Freemasons vs. Illuminati - LOOKING FOR ONE MORE PLAYER, QUICK GAME

[Arsis]

Every game I play where I don't play along or do something strange I always get scum attacking me for it. Len in doctor who. Tg in Woodstock.

[Arsis]

Aj's especially mad my buffoonery caught him. It's like "I'm actually trying and I got outed by this nincompoop"

[Lenlo]

 

For Arsis what do you want me to case? To case someone they have to have done something in the game, but hes done jack all.

Maybe give some examples of Arsis doing "jack all." Like, he needed to respond to X or should have been more involved with Y. I'd like to see this Arsis case, too. That plus Key's Arsis ISO would be NY Times Best Seller reading material for this game. We are running out of time and I have NO idea who I want to lynch. My default will probably be you. Or maybe GF. Still deciding.

 

Would you care to explain why those are your defaults while I go back and try and limit the amount of Arsis quotes I use showing him doing nothing?

[Yates]

 

 

For Arsis what do you want me to case? To case someone they have to have done something in the game, but hes done jack all.

Maybe give some examples of Arsis doing "jack all." Like, he needed to respond to X or should have been more involved with Y. I'd like to see this Arsis case, too. That plus Key's Arsis ISO would be NY Times Best Seller reading material for this game. We are running out of time and I have NO idea who I want to lynch. My default will probably be you. Or maybe GF. Still deciding.

 

Would you care to explain why those are your defaults while I go back and try and limit the amount of Arsis quotes I use showing him doing nothing?

 

Well, I'm assuming that by "jack all" you mean that he isn't doing anything productive. Since it's hard to build a case around "not doing anything" I'm asking for examples of where he wasn't doing anything but should have been. Those were just the first two examples that came to the top of my head. Really, ANYTHING that stands out would be helpful. Maybe you didn't like his reaction to something? Maybe you didn't like a vote? Anything like that.

[Arsis]

Aj/len and who is the third?

[Lenlo]

I know what to look for Yates, I was just joking about how I am going to have to selectively choose which ones to bring up because there are so many.

[Yates]

I know what to look for Yates, I was just joking about how I am going to have to selectively choose which ones to bring up because there are so many.

Oh. It didn't come across as jokey. My bad.

[Yates]

@key. Aj said he thought I was town but voted for me anyway. Just to get rid of me because I wasn't playing the way he wanted me to play.

 

I was asking if that was a town thing to do? Do town vote other town in a small game?

 

To me I see you and Yates and aj being puzzled and trying to figure out wtf I'm doing and that's a strong town tell. I see aj getting annoyed and aggressive and that's a scum tell.

Every game I play where I don't play along or do something strange I always get scum attacking me for it. Len in doctor who. Tg in Woodstock.

Aj's especially mad my buffoonery caught him. It's like "I'm actually trying and I got outed by this nincompoop"

If your buffoonery legitimately caught AJ, my hat is off to you. Is this the only scum tell you have for AJ atm?

[Arsis]

 

@key. Aj said he thought I was town but voted for me anyway. Just to get rid of me because I wasn't playing the way he wanted me to play.

 

I was asking if that was a town thing to do? Do town vote other town in a small game?

 

To me I see you and Yates and aj being puzzled and trying to figure out wtf I'm doing and that's a strong town tell. I see aj getting annoyed and aggressive and that's a scum tell.

Every game I play where I don't play along or do something strange I always get scum attacking me for it. Len in doctor who. Tg in Woodstock.

Aj's especially mad my buffoonery caught him. It's like "I'm actually trying and I got outed by this nincompoop"

If your buffoonery legitimately caught AJ, my hat is off to you. Is this the only scum tell you have for AJ atm?

Voting for town? Getting emotional when there is no pressure on him? Tunneling on tg day 1 when town aj is more open to possibilities. Getting mad when I distracted people from his tg agenda?

 

 

You have a better case so far?

[Arsis]

Hyper-sensetivity to pressure. "you guys should follow him" is not a town response to the first vote on him from someone people aren't going to listen to.

[Andrej]

Arsis you have no clue what any of my scum tells are. My 'follow him' comment was obviously sarcasm and meant to show how simple your thought process is.

 

"Oh, this guy attacked me cause I'm acting like an ass? SCUM!" It's not that simple bro.

 

You saying that only scum attack you when you act dumb is also exaggerated. Was TG the only one to gun for you in Woodstock? Hell no. I did. Des did. Were we scum that game? Nope. I think what really saved you wasn't actually anything you did it was because others were able to properly interpret you DESPITE how you troll and react to accusations.

 

I'll get caught up on this game now, just saw that last post and wanted to address it.

[Yates]

BFG ISO

 

She has so little content I may as well post the whole thing!

 

Pops in at game start to say hi.

 

Hello

 

 

Makes what appears to be a non game related post/excuse for not posting with her Castle gif.

 

 

That moment you realised you forgot to out the oven on (an hour ago!)

 

 

The WoT that somehow made her LOCK TOWN for Des.

 

 

Morning!  

 

 

^^ Who is the Sarm?

 

/game

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

goes to check rules

 

 

Def agree with rule #2.  Funnily enough, I think I upset some people the last game I modded by not requiring unvoting.  I always looked at scum pulling the "didn't unvote" ploy as a bit outside the core of the game.

 

 

[unvote][v]AJ[/v]

What was the point in 'checking the rules', commenting on not needing to unvote and then voting anyway?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm saying 'for the luls' doesn't sound like justification to me. Obviously I saw the post if I'm able to comment on it.

 

You're reaching imo and your vote on me now is for what? Potentially skimming? Lol

 

Looking shaky right now bro.

 

[v]TG[/v]

 

Confirmed shook ITT.

 

I really just don't follow the thought process. Len goes from being 'vote worthy' for supposedly justifying his RVS (which I don't see) to turning on me for... what?

 

Why did Lenlo vote?  "For the lulz".  Giving a reason for the joke vote is the very definition of justification.  AJ, the fact that you're waffling on this, saying you saw it but it didn't really look like it, but that maybe you were potentially skimming isnt' a good look.  And then you retort but wait for Yates to vote me before taking action? 

 

AJ conf scum.

 

 

 

 

I'm not waffling on anything. I said plainly that I don't see Lenlo over justifying his vote. Your immediate response is "Really?!" and turn around to vote me with some commentary about how I couldn't see it.

 

I saw the post. I disagree with your conclusion and have said as much with "you're reaching imo"

 

Also vote order is a crap argument. In this situation I think you would've tried turning it in either situation so whatever. I was contemplating a vote but wanted you to respond first but with Yates down to clown I figured I might as well add to the pressure.

 

Since when are you not willing to early tone read people's OPs?  Reaching on Lenlo?  Sure, it was a page into the game.  You jumping in on it about a tone read?  That isn't the AJ I know.

 

Can you define what you mean by a tone read? Cos you said you voted Lenlo for the justification, that doesn't seem to fit into tone.

 

 

 

Yo

 

Doin the whole "game thread in the signup thread" thing, huh? Cool.

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

I see with you, Arsis and TG around the Lynch Lenlo cult is still going strong. Makes me glad.

 

Im also glad to see that my ploy to kickstart the game by joke voting Arsis D1/Pg1/Post1 is going well. Yup entirely planned. No one can say otherwise.

 

 

Early deflection.

 

It looks like he's saying "joke vote" is your justification, Len. I'm not looking forward to 4 pages of this semantic argument so there it is.

 

While I agree that "for the lulz" isn't a reason reason, it *is* - technically speaking - a "justification." Saying "Vote X - for the lulz" is different from simply saying "Vote X." It's similar but it *is* subtly different. And mafia is a game of subtly. So, I'm actually okay with his line of questioning even if I think he's chasing shadows, personally.

 

 

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

goes to check rules

Votes - THEN checks rules.

Obv Scum play, bro.

 

[v]TG[/v]

 

I don't get this, you agree with TG's line of questioning on Lenlo yet are voting him for checking the rules?

 

 

Wait this is a serious argument? Im confused as to why you think thats justification TG, for what was a joke vote. "For the lulz" isnt an argument for anything nor is it justification. I dont need justification for a joke vote. Its the equivalent of me going "Hey Arsis remember that game you were a survivor? I do. With love."

 

Defensive, what do you think about TG/AJ?

 

 

Arsis, why did you vote Lenlo, and why did you immediately switch to AJ?

Lenlo is Lenlo. I vote him day 1 every game. It's a thing now.

 

 

Aj seemed to need a little bit of pressure on him. Look at how he overreacted to a tiny bit of pressure. What do you think that means?

 

 

What do you think it means?

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/87219-basic-the-matrix-game-over/?p=3141125

 

This is the only one I've been able to find so far on this board and it was from a game several pages back so maybe a bit outdated. TG was town here though and I actually was mafia which makes it funny. It's not recent evidence so perhaps a bit ~null but it still proves that even TG has 'justified' his joke votes.

 

Will continue looking through some games on the others boards as well but for now I think I would very much enjoy seeing TG take the drop this game. I'm just really not buying that he sees any real value in over analyzing RVS votes and I dislike how he focused on semantics and immediately turned aggro towards me when responded to about it. Like I'm still baffled he handled my singular statement in the way he did.

 

I like the effort you put in here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL. Sometimes I actually DO have to work you know.

Real quick question; would you have posted when you did if I hadn't said anything? Or was it a coincidence that you and Clov both spoke up right after?

 

Same question for Clov, I guess.

 

Question 1) I would have. It was the first substantial issue in the thread.

2) I don't know. I would assume it's a coincidence, but I can't rule out that she was waiting for somebody else to post so she could piggyback off them.

Close, Key, aj... Your scum team ladies and gentlemen.

I can't tell if you're serious or trolling.

 

89%

 

All right...can you take this theory and run with it for me? Explain everything like I'm a complete moron. What do you think AJ did originally that was an overreaction, and why does that make him scum?

 

I never said he was scum. Just that I wanted to pressure him a bit. He seemed a bit defensive about some nonsense day 1.

 

If you wanted to pressure AJ why are you backing off so easily?

 

 

[Yates]

Add on post to the WoT to clarify she meant she wondered why TG would unvote AJ if his vote was for pressure.

 

Top bit at TG should be unvoting

 

 

Town consensus reads.

 

TG gets some townie points for starting the game with his vote on AJ, will be interested to see where he goes with it, and I want to understand his definition of tone reading, but slight town read.

 

AJs reaction seems town at the moment, a little concerned that he's not commenting on other stuff at the moment.

 

Clov looks good to me at the moment

 

Lenlo also seems quite self focused at the moment

 

Arsis looks bad for his 'pressure' vote on AJ followed by the quick retreat.

 

 

"Feel better Hally."

 

And feel better Hallia <3

 

 

Finally votes Arsis. Not sure why she didn't 2 posts ago.

 

[v]Arsis[/v]

 

 

Did anyone else think I was contradicting myself? I don't see it AT ALL. Might help me read this reaction better.

 

 

 

 

[unvote][v]AJ[/v]

What was the point in 'checking the rules', commenting on not needing to unvote and then voting anyway?

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

goes to check rules

Votes - THEN checks rules.

Obv Scum play, bro.

 

[v]TG[/v]

 

I don't get this, you agree with TG's line of questioning on Lenlo yet are voting him for checking the rules?

 

My RVS vote happened way before this discussion. Check the timestamps in your own quote. The fact that you stopped to question him on exactly what I quoted in my original RVS vote has me concerned about the authenticity of your confusion.

 

I went back and grabbed your vote. It didn't sound like a RVS, and even in this post you're saying it wasn't a joke vote.

 

So why are you voting somebody for a post when you agree with their line of questioning? It's the apparent contradiction I don't understand.

 

 

 

 

Asks Arsis [whom she is voting for] which game he was Survivor in.

 

 

Someone asked me why I'm backing off aj. Because his teammates clov us going to get me lynched and I'm not good enough at the game to defend myself.

Which game were you Survivor in?

 

 

 

Her final post is Tuesday at 7:00 PM where she asks Arsis - her current scum suspect and vote - for his read on AJ and TG. I need to double check but I don't recall Arsis being shy about his opinion on these two slots.

 

Thanks, knew it was recent.

 

What do you think of TG/AJ?

 

 

I fully expect her to swoop in at deadline to try to influence wagons in a game she isn't even participating in. And that will put me in a foul mood wrt her slot.

[keyholder21]

Ok, Arsis ISO.  Sorry that took so long.  Had to work on the floor for a little while.  

First post of the game, votes for Len. While not odd in itself considering their relationship lately, it should be noted that this takes place in the middle of TG/AJ arguing. They are even arguing about Len and he doesn’t comment.

Two posts later, unvotes and votes AJ without explanation

Jokes on thread for awhile.

Explains his two votes when asked. An acceptable explanation, imo. Wish he'd explained without needing to be asked, but meh. 

Throws out three names for scum team. Looks to me like just choosing random names and throwing them together. I’ve seen him do this before.

Votes Clov without providing reasoning. Looks trollish.

Votes himself, says to look at Clov when he flips town. This strikes me as odd, because in the Dr. Who game he refused to vote himself. Granted he was survivor and this is obviously different, but it still looks weird considering Clov barely, if at all, pressured him. Not inherently scummy, though, imo.

Emo post about not being good at the game. And Emo post about Clov going ‘crazy’ after him and pushing AJ. This post is the scummiest so far, imo, because of the reaching on Clov.

Post in response to AJ.  I don’t agree with his conclusion on AJ, but I can follow where he’s coming from. Still doesn’t outright say he thinks AJ is scum though, despite the earlier soft push and the slightly harder push here.


Couple more emo posts, but it looks to me like he was actually upset by what AJ said.


An hour later, votes AJ. I don’t know if this is due to being upset by the “garbage” comment or because he actually thinks AJ is scum. Or both?

Poking at AJ.

Another ‘scum’ list.

Looks into/provides read on BFG. Looks townie to me, actually. It would be easy to call her outright scum, here, for the line regarding “I like how she cleared everyone I was pushing right before she voted me.”

“It’s good info if people are piling on for small stuff and I flip town.” I don’t agree with this line of thinking, but I’ve seen him exercise it before and I don’t see it coming from scum.

Argues with AJ re: bullying. Not relevant to the game, imo. Though to be noted again, commenting on something mostly outside of gameplay when Len and AJ were discussing the game. I’m surprised that he didn’t try to engage Len.

Asks Hallia who her scum reads are. Null, imo, because I think most people would have asked her.

Asks AJ if he’s scum, who is on his team. Maybe I’m too naïve, but I don’t see scum!Arsis asking this.

Another post about 1 mislynch being worth the information. Again, I don’t agree with this idea, but I can follow the line of thought.

Votes Len because “he’s scum”. Explanation would be nice, but I think this is null.

“We still playing this game?”  Not helpful, but not particularly scummy, imo.

“No idea what’s going on in this game?”  Not helpful, but not particularly scummy, imo. Actually, makes me think very slightly townish because otherwise he could have gotten the dirt on the QT.

Votes TG. I have no idea.

“Who are we lynching?” . -.- Not a fan of this. Or this.

Slow at work. I wish he’d provide SOMETHING in the thread then. Lazy. Scummy, though? I can’t tell. I feel like it would be easier to avoid the thread if you are scum and don’t want to/don’t have anything to say.

Here and here. -.- . This is where I start my slight tinfoil idea that Arsis could be trying to see if he can get away with derptrolling as scum.

Back to AJ.

Vote no lynch, followed immediately by a joke about the game being a ~bastard game.

Back to AJ. I don’t agree, but I can follow his reasoning. Follows immediately with guessing who his team would be. Maybe that was serious. Read to me as more poking at AJ.

Now that he answered me, sharp follow up to AJ here, imo.

Len and Des and AJ as scum teammates. Not sure if serious or still joking.

Votes Yates. I can’t follow as to why.

 

 

After looking this over, the majority of me thinks that Arsis is town.  Not really helpful, but town.  I don't see a lot of scum motivation in what he's doing.  There is a tiny part of me, though, as I said above, that thinks he could just be scum trying to see if he can get away with all the trolling/derping. 

[keyholder21]

I'm still most comfortable with keeping my vote on Len.  I don't have a good vibe from him and I think Yates's point regarding him not presenting many reads of his own is spot on.  

 

 

Now I HAVE to get some work done.  I should be able to be back on later after the baby goes to bed and I'll try to check periodically before that.  

[Yates]

Votes Yates. I can’t follow as to why.

I have an idea why.

[Andrej]

Here's what bothers me, though, he never really counter attacked TG. You know how Csarmi is over the top OMGUSy? I expect at least a LITTLE of that if you feel like someone is building a BS case on you. I know *I* do it if someone is using garbage logic to try to FRAME me [because I assume it's premeditated when the logic is so bad it can't be from a Town POV]. Does anyone with more experience with Lenlo feel like Town Lenlo would push back here? Because right now I'm reading this and thinking *I* would push back - unless I was scum trying to get a feel for who everyone was Town telling so I didn't rustle the wrong Townie.

 

The bit you talk about bad logic was my mindset irt TG. I just couldn't wrap my head around how he reacted to me and why I was suddenly scum. I don't think he presented his case that well.

 

As far as Len goes, I wouldn't say it's outside of his town game not to really address something like that. He reads genuinely confused by the push which I can agree could come from either alignment - but him being apathetic/non aggressive towards it is likely null.

 

 

 

I dont think my dorm room could hold a mob and I dont think I could clear it with my roomie.

 

For the state of the game, I wouldnt mind lynching Arsis just to get him to shut up. Like you people yell at me for being useless and not playing a pro-town game blah blah blah and yet what has he done? Seriously, tell me what hes done aside from being around and being a distraction? Reminds me abit of late era EP, whom you wouldnt know but im sure others remember.

 

Other than that I think AJ is town, your status is dependent on TG's, Dice/GF/BFG need to post more, like how Key has started to argue actual points instead of stupid semantics with me, Des is usually around more and this is odd for him, Clov is leaning town, Hally has been scare lately and I could go either way on TG.

Again - maybe I'm just bad at reading Lenlo but I don't think posts like this come from scum.

I don’t see where it comes from town?

Joke. Agreeing with the PL on Arsis. Ties Yates and TG together, says the lurkers need to post more. ‘likes’ something I’m doing that gets me off of him, casts suspicion –but not a lot and gives no read – on des, gives a read on Clov, says Hally has been scarce – which is not a read-, and is waffling on TG.

 

I feel like it’s mostly consensus, and possibly a bit of sheeping you, AJ (re: PL on Arsis and Yates suspicion due to TG).

 

I think you and I have different meanings when I say it comes from a townie place. I think you are looking in relation to game actions strictly, I'm speaking more on how the post sounds if that makes sense. Len doesn't come across as self conscious to me this game. Sure, he hasn't done a lot and yeah I agree his reads are more or less consensus but I don't think that's directly a bad thing for ~him although it doesn't look great either.

[Arsis]

 

Votes Yates. I can’t follow as to why.

I have an idea why.

Yeah, why?

[Andrej]

 

Arsis I just want dead at this point. Legit don't even care what alignment - he needs to go.

 

Normal game? PL wouldn't hurt my feelings. This game? I don't see how we are going to win. I plugged this setup into a mafia balance simulator. It's not pretty for Town.

 

We need people to Town tell like crazy and start a Town block within the next ~12-20 hours to have a chance.

 

I missed this earlier but saw Key respond to it so I went looking back.

 

Figured I would respond now.

 

I agree with you completely this one will be tough for town to win because it's basically vanilla so legit scum hunting is going to be key. Having several inactives as this stage with DL approaching is pretty bad.

 

I also made a statement earlier about how townies need to be town telling this game. Do you feel Arsis has done so? If anything, he's only served as a distraction and if I had to pick someone to lynch today it would easily be him just to remove it with the upside that he could actually just be scum and trolling.

[Yates]

I out of here at 4 and likely minimal posting over the weekend. Get at me now if you need anything from me.

 

I will try to get on before deadline but I don't really have time to do any heavy lifting.

 

Is GF being replaced?

 

Need more from Hally and BFG or they can swing, imo.

[Yates]

Yeah, why?

[Andrej]

 

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT 3:

Arsis (4/7): Len, Clov, BFG, AJ

Len (2/7):: Key, TG

TG (1/7): Des

Des (1/7): Yates

AJ (1/7): Arsis

 

 

Not voting (3/12):

Dice, Hally, GF

 

Deadline is in 23 hours. 

 

Not a pretty looking VC imo.

 

Dice/Hally/GF need to get in here ASAP and start using their votes, getting their thoughts out.

 

Would like to see more from BFG as well since she's been absent after voting for Arsis.

 

Arsis being lead wagon might be a bad thing, but still all good in my mind. I don't even really care to interpret his alignment anymore - he probably is town but I'd be happy to confirm this especially considering the caveat that townies ~usually get lynched D1.

 

I feel reasonably good about Key voting Len here. I could consolidate there if it came down to it, but I think he'll probably end up town as well. TG I still have my reservations on because I think he could just be scum that stumbled out of the blocks but I'm willing to wait until he can be back in the game fully.

 

That's basically where my head is atm. I would entertain stringing up one of the quieter players in the chance of hitting scum, but it's more or less a crap shoot imo.

[Yates]

Ha! I didn't even remember voting Des. I unvoted, though. So I'm in the not voting group.

[Andrej]

I'm not sure unvotes count this game since technically they aren't required to change your vote and Darthe has left them on the original target.

 

Important mechanic imo

[Andrej]

Yates - was it you who asked me earlier to explain my read on Dice a bit more?