[Basic] Blood Moon Mafia - Game Over.

[Andrej]

My failed attempt to start a new page so the VC is at the top. Should work this time, I didn't count to make sure there were 19 posts first.

 

Vote Count 1.13

 

Mish (2) - Cloud, Hallia

Hallia (1) - Mish

Goldeneyes (2) - Csarmi, Tommy

Tommy (2) - GE, Despo

 

Not Voting: Peace, Alanna

 

5 to lynch. Just under 23 hours until Nightfall.

[hazelkrs1]

Alright I'll be nice and spoiler it for yall- please don't skip or skim it tho. I'll know cause my elves will tell me and then I'll have them leave poops in your socks.

 

 

 

1. Please tell me about Allana and her typical play style. Do you think she is someone to keep an eye on in this game, or have you put her aside for a while?

2. Do you know if Peace said he would be gone for a few days?

3. What is it you don't like about Salami? He's too quiet?

4. P.S. I have been thinking about your scum meta, and though we seem to be in disagreement so far, my scum read on you may be misplaced this early on. If you are able to maintain this level of ferocity throughout the game, you will be less suspicious to me. If your activity falls off hard, I may be skeptical. I hope you think your arguments through a little bit more though, as the eagerness to attack on what I felt were flimsy reasons is what threw me for a loop in the first place.

 

1. Firstly, she hasn't played in quite a while before replacing into a recent game. And she's slightly before my time- I played with her a fair amount back in the day, but from what I understand her "glory days" were before me. I know she's generally pretty level headed, and killer at endgame. Don't have much to offer you as far as how her town and scum metas differ. As for this game, I had a substantial town read on her initially, however I'm worried that she's overplaying how bothered she is with aggressive playstyles in this game (I remember her being almost as aggressive at times back in the day) to use it as an excuse to keep from participating as much, so that town read has gone done somewhat.

 

2. No, but I do faintly remember him having a LOA period coming up, going on a mini vacay or something.

 

3. My early vote on Salami was based off a premature meta read (one that I still find to be valid btw, but it obv wasn't much to go on at the time). I assume that you might be referencing my posts talking about trolling him however- that doesn't have anything to do with this game. But yes, I am perturbed with him.

 

4. Nice backtrack. I also like how you set the foundation to come back to pursuing my lynch down the road- if I don't stay "ferocious" enough for you.

 

Hallia's Mish vote pinged me and she's been precariously off topic since then, yet nobody is taking her to task for that. Why?

When I look at them all together, I see a very flat attempt at scumhunting, at best.

The Despot vote, for one. If she is genuinely concerned with Despot's alignment, would she not question his motives? Interact with him in any way at all?

She then jumps to Des because his response was... null? And because she thinks Mish is scummier now for "gut" reasons. I think the lie detector trap idea is ludicrous. I am town and it caught my attention. How you would know that only scum would make that a talking point is absurd.

The "no one hammered" line is only good if we know the wagon has no scum in it. One or both of the wolves could have been; we don't know yet. I say this is bad logic.

She then more or less exits from the arena.

There's a lot of misinformed logic at play in her reasoning... and what I see as underdeveloped and opportunistic voting. I don't know her well enough to say this couldn't be her (lousy) town game, so I would like all other players to comment on her post history.

Meanwhile, I am sufficiently suspicious to apply pressure where I think pressure is due.

Looking forward to the subsequent discussion.

 

 

Alright since you're so eager for discussion about Hallia, here goes:

 

Hallia is known for being somewhat of a coaster/lurker. She's not a bad player at all, as I've said before, she has great instincts (she often figures out who the scum are before a lot of others) and she's great at staying under the radar as scum. Thing is tho, she is somewhat timid when it comes to actual "scumhunting". She'll pretty much never pressure someone a ton for reactions, will ask questions but won't really interrogate someone, and goes offtopic a lot. She plays mafia very light-heartedly I think, I don't think she looks at it quite as seriously as I or others do. She's just trying to have fun most the time.

 

So yeah, you could quote grab all of her posts in pretty much any game, and you won't see much of a strong attempt at scumhunting. She tends to rely on two things somewhat when playing as town- following her gut and following others she thinks seem trustworthy.

 

She also seems to have a little bit of difficulty articulating her suspicions at times- partially because she relies on her gut. I think she's trying to work on this, to be more vocal, and frankly I think she's leetsauce this game. But I think because she isn't used to articulating her suspicions, she might be trying to use things that she's heard others say before without really seeing if it pertains to the current situation or not. I think this could explain why you saw some gaps in her logic.

 

For instance, the thing about Mish sitting at L-1 for a bit. She's prob seen this argument referenced in a lot of games, so threw it out there because she thought it was relevant, without considering the wifom behind it or the fact that that argument is most often used at endgame or at least later in the game. As for her voting record, I don't think it's opportunistic really, I think it's more indicative of her trying to assert herself more. Normally she's very cautious with her vote, but after I and others have kinda pressured her about this in the past, I think she's trying to change that. Again, I find this admirable, and I am disheartened that you are actually discouraging her this game when it seems to me she's putting a conscious effort in trying to adapt her playstyle a bit to be more effective. Looks to me like she's following her gut with her vote, and wasn't as concerned with how the trains were, which actually seems more townie to me. Hallia as scum prob wouldn't have put Mish to L-1 imo, as that would have seemed to stand out too much to her. Hallia as town trying to improve her play could have voted Mish to continue following her instincts. I got no problem with either of her votes so far.

 

I got more to say on this btw, but it will come later.

 

Yeah, I'm not a good player, but im working on it.

 

 

This made me really sad to see Hallia. You ARE a good player. You make a great scumbuddy (I've won 3 times with you, and seen you win as scum numerous other times), and your instincts are quite good. The only thing is- and the reason I've given you such a hard time in the past- your playstyle wasn't really that effective as town. Your instincts were good, but because you wouldn't be vocal enough, other players wouldn't really trust you enough to follow them. And towards endgame, when town needs to clear other townies as much as possible to avoid mislynching, you often kind of became an easy target for scum to push as a lynch because you really didn't contribute enough gameplay throughout the game.

 

So I don't think you were a bad player that needed to improve drastically, I just think you needed to vocalize your thoughts a bit more.

 

I'm surprised you had no additional commentary to make if you have been keeping up in real time.

Okay, get back to me.

 

Didn't like this post at all. Hallia posted from work saying she didn't have much time (and was prob on mobile), and you fos her for not saying more at the time? This pretty much completely confirmed for me that you are scum. Town Tommy wouldn't need to use such a tactic to strengthen his case on someone. You were using anything you could to make her look worse.

 

Golden, I cannot argue that I am similar as either alignment... the difference lies in who I am pushing. As town I push people I believe are scum. As scum I have to push people I know are town. I try to do so convincingly, and it's difficult. My warning to you not to rely on your meta knowledge of me is because I utilize similar logic and tactics and phrases as either alignment, and I will look scummy to you if you look for similar patterns. I am almost never cleared when I play as town for this reason... my scum meta follows me around like a lingering doubt. Anyway, I am glad to be town and a little out of the spotlight for once. I would like to hear your thoughts on Hallia given the commentary I just provided.

 

This is really just you saying that you're somehow immune to meta reads or something. Look- we're both similar somewhat in that we both keep our scum and town metas relatively close, and both of us can often look scummy as town. The thing is tho, there WILL still be some differences, even if they are extremely minor or something. No one is immune to meta. Granted, meta isn't all that reliable most of the time anyways, but that's why I find your responses to the whole meta thing to be so strange. I really feel like town Tommy would just tell GE he doesn't know you enough yet, or just shrug off the meta read entirely since it's unreliable anyways. Instead you seem to be too aware of how you defend yourself from the meta thing.

 

I like this new Hally so far, if that's what you're asking.

 

+1

 

 

 

How she plays it out? She just blatantly refused to acknowledge me at all.

 
She's well within her rights to do so. I am wary of "town leaders" that pop up and ask people for justifications and then make everyone comment on it. You're leading a witch-hunt on someone. I'm not willing to follow you anywhere because I believe you're scummy. Vote Mish/Tommy in 2014 people for co-leading a crusade against a player with  extremely weak reasoning. Tommy, no one needs to acknowledge you, you don't have some intrinsic game cred that compels people to answer you. 
 
THIS IS A GAMBIT TO PULL ATTENTION OFF OF MISH. DO NOT FALL FOR IT

I'm not scum. And if you're suspicious of "town leaders" -- why are you in agreement with Despot?

And I do have ample reasoning to be suspicious of Hallia. It's all there. In my posts. Just now. That you're avoiding.

 

 

Lol nice try redirecting focus to me- after you already backtracked on me as well. I tend to lead town in every game I'm in somewhat, but you're an even more vocal leader-type because you're awake during the day. I haven't been nearly as active as you this game.

 

I have a strong town read on Hally. The way she plays, the fights she fights, the style, the manner - looks good to me.

Also reading Tom as town. He seems to be trying to scumhunt for real. I like to think that a scum Tom would be less flexible in his play. Tunnel on players or agendas more.
Edging back and forth on Despo. Leaning town.
I'm reading Mish as towniesh. This is about what I'd expect from her.
No read on Peace, as he hasn't played at all.
Been wary of Alanna at all. This is basically a gut feeling. She posts rarely and the few posts she is making seem just too solid somehow.
Cloud. Cloud. He looks town. He seems to be doing what he says and saying what he does or however it should be said. He's become much more tricky lately (seen the mentoring last game :D), ehm, my biggest lead here is how he reacts when called out on why he says the "If A flips town then I know who to go after". Looks very sincere there and I think a maffia would try and twist that more.

 

I take great exception to a couple of your reads here Csarlami.

 

Bolded: whatwhatWHAT?! Tom has been tunneling Hallia pretty hardcore now for a little while. He's not really pursuing many other leads besides going back and forth with GE, he's attacking her on anything that comes up (even her saying she was at work and would respond later), and is an overeager beaver at trying to get others to focus/comment on her. And yet you think he's not tunneling??? Def makes me think a Tom/Cscumarlami scum pairing might be possible.

 

Underlined: Cloud is normally a LOT more active, that's discomforting just to begin with. And you liked his reaction to being called out for setting up lynches? I didn't think it was that good at all. He essentially tried answering it in a manner that would attract the least amount of attention, instead of turning into a protracted argument. I find this to be a lot more indicative of a scum alignment on Cloud in this case.

 

Salami, that's the kind of analysis I was waiting for. Golden couldn't have tried harder to make himself look scummy in our most recent exchange. I agree between him and Despot one of them should be scum. I'm guessing it's Golden -- almost everything he's done in his interactions with me has been ridiculous. Remember when he said I was being cute? Then he has me as lock scum with Mish as if a townie can't defend another townie? Tells me I'm scum pretending to be town leader to move people away from Mish when I'm just pointing out scummy behavior Hallia has done and he REFUSES to acknowledge any of it and acts like I'm an idiot?

It's all wayyyyyy too much. I thought I was going crazy when nobody else would comment on it.

Unvote Hallia

Vote Golden

 

PING. You wait till "someone else" (read: likely your teammate) to fos/case/vote GE, THEN you decide to vote for him, to try and give his train more momentum. Obvious much?

 

You also go back to thinking I could be scum after backtracking before, I don't like that.

 

But funniest part about this post to me is the enlargened portion I emphasized- scum slip? How do you KNOW Mish is town? I know you said you don't think she's likely to be scum, but are you that certain that you don't even consider it possible that she's scum now?

 

I know you'll likely say this is semantics, but I think town Tommy would have said "as if a townie can't defend someone he thinks is town"

 

Ok guys..sorry for my absence..working day shifts this week and it's been very difficult to participate from work.  And I don't spend too much time on the puter when at home with my wife.  Not fair to her considering my work schedule.

 

Good man. I'm sort of the same. Home = family time hehe. Good thing is, family time will often include her watching me play Left 4 Dead lol. What can I say- I'm a lucky guy!

 

 

What do you mean from this statement?  We've played 3 games together.  1 I was scum...and another I pegged you after your 2nd post as scum.  Your being emotional and throwing jabs at people is your flaw and scumtell.  You'd think you'd wrap it up.  It's amazing you give Despo crap about being emo when you are the much bigger queen.

 

I'm not sure the bolded is true- I thought the same thing after seeing him start off really calm and collected in his first game when he was cop. So I pushed his lynch in a game recently (in the BT I believe, might have been here), and he turned out to be town. And I witnessed him win a game as scum recently when he didn't really get emotional or aggressive once. Granted, he was the GF that game so might have played differently on purpose, but yeah either way I think it's faulty to say he's more emo as scum.

 

I think his first game was somewhat of an aberration when it comes to his style- he was prob always meant to be an aggressive type player, but that didn't come out at first when he was still getting comfortable playing.

 

 

Yes, you pegged me that game. Try reading the QT for that game sometimes brosef. I'll pass on the drama with you until Tommy, Mish and I have reasoned things through. I think you're still salty I think metal isn't music.

 

Metal isn't music.  It's a way of life. 

 

 

Preach it brother

 

\m/

 

 

Tommy, I'm back. If you have a question you want to ask I'll be available to answer now.

I'm not trying to be "cute" when I say that asking people to question you is a very wolfy thing to say. Wolves like to do that because it gives the impression of being active and invested while being reactive and not having to produce actual pro-active content. I am still comfortable with my vote on you because you have been overly melodramatic in this game and have purposefully tried to spin my reasoning into obscenely reduced versions of what I am actually saying while being a major hypocrite. 

 

This is actually somewhat of a decent point, first time I wavered somewhat in my stance on you two.

 

GE's response makes sense somewhat tho- that you prompted him to have a tete a tete with you later, and then when he mentions he's available for questioning, you fos him.

 

And I answered your questions, to which you didn't acknowledge.  Nice dodge there on your part sir!

 

Yeah gurl!

 

 

Yeah, I misunderstood the setup initially. Feel free to vote me. I believe strongly Mish and Tommy are scum. Tommy's reasoning is suspect, but he's managed to make the whole thing about people avoiding his sanctimonious line of questioning. The fact that Tommy seems incapable of understanding my issue is with him is ridiculous, I know he's intelligent enough to realize this. As such, the whole argument is obviously staged on his part to cover for Mish, who he's been white-knighting.

First part is whyme fryme, second part is pure hypocrisy.

 

Did you mean to say whyme fryme here? If so, you're misusing it, which is surprising for a veteran like yourself. You could say it's AtE mebbe, but whyme fryme only really applies when the player is only concerned with defending themselves, not fos'ing others. GE isn't really doing that here at all, and I think he's been pretty proactive as a scumhunter this game, pretty much exempting him from the whyme fryme card.

 

Your second point is valid however. Him calling you out for white knighting Mish when he could be seen as doing the same with Hallia could easily be construed as hypocrisy. I have said before tho, that being a hypocrite doesn't make you scum.

 

 

You're not answering me.

Didn't read your whole post tbh. 

 

Wtf is this crap?!?!?! You make such a big deal about Hallia not responding to you and ignoring you and everything for a while, then when she DOES give you a detailed response covering pretty much everything you've raised against her, you don't even read it all?

 

This makes zero sense if you were actually town. Town Tommy would have wanted to see and study her responses to see if they seemed more townie or scummie.

 

It shows you were more interested in lynching Hallia than lynching someone you thought was scum.

 

So you dog me all day, harass me about 'not answering you' and then you do the exact thing?  Just because you didn't want to bother to read?  Talk about others not being on their A game.  Disappointed.

 

Dayum Hallia I think I'm crushing on you this game. You're on fire!

 

 

[hazelkrs1]

Just to summarize my feelings/case on Tom right now-

 

Saw the early stuff linking him and Mish and thought it was scum-scum, and I'm now thinking it was scum-town and Tom was trying to buddy her.

 

The way Tom has responded to GE's meta read screams overcautious scum to me. Instead of just dismissing the meta read since they've played so little together, Tom first tries to say GE shouldn't use meta with him at all, then tries to say he doesn't know how town Tom plays, etc.

 

It seemed more than odd to me that Tom first voted me, then had a post where he asked me a few questions and backtracked on his scum read of me, just to pretty much go after low-hanging fruit in Hallia after that. Town Tommy wouldn't care enough to go after someone like Hallia at that point I believe, he'd want to get more reads on the vocal players first. After a few phases, THEN I could see him going after someone he thought wasn't contributing much at all.

 

His tunneling on Hallia doesn't feel right to me. Normally I see town Tom vote hopping a lot, pursuing multiple places for potential scummies to be hiding, he's downright frenetic as a scumhunter. Since going after Hallia however, he has pretty much only gone back and forth with GE a bit, and asked multiple people to look at Hallia.

 

Nudging GE as scum for a while, and then only voting him once Cscumarlami did as well pings majorly. What happened to all his concern for Hallia as scum? I know he's now saying he sees GE as a better chance for scum, but GE had acted pretty much the same to Tom throughout their argument. So why wait until someone else votes him first? Cause scum Tom saw the Hallia train wouldn't likely gain much traction, so felt he better switch targets.

 

Scum.

[hazelkrs1]

Prob more but eh that's good for now.
 
Thoughts on all players:

1. Peace - haven't seen enough yet, but gut tells me town for now
2. Tommy - Scum
3. Goldeneyes - Town
4. Hallia (mentored by Leelou) - most likely town, either way her swag is HAWT this game.
5. Csarmi - Middling scum read
6. Cloud - way off his meta. Not nearly loud enough. I want to review his posts.
7. Alanna - had an initial town read on her, now worried she's using the "don't like aggressive playstyles" thing to stay on the sidelines
8. Mish - had an initial scum read, and I've waffled a lot on her, but I'm thinking she's town now. Mostly because of how she took it for granted that others would assume her to be vanilla after she didn't claim. That kind of faulty logic (granted, a town PR will most likely claim at L-1, but a scummer won't) I don't see scum Mish pushing. Plus I'm now thinking Tom was buddying her as town.
13. Despo - Top Tier Town

[_CLOUD]

Hey everyone I just have to finish an important assignment for school in the next few hours and then I will catch up again where I left off. I will have a lot more time this weekend and next week to pay this game the attention it deserves so expect the usual loud Cloud to make a return

[csarmi]

@Despo:

 

Your spoiler monstrosity isn't very easy to reply to.Not gonna try and split and such, just weight in as I go.

 

#Tom - My impression is that he'd been trying different angles, different players, different agendas. Not set in his way. Shifting focus. Not sure I got that across well, but that's my impression.

 

#Cloud - I'm well aware of the fact that Cloud's been less active than usual. Now I noticed that he's been less active than usual everywhere (same with Peace by the way). Of which, by the way, you're just as aware as I am. And yea I liked that reaction. No bullshitting, just straight out answer.

[Tommyrod]

Just to summarize my feelings/case on Tom right now-

 

Saw the early stuff linking him and Mish and thought it was scum-scum, and I'm now thinking it was scum-town and Tom was trying to buddy her.

 

The way Tom has responded to GE's meta read screams overcautious scum to me. Instead of just dismissing the meta read since they've played so little together, Tom first tries to say GE shouldn't use meta with him at all, then tries to say he doesn't know how town Tom plays, etc.

 

It seemed more than odd to me that Tom first voted me, then had a post where he asked me a few questions and backtracked on his scum read of me, just to pretty much go after low-hanging fruit in Hallia after that. Town Tommy wouldn't care enough to go after someone like Hallia at that point I believe, he'd want to get more reads on the vocal players first. After a few phases, THEN I could see him going after someone he thought wasn't contributing much at all.

 

His tunneling on Hallia doesn't feel right to me. Normally I see town Tom vote hopping a lot, pursuing multiple places for potential scummies to be hiding, he's downright frenetic as a scumhunter. Since going after Hallia however, he has pretty much only gone back and forth with GE a bit, and asked multiple people to look at Hallia.

 

Nudging GE as scum for a while, and then only voting him once Cscumarlami did as well pings majorly. What happened to all his concern for Hallia as scum? I know he's now saying he sees GE as a better chance for scum, but GE had acted pretty much the same to Tom throughout their argument. So why wait until someone else votes him first? Cause scum Tom saw the Hallia train wouldn't likely gain much traction, so felt he better switch targets.

 

Scum.

 

I can kind see why you think I'd be scum if you do what Salami said and tilt my screen 90 degrees, but you're wrong and here's why:

 

In the beginning I was poking fun at Golden a bit because I thought he was trying something out that I hadn't seen him do as scum when he said I was cute and that I was off my meta. I thought he was just being really aggressive to start off in an attempt to flush out reactions. But his reasoning was totally counter-intuitive "scum tommy is verbose and town tommy is verbose so you're not verbose and must be scum!" made no sense, so I was poking fun at him by asking if that means I must be indie since what he said was that I'm apparently always verbose.

 

The only real link I've had to Mish is me thinking that her behavior hasn't been scummy enough to warrant the L-1 rush that transpired on her, and when I haven't understood her thinking I've asked her for clarification. When she left and said she'd be sick I mused about it in thread because it's hard to defend someone who won't even be around. It's never impossible that two players are aligned, but you should look at my questions to her and her responses and tell me if you still think we're scum-scum.

 

I suspicions of both Golden and Des early on because they were tooting the same horn that didn't even make sense to me. If someone has an opposite stance to my own that's usually a bad sign because I'm not totally crazy (yet) and think I have a reasonable idea of when people are being townish or being scummy. Mish just never triggered a serious scum feel for me, though I did ask her for clarification when I didn't understand her stance, like her saying that Des wouldn't make that L-3 vote as scum, because I thought that was a silly reason to clear someone. 

 

So the fact that Hallia had what seemed like no justification for putting Mish at L-1 (gut?) after Hallia had "pursued" a vote on Des and then claimed in that very post that both Des and Mish made null posts made no sense. I made a note of it and moved on, argued with Golden and Des a bit and was having fun with it because to my mind, neither one was making good cases. I understand having to make cases with little evidence in D1, but the rush to lynch Mish over what is essentially nothing was completely bogus to my mind.

 

Then the thread got quiet and I got bored and started trying to get people to talk more, because I thought it was likely the quiet people in the background (Cloud, Salami, Allana) would be better scum candidates if town was self imploding as tends to happen in D1. I kept asking people for their reads and stances because scum will make the most mistakes with reads early on. Then I thought about the L-1 situation again, went back and ISO'd Hallia's posts, and found them severely lacking. Made my original case for her, and Golden flipped out on me. He originally had flipped out on Mish while also defending Hallia... so I thought, okay, this is definitely weird, but I can at least reason it out with Golden and figure out why he's acting like this. But then he kept being obnoxious and acting like I'm obviscum for going after the player who I think had the worst play in the thread, Hallia. He wouldn't even try to acknowledge that he could be wrong or I could have a point. He just kept shouting that I was trying to take attention off Mish, declared I am scum trying to be town leader, and other nonsensical and hypocritical things. So why is he white knighting Hallia to the point of abrasiveness and making himself look borderline incompetent? Either they're scum-scum, which I thought at first, or it's scum protecting town, which I think is looking more and more likely. I went with what I think is the safer conclusion for now: Golden is probably scum buddying Hallia because he thinks she will sheep his vote.

 

What still gives me pause is some of the odd things Hallia has said and done, like her lack of reasoning for the L-1 vote, or the way she said Mish must be scum because she wasn't hammered, even though Des was on Mish's lynch and she had thought Des was scum just moments before, her ridiculous lie detector trap statement, and the way she initially refused to acknowledge the questions I had posed to her by saying I was just being a big old meanie! To then come back and FOS me for not replying to her points immediately when it took her half a day and a lot of complaining on my end to get her to respond to mine was just the essence of hypocrisy. And that's a theme we continue seeing in this game, particularly where Golden's arguments are concerned. 

[csarmi]

@Despo: Also, I suggest you try gifs or memes instead because you don't seem to have a knack for name distortion. I've bought an extra 1gb of net access.

[Tommyrod]

Des, regarding your case on me above: I don't know why you seem to be missing the point that I am purposefully playing in a way that challenges the idea of meta. I'm sick of meta being a large chunk of arguments for cases, because meta can easily be changed by an intelligent player, and I'll be blunt -- you guys don't really know me or know what I'm capable of as either alignment. So for you or Golden to use the argument "town Tommy would never do this" or "scum Tommy says that" is to get yourself tripped up over what I want you to think. You may not understand this concept right this second, but Salami seems to have picked up on my shift, and I think you will get my point by the end of the game. If you're not just scum trying to find easy excuses to hang me then you'll be really surprised when you see I'm town, and the downfall of your cases will have been your reliance on meta reads of me. These early posts really made me laugh and facepalm at the same time:
 

 

 

vote Tommy

 

for trying to act "cute" with his first couple posts

 

 

 

Tommy is town, he didn't call me a crappy player for opening with "yo."  He does that as scum.

 

 

 

Tommy is town, he didn't call me a crappy player for opening with "yo."  He does that as scum.

...wow, lol. Please tell me this is mostly sarcasm with a hint of a town lean.

 

 

 

Town Tommy is verbose and helpful, scum Tommy is verbose combined with reticent at times. You entered the game with a weak opening post and started to pal around, which I haven't seen from you before. Of course it's only 2 posts, you can still turn this sinking ship around!  

 

 

And I thought I would teach you guys a bit of a lesson here: meta don't mean jack when you're dealing with intelligent players who can behave in whatever manner they choose. Consider this a sub-plot to the primary plot of scumhunting. I'm extremely bored of meta reads being 30-80% of a case and you thinking you know me well enough to pin my alignment down by meta or the way I phrase arguments is a bit insulting but more indicative of your own laziness. 

[Tommyrod]

Come at me wolves

[hazelkrs1]

I'll respond to the rest later, too tried right now. But Tommy, I did say MANY times that meta is fairly unreliable, and should pretty much never be the sole or primary push behind a case. And you're right, in somce ommunities, meta is relied upon too much.  I use it, but I don't put too much stock in it, it's one of many valuable scumhunting tools I like to employ.

 

One thing you're glossing over however: meta can be a great starting point to activate a game, and go from there. Scum will rarely slip up easily D1, and it's common for aggressive town leader types to tunnel on eachother and dominate the focus of the game. But using meta just helps give you kind of a good blanket starting point for everyone in the game, it becomes one of the first things that can stand out to you about them, and something you can start using to put their play in context. It's not like you're starting the game with X amount of blank personalities, and everything will be sorted out from slips alone or something. Everyone brings their own style to eha game, their own flair. I understand intelligent players know how to abuse their meta, I do it all the time in fact. But unless you play in a forum with nothing but alt games, you're always going to encounter meta. It's always going to be present in some fashion, even if it's left to the side a bit as more powerful scumhunting tools come into play.

 

As such, your crusade against it this game seems at best fruitless and a distraction, and at worst a clear attempt to discredit cases against you to make it easier to escape a noose.

[Tommyrod]

Not disagreeing it can be useful

 

As a supplement

 

Not as a main case

 

Golden has been coming after me for two primary reasons

 

My meta is off

 

And I attacked Hallia

 

And you seem to believe I'm scum because I wouldn't do this stuff as town

 

You also came at me when I was town with similar reasoning (Tom is being lazy; he's scum!) in another game. You know the one

 

So I beseech the, noble players of DM, to cast off your meta shackles

 

And embrace the borderline sociopathy that is Tom's top tier mafia madness

 

Focus on the evidence, the timing, the reasoning, and see if there's a way to make it all congruent

 

If meta contradicts that, check again

 

But don't ignore thread logic and champion meta reads over it

 

Cuz you ain't even know me like dat

 

And it's boring

 

Maybe my crusade is a distraction

 

But too many people made goofy meta comments right to start

 

Peace clearing me was ridiculous

 

Des and Golden burying me for being different is ridiculous

 

Mish saying scum Des wouldn't be the second vote on someone is ridiculous

 

And on and on

 

For town meta can be useful to start

 

But for scum it's often just an easy scapegoat

 

Fight the present, not the past

 

And keep it real, yo

[Hallia]

So you've been on for a while and responded to others but still not me?

 

unvote

Vote Tommy

[Hallia]

So you've been on for a while and responded to others but still not me?

 

unvote

Vote Tommy

[Hallia]

Mooobiiiiiiiiiillleeeeee XD

[hazelkrs1]

Peace "clearing" you with meta was a joke. You seriously didn't pick up on that? Others did. Town Tom would have picked up on it.

[hazelkrs1]

Damn ninja Hallia

 

Above post was to Tommy

[hazelkrs1]

Hallia, what do you think about some other players besides the ones you've voted? Got any standout feelings on anyone else?

[Tommyrod]

Peace "clearing" you with meta was a joke. You seriously didn't pick up on that? Others did. Town Tom would have picked up on it.

This is precisely what I'm talking about. Town Tom is right here. So I have a question for you:

 

Do you truly believe you understand me fully to the point that you can read my mind

 

Or

 

Are you scum purposefully using meta as a straw man argument?

[Tommyrod]

So you've been on for a while and responded to others but still not me? unvote

Vote Tommy

I'll deal with you in a bit.

[hazelkrs1]

 

Peace "clearing" you with meta was a joke. You seriously didn't pick up on that? Others did. Town Tom would have picked up on it.

This is precisely what I'm talking about. Town Tom is right here. So I have a question for you:

 

Do you truly believe you understand me fully to the point that you can read my mind

 

Or

 

Are you scum purposefully using meta as a straw man argument?

 

 

Le sigh. You yet again miss an obvious joke. Oh well.

 

Tom, I've presented A LOT MOAR than meta against you. I have at times reasoned that I could see now rationale for you doing something as town, that's not meta my friend. It's using the powers of logic and common sense. If you're so worried this meta shiz is a straw man, go ahead and address the rest of my case and let the meta thing go.

[csarmi]

Mooobiiiiiiiiiillleeeeee XD

 

Mobile - Hally: 3-0

 

 

So you've been on for a while and responded to others but still not me? unvote

Vote Tommy

I'll deal with you in a bit.

 

 

That sound scary :)

[Hallia]

Thanks for keeping a kill count Csarmi!

 

Des, right now I have town reads on Csarmageddon, GE, and you, and I'm feeling less firm on my scum read on Mish.  I didn't think about the L-1 refrain from claim.  

 

Peace and Alanna I'm not sure on right now.  And I'm missing one person. O.o

[Hallia]

And Cloud.  He hasn't done anything scummy to me, so he can be town for now.

[csarmi]

Despo, what do you think about Golden's game?