World Of Warcraft Discussion

[Mulk]

The problems you are having sound a lot like the problems I remember when I first started wiping on him. A review of the logs found that only a few of our dps (25 man, but the principle still applies) were target swapping appropriately, so the oozes were getting a long run at someone before they started taking a good amount of damage. This led to multiple explosions that put us behind on dpsing the boss, which chained into us having not enough time to kill Putricide once we got him to phase 3.

 

Wish I could help more. :( I know the place inside and out and probably about half of the hard modes (I quit raiding this past March and we'd only beaten the gunship, BQL and one or two other hard modes at that time), but it's hard to analyze without actually being a part of the group AND without sounding like a know-it-all or being insulting, which I don't wish to do. I just like to see people succeed and hope I can help in some small way. Keep in mind that guy is pretty difficult as Wrath bosses go, and he causes a lot of wipes, even with the health and dps buff, so wipes on him occur on occasion even when you know the fight.

[Emperor]

Good news everyone!

 

We beat PP last night in 3 tries. It was just how everyone says... when everything goes right it just seems so easy.

 

I think we got the LK down to 40% during one of our last attempts. Defile and the Valkrys were our biggest problems.

 

Our next attempt is Wednesday. I have a dilemma though... I just scored free tickets to the advanced screening of 127 hours on Wednesday. But I don't wanna miss beating LK. Sad. I will probably just go see the movie when it hits theatres in a few more weeks.

[Verbal32]

I might not be around for Wednesday either, so I would just go to the movie, lol. We won't be downing him on our next day - I'm guessing it will take another couple dozen wipes to get it right.

 

I *might* be able to join up later on Wednesday, but who knows. I thought Varju had decided not to have it Wed b/c many people said they couldn't be there, but I might be wrong.

[Emperor]

I might not be around for Wednesday either, so I would just go to the movie, lol. We won't be downing him on our next day - I'm guessing it will take another couple dozen wipes to get it right.

 

I *might* be able to join up later on Wednesday, but who knows. I thought Varju had decided not to have it Wed b/c many people said they couldn't be there, but I might be wrong.

 

Please let me know if he changes it or cancels it. He might do it if you are not coming. If we can do it Thursday night instead I can take Friday off and stay up a little later.

 

I am guessing everything has to go just right and while it doesn't seem likely that we down him you never know.. and I would hate to miss it.

[Mulk]

what do you all think of the elemental invasion and extra bosses?

[Emperor]

what do you all think of the elemental invasion and extra bosses?

 

I like how quick you get into a random event boss and how good the loot is they drop. I haven't really figured out how the elemental invasion effects my toons except I can't use the AH or mailbox when they arrive.

[Verbal32]

Same here, lol. I really needed that SW mailbox last night dammit.

 

Haven't fought any elemental bosses....what the heck are they for? What ilvl loot do they drop?

[Mulk]

251, same as ICC10 normal mode. They're fairly easy as long as you can avoid fire/frost/etc and not stand in it. Mind you, the number of people with a Kingslayer title who are incapable of moving when they are surrounded by fire is a staggering percentage...

 

I found the amped up Flamelash to be the most annoying as a healer; he was doing some sort of aoe interrupt I never did get the rhythm of, but I got enough healing off to win. I'm sure others have a different perspective. I think I'd find Theradras most irritating as a tank but I could be off on that; never tanked any of them.

 

The idea from an RP perspective (I play on an RP server and GM an RP centered guild) is that the Twilight Hammer cult, the same group that was trying to bring about the return of C'thun, is working to bringing a new round of anarchy and terror. they have been doing doomsday cult stuff in the major cities (TB, Org, SW and IF) that have led to the elemental incursions, all the while the earthquakes are continuing to grow in frequency and intensity. I think the idea is to cause enough chaos to render resistance ineffective or at least disorganized.

 

Scuttlebutt (unconfirmed last I checked), is that the world changes drop in a week. Get your ZG runs in now, cause it will be gone forever either as of 4.03a or when Cata launches the first week of December.

[Emperor]

Lich King once again kicked our butts last night. Our first attempt was by far our best. If we could master the Valkrys I think we would be golden.

 

So I was on a mission this weekend to gain Justice Points. I thought it would be genius to upgrade my gear to the top stuff thus increasing my GS by 100 points. Then I thought better of it. Why not just hold those points for Cata gear. Yeah...

[Mulk]

if I could be so bold, what is it about the Valk's that is causing problems? Are they just not dying quick enough, or is someone near the edge getting picked up, or are they not being slowed?

[Canukistani]

umm..emp...cata gear will require different points. besides, the green quest rewards will be better then your epics.

[Verbal32]

if I could be so bold, what is it about the Valk's that is causing problems? Are they just not dying quick enough, or is someone near the edge getting picked up, or are they not being slowed?

 

Our group compostion is the issue. We have only 1 pally, and many druids. The droods don't have a good stun. So the problem is on multiple angles - not enough hard stuns, we aren't downing the Valks quick enough, and when chaos ensues, people are near the ledge when they are grabbed.

 

We can reasonably enter phase 2 with all 10 at full health. The defile isn't causing many problems, but those Valks are. Also, the spirits aren't being DPSed fast enough, but we can deal with that better than the lack of stunnage.

 

We get phase 2 down well, and this fight is over. The rest we can handle without much problem.

 

I'm considering dropping down to 2 healers for this fight now. As a shaman, I can easily handle the entire melee group with chain heal, and also keep the add tank up myself. 1 other healer can help with the ranged/melee and cleanse.

 

At that point, phase 1.5 is a cakewalk to heal - and if we aren't in the defile, I think 2 spread out healers could handle phase 2 without much difficulty.

 

What do you think, Emp? Wanna give that a shot? You could go Shadow if you'd like, or stay and heal with me and we have Mhaya go Shadow (if she can).

[Mulk]

the main problem with 2-healing the Lich King comes when a healer gets picked up in Phase 2, or a healer gets harvested and transferred into Frostmourne in Phase 3. You're left with one healer to heal through Infest, Soul Reaper and the other normal damage. Just throwing that out there. It's easier in phase three without infest, but the vile spirits do a lot of damage too.

 

I'm gonna throw somethings out there that you probably know, but I have to check: do you have any DK's? Chains of Ice is awesome for that. Feral druids with infected wounds are also great; that is a decent slow. Arcane mage slow works. Warrior Hamstring works. Rogue cheapshot and a 5-point druid maim are also nice. You don't want to use short stuns, they basically go immune to them after the third stun, so you need long term slow up first. If you have to, have a rogue do a weapon swap to a weapon with crippling poison on it prior to any and all valks - slowing it is more important than the dps the rogue loses to the poison change. Hunter frost trap will work if you can get it to proc. Blade twisting from rogues helps some. There is a maximum to how much you can slow it down, but overlap is great in case one of your primary slow/stunners is picked up.

 

Anyone near the edge in the seconds before a valk spawn is doing it wrong; it really is that simple. Constructive criticism is in order for whomever is guilty of that. Defile can cause some long run backs if it is dropped in a bad place, but choosing to loop around the edge if there is a non-edge way to do it is wrong. A great gathering landmark is Tirion's iceblock. Default to standing center across from that when at all possible.

 

Third phase pointer: if you're having trouble dpsing the valks, you have no shot to kill the spirits in phase 3, so just spread the heck out so you don't get people chain nuked and keep dps on the boss. Melee have to split up once the spirits start coming down out of the sky. If you master phase 2, phase 3 is easy by comparison. Keep hope up. :)

[Verbal32]

the main problem with 2-healing the Lich King comes when a healer gets picked up in Phase 2, or a healer gets harvested and transferred into Frostmourne in Phase 3. You're left with one healer to heal through Infest, Soul Reaper and the other normal damage. Just throwing that out there. It's easier in phase three without infest, but the vile spirits do a lot of damage too.

 

I'm gonna throw somethings out there that you probably know, but I have to check: do you have any DK's? Chains of Ice is awesome for that. Feral druids with infected wounds are also great; that is a decent slow. Arcane mage slow works. Warrior Hamstring works. Rogue cheapshot and a 5-point druid maim are also nice. You don't want to use short stuns, they basically go immune to them after the third stun, so you need long term slow up first. If you have to, have a rogue do a weapon swap to a weapon with crippling poison on it prior to any and all valks - slowing it is more important than the dps the rogue loses to the poison change. Hunter frost trap will work if you can get it to proc. Blade twisting from rogues helps some. There is a maximum to how much you can slow it down, but overlap is great in case one of your primary slow/stunners is picked up.

 

Anyone near the edge in the seconds before a valk spawn is doing it wrong; it really is that simple. Constructive criticism is in order for whomever is guilty of that. Defile can cause some long run backs if it is dropped in a bad place, but choosing to loop around the edge if there is a non-edge way to do it is wrong. A great gathering landmark is Tirion's iceblock. Default to standing center across from that when at all possible.

 

Third phase pointer: if you're having trouble dpsing the valks, you have no shot to kill the spirits in phase 3, so just spread the heck out so you don't get people chain nuked and keep dps on the boss. Melee have to split up once the spirits start coming down out of the sky. If you master phase 2, phase 3 is easy by comparison. Keep hope up. :)

 

Good point on Frostmourne for p3. We might just need a swing healer for that instance.

 

Some answers:

 

-no DKs (ever)

-2 feral druids (3 including MT)

-no mages (usually)

-no warrior (ever)

-1 rogue

-1 or 2 hunters

 

We even have a rotation for stunning, but I don't think slows are being used to their maximum effectiveness. I don't know for sure, as I'm healing, but sometimes the valks slow down, and sometimes they don't. I think the problem is our group is a bit light on DPS compared to some other groups. We have another pally that sometimes shows who is our top DPS, but otherwise 1 of the hunters is tops. And by tops I'm talking about 5-6k range DPS.

 

Here is our common group comp:

 

MT = bear druid

OT = pally

mDPS = rogue, feral druid, feral druid

rDPS = hunter, various (hunter, pally, mage)

Heals = shaman, holy priest, holy priest

 

Some notes: we've had as many as 5 druids in our group before - our guild is druid heavy. We have no pally healers. We have no DKs, ever. Same with warlocks & warriors.

 

Our optimal group is when the OT pally switches to his resto druid, and Emp goes shadow. He has solid DPS and doesn't make dumb DPS mistakes, and the resto druid is our guild's best healer. At that point, another druid comes in as our OT, who is the MT for our guild's top 10-man unit and the RL wherever he goes.

 

That group downed Valithria, Putricide, and Sindragosa so easily that I felt like I cheated. If we could get that group a bunch of shots at Arthas, I think we could down him in 1 or 2 play sessions.

[Mulk]

your dps numbers are probably the primary issue then; top dps in the lightest dps group I'm running with right now is 9k - with the 30% buff dps really ought to be higher. I can help out with feral dps, but on the rest I'm lost - the only things I'm good at in game are pally healing and druid feralling (tank or dps); I'm a halfway decent moonkin and tree as well, but nowhere near as good as I am at kitty. The last group I killed the LK with I was low man on the totem pole at 9300 - that group was mostly 264 geared outside myself, though, so their numbers would be higher than a fully 10-man group.

 

Anyway, the low dps is a chain reaction issue: it's causing the phases to last too long, which chains into more chances for things to go wrong, such as not killing a valk in time. Gotta catch the bus, I'll try to post a couple of thoughts later, but with multiple ferals and a rogue valks SHOULD be slowed enough to kill them.

[Canukistani]

I think our group needs more gear.

 

Once Cata hits and the quest rewards are better then our epics are we going to keep trying? because i want to.

[Silver]

Huh, so the cracking of the world is happening today apparently. Cata just has 2 new races, higher level cap and some new end game content.

 

http://kotaku.com/5696731/the-patch-that-changes-world-of-warcraft-forever?skyline=true&s=i

[Emperor]

We did much better last night with another pally and myself as Shadow dps. I could slow the valks with Mind Flay and we actually had little issue with the valks when we established a good stun order. Our problem last night was defile. Our raid awareness is weak.. and there are a few people that kept helping us wipe. With that said we are improving every night and I think we make it past phase two on wednesday... well.. depending on the raid make up.

 

 

Canuk - thanks for the heads up on the gear. I was under the impression from chats I saw in Dragon guild chat that the new gear would also use justice points. Since that is not the case I will focus on upgrading any gear I can.

[Verbal32]

Crap. If Wed is our next raid day, I won't be there. But I agree with Canuk in that if we can't down Arthas by the time Cata hits, then we keep trying with the improved gear.

 

I'll feel better if we can do it without the 81+ quest gear, but KS is KS.

 

At this point, I'm starting to get sick of wiping. Granted some of them were just wrong button hits or random accidents/bad luck, but like you said Emp, some were just bad raid awareness. That last run before I had to go was shaping up to be *the* one. We were a few valks into phase 2 without any issues. No deaths, everybody at full health. Then 3 seconds later and the raid is wiped due to defile covering the whole platform. UGH!

 

My limited time online is just raiding, and I'm going broke because of it. If we don't kill LK soon, I might take a raiding break and make some money, fish/cook, get some cool titles and/or mounts, and otherwise enjoy the game. Hell, I STILL don't have Artisan Flying.

[Mulk]

Canuk: more gear always helps. It is likely, though, that you are sporting close to full 251 with a smattering of 264 bought by badges or justice points after a couple of months or so in ICC (the time frame is an assumption, but I think it's a good one). If not, ignore me on that and knock a thousand or so off my estimates. That gear should translate to 6500-9k dps. So probably your group just needs a little work on the rotation/priority lists that you use so that you generate more damage.

 

Emp: good to hear. Really, Defile was always the killer for my raids and specifically, the second Defile/Valk combo, which comes so close together you can't always predict which one will go off first. Unfortunately raid awareness only comes with practice, so keep chewing the glass and keep hope up. Tunnel vision is really hard to avoid in that fight. The fight is hard, hard enough that one mistake wipes you. Anyone who says otherwise is conveniently forgetting the glass chewing it took them to get there, or joined a group already clearing it.

 

Re: Cata - world changes drop today. No flight yet, no new races, but the new class combos (i.e gnome priest or troll druid) are open for rolling or race change and I believe the new starter areas for gnomes and trolls are in effect. I believe the changes to the Loremaster achievement and anything else affected by the world changes also are in effect today. New zones (Uldum, Deepholm, Vash'jir, Mount Hyjal and Twilight Highlands) are not open for play. Not sure if the updated Deadmines and Shadowfang (I had heard the lowbie instances are getting an update along with the level 85 heroic version) are in effect yet.

 

/sad salute for Zul'Gurub. I loved that raid, spent entirely too much time there. Really gonna miss it.

 

The only world change I didn't like was Azshara. I love the rest of it. I look forward to seeing what you all have to say about them. :)

[Vanion]

Bah! God damnit! I just got sucked back into WoW and I am loving every second of it!

 

I blame you Empy..! Now I'll have to get my pally to lvl 85 from 62... and much better gear... then slap you with a big hammer...!

 

You still on the Sen'jin server?

[Mulk]

addictive, ain't it? I got hooked in May of 2005. Started on a paladin. Then rolled a Horde Druid. Now it's hard sometimes to imagine not playing, I've made so many friends.

[Emperor]

DPS is an issue with us. Our top dps is 7500ish... and sometimes he has to hold back because he takes aggro off the tank. When I am dpsing I am the lowest... but I am in healing gear (plan to rectify that though) and I am also cleansing (takes me out of shadow each time) and killing orbs (takes me off the spirits). I am doing about 5K - 6K otherwise. Most of our dps is between 6 and 7 though. So yeah, if our dps were all cranking 9k we would avoid a valk or two but really this isn't an issue if people would pay attention. We have DBM spamming and skulls over your head when defile is coming... it isn't that hard. If you have your volume on you know when a valk is coming and understand when to switch targets.

 

I know our group can do it. I still have fun raiding even though we wipe every time.

 

Looking forward to going home and checking cata changes.

[Emperor]

Vanion, yes we are all on Senjin except Q-Aiel... who I wish was with us cause I am growing quite fond of him.

[Mulk]

thankee. :) I'm on Earthen Ring, as it happens. I have way too many friends on ER to move from there but I might roll up an alt to poke you all from time to time. I'll throw my dual mains up for your use should you ever want to find me there.

 

Horde

Mulkanus - druid

 

Alliance

Aeryck - paladin

 

Mulk (and most people on server who know me call me by that name, no matter what character I'm on) is in an RP guild, though I have raided and pvped on him quite a bit. He's also the only one I chase achievements on - I think I'm around 8200 at this point. I have a second druid ally side that I rolled to join the only raid guild I was interested in last year, and that's how I got to clear Lich King so early, not to mention getting to do all of hard-mode Ulduar and the like. :) Was great fun, but stressful and once I was working again I didn't have the time anymore. Aeryck is my original WoW character, and my second 60, 70 and 80. He's a full-bore healer that I use to do a lot of stuff with some casually oriented friends of mine, whether it be raid, pvp or questing. We got stuck on the Lich King a couple of months back, and then RL kinda dropped a bomb on us and we've not raided together in some time. I've got a couple of other 80s plus a 70 DK and a smattering of other alts.