Freemasons vs. Illuminati - LOOKING FOR ONE MORE PLAYER, QUICK GAME

[Andrej]

It's not bad in the way that scum have 'Mason' claims. I think it's actually more pro-Scum NOT to claim in this set up despite the fact we have no NK protection.

Without claiming there's no way of grouping people together. Essentially we'll have 6 'Mason' claims and 6 'not Mason' claims

 

2 of those 6 Mason claims will be scum. 1/3 is pretty damn good odds for Town. Not to mention the Seer can then check people to see if they're lying, which is really the only utilization they have this game besides being more or less a named Townie.

 

Claiming is going to be unavoidable in this game imo

[Yates]

You and TG both need to find your ways out of the tunnels you have dug. I think you are both pretty valuable if Town [as I suspect you both are] and it's hurting the game. I can't believe we are this far into the game and still talking about stuff from LITERALLY when the game started.

[Andrej]

 

It doesn't change the fact that he isn't afraid to attack people as scum.

 

And I agree with you. There are a number of tells he has from Day 2 going forward. What I'm saying is that he doesn't attack people as scum ON DAY 1. Is it *possible* he figured this out about himself on his own and changed his play knowing we would be in the game? I suppose. Is it *probable?* No. It isn't.

 

I'm done arguing his meta with you.

 

I think I have cased TG thoroughly since the game started. Read over him again and then look at my posts in relation.

 

If you still feel like there's a good chance he's Town then whatever - but I'm not going to stop pushing him.

[Andrej]

Dude - LOOK AT HIS PROGRESSION.

 

WHAT ABOUT HIS POSTS/VOTING PATTERNS/LOGIC ARE TOWNIE TO YOU

 

He's like retarded obvious scum to me.

[Yates]

Claiming is going to be unavoidable in this game imo

True. But I suspect it would go something like this:

 

AJ get's NKed - flips Mason.

 

Wagon comes down to Des and Key

 

Key gets run up.

 

Key claims - I'm AJ's Mason buddy!

 

Key supports claim.

 

Des gets lynched.

 

Des flips scum.

 

 

Sure, Key gets killed that night but saved us a mislynch and netted us scum.

[Yates]

He's like retarded obvious scum to me.

And he's like retarded obvious TOWN to me.

[Andrej]

Show me then.

 

Pull his quotes and give me a play by play of how you see him as so obviously Town this game.

 

Cause right now I'm seeing the KH scum!Yates who so adamantly defended his scumbro DPR on thread.

 

If we gotta fight tooth and nail this game like that one, so be it.

[Yates]

I am so confident in you BOTH being Town I would rather see MYSELF lynched than either of you. It's like SO obvious to me. I just don't understand how this is even happening right now.

[Arsis]

I just can't even.

[Yates]

Pull his quotes and give me a play by play of how you see him as so obviously Town this game.

JC. I don't have time for all that. I give you a half arsed version but I don't have time to go nuts. I need to siphon some beer into a bourbon barrel tonight!

[Clovdyx]

 

 

I think your either scum white knighting a townie, a scummate covering for a teammate who can't defend himself atm, or being way too over reliant on meta
 
Which is it?

Why can't I be his mason buddy with a distancing vote, huh?

I'm not "too reliant on meta." I think you aren't reliant enough. You guys are making up a bunch of nonsense that is objectively null at best or complete confirmation bias. And it looks terrible. And you should feel bad about that.

 

 

So you think we should ignore what's actually happening in favor of what's happened in the past and what MIGHT be happening here?  Regardless of alignment, that's just bad play.
 

Yates, I'm sticking with you. Who we voting for?

 

This isn't suspicious.

 

 

 

The Basterd game is a good example where he tried to used Despot's D1 read on me as the base of his 'case'. He came out of the gates trying to spin this narrative of how I was lock scum - sorta like he did this game.
 
I called it immediately.

Yeah but that didn't happen until Day 2. So you are sort of making my case for me. By Day 2 he had all of Day 1 and Night 1 chat in his pocket for feeling out the mood of the players.

 

 

Was Despot an early scum candidate in Woodstock?  TG's ISO in that game makes it look like he made a decent push at Des about halfway through D1, and he (TGlems) was scum.  I didn't follow along to know so I have no idea what kind of pressure Des was getting there, but your claim that TG wouldn't go at someone strongly D1 doesn't really mesh with my analysis of his personality.

[hazelkrs1]

If so that makes lynching TG such an absurdly obvious pick it's crazy. Either we get two scum for the price of one, or we get a confirmed townie and make it so the Seer doesn't have to out themselves viewing either one of you

This is terrible for multiple reasons:

1. Who cares about the Seer? Weakest version of "cop" in the history of mafia games ever. Literally can not nail a guilty OR innocent in this game.

2. I don't think our mason pairs should claim. Like. Ever.

3. In your scenario where I *am* Masons with TG, if you lynch TG I would be confirmed Town and thus the obvious NK with no protection role. How is that PRO TOWN?

 

That was probably the scummiest post of the Day phase.

 

 

You're actually right on pretty much all that stuff. I do disagree on #2 since I think it would DEF be protown to get something like that out in the open (scum would be more afraid of linking themselves and town masons will be confirmed by their partner's death so scum wouldn't want to kill them) but that point is moot today

 

But yeah I think I wasn't really thinking there, especially bout how with no protection gaining a conftown doesn't help us whatsoever

 

So I retract that line of thought

[Andrej]

To be fair, yes, Despot was under some fire D1 in the Woodstock game.

[hazelkrs1]

I still think AJ might be right about TG. Don't see why town!TG would change his stance on Lenlo's meta so inexplicably like that.

 

The way Yates is hard defending TG actually makes me doubt he's his teammate now, so I think he's just over-relying on meta to clear TG

[Yates]

1. Your fight started within the first hand full of posts right here in the justification semantic showcase showdown.

 

Maybe I'm jaded because I immediately understood what TG was saying/doing and you didn't. I don't know how he could have phrased "for justifying his vote" better but it seemed like a legit way to engage Len in discourse. In other words, it was a game starter. I tend to see game starting play as much more likely to come from Town. So does Key, fwiw.

 

2. Objectively, he's right that you look worse for voting him in post 100 after I had already voted him. I'm not saying you look scummy but I can see where this would look suspect from his POV.

 

3. His post 114 does not read as someone trying to "frame" you. It reads as someone genuinely trying to figure a player out.

 

4. I x posted with him in post 120 [well - technically the post before it] which shows you I at least had an idea of where his mind was at and so it felt genuine to me.

 

5. He turns his attention to you in post 125. The shift from Len to you did not look forced. It looked like someone had a game starter, got a bite, rolled with the results.

 

6. I like Clov's post 137, which I forgot about actually, where he basically just reaffirmed what I just said about TG meta. It looked TvT and TG was going against the grain, which is not in his scum range.

 

7. As of post 153 and post 157you are still talking about vote justifications. You needed to be past that already. It's pretty clear it was a game starter and it was legit. It doesn't even matter if HE has justified his votes before. The fact that he asked "why?" simply means "why?" It would be like me asking you why you just plopped a vote on someone WITHOUT justifying and asked you why. I'm sure I've done it in the past. It's irrelevant. If you weren't tunneling you'd know that.

 

8. I also like Key's post 199. I didn't remember Clov or Key defending TG but yeah. I am in agreement. So there are at least three of us agreeing that this is Town!TG and not Scum!TG. Not that it makes it so but you have some pretty reputable and astute players that are familiar with TG's meta telling you something and you are putting blinders on to it. Again - it's because you are tunneling.

 

9. Just read post 201 with fresh eyes. TG is basically calling you out on your tunnel without actually accusing you of tunneling. And he's right in that post, btw.

 

10. Post 204 is his Arsis vote. It looked like A. a wake up call to Arsis when he was in desperate need of one and B. TG trying to engage in something other than AJ vs TG. I think that's a good look.

 

11. If you guys are taking post 207 literally/seriously, then you are reading it wrong. The "vote Lenlo/Vig Lenlo" thing is practically a mem - as LENLO has pointed out.

 

That's all I have time for. I need to get out of here. But please read this and recognize you are tunneling on Town.

[Yates]

So I retract that line of thought

Fair enough.

 

[unvote]

 

I'm going to try to get back on tonight.

[Yates]

Was Despot an early scum candidate in Woodstock?

Despot is *always* an early scum candidate. Seriously, he was by the time TG slowly started to nod his way on to the Des wagon. He wasn't driving it, though.

[Clovdyx]

[unvote]

[v]Yates[/v]

 

Something about the way he's playing this game just doesn't make sense to me.  I can see how he would view the TG/AJ fight as town-on-town, but his way of handling it just seems wrong.  Threatening to vote himself if it means saving the two of them doesn't make any sense - as town, at best he can only know the alignment of ONE of them, so there's no reason to put his head on the chopping block to vouch both.  Furthermore, this was an hour ago.

 

 

You guys voting for someone AFK right now are looking pretty suspect.  If TG flips Town I'm coming after you guns a blazin.

 

That doesn't sound like somebody who should be offering himself as the sacrificial lamb to save AJ.  That sounds like somebody who should be trying to string AJ up.  The only other person who was pushing TGlems at the time that comment was made was Despot.  Now, Yates IS going after Despot, but it wasn't until Despot made another (admittedly, godawful) post so it doesn't seemed to have stemmed at ALL from his actual stance on TG's alignment but rather broken analysis.  Basically, the way he's defended TG this phase makes me conclude he wants to look good if TG gets lynched.

 

 

I also don't like the way he's tied himself to Arsis the entire game OR that his only real suspect throughout the dayphase, prior to pushing Despot over ONE post, has been BFG - who he's ignored since this discussion...

 

 

 

 

Can someone tell me if BFG is just confused or scum trying to start a bs narrative? I want to see if anyone else sees what I see.

 

The part where she misrepresented your joke vote or the part where she cleared half the game as town for no reason?

 

 

The part where she misrepresented your joke vote or the part where she cleared half the game as town for no reason?

Yes.

 

 

 

 

The part where she misrepresented your joke vote or the part where she cleared half the game as town for no reason?

Yes.

It's not enough for me to call her scum but it's certainly strange. On my slight scum lean list now. I like how she cleared everyone I was pushing right before she voted me.

 

 

 

Can someone tell me if BFG is just confused or scum trying to start a bs narrative? I want to see if anyone else sees what I see.

 

BFG has a knack on picking out little things like that. I wouldn't say I'm heavily leaning in either direction for her atm.

 

 

 

 

 

...even though she hasn't posted anything.  Meaning she can't possibly have somehow gotten in his good graces.

[Clovdyx]

Aaaaaand...

 

cut.

[Arsis]

[unvote]

 

[v]aj [/v]

[Yates]

That doesn't sound like somebody who should be offering himself as the sacrificial lamb to save AJ.  That sounds like somebody who should be trying to string AJ up.

I mean the sheeple following Town Tunneling AJ onto the TG wagon. There is no cog dis there.

 

Now, Yates IS going after Despot, but it wasn't until Despot made another (admittedly, godawful) post

I had to provide a better lynch and Des served himself up. I'm off Des, though, in case you didn't notice.

 

Basically, the way he's defended TG this phase makes me conclude he wants to look good if TG gets lynched.

Yup. Because he'll flip Town.

 

I also don't like the way he's tied himself to Arsis the entire game

Fair enough.

 

OR that his only real suspect throughout the dayphase, prior to pushing Despot over ONE post, has been BFG

Because people have been Town telling. *shrug*

 

- who he's ignored since this discussion...

 

...even though she hasn't posted anything.  Meaning she can't possibly have somehow gotten in his good graces.

Given what I have post ITT wrt attacking someone away from the thread, do you feel like it is ooc for me to not be attacking someone not in the thread?? It's hard to have an interaction with an empty chair. And when did I say she was in my good graces? As you said, she hasn't POSTED.

 

That was a pretty bad post, Clov. A better post would have been a critical response to my hard defense post of TG.

[Arsis]

Len, promise not to nk me again. We have the same chance as the doctor who game. Let's not ruin it!

[Clovdyx]

 

That doesn't sound like somebody who should be offering himself as the sacrificial lamb to save AJ.  That sounds like somebody who should be trying to string AJ up.

I mean the sheeple following Town Tunneling AJ onto the TG wagon. There is no cog dis there.

 

The only person sheeping AJ was Despot.  "You guys" made me think you meant both of them.

 

Now, Yates IS going after Despot, but it wasn't until Despot made another (admittedly, godawful) post

I had to provide a better lynch and Des served himself up. I'm off Des, though, in case you didn't notice.

 

I noticed after I made my post. :P

 

Basically, the way he's defended TG this phase makes me conclude he wants to look good if TG gets lynched.

Yup. Because he'll flip Town.

 

I also don't like the way he's tied himself to Arsis the entire game

Fair enough.

 

OR that his only real suspect throughout the dayphase, prior to pushing Despot over ONE post, has been BFG

Because people have been Town telling. *shrug*

 

For the most part, I don't disagree with this.  I would, however, expect that you would be making some sort of recommendation for what direction to take it.  If you think all major candidates are town (you seem to), and you establish your reasoning (I think you have, especially with the big post) that's fine...but don't just leave it up in the air.  It gives the impression you don't care, and I associate that with scum. 

 

- who he's ignored since this discussion...

 

...even though she hasn't posted anything.  Meaning she can't possibly have somehow gotten in his good graces.

Given what I have post ITT wrt attacking someone away from the thread, do you feel like it is ooc for me to not be attacking someone not in the thread?? It's hard to have an interaction with an empty chair. And when did I say she was in my good graces? As you said, she hasn't POSTED.

 

I didn't say you said that...I'm saying you CAN'T say that.  You seemingly had a suspect.  You hadn't really said anything about her...despite people, by your own admission, towntelling.  If she had been active and your read had evolved, that would be fine, but we're in agreement - she hasn't said anything.  Based on that, I have to assume you're still suspicious of her.  

 

I don't know how you play, but when I'm suspicious of somebody while I trust everybody else being pushed, I usually advocate for their lynch while explaining my townreads on the other candidates.  I don't sit on it and hope somebody else makes themselves a candidate.  You seem like a pretty vocal guy, so I assumed you would have, as well.

 

That was a pretty bad post, Clov. A better post would have been a critical response to my hard defense post of TG.

 

 

I can't respond to something that wasn't there.  

 

Now that it is there though, I appreciate the effort and agree with most of your conclusions (#1 and #3 being the most pertinent; don't really agree that TG was right about AJ looking worse, but from his POV I might).  I thought you offered to explain your read and was pretty down on you when you refused to give AJ the answers that he wanted (post 460), but you followed up well.  I can't see the scum motivation for that kind of effort in defending town at this stage, so TG being town would definitely put you in the strong town candidates.   

[Arsis]

I'm impressed more with the colors. Red and blue. Pretty.

[Clovdyx]

I'm impressed more with the colors. Red and blue. Pretty.

 

If you base solely on color coordination, I'm widely considered to be the best mafia player on the site.