner talk to begin with, looks incredibly wolfy on your part

[Turin Turambar]

Since I didn't do this before-

 

My summarized blurb on TI:

 

- before Ithi left she was way off her town meta. As town she is essentially suspicious of everyone, and active in scumhunting and pressuring others. This game she tunneled on TG for policy reasons, then defended herself only, and kinda poorly at that

- Turin flip flopped his stance on TG's miller claim, first saying it was plausible and stuff, then backing Ithi up about how Miller claims HAD TO GO

- He later said he was merely reaction testing Csarmi when he was believing the claim ITT. LAWLZ. Also Turin often makes fun of people who claim to have done stuff "for reactions" so yeah jokes on him or us here, you pick

- He also claimed that he initially DIDN'T trust the miller claim till called on it (prob shoulda put this point above the previous one /shrug)

- He uses buzzwords to back stuff up instead of spelling it out more- which is DEF off his town meta

- Besides his generically wolfy push on TG, he tried making his push look more believable with the classic "why aren't you voting me then", making it look like TG was scummy for not voting Turin immediately

- Has tunneled on me but in a weak manner, not like him trying to actively push but just soft push to keep up appearances

- Ever since it looked like he couldn't get TG or me lynched, has instead gone for opportunistic pushes here or there (@Arsis, @Vos, @AJ)

 

I have more but we're starting audit unfortunately

Ithi was not off meta. She was paying attention to what was going on until she had to step away. Not much really happened before that IMO. Just us pushing TG and others saying "well he claimed right away so I guess he is town."

 

Think what you want of my intentionally taking a odd stance for me. You don't want to believe I did it for the reason I stated. Fine. That makes you either mafia trying to get rid of us before Ithi can get back and I can get time or just plain wrong which makes you a bad player.

 

Buzzwords again? That would be a thing if I hadn't explained what tg did that I found mafia indicative.

 

I noticed Vos beforebyou did and out my suspicion out immediately. So I wasn't just going for anything easy. Or opportunistic.

 

You are spinning hard but not really saying very.much.

 

 

Probably because you are mafia.

[Pralaya]

Sooooooo much wrong with these posts by Pray

 

1. Just because you did some of that type of stuff as scum in another game doesn't mean Arsis would be scum here- that just means you were doing a good job of blending in as scum there

2. You immediately contradict yourself because you seem to think Arsis shouldn't be cleared for the reasons I gave, except then you try and say Arsis WASN'T doing those things

3. Don't think you have NEAR enough of a handle on Arsis' meta to try and use that against him. I don't even have a firm grasp on his meta yet, and I'm pretty sure I'm in a better sport regarding that than you (more games with him, have modded him)

4. Following Turin a lot arent ya? Not just with trying to say Arsis is scummy, but also with the buzzword thing. HOW does "wagonomics" say Arsis is scum, after ONE lynch that turned out to be on a 3P?

5. Vos legit "slipped" and got himself lynched- people getting on board with his lynch weren't really bandwagoning just because they voted him. In fact, even when Arsis voted Vos he was STILL saying how he thought TI was likely scum.

 

Look at the difference between how Turin reacted to the Vos wagon and how Arsis reacted. Turin was voting Arsis at the time, then Tommy and I cleared Arsis, while somewhere around the same time noticing Vos' really bad post. Turin just dropped the Arsis thing completely, even tho the two people who cleared Arsis both were "suspects" for him. Arsis otoh was paying attention to multiple people, and also thought Turin was scum. He looked more like he was legit sold on Vos being scum, but continued to still voice his suspicion on Turin, didn't drop it like a dog who just found a juicier bone.

 

6. Tone wise it looks like you're doing something akin to the "Scum mad for being caught for wrong reasons" thing. You look more like you're mad that town are clearing each other for what you think aren't good reasons, not like you seriously have this big suspicion on Arsis. You're responding more to people clearing Arsis than trying to point out actual inconsistencies in his play or something. Wolfy

 

 

 

1. Yes, it doesn't mean that Arsis would do the same thing. However, what I am pointing out is that you cannot "LOCK CLEAR" someone over those simple reasons. You can read him as town, not a problem but lock clearing someone is ridiculous

2. I have more than just this to think Arsis is scum. I don't see where I am contradicting when I am just pointing out how your "LOCK CLEAR" reasons look bad

3. I have played 3-4 games with him and it is usually enough for me to get a handle on a meta. It is irrelevant  how much you have played with him

4. I have already explained how I think he is scummy based on wagonomics  in this post

The votes that stand out in the vos train are Arsis and Darthe.

 

Arsis vote came at a time when the votes were closely tied and it was the point where it tipped towards Vos. Definitely trying to put the focus away from him. His vote was also meh. He just sheeped SlenderMan's and Des' arguments against vos.

 

5. Vos might have slipped. But, that was neither pointed out by Arsis or pursued by him. If you go back and look at his vote, he just sheeped the reasons for his vote off you and Slender. And, that is why it is opportunistic.

 

So apparently you're scum this game, huh Pray?

 

So, is this where you call those who disagrees with your reads as scum? We have had this before in other games and it usually turns out that I am right at the end of the day. Even had instances where I and Cory have just sheeped your reads as scum and you have lock cleared us as town. What can i say? You never learn. 

[Turin Turambar]

There is less than zero reason to talk about TG's alignment Csarmi. The sooner you realize this the sooner I'll stop wanting to wrangle your neck like Homer choking Bart.

 

He's likely town.

 

He already claimed (Miller)

 

He's poisoned, so there's a very good chance he'll be resolved soon anyways.

 

SO FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, STOP FREAKING TALKING ABOUT STUFF THAT DOESNT MATTER TODAY CSARMI

Despo, are you advocating that TG not be healed? Because otherwise he isn't getting resolved any time soon.

 

The rest looks like super defending without good cause.

[Pralaya]

 

 

Could someone come up with flavor for a town vig that poisons? I legit can't. I've been thinking about what is healthy and good for you that could be used as poison?

 

Anti-biotics? No, doesn't fit? Alcohol? Would probably be scum. Vaccines? Dountful. Flu-shot? That's a stretch and it wouldn't be poison imo.

 

That alone is probably the best evidence in favor of tg if the early claim and gameplay haven't sold you. It's a scum/3rd party shot.

 

Also, how posts like this is helping solving the game? Looks more like a distraction

 

 

See now THIS is a better example of an opportunistic push. YES, that post from Arsis wasn't really helping to solve, but numerous people were discussing it for a while, and I even tried scolding him to stop. But it's not like Arsis has only focused on stuff like this all game- he has many times shown that he is paying attention to stuff that will help resolve player slots, not just mechanic and setup stuff. So you cherrypicking this post, instead of say calling out Yates for recirculating a lot of the Poisoner talk to begin with, looks incredibly wolfy on your part

 

Do you actually not see the difference between talking about role of a poisoner vs the character of a poisoner? The former is still setup talk, the latter is nothing. It is neither setup nor solving nor anything useful. 

 

Also, I have already called Yates scum even before you started talking about him. So, try something else.

[csarmi]

@Turin, do you have a case on Despo? What makes you think he's mafia?

[hazelkrs1]

LOL @ the wilves trying to posture to save their lives

 

 

Hey Turin. Imma get you lynched. And you're scum. I'm already basking in the preglow of it, and being so right about you so early on.

 

 

How do you feel about that?

[Pralaya]

Either Turin and Pral are masons or they're scum together, and if they're masons I'd like a claim to get that over with.

Neither

[hazelkrs1]

 

Since I didn't do this before-

 

My summarized blurb on TI:

 

- before Ithi left she was way off her town meta. As town she is essentially suspicious of everyone, and active in scumhunting and pressuring others. This game she tunneled on TG for policy reasons, then defended herself only, and kinda poorly at that

- Turin flip flopped his stance on TG's miller claim, first saying it was plausible and stuff, then backing Ithi up about how Miller claims HAD TO GO

- He later said he was merely reaction testing Csarmi when he was believing the claim ITT. LAWLZ. Also Turin often makes fun of people who claim to have done stuff "for reactions" so yeah jokes on him or us here, you pick

- He also claimed that he initially DIDN'T trust the miller claim till called on it (prob shoulda put this point above the previous one /shrug)

- He uses buzzwords to back stuff up instead of spelling it out more- which is DEF off his town meta

- Besides his generically wolfy push on TG, he tried making his push look more believable with the classic "why aren't you voting me then", making it look like TG was scummy for not voting Turin immediately

- Has tunneled on me but in a weak manner, not like him trying to actively push but just soft push to keep up appearances

- Ever since it looked like he couldn't get TG or me lynched, has instead gone for opportunistic pushes here or there (@Arsis, @Vos, @AJ)

 

I have more but we're starting audit unfortunately

Ithi was not off meta. She was paying attention to what was going on until she had to step away. Not much really happened before that IMO. Just us pushing TG and others saying "well he claimed right away so I guess he is town."

 

Think what you want of my intentionally taking a odd stance for me. You don't want to believe I did it for the reason I stated. Fine. That makes you either mafia trying to get rid of us before Ithi can get back and I can get time or just plain wrong which makes you a bad player.

 

Buzzwords again? That would be a thing if I hadn't explained what tg did that I found mafia indicative.

 

I noticed Vos beforebyou did and out my suspicion out immediately. So I wasn't just going for anything easy. Or opportunistic.

 

You are spinning hard but not really saying very.much.

 

 

Probably because you are mafia.

 

 

No, Ithi was off her meta. She is normally a less-spastic version of Red, will basically be suspicious of everyone and cast a wide net, till she finds scum and then focuses on them till they're lynched or she's NKed. This game she policy pushed on TG then defended herself badly after that, gone was her normal paranoia of everyone. Even when she DID try acting suspicious of someone else it looked forced.

 

@ your obvious jab at my skill level. Lulz @ outed wolf behavior

 

You know the thing that you claimed was mafia indicative of TG? Pushing someone as LOCK SCUM even tho he was voting someone else? You're basically doing the same thing, only 100 times worse. You've pushed @ me all game essentially, never making it seem like you for a second we're considering if I was town or not, even tho you've never been actively pushing to get me lynched, just parking a vote on me for a while till you found someone else you could vote for that looked like an easy target. Even now, you're voting Krak, even tho you've said like 2-3 things about him in your last ~25 posts, while saying stuff about me in the meantime in pretty much every single post.

 

Also "You are spinning hard but not really saying very.much. Probably because you are mafia."

 

Posturing much? LOL

[Tommyrod]

 

Either Turin and Pral are masons or they're scum together, and if they're masons I'd like a claim to get that over with.

Neither

How could I have been so foolish?!