[Advanced] Woodstock 1969 Mafia - Town wins

[Tyler Glembo]

 

-Counterpoint being, Kates still cares more about defending themselves than trying to find scum (also nice attempt at wifom re: AJ SK)

Reading is for winners.

 

- Point being, the probable RB is very likely one of the "clear" Townies.

 

 

Des not using logic isn't a scumtell for him TBH.  Him taking outs when in an argument is though.

[Yates]

Btw with a cop and deputy (backup right?) it's nearly guaranteed we have a GF right?

All but guaranteed.

[Tyler Glembo]

Through page 10, to illustrate my point on how Despo takes Tommy's outs to buddy him and get clear.

 

He started by trying to get me off his back with a "you should find REAL scum" nonsense AtE flop, then just bounced onto the nearest person he could vote for "organically" that wasn't me (but it looked bad, especially coming off his stupid weak questions to Salami and Hallia), and is now going to spend the rest of the day calling me scum but not having the guts to actually attack me. Calling it now.

 

Here Tommy calls out what Des would do as scum, basically continue to call him scum but not attack full bore.  The counter point is that a town!Des would actually attack.  What does Des do in the very next post to look town?

 

Tommy is scum.

[unvote]

[V]Tommy[/v]

 

Bam, votes Tommy.

 

 

^ The above is an example of a fake post for the inquiring reader.

I assume you're not going to follow up on your Hallia "suspicions" now that she's voted for you, and that's not surprising to me at all.

 

 

Here Tommy mentions who Des suddenly forgot about Hallia while responding to him.  Indicating that a town!Des would return to Hallia.  Shortly thereafter...

 

Something else to remember should Tommy turn out to be town- all the peeps who got quiet during this little exchange. Darthe and AJ come to mind for this. Csarmi is still posting and looking out for things actively so I'd say that looks good for him.

Just went back and saw Hallia's vote on me and it WAS awful. Looked opportunistic as he'll the way she also tried painting me as a bully with the Lenlo stuff

 

Des goes back to commenting on Hallia.

[nervositee]

 

At this point I feel like it's going to be hard for mafia to bus, instead I feel like we're going to see clear stances taken and it's going to be hard to get scum to budge on them.  Organic flow will dissipate and forced thought will set in.

 

 

Key's ISO on my play does not look organic.  I see hedging and a slight narrative engagement bias.  I could better understand that bias if she had come to the conclusion that I was scum instead of 'sketchy,' but sketchy it is and the bias looks a bit forced.

 

 

 

"Hi, I'm gonna spin a tale of how the game probably is... and oh watch how that clears me too".

 

There is a good chance that if - by some freak circumstance - KeyYates go down and flip town, Krak is one to watch. Don't like this post at all. 

[Tommyrod]

What percentage do you guys think Kates is scum?

 

Vos, you implied it would be extremely unusual for Kates to flip town here. So what's that? 99% scum?

[nervositee]

Y'know, I think we all can agree this has to be done at this point. 

 

[v]Kates[/v]

[Yates]

There is a good chance that if - by some freak circumstance - KeyYates go down and flip town, Krak is one to watch. Don't like this post at all.

I wouldn't hit Krak too hard for that. I happen to agree with the bit about challenging Key to examine why he may have been off the lurker lynches. I would ask the same thing.

[keyholder21]

[v]Kates{/v]

 

Enjoy.

[Tommyrod]

Y'know, I think we all can agree this has to be done at this point.

 

[v]Kates[/v]

God I hate your last two posts. This is AIDS. You're being lazy.

[keyholder21]

gr.

 

[v]Kates[/v]

[nervositee]

What percentage do you guys think Kates is scum?

 

Vos, you implied it would be extremely unusual for Kates to flip town here. So what's that? 99% scum?

 

89% - but the remaining 11% is acting like a negative utility for town so worst case then.. meh. 

 

89 is still pretty darn good though. 

[Tyler Glembo]

Des we were just scum together on VS like a week ago so I know it hasn't been a "while" since you've played mafia

 

It's not your aggressiveness that I find lacking, it's your complete narrowmindness and inability to consider that *I* could be pushing you as town. Do you REALLY think that anyone who ever pushes you with conviction must be scum -- PARTICULARLY when you've been acting odd, by your own admission? How can you say that with a straight face?

 

How?

 

 

Phew! Finally got a break from room service orders

 

Okay first off- if any townies are misreading me as scum atm, there are two things I can think of for why my tone might have seemed different at the start- busy with room service, and haven't played mafia in a while and was excited to see a game start. My aggressiveness however, is not even close to a scumtell for me so if you found me scummy for that then you just don't know me very well.

 

Here Tommy calls out the change in playstyle, which Des had earlier defended saying he is always aggressive.  Suddenly he mentions that yeah, his tone might be off and explains away his change in tone by saying he hasn't played mafia in a while.  Tommy immediately calls him out for having *just* played mafia on VS.

 

 

After this came the Cop claim from Tommy and Hallia backing it up, which caused Des to quickly back off.

[Yates]

I also like post 2103. Gold Star for TG. If there's a GF, Des would be my first guess.

[Tommyrod]

We are NOT going to maj early.

[Yates]

[unvote] I didn't sign up to quit.

[Tommyrod]

Hmmm. I'll reconsider Des. But when I compared him to Avengers he was much more confident and self assured here. In avengers he was kind of a suck-up puss (in comparisons

[nervositee]

 

Y'know, I think we all can agree this has to be done at this point.

 

[v]Kates[/v]

God I hate your last two posts. This is AIDS. You're being lazy.

 

 

At some point we can beat the bush all we want but it's all going in one direction anyway. 

 

And maybe, I dunno. I'm not on your LEVEL. Not even on my best days I would, or would want to (to be honest) put the same amount of #work into this game as you do. I'm sorry if it's not good enough but that is how it is, we all have different levels of engagement and time and energy to put into this. Deal with it, or throw out all the casual gamers of mafia. 

 

So... AIDS, hate, ok, sure. 

[Krakalakachkn]

 

 

At this point I feel like it's going to be hard for mafia to bus, instead I feel like we're going to see clear stances taken and it's going to be hard to get scum to budge on them.  Organic flow will dissipate and forced thought will set in.

 

 

Key's ISO on my play does not look organic.  I see hedging and a slight narrative engagement bias.  I could better understand that bias if she had come to the conclusion that I was scum instead of 'sketchy,' but sketchy it is and the bias looks a bit forced.

 

 

 

"Hi, I'm gonna spin a tale of how the game probably is... and oh watch how that clears me too".

 

There is a good chance that if - by some freak circumstance - KeyYates go down and flip town, Krak is one to watch. Don't like this post at all. 

 

How does that clear me?

[Yates]

What percentage do you guys think Kates is scum?

Kates is my strongest Town read followed by you. I think the biggest threat to Town at this point is the consensus Kates tunnel. So if that slot needs to be mislynched to make Day 3 more clear, have at it. I just don't see how you will get any new information out of it since it's such an easy target.

[keyholder21]

Key's ISO on my play does not look organic.  I see hedging and a slight narrative engagement bias.  

 

 

Emphasis on "arguing against lynching Len" instead of "questioned Len lynch" or "challenged Arsis on a washy vote." 

 

 

Good point on challenging my "Len null to scum lean" read, but doesn't go far enough.  Maybe I missed a question in a later post, but I don't see any challenging or intent at further action, merely presentation.

 

 

I also realize that Kates is a group target at the moment, so I must take momentary bias into my thoughts too. I'm not doing a good job at townreading so far this game.

 

 

 

@KEY

 

Do you think it's more likely that my early non-reaction to Lenlo and Darthe and subsequent comments are because I'm scum or because they had not presented any sort of valid play?

 

 

Also please respond with a clear answer as to whether you think I'm scum or town as I don't have time to search through the thread and don't have recent notes.

Sketchy = scummy. I can use that term instead since you prefer.

 

 

What in what I said is hedging?

 

 

What Arsis vote?

 

 

I am looking into/providing reads for possible deep wolf candidates re: mafia RB'er, as requested. There was no question.

 

 

I don't think they presented any valid play at that point, but I think this is a WIFOM argument. You could be scum easily deflecting from teammates - specifically darthe.

[Tyler Glembo]

By page 16 the Des/Tommy argument had gotten a bit chill. 

 

 

I did think about a scum watcher and decided A) they are rare and B) unlikely in a game this small and C) I don't care because I'm dying N1. I die N1 because I can't keep my mouth shut. I cause drama, I rile up the thread, I try to find mafia. That's bad news for scum who want the thread quiet and complacent. Is it possible I would live to D2? Yeah it's possible. I just don't think it's likely, particularly after I've started getting riled up. At least now there's doubt. Shooting me tonight might be a waste. And if I can draw a roleblock: that's fine too. I'll just keep hunting myself. I don't need cop views to scumhunt.

And like I said I don't think this is an optimal strat for basically anyone else but I hate being cop in small games and I decided to just go for the doc appeal instead of doing nothing and dying anyway. It's an experiment at the very least.

 

Fair enough for the claiming early.

 

Still think your push on me was terribad.

 

Here Des full on backs down and changes his tone entirely about the PR claim from Tommy, which is what Tommy said earlier that Des would have to do.

 

Btw Des, regardless of your alignment:

You can't call me scum for not trying to discern your alignment and then make posts like this:

"Meanwhile you're continuously trying to give yourself an out for changing your mind on me if I "improve"."

You did this to me in Hoof's game too. It makes no sense. You're saying I'm scum if I do and I'm scum if I don't.

Don't do that. It's bad.

 

Finally, Tommy calls Des out for confirmation bias type thinking.  Des responds saying he shouldn't give townie points to someone for doing what was said to be the town move.  But then he finishes his full back down with what is below.

 

Regardless, if I'm not mistaken we aren't really suspecting each other anymore, so meh let's just forget about it and move on to catching scum Tommy. We obviously have a tendency to butt heads at times in mafia games. Won't be the first time won't be the last.

 

Looking at the fight, Des took a number of outs offered by Tommy in order to get townie points.  Des, don't act like I'm saying you were shook because I never said that, but you definitely used anything you could during the argument to win town cred for yourself.

[keyholder21]

 

What percentage do you guys think Kates is scum?

Kates is my strongest Town read followed by you. I think the biggest threat to Town at this point is the consensus Kates tunnel. So if that slot needs to be mislynched to make Day 3 more clear, have at it. I just don't see how you will get any new information out of it since it's such an easy target.

 

Agreed. Hence my vote. But if you want someone else to hammer instead, fine.

[Krakalakachkn]

I wouldn't actually expect a post like 

 

"maybe he actually shanked his girlfriend"

 

to be a legit commentary on alignment or as justification for his play at any point.

[Yates]

I don't think they presented any valid play at that point, but I think this is a WIFOM argument.

Do you see how that's exactly what we did, though? Only one of us went so far as sticking their neck out [*clears throat*] and actually calling one of them Town.

[Tyler Glembo]

Hmmm. I'll reconsider Des. But when I compared him to Avengers he was much more confident and self assured here. In avengers he was kind of a suck-up puss (in comparisons

 

Des can #rekt as scum and be fully confident.  Didn't you say he was on VS when you two rolled scum?