Galina Casban

[EmperorAllspice]

Why?

 

I've been getting more and more aggravated by this and I just had to vent somewhere. (well, I've already vented but it wasn't enough)

 

What's the point of this character? I'll paste what I wrote on another thread here.

 

"I truly don't get what RJ wants from me with regards to her. I can't help but respect her for being a successful Black Ajah head for years and years, and from standing up to the Aiel's torture for as long as she did, not to mention being able to formulate a functional escape plan despite being magically compelled to be a person's devout slave. She is the UNDERDOG here, so I honestly don't know if I'm meant to enjoy watching her suffer. He can't be expecting me to want her to escape, because that's never going to happen in a million goddamn years. And even if she did, there's nothing good waiting for her back at the tower. I hardly think it's meant to be considered tragic. She hasn't been given any affable personality traits to make her at all sympathetic beyond the villainous valour she's been displaying."

 

Maybe this is just unique to me (I honestly feel alone in lots of things), but I CAN'T enjoy watching a bad person suffer if they're weak and powerless. Which she has been for BOOKS at this point! Hell, I don't like seeing bad people suffer. period. However, surely the appeal for those who do comes from the satisfaction one gets from dragging an arrogant person down and giving them a taste of their own medicine? My problem with this here is twofold: 1. Villains who have done MUCH worse than Galina in this series have gotten off with a relatively quick death (Rahvin) and 2. She tortured Rand, fair enough, but surely the punishment has to be proportionate to the crime, elsewise it's just cruel sadism. MAking a character weak and pathetic only makes what they're capable of doing that much more impressive to me. It actually makes Galina ADMIRABLE to me.

 

Random note, but Galina also came up with a plan that successfully captured The Dragon Reborn! And yet loads of the places I frequent have the gall to call her "stupid"

 

On TV tropes there's a term called "Shoot the Shaggy Dog" which means "A story in which the protagonist dies and his or her efforts are rendered pointless" Now, I get the distinct feeling that this is going to be Galina's fate and it makes me want to vomit. Now, most of the time a Shoot the Shaggy Dog story is aiming to make some kind of point. It's a bold statement to end something so unsatisfyingly. So I posit, what purpose does Galina's story serve?

 

It's a classic "fall from grace" tale of a woman going from having everything to being little more than dirt. The problem is that this story has already been done before in this series. On both sides of the morality spectrum. Siuan Sanche for team light and Mogehdien for team shadow. Surely there's no reason to rehash this with ANOTHER character?

 

 

[szilard]

(I have no answer to your question but) I TOTALLY agree with you.

[csarmi]

The point was yet another woman tortured.

[Graendals favourite]

I think here we see a classic case of a sociopath, in Galina. She deserves no pity. Remember, she had Rand tortured solely because he caused Erian to feel sorrow so Galina could not admire her face on the way back to Tar Valon, this is explicitly expressed. Such people exist and are not worth more thought than to know they exist so one remembers they probably warrant what's coming at them, though they invariably guise it somehow. This is also a Darkfriend we are talking about.

[EmperorAllspice]

I think here we see a classic case of a sociopath, in Galina. She deserves no pity. Remember, she had Rand tortured solely because he caused Erian to feel sorrow so Galina could not admire her face on the way back to Tar Valon, this is explicitly expressed. Such people exist and are not worth more thought than to know they exist so one remembers they probably warrant what's coming at them, though they invariably guise it somehow. This is also a Darkfriend we are talking about.

That's fair enough for you, I guess.

 

I'm not gonna get angry at a villain for being VILLAINOUS though. It just isn't in me. I even said that. I cannot get angry at villains. So I certainly feel no satisfaction in perpetual repetitive torture.

 

and even if she isn't deserving of pity that doesn't mean her showing ingenuity in a bad situation isn't admirable.

[Rhienne]

I think perhaps her purpose is meant to be the connection between her decision to torture Rand (and her plans to/or knowledge of plans to enslave/subdue/treat him pretty badly once they returned with him to the White Tower) and her own treatment at the hands of the Aiel.  You see her suffering and miserable, humiliated, beaten, etc., which is essentially what she did to Rand, but we never see her reflect on this.  Galina is so lacking in empathy that even when she experiences similar treatment to that which she oversaw inflicted on another she is incapable of reflecting that that torture, etc. is wrong in general, only that it is wrong when levelled against herself.  

 

Its a very blunt and extreme example of some of the White Tower's issues with regards to the different standards it feels entitled to compared to the the standards it treats everyone else by.  

[Graendals favourite]

I point there, I think, is also that her thoughts did not change a whit during her trials. She would have done the same things all over again, nothing to be done. If anything, I hope she and Therava survived the last battle, the shame of missing it on Therava's part, Galina would not, it would not register to her, so Galina could be tormented all her life, because free she would torment others.

 

And Therava of course was one who agreed to murder Desaine, at Sevanna's behest, so she's no angel she is. they deserve each other's company.

[EmperorAllspice]

I point there, I think, is also that her thoughts did not change a whit during her trials. She would have done the same things all over again, nothing to be done. If anything, I hope she and Therava survived the last battle, the shame of missing it on Therava's part, Galina would not, it would not register to her, so Galina could be tormented all her life, because free she would torment others.

 

And Therava of course was one who agreed to murder Desaine, at Sevanna's behest, so she's no angel she is.

Here's an idea: Why can't they BOTH die?

 

Rahvin died. Sammael died. Both guilty of crimes FAR IN EXCESS of Galina's, who also showed no remorse or changed mentalities

 

I think perhaps her purpose is meant to be the connection between her decision to torture Rand (and her plans to/or knowledge of plans to enslave/subdue/treat him pretty badly once they returned with him to the White Tower) and her own treatment at the hands of the Aiel.  You see her suffering and miserable, humiliated, beaten, etc., which is essentially what she did to Rand, but we never see her reflect on this.  Galina is so lacking in empathy that even when she experiences similar treatment to that which she oversaw inflicted on another she is incapable of reflecting that that torture, etc. is wrong in general, only that it is wrong when levelled against herself.  

 

Its a very blunt and extreme example of some of the White Tower's issues with regards to the different standards it feels entitled to compared to the the standards it treats everyone else by.  

See, I can buy that. That's probably the most reasonable defense o=I've heard. Everyone else just goes "SHE DESERVED IT!!"

 

... still think she's intelligent and I like her though. I guess I'm doomed to love characters who are going to suffer. -__-

[Graendals favourite]

The bad guys don't always die, and it's no joy for anyone to die.

 

Let them lie in their misery, then. Touching a hornet nest doesn't come into it touching that.

[EmperorAllspice]

The bad guys don't always die, and it's no joy for anyone to die.

 

Let them lie in their misery, then. Touching a hornet nest doesn't come into it touching that.

What part of "I DON'T LIKE WATCHING PEOPLE SUFFER" do you not understand.

 

If I had to choose between Galina suffering forever or dying. I'll take the latter. She's not going to harm anyone else either way.

[Graendals favourite]

I understand but you'll see it sooner or later. Well as Lan said, in New Spring, it isn't good for you to see a death happen. You can't avoid seeing it, only yesterday I saw a 19 year old child who is likely to lose his eyesight in the next 5 years, hopefully some help to retinitis is found by that time. It's that this isn't a childrens' series, but covers all sorts of things. If you find it disagreeable, then that would prompt you to try to change them in the world. Just don't start with the sociopaths or psycopaths or the like, people have tried and it never helped, they just got better in their manipulation of others

[EmperorAllspice]

I understand but you'll see it sooner or later. Well as Lan said, in New Spring, it isn't good for you to see a death happen. You can't avoid seeing it, only yesterday I saw a 19 year old child who is likely to lose his eyesight in the next 5 years, hopefully some help to retinitis is found by that time. It's that this isn't a childrens' series, but covers all sorts of things. If you find it disagreeable, then that would prompt you to try to change them in the world. Just don't start with the sociopaths or psycopaths or the like, people have tried and it never helped, they just got better in their manipulation of others

I have NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE ON ABOUT.

 

I read to enjoy a story. Not to be inspired to help out psychopaths.

[Graendals favourite]

Good for you! I get a bit overexited sometimes, and know I got a few hours to think on Galina. I prefer to think about something more pleasant.

 

Ah to the last, everything done causes something else. You cannot read even a news page without that affecting how you think about things, the change may be minute but it there, and if you make a conscious effort not to read that page, you will remember that effort at least the rest of the day. Psycopaths seem to be incurable.

[EmperorAllspice]

Good for you! I get a bit overexited sometimes, and know I got a few hours to think on Galina. I prefer to think about something more pleasant.

 

Ah to the last, everything done causes something else. You cannot read even a news page without that affecting how you think about things, the change may be minute but it there, and if you make a conscious effort not to read that page, you will remember that effort at least the rest of the day. Psycopaths seem to be incurable.

... I'm losing my mind.

 

I have no idea what's going on in this conversation anymore. Someone help me!

[Graendals favourite]

Looking at these kind of people, sociopaths, might cost you some 10 years of your life, and your relationships, and propably at the end you will likely not know more than now. Choose any other interest and it's more rewarding.

[Graendals favourite]

They are of course a vast minority of the population.