[Basic] Blood Moon Mafia - Game Over.

[peacesells]

I think Tommy is voting Cloud atm.

[Andrej]

Ah crap, I see it now.

 

Thanks.

[Andrej]

Vote Count 2.8

 

Csarmi (1) - Peace

Cloud (2) - Despo, Tommy

Alanna (1) - Csarmi

 

Not Voting: Vos, Alanna, Cloud

 

4 to lynch. DL is Tuesday.

[hazelkrs1]

Cloud voting Cloud? Sweet

 

[Andrej]

Bah, I suck

 

Cut me some slack ppl.

[_CLOUD]

Calm down Tommy, I Jailed you last night. Was hoping you'd notice the " " smiley and recognize it as my "poker face", a hint to you that I was bluffing.

 

Wanted to test your reaction to make sure you didn't guess that I had Jailed you, and to see how others reacted, if there were any quick bandwagon votes or something, and alternatively see if peeps sat on the sideline to let two townies fight eachother. Will be back in a mo.

 

Unvote.

It was a smart move, but it also could have gotten you easily killed while you were asleep. I for one had no clue why Peace waited so long to move his vote to you in the first place after Tom was un-cc’d by everyone and you weren’t. Oh well, some frustrating moments aside I guess it all worked out well in the end.

 

Ok so I will now respond to Despo’s case on me. I have skimmed over all of Alana’s posts until now because she forgot to include a TLDR section but I will come back to those after I’m done with this.

 

 

Don't think he's been making sense, and more importantly he could have just been scum distancing from me (in the scenario you described where I was scum).

Lol I haven’t been making any sense? Let me remind you that I ended up being right about Tommy, while you had him pegged as “obvscum” on Day 1. I’m probably right about Peace too who you now also have a town read on, so please don’t try to paint me as a fool.

 

Cloud's response came right after Peace's- if anything it looks like this could have been scum Cloud kinda half-whining about the setup cause he felt his team was outmatched

No, I wasn’t whining about the setup of the game. That post was me agreeing with Peace’s idea about the JK claiming if Tom was speaking the truth about his Tracker claim. This game does favor the town because it can easily be broken by following Peace's strategy.

 

 

Cloud follows onto Tommy's reasoning A LOT this game, and followed his vote onto me today with some cheerleading crap and hasn't really had much to offer gameplay wise this whole phase, despite keeping his vote parked on me.

Dude, show me where I have been following Tommy’s reasoning this game. I probably did once or twice because I had a strong town read on him, but I so far I have always come up with my own reasons for why I think something. You are acting as I have been following him during the entire game which is a blatant misinterpretation of my entire play. I voted for you because I found you scummy, and I didn’t offer much gameplay wise this phase because there wasn’t much to offer in the first place. I thought we had caught one wolf after you started lying about not jailing Tom, and then the game changed to getting you lynched and pegging your partner. I get very easily bored if I’m not challenged in some ways which I wasn’t at that stage of the game, which resulted in me playing more lazily than I do now for example.

 

Cloud doesn't just follow Tommy's reasoning a lot btw, he also straight up buddies him with a few maneuvers lately.

You are calling me out for buddying? Really? You were sucking up to Hallia since the start of the game dude! Yes, I did mess around a little with Tom but I just find it really fun to play mafia with him, and I think we can work well together in finding scum if we both read each other as town.

 

 

Tries to keep suspicion alive on Mish and me as a scum combo. Incidentally, I did chang my mind a couple of times I also left her at L-1 for quite a while. If anyone still cares I can go back and show what made me change my mind in each instance.

Unlike Tom I didn’t dismiss the possibility of you and Mish being mafia together based on your earlier interaction. Mafia are very likely to distance from each other at the start of the game, and Mish was playing scummy enough for you to vote for her if you were teammates. You were the second player to place a vote on her, and after she defending herself (which I think she didn't do well) you immediately unvoted from her without explaining what made you change your mind. A couple of pages later she again said something scummy, and then you moved your vote back to her only to unvote once more without giving any sort of explanation. At first I thought that your constant vote switching was a sign that you were town because you wouldn’t put yourself out there like that as mafia, but then I thought that you could be teammates and it was just a way to distance from her without putting her in any serious danger of being lynched.

 

And yes I would appreciate it if you would go back for a moment and explain what made you change your mind about her play.

 

 

Mostly fluff, followed by some of Cloud's only gameplay this phase. Logic is terribad here, he clears Tommy as town because he hasn't been CC'ed, but says I'm scum even tho I haven't been CC'ed either. Plus, doesn't open himself up to the possibility of a town gambit or anything like that here, just pretty much buddies Tom some moar.

 

I responded to your gameplay accusation above.

 

My logic wasn’t faulty. There was a huge difference between the way you and Tom have both been un-cc’d. Tom was un-cc’d by everyone, while you had only been un-cc’d by the ones that were active during the time that you claimed JK which were Tom, Peace, Vos and me. I thought the real JK was hiding amongst the rest of the players who haven't yet checked in at the time.

 

You are right though that I didn’t think about the possibility of a town gambit, but that also doesn’t disprove my argument why Tom was town. I didn’t think that anyone here would make such a move like lying about the person they jailed.

 

Copies Tommy's "FROZEN" thing, moar buddying

Ok, so first of all this wasn’t the first time that I heard about the term FROZEN. Darthe has used it repeatedly in the past few games where we played in together. And secondly how the eff do you even consider this to be buddying? It’s just a fun little comment. If you want to see an example of buddying go read back your entire interaction with Hallia this game you hypocrite.

 

And copies Tommy's style of posting a lot of gifs (there was another sub-zero one I didn't fetch). Never really seen Cloud post that many gifs.

Dude, Tommy isn’t the only one in this game who uses gifs. You and Golden have also started using them quite a bit revently. How are all these things even an indicator of my alligment? I swear if you weren’t confirmed town I would have started pushing for your lynch again after reading this case.

 

 

He's trying to be Tommy's Top Tier Buddy. Day 1 he sideline sniped a lot and wasn't as active as he normally is, Day 2 he sideline sniped a bit and didn't really add much at all to the convo yet kept his vote on a claimed PR who hasn't been CC'ed yet either. And sideline sniping is what scum would most likely be doing if there is a bunch of town on town violence going on, so yeahhhhh Cloud looks like definite scum to me.

Tommy and I wreck games we are both town in. You are just grumpy because you were almost lynched a few times I have already explained why I wasn’t able to be as active as I normally am, and while I never lie about my RL in game I know that you don’t have to believe me but at least do me a favor and stop bringing that argument up so often. It’s a weak reason to suspect someone of being mafia anyway. Sideline sniping is when you are active and only poke at people without putting yourself out there, and while my play can be considered in this way during Day 2 it certainly couldn't for Day 1. When I was online during Day 1 I did my best to explain my reads and ad nauseam, and present quality cases.

 

So yeah congrats on writing another flawed case for why I’m obvious scum this game. I have to say that I do enjoy going head to head against you like this. I hope that next time you will come up with something better though, because this was just too easy.

 

 

[_CLOUD]

And that was only Despo's case >.> I need to catch up on the rest and I still read Alanna's stream of consciousness. Let me grab something to eat first, because I think this is going to take me a while.

[Alanna]

Sorry cloud, I would point you to the post where I have thoughts on you but the mobile site doesn't show post numbers. I think my last couple of long posts mentioned you, if that helps.

[Tommyrod]

Unvote Cloud

Gonna step away for a bit 

[_CLOUD]

Good morning. Back to the re-read.

 

Des: I'm honestly not sure about anything yet, but it was helpful to see Cloud's posts lined up. Reading through I had him for much less active. That is a ping in itself, but alone one that leaves alot of other options. But even though I haven't pegged everyones meta yet, this is not normal Cloud-standard, and smells fishy. I also got very suprised that he would come out and blatantly pegg me for a scum because I was (and said out loud) re-reading, when just being replaced in. Seeing the "red lines" in his gameplay does ping alot. Not enough for me to vote yet, as I want to finnish my re-read (obviously) but yeah - you make a lot of sense there sir.

We have never played in a game before and yet you are using meta as a basis for your reads on me? I know that you probably read a game or two where I also happened to play in, but still agreeing with Despo about this seems weird to me.

Also, I didn’t peg you as scum because you were re-reading. I knew that you were reading the most recent pages because you kept arguing with Peace for why asking for a replacement isn’t alignment indicative (which I agree with), and yet you didn’t say anything about you having a role or not while the whole game around that time was centered around trying to clear the Tracker and Jailkeeper. I only later remembered that Mish claimed to have no role at the start of the game.

It was obvious that you needed some time to read the thread and gather your reads, and I think I even said that we shouldn’t push for your lynch during Day 2 because of it.

[nervositee]

Vos is Despo's teammate. I'm calling it now. He has yet to claim or deny to have any PR but he has been reading the thread. Vos is FROZEN!

 

[...]

 

Also, I didn’t peg you as scum because you were re-reading. I knew that you were reading the most recent pages because you kept arguing with Peace for why asking for a replacement isn’t alignment indicative (which I agree with), and yet you didn’t say anything about you having a role or not while the whole game around that time was centered around trying to clear the Tracker and Jailkeeper. I only later remembered that Mish claimed to have no role at the start of the game.

It was obvious that you needed some time to read the thread and gather your reads, and I think I even said that we shouldn’t push for your lynch during Day 2 because of it.

 

 

 

...right

[_CLOUD]

 

Actually, if it was Mish, I doubt Despot would leave his vote on her when she was at L-1. Hmmm...

 

Could it be Peace? I'll have to look back, but it seems less likely.

 

Despo did vote for Mish twice, but he was also quick with his unvotes and in both instances never explained what made him change his mind about her.

 

 

 

Anyway I want to see what Vos has to say before we continue down this path.

I only said that I thought you and Despo were mafia together. I didn't vote for you or push for your lynch :P

[_CLOUD]

 

Some quick thought from the train.

 

Peace looks very much townie to me.

I doubt we'll see a counterclaim for the roles.

 

Seeing the Mish train on D1, Mish/Cloud can't be scum/scum. Cause, y'know, Cloud wouldn't leaf a pointless lynch on his teammate.

 

That means Alanna is scum which kind of fits for me anyway.

 

From Mish/Cloud I'd say Cloud is more likely to be the scumz but I'd need to revisit the Cloud;Alanna and Mish/Alana interactions for that and I can't do it now.

 

vote Alanna

Honestly, in my eyes, this practically confirms CScumarlami and Cloud as the wolf team. This is one of the weakest attempts at a "scumhunting" post Ive ever seen from CS. He's going through the motions, trying to justify a vote on someone else that looks sketchy, but his reasoning is essentially "I'm not scum so Alanna must be". CS is way too smart to think that kind of reasoning would be worth even typing if he was town, as no one else knows he's town so his "evidence" is completely subjective.

 

 

Lol whut? I agree with you that that post from Csarmi was bad, and he has only tried to go with the flow the entire game so far, but linking me to him based on this alone is out right ridiculous. 

 

 

You and Tom are confirmed town for me. I didn't like Peace's fence sitting during Day 1, but as I already explained his vote on Hallia changed my mind about him being scum. I think he has made a lot of solid calls during Day 2 and him delaying your lynch while you were lying was also a pro-town move. If Peace was mafia he could have so easily justified putting you at L-1 and pushed someone else to vote for you too, but he didn't. 

 

This leaves Salami, Alanna and Vos. Alanna's play has given me town vibes since the start of the game. She isn't afraid to go against the flow, and her reads so far seem organic. I didn't like Mish play from the start of Day 1 (I mean she argued that I was mafia with Hallia and her only reasoning was claiming that I was parotting you), and I also think that Salami is scummy. He has tried his best to remain very low-key which is something I don't associate with his town meta at all. He is player who isn't afraid to state his often contradictionary opinion and fight for it even if it ends up getting him lynched.

 

So yeah I still have to read three pages but right now I WTL Salami and Vos.

[Tommyrod]

[_CLOUD]

Wtl Cloud or CSarmi. Sad that Tommy never picked up on the fact that Cloud was buddying him so much- apparently all you have to do as scum is buddy him and he'll never suspect you

 

Like never which means you're all scum 

 

 

epic.

[peacesells]

Cloud..let's see that vote on Csarmi.

[nervositee]

I DID IT! I GOT THROUGH! I EVEN RID MYSELF OF ALL SUICIDAL THOUGHTS MIDWAY AND KEPT ON PUSHING! AND I FINNISHED!

 

*inhale*

 

I'm gonna have a cigarette, edit my post, then you will finally have my reads, sorry it's taken so long. 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, if it was Mish, I doubt Despot would leave his vote on her when she was at L-1. Hmmm...
 
Could it be Peace? I'll have to look back, but it seems less likely.

 
Despo did vote for Mish twice, but he was also quick with his unvotes and in both instances never explained what made him change his mind about her.

 

 
 

Anyway I want to see what Vos has to say before we continue down this path.

I only said that I thought you and Despo were mafia together. I didn't vote for you or push for your lynch :P

 

 

 

[_CLOUD]

From my PoV Alanna must be scum. I'm sure you can translate that to your PoV.

 

Please explain what you find scummy about Alanna.

 

Unvote Salami

 

Vote Cloud

 

Get @ me my friend

 

I am conf'town so I can do whatever I want

 

Brah, do you even lift?

 

 

That was for Peace.

 

Despo: you can call me both and you gonna be right.

 

You can also call me scum and you gonna be wrong.

 

Orly?

 

IMO the biggest argument for Cloud being scum is two things:

 

1. Him saying I'm playing awesome and supporting me pretty strongly when I'm wrong

 

2. Him saying that the scumteam is Despot and Mish

 

If he had really been making serious analysis of the thread it's almost impossible that Despot and Mish could be the scumteam 

 

I know I said something derpy like that myself but I think he followed me onto it despite it being nonsensical

 

So that's pretty damning for him

  

 

1. But your play is awesome :D But seriously lol it isn't as if I knew Golden would flip town, and now you are saying that I have been scummy because I didn't knew that you were wrong. I could have only know for certain that you were wrong if I were mafia. It's a logical fallacy. 

 

2. I disagree that Despo and Mish couldn't have been teammates. His quick votes and unvotes could easily have been a distancing move. 

 

 

 

Why do you find the Despo/Mish as scum argument invalid, Tommy?

 

Because Despot was pushing only me and Mish on D1 and he put Mish at L-1 for a large chunk of time

 

I don't see that kind of bussing happening when there's only 2 wolves in the game

 

 

Bingo! It would be a way too dangerous move to make.

 

 

I think Cloud is scum. There is a big chance salami is too. When salami writes, he strikes me as town, but when I step back and look at the wider picture he seems suspicious. 

 

On the other hand, he seems too much devil-may-care, and I just lost a game for lynching a devil-may-care townie, so I'm a bit careful right there ;)

Your scum read on me comes from reading my meta while we haven't played even once together, and you don't seem sure of Salami being anything at this stage of the game which is very wolfie and not to mention your total lack of reasoning behind your read on him in the first place. I mean you aren't even trying, and it's obvious that you don't want to vote for him but also are afraid to lose the opportunity to bus him. Obvscum right here people.

 

 

 

 

Cloud..let's see that vote on Csarmi.

 

 

Vote Salami

 

CHAPOW!

[_CLOUD]

I DID IT! I GOT THROUGH! I EVEN RID MYSELF OF ALL SUICIDAL THOUGHTS MIDWAY AND KEPT ON PUSHING! AND I FINNISHED!

 

Too bad you are going to get lynched tomorrow

[Andrej]

Vote Count 2.9

 

Csarmi (2) - Peace, Cloud

Cloud (1) - Despo

Alanna (1) - Csarmi

 

Not Voting: Vos, Alanna, Tommy

 

4 to lynch. DL is Tuesday.

 

Your GIFs amuse me, proceed.

[_CLOUD]

 

Come at me, scum!

 

 

And Despo

[Tommyrod]

I would like to see Vos and Alanna put their votes in before I do anything

[hazelkrs1]

Will need a lot moar time to respond to Cloud's posts, but for now the prudent move would be to Unvote, Vote Cscumarlami. I could be wrong about Cloud and in the meantime the common scum read between us is CSarmi, someone who many seem to agree looks scummy.

 

This is not me saying Cloud looks town now btw, his responses to my case were full of holes. But at the same time, Vos is someone I'm still unsure of, and although he was apparently still reading through the thread, he still had time to bandwagon onto my fos of Cloud. Makes me more suspicious of hom, slightly less so of Cloud. Right now Csarmis is in the lead on the scum race, Cloud is behind but Vos might be catching up. Alanna is trailing behind a bit

[nervositee]

Ok. All thoughts, from the start:

 

(disclaimer: I'm writing this as I read. I'll try to edit it out afterwards, but if something seems contradictory it's because things have changes while I read, not that I'm thinking both)

 

1. Peace - Came in late and short because of RL. Fair enough.

 

That was everything I had written down after doing the entire re-read. He doesn't stick out in any way. Like Tommy pointed out, very clean. BUT looking back he is level-headed, rational, makes well-weighed statements and comes across as the Town Elder (no offence, haha). Leaning Town!

2. Tommy - Very wary of being meta-read early on. Runs back and forth prodding here and there early on but lacking real convictions behind it. Then goes on to hardcore protect Mish. I'll hold onto this to see how it plays out. Might be a scum-town buddy-linking move, but for now it seems like pro-town playing to avoid a hasty town mislynch. What I am wary of though is how he is playing out more like a "gamekeeper" than a scumhunter. It's important to ask questions, sure, but at times it reads more like a desperate move to control where attention is put. Maybe trying to hide some truths and enhance some speculations? Gets alot of heat for it, and makes a good point about being pestered about it, while not gaining any answers, so I do understand the frustration. His back-and-forth banter with Golden actually reads to me like frustrating town-town-banter rather than something a scum would throw himself into that early. Especially now that Golden flipped town. I am however wary of him because as he said, DM deals with long term bonds, he is a day broker, so no matter his alignment, his play will throw people off. If you dart around that quickly it's easier to hide your intentions. He does make a lot of sense everywhere, but I'm still wary. When it does start to slip is when he claims and gets really cocky claiming he "solved the game" etc. I get the self-assurance, but trying this hard to take complete control over how town should act certainly doesn't sit too well. 

 

Claims tracker uncontested, so no reason to doubt this at this point. Town read.

3. Goldeneyes
4. Hallia (mentored by Leelou)

5. Csarmi - Hard to read, as its mainly short sentences and not complete cases or arguments. Might be trying to lie low in the terrain, but when the game picks up (p.16 →) he seems to be actively scumhunting and doing his job for town. Wary that when I'm at page 24, I have big blocks of text on all the other players but not him. Either he is really trying to keep his head down or just beeing lazy/busy/something. The thing is that when he posts it doesn't ping me as scum at all, but the fact that they are so rare and short does. Looking closely he leans town, but stepping back and looking at what he has done for Town, he leans scum. Also wary of his "Ah, fudge this"-mentality, because last game I was in I took that for scum arrogance, which lead to a mislynch and loss. I'll settle for null leaning scum.

6. Cloud - Comes in very seriously scumhunting. While acting on some thin leads he seems genuinely interested in discovering more about the things he finds off, and also points out some things that hasn't been discussed too much. Falls off the radar again, and when he comes back he seems much more interested in looking like he is writing long posts and looking pro-town than actively scumhunting. Also makes some gross assumptions to support his theories (like that if Mish had a PR, and didn't claim at L-1 then the hammer would HAVE to be scum. Its very possible but still.) Being very fond of criticizing others play as wish-washy (or whatever) while certainly being guilty of that himself. Trying to link Mish and Golden as scumteam, and defending the ridiculousness of that with a "oh, right, I forgot".  Then carries on making assumptions to support definite statements, like when he cleares Peace as town, with a rational that builds upon a previous assumption (that Tom is town). Certainly building up a case, but puts it forward in a too sure way, seeming more interested in swaying town to thinking this and this than to put forward evidence. Unsure if there is a motivation (buddying up to town Peace, clearing his scum-mate), trying too hard to look like a valuable town or just lazy play. But not good. Defending Tom for his claim, which would have been a stupid claim if he had been scum. Maybe clever, maybe providing WIFOM-defence for a scum tactic. Makes some long posts where he does his utmost at seeming townish, but without much substance.

 

Generally, Clouds game here is "all style over substance". Especially now where he thinks he found someone to go after, he goes all hyper-Cloud, all over the place, claiming I'm "frozen" when I have stated I'm doing a re-read, which when confronted with he does a poor job squirming out of. Then goes back to being overly-confident hyper-omgz-Cloud. 

 

[Not directly in my re-read, but concerning my read and case on Cloud. Re: Cloud trying to make a big deal out of me meta-framing him. First of all, I said something didn't add up, not that you were scum for meta-reasons. Secondly, no we haven't played together. But I have both seen and heard you are a really good player. You are not this game, so yes - fishy. Not conclusive. Fishy!]

7. Alanna - Seems reasonable and levelheaded. When everyone else is busy shouting about Des' failing to read the set-up, she asked straight out "why would you pretend if you were scum?". Being rational and calm when the chairs have started flying is a definite town-tell so far. Kinda sidelines herself when Tommy starts 'dominating'. I don't really know if its true meta or an excuse to stay low, but I registered it pinged some players who have played with her before. When she gets back she picks up a good game and her posts reads like 100% pro-town. A bit on the cautious side, but it still reads more like strategy than keeping her head down. Still don't like that she comes and distances herself from both trains like that though. Now, further into the game it gets interesting. She starts off defending her stance on Tommy, which I too find a bit odd. Then she comes with the sentence "I've participated as much as I've wanted/intended to." which for some reason screams town to me. Her entire play has been good, but she has also played it very safe and kept herself in a safe and flexible spot. If she is scum she is playing a very good game. But I'm still landing on null leaning town. 

8. Mish - 
 

13. Despo - Some seriously creepy buddying with Hallia (now confirmed town) early on. Latching on? Seems to be reaching for thin straws trying to get to Mish while carrying on buddying/defending Hallia. All cloaked in the usual overly-self-confident flow of text. Carries on trolling gifs for a bit. Is all over the place, going back and forth, sometimes making sense and sometimes not. Coming back again later with a huge wall of text, again super-defending Hallia, mostly meta. Going on and on. And on. Way beyond anything normal. After the D1 lynch Des goes all... Des after Tommy. Extra suspicious is when he "checks the timestamp" and make a huge deal out of the fact that Tommy claimed an hour before deadline, when it was in fact 4. Messup or building an air-castle, making it so bombastic as to fool town into not checking? Not drawing conclusions but certainly doesn't sit right with me. 

 

Then claims JK uncontended, suddenly playing a really good game for our team. I have no reason to doubt this either at this point, but duly noted that I've maybe learned some things on your meta? 

 

 

Other: I'm struggling to find any scum-motivation for Hallias death. Sure she picked up her game and did a good job, but she neither hunted or cleared anyone enough for me to see the scum-team NK'ing her N1. Anyone has any more theories on that? Or is it just a random? I don't quite buy Tommys "Its for WIFOM"-comment, as it seems to have left people confused, not WIFOM'd. 

[peacesells]

Despo and Tommy.  You two need to coordinate your night actions.

 

1. Peace
6. Cloud
7. Alanna
8. Mish Nervositee

 

If Csarmi gets lynched.  One of you pick from 1 and 6, the other pick from 7 and 8 without telling us who you specifically picked.

 

Or something that so there can be a bit of wifom involved.