[Advanced] Twilight Mafia Game over - Mafia win

Tommyrod · April 22, 2014

I (again) am 99% sure Verb is town.

I'm fine with him being off the table for today, but when we get down to like 1 scum left, I'll want less cryptic assurance if possible.

Tommyrod · April 22, 2014

Kinda annoyed at Darthe right now for not being willing to cooperate and going into cryptic mode at the end there. I'm sure Des will have choice words.

Clovdyx · April 22, 2014

Lenlo, what are you thinking about asking tonight?

Darthe · April 22, 2014

Lolz go town

Tommyrod · April 22, 2014

Clov, why are you not going buck wild on me right now? Where's the case, the pressure?

hazelkrs1 · April 22, 2014

No way in hell I buy all those questions conveniently being the ones Lenlo asks. What should be the most OP Oracle ever has essentially been completely useless to town. Nuh uh.

Vote Lenlo

Oh and anyone who didn't see the YOLO Darthekill shot coming don't know me well enough :tongue:

Clovdyx · April 22, 2014

Clov, why are you not going buck wild on me right now? Where's the case, the pressure?

The past three pages.

Tommyrod · April 22, 2014

No way in hell I buy all those questions conveniently being the ones Lenlo asks. What should be the most OP Oracle ever has essentially been completely useless to town. Nuh uh.

Vote Lenlo

Oh and anyone who didn't see the YOLO Darthekill shot coming don't know me well enough

Can you run me through your thought process there? Curious.

Tommyrod · April 22, 2014

Clov, why are you not going buck wild on me right now? Where's the case, the pressure?

The past three pages.

That's not a case, that's you being a stickler for phrasing.

I expect more.

Clovdyx · April 22, 2014

Clov, why are you not going buck wild on me right now? Where's the case, the pressure?

The past three pages.

That's not a case, that's you being a stickler for phrasing.

I expect more.

Unfortunately, I really don't care what you expect. It's you I'm lynching - I could write a forty page dissertation on why you're scum, and you're not going to come in and say, "Oh man, that's a damn compelling argument. You're wrong, but I have nothing but admiration for your efforts" and lynch yourself. Anybody paying attention should have realized that I called you out on something completely legit and your only defense was to bash me for it then resort to denouncing my efforts, instead of actually attempting to prove me wrong based on what's happened this game.

If it wasn't blatantly obvious BEFORE the Dice/Tina decision, it should have been after. If you read Dice as scum, fine, whatever - that happens. It still doesn't excuse your random vote that came prior to you reading up (and therefore, being able to reach an informed conclusion), and it doesn't excuse you moving off him twenty minutes after he claimed - unless you bought his claim 100%. By your own admission, that wasn't the case.

Your posts towards me today suggest you're not afraid to be wrong, and Town!Tom typically isn't afraid to be wrong. The way I see it, there are three possible situations for your quick vote change:

You thought he was telling the truth
You knew your argument towards him was awful
You really didn't care who got lynched

Number one is reasonable enough, but again, YOU shot that down. You've been willing to jump at anything that moves all game, and you don't like that you're being called out for it, and you certainly can't refute it. THAT's why you're laughing at my "being a stickler" and disregarding it. And that's why I'm convinced you're scum.

hazelkrs1 · April 22, 2014

Dawn

Des

Clov

Tommy

Hallia

Verbal

Pray

Lenlo

is who we got left.

Des

Clov

Hallia

Verb

are all LOCK CLEAR imo. Only one I might tinfoil on is mebbe Verbal. I buy Hallia's w/e role it is, and also think her trying to keep from revealing is protown. She apparently has info that leads to Tommy being town, so excluding GF or something, let's take him out of the picture as well.

Which leaves Dawn, Pray, and Lenlo.

That simple? I believe so.

Engaging #ULTRADESLOCKCLEARMODE

Lenlo · April 22, 2014

No way in hell I buy all those questions conveniently being the ones Lenlo asks. What should be the most OP Oracle ever has essentially been completely useless to town. Nuh uh.

Vote Lenlo

Oh and anyone who didn't see the YOLO Darthekill shot coming don't know me well enough

You knew I was going to be asking them, yet shot Darthe anyways when I could easily have confirmed him last night.

Lenlo, what are you thinking about asking tonight?

I havnt decided yet.

hazelkrs1 · April 22, 2014

No way in hell I buy all those questions conveniently being the ones Lenlo asks. What should be the most OP Oracle ever has essentially been completely useless to town. Nuh uh.

Vote Lenlo

Oh and anyone who didn't see the YOLO Darthekill shot coming don't know me well enough

Can you run me through your thought process there? Curious.

Pretty simple really. Was possible he was scum hiding in plain sight, and his behavior on thread made him >>>>rand to be scum. If he was town after all, his role was more of a negative ulitity role really, so not much loss.

Plus, YOLO. He stole my vote for stupid reasons, I respond in kind. It's his fault for showing up to a gunfight with a vote stealing ability.

Leelou · April 22, 2014

Vote Count

Tommy (1) - Clov

Clov (1) - Tommy

Lenlo (1) - Des

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to vote

hazelkrs1 · April 22, 2014

I still just don't buy that Leelou would put a town Oracle that could ask three questions a night Lenlo. I think no matter what you would have just confirmed all the town role claims since that would be easy to do as scum.

Clovdyx · April 22, 2014

I still just don't buy that Leelou would put a town Oracle that could ask three questions a night Lenlo. I think no matter what you would have just confirmed all the town role claims since that would be easy to do as scum.

Yep - it's not like he could have lied about it, after all. Best thing scum could do was just confirm all the town claims and hope nobody was setting a trap. Even then, he'd have an out among the unclaimed players.

Tommyrod · April 22, 2014

Clov, why are you not going buck wild on me right now? Where's the case, the pressure?
The past three pages.
That's not a case, that's you being a stickler for phrasing.

I expect more.

Unfortunately, I really don't care what you expect. It's you I'm lynching - I could write a forty page dissertation on why you're scum, and you're not going to come in and say, "Oh man, that's a damn compelling argument. You're wrong, but I have nothing but admiration for your efforts" and lynch yourself. Anybody paying attention should have realized that I called you out on something completely legit and your only defense was to bash me for it then resort to denouncing my efforts, instead of actually attempting to prove me wrong based on what's happened this game.

If it wasn't blatantly obvious BEFORE the Dice/Tina decision, it should have been after. If you read Dice as scum, fine, whatever - that happens. It still doesn't excuse your random vote that came prior to you reading up (and therefore, being able to reach an informed conclusion), and it doesn't excuse you moving off him twenty minutes after he claimed - unless you bought his claim 100%. By your own admission, that wasn't the case.

Your posts towards me today suggest you're not afraid to be wrong, and Town!Tom typically isn't afraid to be wrong. The way I see it, there are three possible situations for your quick vote change:

You thought he was telling the truth

You knew your argument towards him was awful

You really didn't care who got lynched

Number one is reasonable enough, but again, YOU shot that down. You've been willing to jump at anything that moves all game, and you don't like that you're being called out for it, and you certainly can't refute it. THAT's why you're laughing at my "being a stickler" and disregarding it. And that's why I'm convinced you're scum.

Okay, so this is where I take the "are you reading the thread?" line and turn it back on you. I've talked about all of this already, and some of what you said is misinformed or just you twisting the truth to fit your narrative.

1. I talked about voting for Dice. It was a blend of prior suspicion built in my mind, POE, and wanting to see if anyone would jump on with me. I already had the suspicion and developed it, and I also vetted other players in the process. By his own admission he played bad and was hiding, so I'm not surprised I thought he was scum. This also isn't the sort of mistake I would make were I scum, it's amateur hour stuff.

2. I didn't have time to pump Dice for info. He claimed. I questioned him on it immediately. He had a hard time responding, but he didn't seem concerned with placating me, he just wanted his claim out there and to be done with it. That showed me he believed in his claim (because it was true). We had about 50 minutes to pick the next lynch after that -- a point you continually ignore. It's actually important. We all acted with limited time and limited information following the collapse of a leading wagon (Dice). You weren't even participating, so buzz off about it.

3. I don't get what you're saying here. I sound like town Tom, and I just stated it was a case of me believing his claim (or at the least recognizing that lynching him that moment when he wasn't concerned with concocting a cover story was probably a bad play) and wanting to secure a lynch on a scummy player. We did that. Just so happened that scummy player was town. Turns out I made the correctly play regarding Dice as he just flipped. I regret Tina because she's a decent player, but 20/20.

Go bother Des if this is the kind of level zero logic you're going to implement. Ask him why he shot a townie. He must be lock scum to you too.

Let's try another approach: imagine a reality in which I am town. Now what? Who are the scum?

Tommyrod · April 22, 2014

I still just don't buy that Leelou would put a town Oracle that could ask three questions a night Lenlo. I think no matter what you would have just confirmed all the town role claims since that would be easy to do as scum.

It's a lot of power, yeah. Especially if we have a soft hinted cop, a watcher, etc. as well. I've never seen a 3x a night role confirmer before.

Tommyrod · April 22, 2014

I still just don't buy that Leelou would put a town Oracle that could ask three questions a night Lenlo. I think no matter what you would have just confirmed all the town role claims since that would be easy to do as scum.

Yep - it's not like he could have lied about it, after all. Best thing scum could do was just confirm all the town claims and hope nobody was setting a trap. Even then, he'd have an out among the unclaimed players.

Oh no we agree: LOCK SCUM!!

Clovdyx · April 22, 2014

Clov, why are you not going buck wild on me right now? Where's the case, the pressure?
The past three pages.
That's not a case, that's you being a stickler for phrasing.

I expect more.

Unfortunately, I really don't care what you expect. It's you I'm lynching - I could write a forty page dissertation on why you're scum, and you're not going to come in and say, "Oh man, that's a damn compelling argument. You're wrong, but I have nothing but admiration for your efforts" and lynch yourself. Anybody paying attention should have realized that I called you out on something completely legit and your only defense was to bash me for it then resort to denouncing my efforts, instead of actually attempting to prove me wrong based on what's happened this game.

If it wasn't blatantly obvious BEFORE the Dice/Tina decision, it should have been after. If you read Dice as scum, fine, whatever - that happens. It still doesn't excuse your random vote that came prior to you reading up (and therefore, being able to reach an informed conclusion), and it doesn't excuse you moving off him twenty minutes after he claimed - unless you bought his claim 100%. By your own admission, that wasn't the case.

Your posts towards me today suggest you're not afraid to be wrong, and Town!Tom typically isn't afraid to be wrong. The way I see it, there are three possible situations for your quick vote change:

You thought he was telling the truth

You knew your argument towards him was awful

You really didn't care who got lynched

Number one is reasonable enough, but again, YOU shot that down. You've been willing to jump at anything that moves all game, and you don't like that you're being called out for it, and you certainly can't refute it. THAT's why you're laughing at my "being a stickler" and disregarding it. And that's why I'm convinced you're scum.

Okay, so this is where I take the "are you reading the thread?" line and turn it back on you. I've talked about all of this already, and some of what you said is misinformed or just you twisting the truth to fit your narrative.

1. I talked about voting for Dice. It was a blend of prior suspicion built in my mind, POE, and wanting to see if anyone would jump on with me. I already had the suspicion and developed it, and I also vetted other players in the process. By his own admission he played bad and was hiding, so I'm not surprised I thought he was scum. This also isn't the sort of mistake I would make were I scum, it's amateur hour stuff.

2. I didn't have time to pump Dice for info. He claimed. I questioned him on it immediately. He had a hard time responding, but he didn't seem concerned with placating me, he just wanted his claim out there and to be done with it. That showed me he believed in his claim (because it was true). We had about 50 minutes to pick the next lynch after that -- a point you continually ignore. It's actually important. We all acted with limited time and limited information following the collapse of a leading wagon (Dice). You weren't even participating, so buzz off about it.

3. I don't get what you're saying here. I sound like town Tom, and I just stated it was a case of me believing his claim (or at the least recognizing that lynching him that moment when he wasn't concerned with concocting a cover story was probably a bad play) and wanting to secure a lynch on a scummy player. We did that. Just so happened that scummy player was town. Turns out I made the correctly play regarding Dice as he just flipped. I regret Tina because she's a decent player, but 20/20.

Go bother Des if this is the kind of level zero logic you're going to implement. Ask him why he shot a townie. He must be lock scum to you too.

Let's try another approach: imagine a reality in which I am town. Now what? Who are the scum?

Lenlo and Dawn are my other strong suspects. Third is up in the air at this point.

Tommyrod · April 22, 2014

WHY NOT PRAL? SLANKER CREW.

Clovdyx · April 22, 2014

WHY NOT PRAL? SLANKER CREW.

He could certainly be the third mafia member. I don't have anything to clear him. His long catch up post (1443) made some points I agreed with (Dawn's answers being unsatisfactory, you seemingly guiding her, vote hopping) but still want to see more from him. At this stage in the game, he's basically true null, and that's not good.

dawnflower8 · April 22, 2014

Looks like Des shot Darthe? I don't hate that shot, but still sucks. Why is Des a werewolf? Are there good ones in this story?

I say we get Dawn talking. The noob pass has expired. Thoughts are now required.

(In before she says Dice seems like town)

I'm sorry...I have SCHOOL. I cannot be on this game at all times.

Well, now that we know Darthe is town (which makes me very disappointed...I really thought he was scum.) so I can assume that Des is also town. Besides Hallia, I need new suspects. Even though I thought Tommy was town before, I'm starting to change my mind. Earlier in the game, he seemed very town. But he was also sort-of accusing Darthe of maybe being scum, if I remember right...and he was agreeing with me about stuff. He's an experienced player, isn't he? Why would he be agreeing with a newbie?

But Hallia is still my top suspect. Vote Hallia.

Dawn

Des

Clov

Tommy

Hallia

Verbal

Pray

Lenlo

is who we got left.

Des

Clov

Hallia

Verb

are all LOCK CLEAR imo. Only one I might tinfoil on is mebbe Verbal. I buy Hallia's w/e role it is, and also think her trying to keep from revealing is protown. She apparently has info that leads to Tommy being town, so excluding GF or something, let's take him out of the picture as well.

Which leaves Dawn, Pray, and Lenlo.

That simple? I believe so.

Engaging #ULTRADESLOCKCLEARMODE

I'm wondering how you've come to this conclusion. And why in the world would you lock clear Hallia?

Clov, why are you not going buck wild on me right now? Where's the case, the pressure?
The past three pages.
That's not a case, that's you being a stickler for phrasing.

I expect more.

Unfortunately, I really don't care what you expect. It's you I'm lynching - I could write a forty page dissertation on why you're scum, and you're not going to come in and say, "Oh man, that's a damn compelling argument. You're wrong, but I have nothing but admiration for your efforts" and lynch yourself. Anybody paying attention should have realized that I called you out on something completely legit and your only defense was to bash me for it then resort to denouncing my efforts, instead of actually attempting to prove me wrong based on what's happened this game.

If it wasn't blatantly obvious BEFORE the Dice/Tina decision, it should have been after. If you read Dice as scum, fine, whatever - that happens. It still doesn't excuse your random vote that came prior to you reading up (and therefore, being able to reach an informed conclusion), and it doesn't excuse you moving off him twenty minutes after he claimed - unless you bought his claim 100%. By your own admission, that wasn't the case.

Your posts towards me today suggest you're not afraid to be wrong, and Town!Tom typically isn't afraid to be wrong. The way I see it, there are three possible situations for your quick vote change:

You thought he was telling the truth

You knew your argument towards him was awful

You really didn't care who got lynched

Number one is reasonable enough, but again, YOU shot that down. You've been willing to jump at anything that moves all game, and you don't like that you're being called out for it, and you certainly can't refute it. THAT's why you're laughing at my "being a stickler" and disregarding it. And that's why I'm convinced you're scum.

Okay, so this is where I take the "are you reading the thread?" line and turn it back on you. I've talked about all of this already, and some of what you said is misinformed or just you twisting the truth to fit your narrative.

1. I talked about voting for Dice. It was a blend of prior suspicion built in my mind, POE, and wanting to see if anyone would jump on with me. I already had the suspicion and developed it, and I also vetted other players in the process. By his own admission he played bad and was hiding, so I'm not surprised I thought he was scum. This also isn't the sort of mistake I would make were I scum, it's amateur hour stuff.

2. I didn't have time to pump Dice for info. He claimed. I questioned him on it immediately. He had a hard time responding, but he didn't seem concerned with placating me, he just wanted his claim out there and to be done with it. That showed me he believed in his claim (because it was true). We had about 50 minutes to pick the next lynch after that -- a point you continually ignore. It's actually important. We all acted with limited time and limited information following the collapse of a leading wagon (Dice). You weren't even participating, so buzz off about it.

3. I don't get what you're saying here. I sound like town Tom, and I just stated it was a case of me believing his claim (or at the least recognizing that lynching him that moment when he wasn't concerned with concocting a cover story was probably a bad play) and wanting to secure a lynch on a scummy player. We did that. Just so happened that scummy player was town. Turns out I made the correctly play regarding Dice as he just flipped. I regret Tina because she's a decent player, but 20/20.

Go bother Des if this is the kind of level zero logic you're going to implement. Ask him why he shot a townie. He must be lock scum to you too.

Let's try another approach: imagine a reality in which I am town. Now what? Who are the scum?

Lenlo and Dawn are my other strong suspects. Third is up in the air at this point.

Why am I one of your suspects?

Clovdyx · April 22, 2014

Why am I one of your suspects?

I think you've been playing up the noob card for more than I've seen anyone do - even when they're in their first game. I get that playing your first game on your own can be fairly daunting, but I just really struggle to wrap my head around ANY of the reads you've had. Earlier in the game, you said that Despot, Darthe, and I were your top scum reads. This was when Darthe and Des had spent nearly all of D1 feuding with each other and genuinely attempting to get the other lynched. Both are experienced players seemingly capable of taking over leadership roles - there's no plausible reason for them to focus on attacking each other.

I know your reads have moved around a bit, but with Darthe dead, you say you can assume that Des is town. Why? If you're reaching that conclusion based off his threadplay, I don't see how you weren't there prior to the nightflips.

This also explains why I voted you yesterday (to answer your question from before) - inconsistent reads-to-actions. You made it perfectly clear that you wanted to lynch Hallia. Fair enough. Then why would you follow a lynch that she was the first person on? I don't know Hallia, but I would imagine that she's not going to start a lynch on an unpressured teammate on D2.

Your words haven't really matched your actions in the thread, and it seems to me like you've been following Tom around a bit - somebody who has defended you multiple times, and I am very confident is scum.

dawnflower8 · April 22, 2014

That's because Tom seemed very town to me earlier. I'm starting to rethink that now because I am very confused as to why he was siding with me...he would but make any good progress from that so if was kind of pointless for him to do.

What you said about Des and Darthe it's EXACTLY why I thought they were scum..."there's no plausible reason for them to focus on attacking each other"

And HALLIA is the one with the most inconsistent reads-to-actions.

And I don't even remember why I read you as scum earlier...that has changed now. You are probably town.

[Advanced] Twilight Mafia Game over - Mafia win

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