[Advanced] Twilight Mafia Game over - Mafia win

[Niniel]

Okay, I have read the thread and taken notes. 

 

Darthe: I understand what Tommy is saying about his "tone". He is consistent and his outbursts could be from a frustrated townie. But... how hard can it be to be consistent when he just decided that I/Cory/Des are scum on d1 and then not talking about anything other than that? He is in a tunnel where he doesn´t talk about anything than that. Except for the last page when he vote/unvotes Lenlo. Now, he did hint early that he was the one that stole Des´s vote. Not sure if that would indicate being town? Actually, I think all claims have come very quick today.Darthe, you said that your role was Vindictive vote thief. What does vindictive stand for? 

 

Des: There are things that I wonder about him but I still think he is town. Things that I want to ask him is: Why did you list Verbal and Tommy as town in #510? Since you have a town read on Dawn and Clov now - who do you think is mafia instead? 

 

Dawn: Makes no sense whatsoever. Again, I must ask those of you who played with her in her first games - did she play like this as mafia? I do get a newbie town feeling but her reasons for her votes are so bad and she just dropped the ones from yesterday today. 

 

Dice: I didn´t like his Cory vote yesterday. His reason for voting Jack was because it´s "the best choice" and that he didn´t like the Des train. It´s not really a reason. Can´t remember how close to DL it was. Today he thinks Darthe is town and Des is town after his claim. But who is scum? I don´t get a good feeling from Dice. Add to that when he questioned Hallia why she voted for him even though she didn´t. Actually that exchange was strange:

H: Dice voted Cory d1. Ping!

D: Did you vote me because I voted Cory who voted Des even though he said Des was town and then jumped to another vote?

H: I didn´t vote you.

D: No, I was wrong.

Ehm... Hallia didn´t answer and Dice let it go as well. 

 

Tommy: Haven´t done much. Votes Lenlo and says Darthe, Dawn and Pral are town. Have you read the whole thread now?

 

Hallia: Haven´t said much either.  I liked the posts about Dice and Pral but I´m not sure I understand her vote on Dawn. 

 

Verbal: Doesn´t play on weekends but haven´t said much after the weekend either. Have he voted at all? 

 

Pral: I like most of his posts even though I don´t agree with his reason why Darthe wouldn´t want to kill BFG. That is just a big WIFOM. 

 

Lenlo: He voted me in #137 and after that he has not done much but saying over and over again that I´m scum. But then he unvotes me on day 2 because Des says he should??? At the same time he says that Des looks scummier. How does this match? When Des asks him he says that Darthe is horrendous but that he rather vote me, although he is not allowed. Ehm... When Des points out that he hasn´t gone after Darthe at all he suddenly votes Darthe but continue to say that he rather vote me. And then he claims without many votes on him. What in this is town? 

 

Clov: I don´t understand what he was doing on D1. Des says that he scum slipped. Clov tried to explain that if one of the votes on Des was a scum vote then it would have been Cory´s. But he never goes after Cory. Instead he votes Des himself. He also seems to stand on the side line - a comment here, a question there. At the same time I think he have made some logical posts. I have played with him before but don´t know how he played then or if he was town/mafia. I do get bad vibes here. 

 

Did I remember everyone?

[Clovdyx]

What was the benefit of holding Despot's vote, Darthe?

[Clovdyx]

 

Btw, I'm a Vig. If y'all would rather I settle this spat between Darthe and I myself instead of lynching him, trust me- I'd be MORE than happy to oblige.

 

 

Will be back with more when I'm not on the can.

I say go for it. You got someone you think is scum, then shoot him. Its what a town vig should do. You coming out and saying it though with no prodding or risk of being lynched worries me. Its an out of the blue role claim.

 

Vigs also arnt a scum only role.

 

 

This is scummy as hell.  Play so far suggests that Lenlo leans scum on Despo and town on Darthe.  Des comes out of nowhere with the claim and all of a sudden, Lenlo wants him to kill somebody that he's been backing as town most of the game?  Pretty significant change based on an impulse claim of somebody that he seemingly wouldn't be trusting.  If Des/Darthe ends up being town on town, this reads like Lenlo sees a chance to get rid of two experienced townies at once (killing Darthe, and then going back to his initial scumread on Des, with the added benefit of "he literally killed town by himself").

 

I know he asked for them eventually but Des said he came in asking for them, which isnt true. He first asked for cases.

 

I'm the Semantic Fairy, I approve this argument.

 

is it bad that when people say im a vig i start to twitch and auto reach for the vote button?  I am SOOO sick of vig claims!

 

You don't believe his claim then?  Or is this an irrelevant question?

 

Up to this point, it doesn't seem like you've done much, and I don't like the way you disappeared after questioning Hallia.  You said she voted for you after your stance on Cory, she points out that she didn't vote for you.  Then you seemingly disappeared with your next post being a half-hearted discrediting of a roleclaim.  What's your solid stance on Des, and what others do you  have?

 

 

Tina isn't guaranteed to be town because a bunch of people see her as town Lenlo. She is just a horrible lynch candidate because of it. More importantly, the scummiest person in the game atm, Darthe, has been promoting a me/Tina/Cory scum group for a while now. Scum didn't expect Cory to die, so Darthe thought he could get more mislynches out of it. Lynching Tina today plays into his hands.

 

And speaking of which, continue not mentioning or responding to mentions of Darthe. It amuses me.

 

 

She is a horrible lynch candidate because certain people think (thought, in Cory's case) she's town?  Okay, so take everybody that abstained from voting Jack.  They probably thought he was town, or they would have joined your CFD.  Did that mean he was a terrible lynch candidate?

 

 

No, and that's just terrible reasoning. This is a hammer game. Who knows who else might have voted Jack if it was a diff format or something? And someone can not be voting someone yet still not think they're town, they might just have a higher scum candidate. Again, the reasoning you use here is straight up awful.

 

From what I remember, Jack only had 1-2 people saying he was town. Darthe was one, and iirc you might have said he seemed town as well. There was definitely NOT a general consensus among others that Jack was town, not like the thing with Tina.

 

 

 

It won't work. My point is that your logic isnt panning out so far des and you seem pretty driven to ignoring that. I have been watching the voting patterns this game and so far you come up lacking.

 

What do you feel about Tina?

 

How do I come up lacking? Because I've been confident enough to move my vote around? There's no way you can know whether anyone else I voted was town or not, so your whole "watching the voting patterns" thing is weak as hell.

 

And *facepalm* @ last bit. There should literally be no reason for you to ask this question.

 

 

Bold seems like another thing that you would be pushing as a slip if it were anybody else.  Think about it - he's apparently your #1 scum suspect this game.  If you're so confident, why WOULDN'T he know if the people you've voted are town or not? 

 

If you're as confident that he's scum as your continuous argument suggests, I don't understand why you're not working the angle of him using your votes against you here as to signify him being mafia.  You wouldn't say that he wouldn't know who's town.  You'd say he knows EXACTLY who town is, unlike you, and that's how he can be so assured your votes have been towards other townies.

 

 

Lol that's exactly what my argument is implying. As town, he wouldn't have any way of knowing whether or not people I was voting are town. I was implying a TMI situation with Darthe, that's exactly where my arguments were leading.

 

 

Red - Just highlighting so I can go back and do a count.  I don't seem to remember a significant difference in the number of people that were arguing Tina was town vs. Jack, but I'll go back and recount.  I know you and Cory were the hard stances, but maybe there were some softer stances I'm overlooking. 

 

As for the bottom, I didn't pick up that's what you were implying, but even after reading...eh, I still don't get that concretely.  "There's no way you can know whether anyone else I voted was town or not" - makes it seem like he doesn't know, rather than (as a townie) he wouldn't know.

 

Well, that really depends on the situation.  You're threatening my life.

 

I have your vote.  

 

Seems like I would be pretty interested.  Pray you don't make it to L-1 though.  You might just turn that gun on yourself.

Ok this? Wow. Thats scummy as hell. "I have your vote". "Threatening your life"? town generally dont resort to threats or exclamations like that, they tend to try and reason out of it or show someone is a better lynch target. This right here? Looks like scum taunting imo.

 

Strange reasoning right here. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you voted Darthe, I just want to be able to follow your reasoning. Wasn't I just threatening Darthe? Why fos Darthe for threatening me, but not me for threatening him?

 

Scared of the guy with the gun?

 

 

 

This very well could be the first thing you've said this game I completely agree with. 

[Clovdyx]

Words about Jack:

 

-Verbal: My gut says he's town (came after hammervote)
-Dawn: I don't have any good reason for voting him, though. Give me a reason and then I might.
-Lenlo: we don't have time for a Tina lynch so I'm going Jack to consolidate, but come D2 I'm pushing your lynch
-Pralaya: I had a null read on Jack. Did not find his response post to Tina overly scummy as others saw but his later posts have been a bit emotional than logical, laughing off and acting frustrated etc. His claim is irrelevant since it is an open role which could be either town or scum and I don't want to have my read on him based on it.
-Cory: I'm down to clown

Unvote

Vote Jack
-BFG: vote Jack

Des's posts have seemed pro town since the vote on Csarmi

-Dice:

i dont really like the des train. I think jack is the best choice atm.

 

6 of 13 people (not including Jack, because I think it's safe to say he thought he was town) didn't vote for Jack, so he has that on his side.  When you look at those comments, it doesn't seem like THAT many people had strong convictions he was going to be scum, either.  At least four votes look like they were just willing to take a lynch (Pral, Lenlo, Dice, and BFG).

[Clovdyx]

Words about Tina (omitting you and Cory because it's well known how you two felt, omitting Lenlo because also well know):

 

-Darth: I also think that Tina is more likely to be town than you two by a considerable margin.

-Jack: Tina is where the votes should be IMO.

-BFG: See this as pro-Town ((Note: this is in regards to Tina's vote on Jack, later explains how she felt it was obvious Tina was trying to get the game going))

-Dice: i read Tina as trying to kickstart things with her jack vote and am leaning town on her

-Dawn: Since 3 seems to be the usual number of scum in a game, I'm guessing that the 3 scum are you, Tina, and Clov.

 

Again, let the record state that there was A TON of Tina being town talk, like you insinuated...from you and Cory.  But again, a lot of her being scum talk from Lenlo.  In conclusion, where you get there was a strong consensus about her alignment, I have no idea.

[Darthe]

Tinas town play doesn't match this but I agree she isn't mafia telling.  My biggest issue with her is that she is part of that group of three from the start of the game and that I haven't seen any town tells from her.  

 

She has been mafia perhaps four times in the past two years.  The only thing I know for sure about her mafia meta is that she is safe as hell, like Switzerland level safe, when she is mafia.  Town Tina is willing to stick her neck out for her beliefs.

[Verbal32]

Tinas town play doesn't match this but I agree she isn't mafia telling.  My biggest issue with her is that she is part of that group of three from the start of the game and that I haven't seen any town tells from her.  

 

She has been mafia perhaps four times in the past two years.  The only thing I know for sure about her mafia meta is that she is safe as hell, like Switzerland level safe, when she is mafia.  Town Tina is willing to stick her neck out for her beliefs.

 

Town Tina also tunnels more.  She isn't displaying any of that thus far.

[Niniel]

Take a look at my post above and comment. 

 

As you say, your biggest issue with me is that I´m part of that group of three. Why can´t you let that go and take a look at all players?

[Niniel]

That was @ Darthe. 

[Verbal32]

 

I say go for it. You got someone you think is scum, then shoot him. Its what a town vig should do. You coming out and saying it though with no prodding or risk of being lynched worries me. Its an out of the blue role claim.

 

Vigs also arnt a scum only role.

 

This is scummy as hell.  Play so far suggests that Lenlo leans scum on Despo and town on Darthe.  Des comes out of nowhere with the claim and all of a sudden, Lenlo wants him to kill somebody that he's been backing as town most of the game?  Pretty significant change based on an impulse claim of somebody that he seemingly wouldn't be trusting.  If Des/Darthe ends up being town on town, this reads like Lenlo sees a chance to get rid of two experienced townies at once (killing Darthe, and then going back to his initial scumread on Des, with the added benefit of "he literally killed town by himself").

 

^ This.  Makes me think both Darthe & Des are town, and Lenlo is scum.

 

VC?

[Clovdyx]

 

 

I say go for it. You got someone you think is scum, then shoot him. Its what a town vig should do. You coming out and saying it though with no prodding or risk of being lynched worries me. Its an out of the blue role claim.

 

Vigs also arnt a scum only role.

 

This is scummy as hell.  Play so far suggests that Lenlo leans scum on Despo and town on Darthe.  Des comes out of nowhere with the claim and all of a sudden, Lenlo wants him to kill somebody that he's been backing as town most of the game?  Pretty significant change based on an impulse claim of somebody that he seemingly wouldn't be trusting.  If Des/Darthe ends up being town on town, this reads like Lenlo sees a chance to get rid of two experienced townies at once (killing Darthe, and then going back to his initial scumread on Des, with the added benefit of "he literally killed town by himself").

 

^ This.  Makes me think both Darthe & Des are town, and Lenlo is scum.

 

VC?

 

 

Vote Count?

[Verbal32]

Yes.  I know Leelou is around, and there has been a lot of bold in posts.....I'm not sure if the VC is different.  I'd like to take a peek and try and figure out if we'll get a lynch before the normal deadline, or if we need the weekend.

[Leelou]

Vote Count
 

Lenlo (2) - Pral, Tommy
Darthe (2) - Dawn, Lenlo

Des (1) -  Clov

Dawn (1) - Hallia
 
not voting - Tina, Des, Dice, Verbal, Darthe
 
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch
 
Deadline Saturday Noon EST (willing to move to Friday or Monday due to the holiday) 

[Darthe]

Take a look at my post above and comment. 

 

As you say, your biggest issue with me is that I´m part of that group of three. Why can´t you let that go and take a look at all players?

 

Well, in the technical world we call it a lead.

 

Tell ya what.  Des has a vote today that he isn't too keen on using.  Why don't you tell me where I should put it?

[Verbal32]

Asking "where I should put it" is generating a response from me that would result in a self-ban.  I'm not even sure I can do that, so I'm amused.

[Darthe]

Are we seriously not doing phrasing anymore?

[Niniel]

Bad Verbal! If you don´t want me to tunnel you then start giving some reads.

 

Darthe - here is my list:

 

Would love to lynch: Lenlo, Dice

 

Could lynch: Darthe

 

Would not lynch: Tina, Pral, Des, Dawn

 

 

I like the latest post from Clov, can´t decide on him. Verbal, Tommy and Hallia are just floating. 

[Niniel]

Vote Lenlo

[Leelou]

Vote Count
 

Lenlo (3) - Pral, Tommy, Tina
Darthe (2) - Dawn, Lenlo

Des (1) -  Clov

Dawn (1) - Hallia
 
not voting - Des, Dice, Verbal, Darthe
 
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch
 
Deadline Saturday Noon EST (willing to move to Friday or Monday due to the holiday) 

[Darthe]

Des is really starting to want to vote Tina.

 

Or Des.

 

Btw, still plan to NK me Des?

[Niniel]

I asked you a question before - what does vindictive vote thief mean?

[Clovdyx]

What was the benefit of holding Despot's vote, Darthe?

 

Des is really starting to want to vote Tina.

 

Or Des.

 

Btw, still plan to NK me Des?

 

.

 

Also, can you explain phrasing?

[Darthe]

I want to let Tommy explain it as is appropriate.  Just know it isn't important to the game.

 

And yes, I ignored your question Tina because I am not yet interested in answering.

[Darthe]

Holding the vote of Des?

 

I think he is scum, or at least thought it (I'm sort of on the fence in comparison due to the claim.  Still leaning though).  Why wouldn't I take that vote>

[Niniel]

Darthe - what are your reads? I mean of all players, not just me and Des.