[Basic]TRON Mafia Game-Day 4

Tyler Glembo · July 30, 2014

@Tommy - SPK?

Tommyrod · July 30, 2014

@Tommy - SPK?

Strong Player Kill.

Myndrunner · July 30, 2014

Mynd, I'll respond one thought at a time: I don't understand how your observations match your conclusions. Three people being more likely scum than TG means almost everyone in this game is more likely to be scum than TG, so why do you keep bringing it up and calling him scummy? Why aren't you pushing that lucky triumvirate?

Again, the best analogy I can come up with is that TG is the best looking burn victim. There are three players who I feel are more likely scum, but it doesn't mean that TG is suddenly clear because of it. I think you are starting to deliberately split hairs here. I have five out of the remaining seven players who I believe are good candidates for scum for different reasons. Those reasons I will share with everyone after N3 ends. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out who at least two of them are at this point, but TG is still a possibility.

I'm not sure how thinking three people are more likely scum means TG should be cleared in my mind.

It's not that he should be clear to you, it's that you should be doing something else. Posting about your suspects, finding reasons to confirm your reads, interrogating your suspects. Have you been doing that? I don't even know who those 3 would be, and when I can't follow someone's thought process despite being in the thread with them, I grow concerned.

Not until Day 4 though. We are still Night 3 and as I have said numerous times, the case will happen on Day 4. I've said enough already that you should have a pretty good idea who I suspect.

Remember, you asked the question to start about if I had cooled on TG or not. I haven't....but I feel there are scummier fish in the sea now.

Myndrunner · July 30, 2014

Mynd, Point #2: I agree with what Clov said about you -- you didn't evolve after TG responded to you. Your case was 4/10, his reaction was bad, but you just kept harping on and on and on about it despite dismissing his response to you outright with the "methinks she doth protest too much" comment. So it's not a problem of "how did TG" respond, it's a problem of "how did you respond to how TG responded."

It was his initial reaction not his much delayed response that made him scummy.

Tommyrod · July 30, 2014

Mynd, I'll respond one thought at a time: I don't understand how your observations match your conclusions. Three people being more likely scum than TG means almost everyone in this game is more likely to be scum than TG, so why do you keep bringing it up and calling him scummy? Why aren't you pushing that lucky triumvirate?

Again, the best analogy I can come up with is that TG is the best looking burn victim. There are three players who I feel are more likely scum, but it doesn't mean that TG is suddenly clear because of it. I think you are starting to deliberately split hairs here. I have five out of the remaining seven players who I believe are good candidates for scum for different reasons. Those reasons I will share with everyone after N3 ends. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out who at least two of them are at this point, but TG is still a possibility.

I'm not sure how thinking three people are more likely scum means TG should be cleared in my mind.

It's not that he should be clear to you, it's that you should be doing something else. Posting about your suspects, finding reasons to confirm your reads, interrogating your suspects. Have you been doing that? I don't even know who those 3 would be, and when I can't follow someone's thought process despite being in the thread with them, I grow concerned.

Not until Day 4 though. We are still Night 3 and as I have said numerous times, the case will happen on Day 4. I've said enough already that you should have a pretty good idea who I suspect.

Remember, you asked the question to start about if I had cooled on TG or not. I haven't....but I feel there are scummier fish in the sea now.

I don't understand being cryptic about it.

Let's try this another way. Do you think anyone is >>rand town?

Tommyrod · July 30, 2014

Mynd, Point #2: I agree with what Clov said about you -- you didn't evolve after TG responded to you. Your case was 4/10, his reaction was bad, but you just kept harping on and on and on about it despite dismissing his response to you outright with the "methinks she doth protest too much" comment. So it's not a problem of "how did TG" respond, it's a problem of "how did you respond to how TG responded."

It was his initial reaction not his much delayed response that made him scummy.

I get that, but Clov's point in that MQ was that you blew off TG's entire response and then continue to ignore it and restate that his initial reaction was poor so nothing else matters.

Myndrunner · July 30, 2014

Mynd, Point #2: I agree with what Clov said about you -- you didn't evolve after TG responded to you. Your case was 4/10, his reaction was bad, but you just kept harping on and on and on about it despite dismissing his response to you outright with the "methinks she doth protest too much" comment. So it's not a problem of "how did TG" respond, it's a problem of "how did you respond to how TG responded."

It was his initial reaction not his much delayed response that made him scummy.

I get that, but Clov's point in that MQ was that you blew off TG's entire response and then continue to ignore it and restate that his initial reaction was poor so nothing else matters.

That is true. And at that point, it didn't. Again, all I did was present a case. Its up to the rest of the town to either agree, disagree, or pick it apart and take what makes sense and toss out what doesn't.

Tommyrod · July 30, 2014

I... what?

So you presented a case just for reactions, got a reaction, and decided to ignore the rebuttal to the case because you got the reaction you wanted and that's all you needed, the actual logic or details don't matter?

I don't even know you that well and can safely say that doesn't sound like your style.

In the last game we were v/v you followed logic trails and left updated reads lists fairly regularly. Here you're epousing an emotive style and have difficulty updating your reads. Sup wit dat?

RandA lThor · July 30, 2014

Holy cow there's so much to respond to right now, but I have work to do. :(

Mynd, you said there were 5 people you could call scum. That's everyone but you and the uncced cop. :P

Darthe, did you view TG as town?

TG and Mynd keep going at each others throats because of what happened before. Counseling: TG, you are low on Mynd's scum list which consists of nearly everyone. Instead of continuing to defend yourself and say Mynd is trolling (which he doesn't really do as either town or mafia), just focus on game analysis, or just wait patiently through the night.

Mynd: you are continuing a case on someone who in your view is less than random to be scummy. Even if you see him as scummy, the fact that 3 people are ahead of him on your scum list out of 6 people you don't know and one is an uncced cop in a basic game, means that he is less than random. Either focus your cases on the other people or wait for day.

Also @ Tommy, you're starting to case people that don't play like you with NotBob. You need to accept the fact that his playstyle is different than yours, involves less fancy talk, thread reading, meta analysis, and post quoting. He kinda posts stuff he thought was scummy as he goes, and the way he's playing is not indicative of his alignment. Its a less intense playstyle, but also one that avoids overanalyzing situations, which I really think you are starting to do. Or sometimes you even underanalyze situations and take things for granted. Can't quote right now obv, but will look for it later. One of the things I'm talking about is maf spew. Maf like to reference teammates in many different ways that changes based on the teammates present on the team, the persons interacting, and however they are feeling when game starts. Sometimes they distance, sometimes they act as a group to gain more influence and confuse town, sometimes they never even reference each other, sometimes they only joke with each other. Each of these interactions can occur between townies, and mafia can have the same type of interaction with town as they do with scum. Its a null tell, you're looking way too much into something which has a high chance of having no real proof.

K now that thats done, I have to return to my work. >.> I hate homework and I hate the fact I procrastinated so much.

Tommyrod · July 30, 2014

Holy cow there's so much to respond to right now, but I have work to do. :(

Mynd, you said there were 5 people you could call scum. That's everyone but you and the uncced cop. :P

Darthe, did you view TG as town?

TG and Mynd keep going at each others throats because of what happened before. Counseling: TG, you are low on Mynd's scum list which consists of nearly everyone. Instead of continuing to defend yourself and say Mynd is trolling (which he doesn't really do as either town or mafia), just focus on game analysis, or just wait patiently through the night.

Mynd: you are continuing a case on someone who in your view is less than random to be scummy. Even if you see him as scummy, the fact that 3 people are ahead of him on your scum list out of 6 people you don't know and one is an uncced cop in a basic game, means that he is less than random. Either focus your cases on the other people or wait for day.

Also @ Tommy, you're starting to case people that don't play like you with NotBob. You need to accept the fact that his playstyle is different than yours, involves less fancy talk, thread reading, meta analysis, and post quoting. He kinda posts stuff he thought was scummy as he goes, and the way he's playing is not indicative of his alignment. Its a less intense playstyle, but also one that avoids overanalyzing situations, which I really think you are starting to do. Or sometimes you even underanalyze situations and take things for granted. Can't quote right now obv, but will look for it later. One of the things I'm talking about is maf spew. Maf like to reference teammates in many different ways that changes based on the teammates present on the team, the persons interacting, and however they are feeling when game starts. Sometimes they distance, sometimes they act as a group to gain more influence and confuse town, sometimes they never even reference each other, sometimes they only joke with each other. Each of these interactions can occur between townies, and mafia can have the same type of interaction with town as they do with scum. Its a null tell, you're looking way too much into something which has a high chance of having no real proof.

K now that thats done, I have to return to my work. >.> I hate homework and I hate the fact I procrastinated so much.

Who are your town/scum reads?

Myndrunner · July 30, 2014

I... what?

So you presented a case just for reactions, got a reaction, and decided to ignore the rebuttal to the case because you got the reaction you wanted and that's all you needed, the actual logic or details don't matter?

I don't even know you that well and can safely say that doesn't sound like your style.

In the last game we were v/v you followed logic trails and left updated reads lists fairly regularly. Here you're epousing an emotive style and have difficulty updating your reads. Sup wit dat?

Actually, its closer to my old style than how I've been playing here recently.

The thing is, I really don't know man. Everyone seems scummy, as I've said before. I've even been considering Darthe as a LLL or somehow corrupted, but he's still an uncc'd cop. I don't think there is a vig because we haven't seen multiple kills....unless the vig is a one shot deal and has been holding it.

TG seemed scummy and his rebuttal was a bunch of TLDR. I got a reaction out of him that lead me to believe he was scummy, but again, you both keep acting like he's still my #1 scum read...he's not.

Myndrunner · July 30, 2014

Holy cow there's so much to respond to right now, but I have work to do. :(

Mynd, you said there were 5 people you could call scum. That's everyone but you and the uncced cop. :P

Exactly my point, but the order in which each of those players falls is important.....but I can see a case for scum on each of you.

Tommyrod · July 30, 2014

I... what?

So you presented a case just for reactions, got a reaction, and decided to ignore the rebuttal to the case because you got the reaction you wanted and that's all you needed, the actual logic or details don't matter?

I don't even know you that well and can safely say that doesn't sound like your style.

In the last game we were v/v you followed logic trails and left updated reads lists fairly regularly. Here you're epousing an emotive style and have difficulty updating your reads. Sup wit dat?

Actually, its closer to my old style than how I've been playing here recently.

The thing is, I really don't know man. Everyone seems scummy, as I've said before. I've even been considering Darthe as a LLL or somehow corrupted, but he's still an uncc'd cop. I don't think there is a vig because we haven't seen multiple kills....unless the vig is a one shot deal and has been holding it.

TG seemed scummy and his rebuttal was a bunch of TLDR. I got a reaction out of him that lead me to believe he was scummy, but again, you both keep acting like he's still my #1 scum read...he's not.

Why the style change? Do you think this one is better? I had an easier time clearing you for the other one.

What does LLL mean?

Tyler Glembo · July 30, 2014

Holy cow there's so much to respond to right now, but I have work to do. :(

Mynd, you said there were 5 people you could call scum. That's everyone but you and the uncced cop. :P

Exactly my point, but the order in which each of those players falls is important.....but I can see a case for scum on each of you.

Unfortunately I agree with you. To summarize very briefly...

Tommy for what I've previously stated.

Clov for how he seems to stay above the fray.

Rand for his engagement with multiple players who have flipped town.

NB for his utter nonchalance.

Mynd for...well, I don't think I actually need to say anything here :-)

Tyler Glembo · July 30, 2014

LLL is lying liar who lies.

Tommyrod · July 30, 2014

Basically you're all scum and I hate you all and if we lose this game it's entirely your collective faults and not at all mine.

Agreed?

Tommyrod · July 30, 2014

I'm awarding some villa points to people who were around today and bothered to respond to me at all. Then I'm rescinding them because you're all terrible.

Darthe · July 30, 2014

You hammered a townie because you couldn't be patient. I clearly blame you and also infer that there is no foreplay in your sex life.

Tyler Glembo · July 30, 2014

Basically you're all scum and I hate you all and if we lose this game it's entirely your collective faults and not at all mine.

Agreed?

Tommyrod · July 30, 2014

You hammered a townie because you couldn't be patient. I clearly blame you and also infer that there is no foreplay in your sex life.

And you're a pedant that has no sense of fashion.

Tyler Glembo · July 30, 2014

You hammered a townie because you couldn't be patient. I clearly blame you and also infer that there is no foreplay in your sex life.

I find your base assumption that Tommy has a sex life to be....baseless.

Tommyrod · July 30, 2014

Sex chest though

Tyler Glembo · July 30, 2014

Sex chest though

It doesn't count as a sex life when you're the only one who has ever used it.

Tyler Glembo · July 30, 2014

I'm going to go shower now. Naked.

Myndrunner · July 30, 2014

I... what?

So you presented a case just for reactions, got a reaction, and decided to ignore the rebuttal to the case because you got the reaction you wanted and that's all you needed, the actual logic or details don't matter?

I don't even know you that well and can safely say that doesn't sound like your style.

In the last game we were v/v you followed logic trails and left updated reads lists fairly regularly. Here you're epousing an emotive style and have difficulty updating your reads. Sup wit dat?

Actually, its closer to my old style than how I've been playing here recently.

The thing is, I really don't know man. Everyone seems scummy, as I've said before. I've even been considering Darthe as a LLL or somehow corrupted, but he's still an uncc'd cop. I don't think there is a vig because we haven't seen multiple kills....unless the vig is a one shot deal and has been holding it.

TG seemed scummy and his rebuttal was a bunch of TLDR. I got a reaction out of him that lead me to believe he was scummy, but again, you both keep acting like he's still my #1 scum read...he's not.

Why the style change? Do you think this one is better? I had an easier time clearing you for the other one.

What does LLL mean?

I'm trying to find a balance between the two. I was having a hard time with logic and reads in this game so I tried shaking things up. TG was pinging me with his early gameplay (focus on an inactive, then flop between silly and serious) but I went for it. His reaction furthered me into a mindset that I must have been onto something.

My old way sometimes would hurt the town more than help, but it also sometimes lead to some brilliant mafia catching. I feel much more relaxed as a VT and I can be a bit more aggressive with my plays than if I was roled or mafia.

I'll have more details tomorrow, but here is the thing....I think you're my #2 mafia. I think you have been playing a spectacular game and have been asking the right questions, putting just enough distance from the other scummies as you could, but I think this whole "im not trolling this time" has been a gambit from the beginning. It was a very well thought out cover for how you were going to play more low key.

#1 is Clov actually. He seems to be looking for who he can get a lynch going on, but Nyn's half-arsed deal with him pinged me the most.

#3 is Not Bob, who has been hovering at #2 for a while until my last re-read.

#4 is TG for reasons beaten more than an army of dead horses.

#5 is Rand, who is still a scum candidate for reasons to be given tomorrow.

These aren't on a scale of Scum to Town. These are on a scale of OMG SCUM to Pretty Scummy.

Darthe is one who I am beginning to question but still, Occam's Razor says he's the cop.

LLL = Lying Liar who Lies.

[Basic]TRON Mafia Game-Day 4

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