[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[elffern]

Er voting without giving reason, claiming the reason to be 'why do I have to repeat clouds reasons', ignoring repeated requests to expand on this, then gives something that could finally be a response and claims this to be the reason he voted, however its mostly based of interactions with nolder which came after, and generally playing with emotion rather than actual substance (though that last one might be a thing explainable by meta I'm not aware of.

[GoldeneyesND]

##vote elffern

 

Because you've posted ad nauseum about why your opinion is bestest and right. I find you overly defensive, frenetic, I disagree with a substantial portion of your logic and you engage in endless whyme fryme. Even if the scum vibe I get from you is wrong, I don't find most of what you say to contribute to actual scumhunting, other than to FOS several people and then submit an OMGUS vote which you lyingly claim is based on gameplay. 

[csarmi]

VoteCount Day01#06

 

 

BFG: -> Golden

Leelou: -> Nolder

Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin

Peace: -> Elf

Tommy: -> Peace -> Turin

Elf: -> Peace

Turin: -> Tommy

Krak: -> Cloud

Golden: -> Elf

 

 

 

Elf - 2 - Peace, Golden

Nolder - 1- Leelou

Peace - 1 - Elf

Golden - 1 - BFG

Turin - 2 - Tommy, Cloud

Tommy - 1 - Turin

Cloud - 1 - Krak

 

Not voting: the rest of you

8 to lynch. No DL set.

 

 

Please note that only votes starting with ##vote are accepted. Cause I can't search the topic for "##" (less than 3 characters). Yes, Cloud, it applies to you too.

[peacesells]

##unvote

 

## vote golden eyes

 

 

Reason, that last post was a big pile. I'll explain in the morning when I can get to a computer. Maybe :).

[GoldeneyesND]

Meh, I won't hold my breath for some deep insights in your read on me. I've come to determine you're not as good as you think you are. 

[Blackhoof]

Sorry I haven't posted in the last twenty pages, Christmas and all....

 

LOTS of developments though..... ugh, I haven't quite made sense of it all yet....

 

 

Well, that's it for me for today. Could you do me a favor though and summarize in a couple sentences why you are suspicious of Peace, Effie? Have fun playing Drunk Mafia! See you guys tomorrow.

 

what is with this whole backflip thing from Cloud's corner? All game he tunnels on Elf and suddely she is town, and he is asking her for advice on who to vote?

 

 

 

##vote elffern

 

Because you've posted ad nauseum about why your opinion is bestest and right. I find you overly defensive, frenetic, I disagree with a substantial portion of your logic and you engage in endless whyme fryme. Even if the scum vibe I get from you is wrong, I don't find most of what you say to contribute to actual scumhunting, other than to FOS several people and then submit an OMGUS vote which you lyingly claim is based on gameplay. 

 

hmmmmm not many valid points in that post... and it is clear that the Elf lynch is going nowhere, havign no basis to it.

 

##unvote

## vote golden eyes


Reason, that last post was a big pile. I'll explain in the morning when I can get to a computer. Maybe :).

 

and now peace has turned on Golden for it... I can certainly see why, but in the space on one page Cloud and Peace have both ditched the Elf lynch. Not sure what to make of it. 

If I was scum, I think that a strategy I could try would be to tunnel on one player and try to get a quick lynch.... but that seems stupid and risky, especially when Christmas guarantees that activity would be low.

 

If I was scum, I do not think that I would persist in a lynch like Elf's like Golden has, because that seems like a dead end so far. However, as scum I might jump on a player using crappy reasoning to vote someone, especially if my current vote was going nowhere.... like Peace has done. That makes sense, I think.

 

As they say, to catch scum... you have to THINK like scum....

 

so, until I think about these developments a bit more, I will place my vote here

##vote peace

 

Hoof out

[elffern]

##vote elffern

 

Because you've posted ad nauseum about why your opinion is bestest and right. I find you overly defensive, frenetic, I disagree with a substantial portion of your logic and you engage in endless whyme fryme. Even if the scum vibe I get from you is wrong, I don't find most of what you say to contribute to actual scumhunting, other than to FOS several people and then submit an OMGUS vote which you lyingly claim is based on gameplay.

Whereas you have lain quite low, this is what, your third day one post? And I'm the only person to have pointed that out as yet, unless I misremember.

 

Most of my posting has been to refute others. Obviously I think my opinion on what I did and why is right and neatest, because I know why I did what I did.

 

Heh whyme fryme, that's an interesting concept (thank you Google) , however I'm still not entirely sure why peace voted me. Perhaps I'm just being stubbornly thick, but I would still like to know, because I like knowing stuff.

 

1. If it was omgus wouldn't it be on cloud?

2. Shouldn't I have done it right away?

3. Why am I lying? Evidence please.

[_CLOUD]

@Hoof: Effie has defended herself well against my attacks on her and she also made a lot of valid points while she was adressing my case. The recent developments made me change my mind about her and so I unvoted. I'm not going to push for someone I don't think is scum anymore; It's simple as that. And as for me asking her for a quick summary of her case on Peace I did that because I was starting to miss the meaning behind their constant back and forth.

 

By the way I don't see any logical reasoning behind your vote on Peace. You only go on about what you would do and wouldn't do as scum which is WIFOM at best, and you don't even appear to be analyzing Peace's actual play in the game.

[elffern]

Some post may have been shortened to take out irrelevant content and due to the quote limit

 

##vote elf

Initial vote hot on clouds heels, no explanation

 

Probably because I'm not a very adept player. Really, why are you asking questions you've already answered for yourself?

Why is it necessary to regurgitate Cloud's reasons?

Both of these are pretty evasive non-answers, first playing the 'oh well you said I'm no good so must be because of that' card and then asks why its necessary to repeat clouds reasons. Note this is not actually an explanation or even confirmation that he agrees with cloud.

 

Also what tommyrod said peace, explanation?

I ask why and am ignored.

 

However I still haven't seen you give a good reason for voting for me before you went of on your tangents?

I ask why again. And am ignored again.

 

## vote peace you still haven't explained why you voted for me? I don't min you voting for me, so much as not giving a reason.

then you need to re-read.

Voting for peace seems to get his attention

 

Ok then

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

##vote elf

So someone said you start every game with "yo" which means you're aware of your own meta which means you're probably not a very adept player (no offense intended) since you have a gimmick to cover yourself. Why are you me-too-ing Cloud's vote without any prior commentary or justification? If anyone has the right to be second in line here, it's me. Pls explain

 

Probably because I'm not a very adept player. Really, why are you asking questions you've already answered for yourself?

 

Uh... that's the cue for you to explain your vote. Go on. We won't bite!

 

Why is it necessary to regurgitate Cloud's reasons?

 

This is the closest you came to actually saying why. Do you agree with everything cloud said? Or just something's? And why do you believe them?

 

I ask again here

 

You are contradicting the most "logical" process in the game for establishing town behavior. Giving reads. You discredit Tommy for giving reads. Like I said, I've given you my reason. You chose to ignore it. In my emotional opinion your logic has failed.

 

(I'm really hoping you can see the sarcasm...when it's being obviously pointed out to you.)

 

 

Let's extrapolate a bit more.

 

You FOS Tommy for giving his reads.

 

Nolder states, when building a case on me, that giving reasons/reads is the only acceptable town behavior.

 

You never question Nolder on this?

 

Logically that does not add up.

 

Do you wish to check your logic?

The first thing that could actually be called an explanation, sorta starting to think peace is a politician. Here peace pretty much says that I am against all reads a couple of times and that I ignored his explanation . Also I still can't find where nolder actually said that, but as mentioned previously to that post I just don't think early day one reads on first posts solely is a good idea.

 

You seem intent on wilfully misinterpreting what I say, and also are you saying that extrapolation is the reason why you voted?

I ask if that extrapolation was why he voted .. get ignored again (seems to be a common theme here

 

 

I also don't like how you're making Elf out to be the center of attention.

As if asking MetaWorld Peace for a reason on voting her is unreasonable.

It's not...but I had answered and she either didn't see it or ignored it.

 

Ironically I'm the one who has missed or ignored the 'explanation'

 

Technically it wasn't an answer? I didn't ignore it, I've rebought it up twice now and am still waiting for your answer to my further questions. Again.

What other questions Elfie?

 

I link to my previous post.

 

Yes. It's what everyone in the game does. Extrapolate.

That's the whole response to that entire post. Also here pecse confirms his reason for voting me finally, its based on that extrapolation about nolder he gave. However that is impossible, as peace voted before nolder had posted on day one. This along with the evasiveness and unwillingness to answer, is why I'm continuing to vote for peace.

[Leelou]

Elf, I feel like you are beating a dead horse. I'll catch fully up on thread after I get into work.

[peacesells]

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

 

Actually, it's the most town thing you can do.  It put you out there to be read.  Tommy gives me strong town vibes just for that one action.  He may be the new guy coming in here insulting people before anyone knows him...and has no clues on how to behave in a social setting when you are the new guy but he is town so far.

 

 

you missed this post.  you were accusing tommy of being scummy while he was making a protown move.  I may not have laid it out perfectly for you, or you may have not understood..but this was my given reason.

[peacesells]

Golden...your reaction to my vote on you is to insult me?

[_CLOUD]

He does that all the time. You shouldn't take it personal.

[_CLOUD]

Also, can you explain what you found to be off about Golden's post?

[Tommyrod]

DM games have a different taste to them. I think it's because of the quotes-within-quotes-within-quotes system and the particular metas you guys have developed here. Christmas is over so I'm giving the thread a re-read.
 

Krakalakachkn 12

Blackhoof 9

GoldeneyesND 7

Turin Turambar 7

Hallia 3

Theodora 3

dansyc 0
 

Before I do, looking at this list, I suggest we give a closer eye to the people with <10 posts. It's not game specific, just something that pretty much always holds true: there's gonna be one "power" mafia who posts a lot and one lurker, with the rest in the middle. I've never seen this be wrong yet.

 

The fact that we have a player who hasn't posted at all is a little pesky.

[elffern]

 

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

Actually, it's the most town thing you can do. It put you out there to be read. Tommy gives me strong town vibes just for that one action. He may be the new guy coming in here insulting people before anyone knows him...and has no clues on how to behave in a social setting when you are the new guy but he is town so far.

 

you missed this post. you were accusing tommy of being scummy while he was making a protown move. I may not have laid it out perfectly for you, or you may have not understood..but this was my given reason.

 

... that was in response to something I said to cloud, also, Toddy didn't do that until later, my issues was he asking other people to, and I never said Tommy was scummy, I believe I said it stuck out and that it pinged , and in fact that came after I had categorically said I didn't actually find toddy scummy? [/sigh]

 

I suppose if you were going off what cloud was saying that makes sense. ##unvote peace

 

*edited for formatting

[_CLOUD]

DM games have a different taste to them. I think it's because of the quotes-within-quotes-within-quotes system and the particular metas you guys have developed here. Christmas is over so I'm giving the thread a re-read.

This isn't really a game related question but how would you compare DM Mafia to TMF from what you have seen so far?

 

Before I do, looking at this list, I suggest we give a closer eye to the people with <10 posts. It's not game specific, just something that pretty much always holds true: there's gonna be one "power" mafia who posts a lot and one lurker, with the rest in the middle. I've never seen this be wrong yet.

 

The fact that we have a player who hasn't posted at all is a little pesky.

 

Agreed. Start posting or get hung up on the Christmas tree.

[elffern]

Cloud your play is confusing me, the sudden dropping of your vote against me against me (not that I'm not thankful ) is weird , I'm going to have to re read on you. It still doesn't make sense to me that mafia would make this much noise but then my brain goes all wifom and gah.

[_CLOUD]

I just have an aggressive playstyle, but you got to do what you got to do :)

[peacesells]

Also, can you explain what you found to be off about Golden's post?

 

Yeah..I will once I get settled at work if we aren't crazy busy. 

[Blackhoof]

DM games have a different taste to them. I think it's because of the quotes-within-quotes-within-quotes system and the particular metas you guys have developed here. Christmas is over so I'm giving the thread a re-read.

 

 

Krakalakachkn 12

 

Blackhoof 9

 

GoldeneyesND 7

 

Turin Turambar 7

 

Hallia 3

 

Theodora 3

 

dansyc 0

 

 

Before I do, looking at this list, I suggest we give a closer eye to the people with <10 posts. It's not game specific, just something that pretty much always holds true: there's gonna be one "power" mafia who posts a lot and one lurker, with the rest in the middle. I've never seen this be wrong yet.

 

The fact that we have a player who hasn't posted at all is a little pesky.

 

I expect people will start posting more now that Christmas is wrapping up. that is why I wasn't posting.

 

Dansyc's complete lack of posts is annoying, however, he had several days even before christmas to post during N0 

 

 

Cloud your play is confusing me, the sudden dropping of your vote against me against me (not that I'm not thankful ) is weird , I'm going to have to re read on you. It still doesn't make sense to me that mafia would make this much noise but then my brain goes all wifom and gah.

 

that is what I was thinking, but you know... WIFOM

 

 

I think that one of Cloud or Peace is mafia. Tommy has a point about their being a vocal scum player. Tom and Elf I have a bit of a townish read on so far.

[_CLOUD]

Care to explain your reads on me, Tom and Effie?

[Leelou]

Seems to me Hoof is going with general consensus reads of people so far. I want to go back and look at Turin's posts. I admit I glazed over them the first time through since I was mostly reading from my phone while on trains. I just need to finish filing this morning then I'll jump into a few ISOs. 

[Krakalakachkn]

DM games have a different taste to them. I think it's because of the quotes-within-quotes-within-quotes system and the particular metas you guys have developed here. Christmas is over so I'm giving the thread a re-read.

 

 

Krakalakachkn 12

 

Why u tweakin' bro?

[Tommyrod]

So I wrote these in parallel, meaning they are in chronological order by player but the events aren't in order for you as the reader. So you should read them all before replying as some of the commentary for one player will reference other players as I go along. These are my thoughts up until Post #200, will continue developing. Some players have posted wayyyy more than others and will have more meat to chew on.

 

01 - Peace

The meta-aware opening of "yo" in #13. He hasn't posted shit until #114 when he sheeps Cloud's vote on Elf out of the blue. He gets snarky as fuck when I question that move, and makes an art out of dodging my question for a while. Very uncomfortable with the continuation of dodging, particularly in #127 with "why is it necessary to regurgitate Cloud's reasons?" This one pings me harder the second time, because town should know why they're doing what they're doing. It should roll right off the tongue because they have an organic thought process. They develop suspicions and act on them. Yet Peace has difficulty articulating any reasoning for his vote on Elf. No bueno. 

 

When I ask if this is normal behavior, Cloud and Leelou both say yes. It doesn't mean I am going to give him a free pass for that, though. Peace gets uber snarky when I ask for more detail from other players on his play. Then he backtracks and says I'm very town in #151... I don't know how I feel about this one. Yes, townies do this sometimes, to see how people will react. But I've also seen mafia back down with a "hah! just testing you!" excuse. I'll put him down as slightly scummy by this point. Using the 2+2 forums and my ego as a counter-point is working outside of the game instead of inside it... I dislike that behavior a lot. 

 

Peace blows off Elf's vote on him with a "you need to re-read" comment in #177, which I dislike because he is twice now refusing to give reasonable justification for his original action when prompted. Why can't he produce an argument off the cuff? Ping. I dislike how he jumps on Nolder in #184 after Leelou already cast doubt on Nolder. He follows up with that in #189, which is good. 

 

Peace attacking my "you can show me you're town by scumhunting" comment in #198 by trying to spin it as pigeon-holing Turin smells like crap on second read. I've never had someone do that to me before and it doesn't even make sense. But that aside, it stinks because Peace and Turin have had no interaction with each other yet both have defended each other... why would they both be assuming I am scum and they are town? This only makes sense if they are masons or mafia. I'm guessing the latter based on their refusal to be transparent and dissect the gameplay within the thread, instead me-too-ing and OMGUSing and ignoring a large portion of the game's activity up to this point (Turin even moreso). 

 

02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe)

Opening was timid but doesn't bother me on second read. The chat between Cloud and Leelou felt natural. He could be posting just to get posts on the board when the game starts like #22 and #23. This isn't damning by itself, though, more of a supplement. Not sure what Cloud meant by me chasing shadows in #50. I like that he asked for more details from Theo in #75, but the fact that it all just falls flat bothers me. He inadvertently defends me in #107 when he says he disagrees with Elf's comment that OP analysis is scummy. Has decent reasoning in #110: I can see why he votes for Elf in that same post, so that vote feels natural. Cloud's reasoning against Elf in #141 is fluid; he's a town lean of mine. 

 

03 - Krak (mentored by Verb)

Opening was fine in #30. Says Cloud has the scummiest intro in #44. I don't think it's the scummiest. @Krak, was this a meta read on Cloud?

 

04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera)

Self conscious opening in #29. I have no idea what he's saying in #65, looks spammy.

 

06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat)

Opening seemed okay to me. Her chatter with others still feels natural and not forced by the time I enter the thread. She rebuffs me right off the bat, which is probably more town indicative than not; mafia would be more likely to sheep me (since I'm asking people to do so) and observe if I lead a mislynch to start with. It sucks that she won't try to analyze OP's though. Leeloo is getting a little too off-topic for my liking around the time #84 comes around. Votes for Nol in #104; he hasn't posted yet. Why not vote for someone else who hasn't posted like dan? Could be something, could be nothing. She's still jokey around #117 but at least comments on how Elf was backpedaling on suspicion of me. Still grinding against me in #126, but it feels genuine. Leelou is my first comfortable town read. (Looks like Cloud agrees with me in #128 and Peace grinds against that.)

 

07 - Theodora (mentored by Key)

Lame opening in #12. Being friendly with Blackhoof right off the bat in that post. THEN calls Hoof scummy in #74. Not that I... blame her... but this could be a case of scum-on-scum jostling. This happens surprisingly often in early game, where mafia will point out something dumb that mafia have done and not follow up on their suspicions but later can say "hah! I knew it!" When Cloud asks about it, she instantly backs down. Which is funny, since that Hoof post pinged me hard. I would expect a townie to probe into it a bit more? 

 

08 - Elffern (mentored by Dap)

Opening is corny but not scummy in #26. Disappears for a while and then calls me too eager in #93. But that's not the most interesting part... saying Hoof is obviously scummy and not doing anything about it is. Is Hoof the least valuable player in every game or something? People don't seem to take his antics seriously, which could be dangerous if he gets to coast to endgame without serious scrutiny. Elf throws a little suspicion on me in #106 by saying that OP analysis is looking for an easy excuse to lynch. But what bothers me is the way Elf instantly retracts once Cloud disagrees. Is Elf a very timid player?

 

Elf reappears in #137 and defends and says "I haven't seen anything else suspicious." I dislike that post a lot. He defends himself, says he's got nothing to add, and adds misdirection by asking Peace to explain himself when I questioned him. Hmm. His defense is getting a little too fluffy for my liking in #153 and #154. Comments like "maybe I'm rusty." I'm noticing he tends to end posts with a misdirection question. Elf's vote for Peace in #176 is OMGUSing I think, which is kinda funny. 

 

Elf is still trying to get info out of Peace by #186, so I am doubting that they would be scumbros. 

 

09 - Hally (mentored by Yates)

Opening post #27 pinged me on second read considering how little has been said by Hallia. It's both off-topic and me-too-ing the friendly chat that Theo and Hoof had already. Notably, Hally joins in on Hoof's spam-fest in #53. 

 

11 - dansyc (mentored by Kaylee)

No posts yet.

 

12 - Nolder

Appears in #165, hella late. He goes after Cloud right away. Throws out some fluffy comments in #178 but I agree with what he says about Peace here. I'm noticing that he's grinding against Cloud and Leelou, two of my town reads so far, so I'll be curious to see how that develops. Grinding against Peace and Turin is good, I think. Is Nolder an inexperienced player? 

 

13 - BlackHoof

Weak opening in #8 and #11. I'm not a fan of the cthulu jokey stuff. Post #51 just reeks of bullshit trying-too-hard-to-be-harmless stuff. He outright ignores any attempts at discussing the game so far. He's still spammy in #85, but what pings me about this is his comment "normally you would be on the money" regarding him being scummy. Who the hell writes a comment like this? It's too self conscious. Votes Hallia right off the bat in D1 #92 for literally no reason. Really stupid. But what's stupider is how this reinforces the spam-party that Theo, Hoof, and Hally are having now. I'm finding it to be a little too... comfy. More spam in #102. The spam is pinging me harder now. 

 

14 - Turin (advised by Pray)

#88 is his opening... to wish a merry christmas? Whatever. He's gone for a while and comes back in #169 asking why his opening looks busy and what that means. So we've got >150 posts and he only cares to defend himself in a pretty lousy way? Ping! Also refuses my attempt to start a wagon on Peace in #170. Good to keep in mind for later. He's self conscious and sassing me for lousy reasons (like Peace was) in #173... and then mentions how he's NOT defending Peace. Ping pong! 

 

Turin returns in #188 and is once again defensive and shows no interest in getting to the bottom of things. His first paragraph is about personal attacks and only defends himself and OMGUS's me without looking around the rest of the thread. Bad ping. I'm noticing Peace and Turin have yet to interact with each other. In #191 he posts about how he dislikes people who "teach" and links me to Nolder. It's hard to follow his logic in that post. He ends it by saying he'll be out for a while, which also pings me, as mafia likes to "appear" active without actually being active, and thus tends to check out. It matches his vibe of really only being defensive so far, and having defended Peace despite not having communicated with him at all. 

 

 

tl;dr: Town leans on Leelou and Cloud; scum leans on Peace and Turin who I think are either aligned or Turin is doing the scum-buddying-town thing.