[Basic] The Walking Dead Mafia - Game Over. Theo Wins!

[michellem]

We'll talk about it after the game when we know everyone's alignement. I want you all to continue to play mafia, but all of you need to learn a thing or two about how to actually play the game.

[michellem]

And I'm out for a few hours. Got a knitting project to do and dinner to eat. Hoping more people will have popped by, this is getting ridiculus.

[Theodora]

I am sorry I play bad and town will lose if I am voted. I would like you to explain or mentor me afterwards.

 

Real Life Check: I need to leave soon as it is Friday evening here and I have a date I would be back tomorrow - in 12 hours or so.

[peacesells]

I meant it is obvious that a lot of people voted for you, don't turn only to Err and myself.

 

Why don't you ask: Desp, Ishy, Err, Theo, all of you, why am I considered scum?

 

I already told you my view: two claims, one of which smells (bomb in a Basic game?), rarely here to give a position (something for which you actually blame me).

 

I am ready to sacrifice like I said by lynching you "the bomb", so people would be at ease here. Sometimes town had to sacrifice, right?

 

About Err, I do not have a read on him, the only strange thing I got from him is why he still did not  join my "fanclub" with Despo as a President or he being a newbie may still think some people claim the truth in Mafia.

 

You claimed a bomb wouldn't be in a basic game. 

 

First..theo you claiming a Bomb wouldn't be in a basic game.  Then you go on to tell Mish you are still learning and are not sure what to make of the roles???

 

There is a HUGE disconnect there.

 

 

BTW..on DM, there are 2 types of game.  Advanced and Basic.   Basic includes what others may call "Standard" games.  Which routinely have multiple roles.  We already know this isn't a pure basic set up since there is the proven existence of lovers.  Add Bomb to the mix and that is more evidence that this game is more of a standard than basic variety.

 

 

Lastly, your sacrifice statements are ill-conceived.  If you are town and you do "sacrifice", you lose the game for all of us...not just you.   So while you may be whiling to take that risk..don't ask the rest of us to do the same and just be happy about it.

 

Where in this post did I state I was fake claiming?  I am not fake claiming.

 

 

Looks to me like you are purposefully ignoring my comments.   Please explain why.

[peacesells]

 

Peace: Are you willing to switch your vote to Theo? With no-one moving their votes, we aren't getting anywhere.

 

 

 

 

I'm getting there.  Will see how much longer she stays purposefully obtuse.

[GoldeneyesND]

So, anything good happen while I was away? 

[Theodora]

Not very long, since I already stated I have to leave.

 

I am not ignoring them. I don't understand you.

 

I said I have seen a game that was declared basic firstly but after that turned out with more roles. But I simply can't believe this one is like this, as I was assured it is good for novices - like we are 3 or 4 of us here. And since there are 2 types of game - Advanced and Basic, according to you, why is there a third when a bomb appears in a basic game? That is why I was asking a simple yes or no question - Are you a bomb  - Yes or no?

 

Besides, you gave me a bad impression of the game (I know you are experienced) - you were mistaking the players, not paying attention and I got a very strong scum feel at day 1 even. Then you dropped the bomb to save your a$.

 

The roles: I learned from your post - I checked the role of the bomb but not really the doc - my mistake.

 

I am town and I apologised for playing badly. This is probably my last mafia game.  Last time Despo was all over me and you could check - I turned out to be Vanilla (Despo, brase yourself, you've heard the word). That is why I asked at this stage what should I do in order to survive, proving you, I am a townie. Scumm is laughing really hard on all of us now.

 

I have to go now.

 

Why should we consider you non-scum, Peace? I am ready to change opinions

[peacesells]

For FYI purpose. 

 

A truly basic game has 1 cop, 1 doc and maybe 1 godfather.

 

At dragonmount, standard and basic games get lumped together.

 

Standard games typically include several roles, lovers, bombs, roleblockers, mason..etc.  These are all standard roles.

 

And..a standard game is suited for beginners.  They are still pretty straight forward as opposed to advanced games where the mod has some underlying mechanics that influence the game.

 

So, let's stop gaming the mod by hacking apart what kind of game he has set up and just scum hunt.

[peacesells]

Why should we consider you non-scum, Peace? I am ready to change opinions

 

There is no way for either you or I to prove innocence short of a coroner report.  That is why the game is fun. 

 

If you think I am scum, consider my actions in total, then lay out a case and see what others think. 

[peacesells]

Besides, you gave me a bad impression of the game (I know you are experienced) - you were mistaking the players, not paying attention and I got a very strong scum feel at day 1 even. Then you dropped the bomb to save your a$.

 

 

 

 

To answer for the red.  I was in 3 games.  Didn't expect sign ups for the 3rd game to go through so fast.  That's my fault..but the more important reason for my confusion is that I was scum in game 1 and we were getting murdered in that game.  All my focus was there.  Once we lost I was better able to handle things here.

 

BTW..I was making the same mistakes in the 3rd game as well.

[peacesells]

BTW...the standard/basic issue has come up often.  It even has it's own thread.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/67426-what-constitutes-a-standard-game/?hl=standard

[Andrej]

Vote Count 3.6

 

Dora (2): Mish, Despo

Err (1): Peace

Ishy (1): Goldeneyes

 

Not voting: BFG, Dora, Err, Ishy

 

8 alive. 5 to lynch.

[GoldeneyesND]

Since all us noobs need to "learn a thing or two" I need an explanation of why Mish would role claim with no votes on her. I fail to see how claiming Doc without real pressure on you is a very town move. It gives scum an easy target for the NK and assures the cop can only investigate once more before I'm dead.

 

I don't really see how constructive comments like "I don't like playing with all these new players" or "this is getting ridiculous" are for helping newer players, unless your response is simply "my game, find your own" which is totally not the spirit I've found on DM in my own limited experience. 

 

I promised this move Day 2 and very little has changed since then.  

 

Vote Ishy

[Andrej]

^ Added to the above VC.

[peacesells]

GE at some point it is beneficial to town to go ahead and claim.  Especially at LYLO to narrow the pool of suspects down. 

 

It's a good move.  Now we can rule you and her out. 

[GoldeneyesND]

GE at some point it is beneficial to town to go ahead and claim.  Especially at LYLO to narrow the pool of suspects down. 

 

It's a good move.  Now we can rule you and her out. 

 

I see that argument, but it basically assures she or I will die tonight, which is not helpful to the town.

[peacesells]

 

GE at some point it is beneficial to town to go ahead and claim.  Especially at LYLO to narrow the pool of suspects down. 

 

It's a good move.  Now we can rule you and her out. 

 

I see that argument, but it basically assures she or I will die tonight, which is not helpful to the town.

 

 

Actually, it doesn't.  It creates a wifom for the scum team.  Mish basically rolls the dice on protecting you or herself.  The scum team has to decide which one to go after.  It's 50/50 proposition and many DOCs have been successful here on DM using it.

[GoldeneyesND]

Ok cool thanks. That explains that for me. Mish, I will let you know who I inspected shortly. I'm trying to figure out how to format the post.

[peacesells]

2. Peace - BOMB
3. Despo
5. BFG
6. Mish  - DOCTOR
7. Theodora
10. Goldeneyes  - COP
12. Err
13. Ishy

 

With Mish's claim we now have a nice small pool to hunt from.  3 of the 5 remaining players are scum.  So although we are at LYLO possibly we still have a 60% of being correct today even with just a guess.

 

The above is from my perspective.  You all will of course include yourselves as town...even the scum will, I know.

[michellem]

Yep Peace explained it well. One less person to debate today, and then we play the WIFOM-game with the mafia at night. I've been back and forth with myself on revealing or not since Daybreak, and when so many started flinging my name around I figured it was time to do so.

[GoldeneyesND]

I suppose at this point it would be wise to update the list with my investigation. The color coding is explained below.

 

2. Peace - BOMB
3. Despo
5. BFG
6. Mish  - DOCTOR
7. Theodora
10. Goldeneyes  - COP
12. Err
13. Ishy- Confirmed Investigated Scum

 

Blue is for people Ishy sticks up for. Purple is the people he accuses of being scum.

 

I investigated Ishy knowing the likelihood that everyone would think I listened to Dap and investigated Err, or investigated Theo as the second leading vote-getter. I then tried to point the FOS at a few people just to sound random. The only reason I did this was to try and get more information from and about Ishy. The following are all Ishy quotes. I have bolded and underlined Ishy's reads on other living people:

 

 

After just a quick, cursory glance, I'm much more concerned about Len than anyone else except GE. He has half the posts in this thread than he has in the other game, and this one has 80 more total posts. He's laying low, parking his vote and disappearing, and is pushing for Despo's lynch, which as I said, I believe is scum-led. I'd feel more comfortable seeing a train on him build, but I can always see where we stand when I get home.

Vote Jay Lenlo.

 

Way to direct the train and then set up your day 2 FOS.

 

 

If you're going to claim Peace, now's the time.

 

Pushes Peace to claim

 

 

You wanna give some comments on the actual game going on when you're here, Ishy?

I'll give thoughts on the only reads I have at the moment, but most are no-brainers.

GE-Cop, duh.
You-Town, or, at least, you haven't given off your clear scum-tell.
Peace-leaning scum, but not willing to test the bomb claim.
Dap-cleared by the Cop, duh.
Leroy-still say she's Town, when she's on point, her reads are well thought out.
Theo-there is NO WAY Shane would be roled as Town. Whether SK or mafia, he would be anti-Town. Best scum read.
Des-active, insightful posts, scumhunting well. Town read.
Err-overplaying the newbie card. Scum to null.

Theo or Err are my best reads for scum right now.

 

 

So I don't believe either are scum. This was before their big pushes the past 2 days.

 

I find it VERY telling that he goes out of his way to compliment Despo. Who I DO believe is scum.

 

 

Seems clear-cut to me. I won't be voting for Leelou, and have already made my thoughts on Theo known.

Vote Theo-Shane.

 

Starts the Theo train just like he started Lenlo

 

And Peace is much too experienced as scum to telegraph it that blatantly, which tells me that they want to save Theo for some reason. Godfather or even Roleblocker are common in basic games, I would guess that Theo is roled up. Although RB is much less likely, if that were the case they'd simply RB Goldeneyes and kill him.

 

Links Theo and Peace as scum. Infers Godfather for Theo. Which Despo spent time extolling yesterday

 

 

Regardless, I'd be happy to vote for any of the three, BFG, Peace, or Theo. As the only (semi)-confirmed Townie at this point, hearing Goldeneyes' opinion would be welcome.

 

Throws BFG, Peace and Theo under the buss

 

I gave my top three already, but don't mind doing so again.

Theo
Peace
BFG

 

So, to sum up. Ishy has only talked up Despo and Mish to a lesser extent. He has offered to vote for everyone else. That does not necessarily mean he has not offered to vote for another scum just to hide his team. He also defended Leelou, who was not scum, so Mish is not an automatic whereas I believe Despo is. I am going to follow up with a post of individuals comments about Ishy for the POST-investigation period once I knew he was scum. Whether well or poorly, I tried to keep conversation going so I could see who defended Ishy and who he stood up for, so I'm not going to apologize for that.

[michellem]

So you weren't trying to be friendly to me Ishy, you were just trying to get on my good side because you were mafia. I'm disappointed now.

 

Ok I gotta walk off for a while, I'm a bit upset.

[peacesells]

UNVOTE VOTE ISHY.

 

Well, looky looky, My #2. 

 

Nicely played GE.

[GoldeneyesND]

I believe Despo is scum. He's thrown multiple fits the past two days because people aren't flocking behind his trains and he is in a mutual admiration society with Ishy. FOS os people are bolded.

 

 

 

 

 

wow..you guys do a lot in a couple of days.  Back from Denver and just ran through the thread quickly.

 

In general...even though Theo has been pushing to lynch my..Leelou looks the worst of the two.  I wished you guys had run up Err as one of the two options.

 

VOTE LEELOU.

 

I'll check in and switch to Theo to hammer in an hour if need be..but I'd rather Lou.

 

 

unvote, vote Leelou

 

^This sequence of votes, unvotes, along with the lazy precursor to BFG's switched vote speaks for itself. Only 20 mins separate BFG and Peace's posts where she says she'd switch to Leelou, and Peace never says WHY Leelou looks worse between the two.

 

About as obvious as you'll ever see scum working together imo.

 

 

Oh GAWD @ these two posts. I CANNOT BELIEVE YALL DIDN'T LYNCH HER ALREADY! Ooooh I'm getting hot again.

 

In the first she is way too overeager to again label herself as a vanilla, which makes it as obvious as day to me that she's not. Seriously, there was no need for her to say vanilla. Could have just said two townies. And then offering herself up for the NK?! Puhlease!!!

 

In the second, she's eager to get Golden's viewing out as quickly as possible, thinking he might have viewed her and that everyone can start moving on to other players. I have never before seen so many GF tells in my life!

 

Golden,

 

Before you reveal who you viewed last night..consider something I use as a technique when I am the cop.

 

I don't reveal at all for and let the day start as normal and push for others go with their normal game play.  If it looks like a viewed townee is getting lynched I then step in and put a stop to it. 

 

If you got a scum viewing then you can always drop that info whenever it feels comfortable.

 

The benefit of this is that you can get more reads from the various players.  I've been in too many games where the cop says "I FOUND SCUM."  Then a quick lynch takes place and then town is stalled afterwards because there was a wasted day of scum hunting.  As soon as you say "so and so" is scum..the scum team will bus their team mate.  Hence - no info from the lynch.

 

You are free to do as you please but that has worked for me.

 

This is actually some protown advice, but I'm worried Peace put this out there just to gain some town cred.

 

Bah..hit post before I was ready.  The reason the human scum team info is important is that Theo's "Shane" claim looks much worse now.  Then that makes me wonder if there was a little gambit going on early game between Despo and Theo. 

 

"Hey, I'll bring up having a suspect character and you state that you have one too as vanilla town."

 

So, that would add Desp to the scum list based on that interaction if Theo were to flip town.

 

I think we may be at LYLO..so I'm gonna hold of voting Theo for more discussion.

 

And then he tries linking me to Theo in case anyone puts everything together

 

I think it's fairly clear that I was pushing Theo's lynch yesterday harder than just about anyone. I am town, and I am certainly not teammates with Theo.

 

Peace also makes an excuse not to vote Theo. Telling.

 

And Peace is much too experienced as scum to telegraph it that blatantly, which tells me that they want to save Theo for some reason. Godfather or even Roleblocker are common in basic games, I would guess that Theo is roled up. Although RB is much less likely, if that were the case they'd simply RB Goldeneyes and kill him.

 

How would RB'ing Golden have helped them kill him? They'd have to RB the Doc, not him.

 

Regardless, I'd be happy to vote for any of the three, BFG, Peace, or Theo. As the only (semi)-confirmed Townie at this point, hearing Goldeneyes' opinion would be welcome.

 

Slightly troubling that me and you have the exact same reads re: scum team. I would say that great minds think alike, but then I'd prob be giving both of us two much credit

 

 

 

And how is it exactly you come to the conclusion that most if not all the mafia are on the other train? You just state it, matter of fact like, but I don't follow at all how you come to that conclusion.

 

I also have a pretty strong town read on Mish, if all you have against her is vote analysis, you'll have to do better imo. Mafia will rarely group themselves up together so neatly on the same train. They will consciously be aware of others looking for links between them, so will purposefully try to be on different voting trains at the end of the day.

 

Ishy I have a sneaking feeling on, but at the same time I've agreed with just about all of the points he's brought up recently. I think you should have BFG much higher on your scum reads.

 

---

 

So yeah, even if I didn't have such a strong scum read on Theo and there wasn't that fiasco of a lynch train derailment yesterday, just from those two posts alone that I quoted above I feel completely secure in voting Theodora.

 

Look out for those withholding votes too long today, as they're prob scum waiting to see if a townie gets a vote on them so they can try and speedhammer.

 

 

 

Youre right, I am letting the game get to me a bit too much. I tend to be a bit more emotional when playing than most, and tbh, even tho this might make me sound like an ahole, I'm not fond of playing with too many newer players. I don't have the patience for it. I have also seen too many games recently where I had rock solid reads, but everyone ignored them. Tends to get me fairly frustrated.

I was a bit too hard on you tho, my bad.

But please dude. Take a moment to think about the situation. This isn't that difficult. There was a concerted effort between Peace and BFG yesterday to get Leelou lynched and save Theo. The case against Theo was already substantial BEFORE that point. This really isn't rocket science.

 

Despo is scum. I think it's likely Mish is as well despite her role claim. I'll leave it to you guys. If Mish is really a Doc, then she should protect the cop and be the NK target so i can confirm Despo is scum tonight. Easy enough way to prove your role

[Andrej]

Vote Count 3.7

Dora (1): Despo
Ishy (3): Goldeneyes, Peace, Mish

Not voting: BFG, Dora, Err, Ishy

8 alive. 5 to lynch.