A Song of Fire & Ice Book Discussion Thread (Up To Dance With Dragons)

[Guest Karana Majin]

Your theory has some merit, and it would certainly be a shocker!

 

Personally, I'd like to see Tyrion be the 3rd head... reference his fascination with the dragons in the basement of the Red Keep and how it almost hypnotized him...

 

I dunno. Just personal preference because I love Tyrion so much.

[Dias]

I've always liked Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Robb, and Arya. Always disliked Sansa, Catelyn, Cersei, Tywin. Now like Jaime, Davos, and Damphair. Anyone else like Aeron Damphair? I think he's cool. There's a lot to him, I think, even with the little we've seen.

 

Tywin's death made me howl with laughter. That reminds me, I don't like Littlefinger. Too devious. Too clever for my liking.

 

I've always wondered... Syrio Forel, a Bravoosi (right?) was training Arya. Meryn Trant came, and Arya ran. Syrio stayed to fight him, but apparently didn't have a hope of winning. We never see Syrio again, and the assumption is that he dies. But when Arya is leaving the city (not sure how long afterwards, a week?), it's with Yoren from the Night's Watch and the men he picked up from the black cells. One of these men is chained (well, I think they all are...) up, Jaqen H'ghar. He later gives Arya the Braavos coin thing, and changes his face. He proved his worth as a fighter and stuff as well. Is it possible that Jaqen is Syrio?

 

Sorry if this has already been thought about and had its guts torn out or anything, I've never really read any speculation on the series. Any thoughts?

[Guest Karana Majin]

Actually, there is a lot of speculation about that very thing. I'm not sure how I feel... it would be almost too convenient, you know? *scratches head*

[ilgross]

IF Brieanne is dead, what was the point of here entire story line in A Feast for Crows?

 

It seems to me to be just filler if she is just going to die, and we know that the one thing this series doesn't need is more filler...

[Kadere]

Her point was a)to discover Sandor's death b) to kill Rorge c) to make it to the Quiet Isle and discover that both Arya and Sansa are (or were) alive d) killing Shagwell, Pyg, and Timeon e) meeting Lady Stoneheart/Catelyn f) turning her loyalty over to Jamie instead of Catelyn.

 

In the end Brienne is a tragic figure. Dispite overcoming all the hardships of her life and becoming a knight despite what other's think, she is ultimately killed for her honor and decency. GRRM's whole point with this character (and the series) is that the good guys don't always win, sometimes they are betrayed by their lords and hanged from trees, sometimes they are beheaded in an open square, and sometimes they get shot with arrows repeatedly during a wedding. Nothing in these books ever said "Oh Brienne is certain to find Sansa and save her from the hands of Littlefinger!" If that had actually happened we would all have been VERY dissappointed, because in reality things like that don't happen. Up until now the bad guys are winning and the good guys are either dying, or turning bad. GRRM is not about to give us a cutesy story about how the good knight's always win out, and the princesses are always saved. If he did that we'd all vomit on his books for being incredibly childish. Brienne died because good people can die. If you want a series where the good guy always wins, you're looking at the wrong author.

[Guest Cadsuane]

Great thread! I really should check the General boards more often...

 

I like Arya, Bran, Tyrion, Brienne, Jaimie, and (surprisingly) the new Sansa. I also liked the Dog while he was alive, he was such an interesting character study.

 

I hated Joffrey, and Catelyn is irritating, but not as bad as her sister. *gags* And I like Jon less after AFFC than I did previously.

 

Oh, and I had NO IDEA that Jon might be Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, but I love it! All that stuff about Ned remembering Lyanna saying "promise me, Ned" on her deathbed makes me think he promised to take care of Jon no matter what. I was always a little foggy on what she meant, and I had assumed he meant take her back to Winterfell, but this is so much juicier! I always thought he would marry Dany, so we shall see about that...

[Kadere]

I feel sad for this thread. I think it's died.

[Guest Karana Majin]

Well, it's been my experience that a lot of threads die around 4-6 pages. I think it's because people run out of new things to say without prodding, and people who haven't read it are intimidated or lazy to start reading a long multi-page thread. So, no new blood comes into the discussion.

[Kadere]

True. It's sad because they're SO good. Just so you know I DID buy that copy of A Game of Thrones (WOOT!). So does anybody else not believe that George is going to make his 2006 deadline for A Dance of Dragons"? I mean I REALLY want that book, and I know it's about half done, and it's probably because we haven't had an update of the progress for 4 months, but I still don't see it being completed. I hope I'm wrong though. I really want to know what's happening to Bran, Jon, Tyroin, and Stannis. And I REALLY want to read those chapters he's going to add at the end for Cersei, Asha, and Arya.

[Dias]

New topics then?

 

Ben Stark - Coldhands?

 

The horn Jon found with all the Dragonglass down in that hole that Ghost led him to (...wait, is that his Direwolf's name? I can't remember... oh the shame) - is that the Horn of Winter or whatever it was called, the one Mance Rayder was searching for, the one that could bring down the Wall?

 

Any possible connection between this horn and the one Euron Crow's Eye acquired, the one capable of controlling dragons? By the way, that horn was so sinister.... it charred the lungs of the man that blew it! Blisters around his mouth afterwards, died later! He was cut open, his lungs found black... that thing is damn evil! Any speculations on how it works exactly, or who'll end up using it (if) on Dany/her dragons?

[Lord Bloodraven]

There would be a few people who know the truth about Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark being Jon Snow's paremts. mainly the crannogman Howland Reed, who was the only other person besides Eddard to survive the Tower of Joy. Ned was with Lyanna when she died, and Howland had to pull her out of his arms. seeing as she likely died from giving birth, then the infant Jon had to be around somewhere, and Howland could've just put two and two together. The three kingsguard at the Tower of Joy most definitely knew, especially Ser Arthur, as he was supposed to be one of Rhaegar's closest friends.

Then we have the wet nurse Wylla, who also nursed Edric Dayne, Ser Arthur's nephew. So yeah, there are a couple of people who are likely knowing the truth

[Guest oos]

Umm, I'm in the middle of A Clash of Kings atm, should I be avoiding this thread like the plague?

 

The books are great so far tho :D

[Kadere]

Depends on how much you want revealed. Most of our discussions consist of things up through A Feast for Crows.

 

I don't think that the horn Jon found is the horn they were looking for. That would be too easy. That horn Euron found though could be the right one. I was just thinking about it, and I'm probably horribly off, but think about it. To bring down the wall is going to take some serious heat, and what's hotter then Dragon's breath? They would melt that sucker in no time!

 

Personally I think this series is going to end with Dany triumphant, so my guess would be that somehow one of her guys gets a hold of it, or maybe Victorian will steal it from Euron and give it to Dany after meeting her and going to her side.

[Niamh Sedai]

I am desperately hoping for an early 2007 release. I don't think it'll be released this year as much as I'd like it to be. But hopefully is should be out *crosses fingers* by the end of 2007.

 

I'm not sure about Ben Stark being Coldhands. There is definately something more to his disappearance but I'm not fully convinced that Coldhands is it. We need to get to the Bran Chapters really to find out.

[Guest Karana Majin]

I'm pretty sure Coldhands IS Ben Stark... for sure he is some Night's Watch man. I'd like to find out more about him, he's one of the cooler mysteries of the series that hasn't been revealed yet.

[Dias]

If it was me and I was just reading Clash of Kings now, yes, I would avoid this thread like the plague. THE PLAGUE!

 

I don't think the horn Jon found being the Horn of Winter is too easy... as I remember it, he found it around the time they first went to the Fist of the First Men. Actually, my details of all this north stuff are pretty hazy, but i don't think there was any mention of Mance looking for this horn for a long time after that. I don't even remember how Jon ended up climbing that moutain and going off with the Halfhand and the others ended up defending the Fist against the wights and the Others...

 

Anyone care to refresh my memory?

 

And what was the Tower of Joy?

[Kadere]

I think GRRM should update his website. I'm really sick of that Update from the end of January, and the blog entree from the end of March. I want news. I'm an information junkiee and I need to know how the book is going.

 

I don't remember any Tower of Joy, but I pretty sure it was that Mormont wanted Halfhand and his men to check out the pass in the mountains to see if Jon's uncle had gone that way. While they were gone, in the Proluge to A Storm of Swords, the wights come down on the Fist and start slaughtering everyone, so Sam and company run.

 

While Jon climbed the mountian he ran into Ygrite (sp?) and ended up letting her go, she got the other Wildings, and brought them to Jon and Halfhand. Halfhand tell Jon to do whatever the Wildings ask of him, so Jon kills Halfhand and joins the Wildings (that's all in ACoK).

[Griggle]

Daenerys is my favorite so far. I like her story line. I like the way she has evolved. I don’t like that they eat horse though. I am really expecting this next book to have a lot to do with her. I also think she will ultimately rule the world!

 

I really hated the Hound and then really began to like him. I also really hated Ayra and then began to be interested in her story. I really like Gendry too, he reminds me of Perrin. I keep in mind that he is the kings son and the only one of his actual children that we meet, so maybe he is the Prince? Then the whole Jon thing… I dunno.

I also like Jaime. I do think that him and Brienne will get together. Its kinda funny that their roles are backwards though. It is usually the woman who is smart and beautiful and the man who is ugly and strong J Which means no I don’t think she is really dead.

- Who do you despise??

Cersi of course. No one makes me as angry as Catelyn though. When she told Jon it should have been him that fell. Grr. Then when she said that he could not be the Lord of Winterfell because he was a bastard. Grr.. I really hated that woman.

Samwell annoys me to no end, I cant even read his stuff without grimacing.

 

There are so MANY twists and turns in this series you must be paying attention to everything to catch it all!

[Kadere]

:shock: Samwell's just a poor fat guy! You can't hate a poor fat guy!

[Dias]

And besides, he's losing weight now!

[Mightelove]

And he's gotten some!

 

It's bound to get better from there!

 

:shock:

[Guest Karana Majin]

I really hated theI keep in mind that he is the kings son and the only one of his actual children that we meet' date=' so maybe he is the Prince?[/quote']

 

That's not true. Mya Stone, the mule girl who takes people up and down the mountain to the Eeyrie is also one of Robert's bastards.

[Kadere]

Along with that woman that hits on Gendry in the inn just before they bring The Hound in. That was one of the funniest scenes in the series for me.

[merlinspetrock]

Here is a tip to reading Martin. Don't believe everything you read as the truth. The Hound is not dead. For confirmation check out the guy on the Quiet Isle who is petting "Dog" and pay close attention to what the head priest says about his own turn to the faith and the death of the Hound to Brienne.

[merlinspetrock]

I don't even remember how Jon ended up climbing that moutain and going off with the Halfhand and the others ended up defending the Fist against the wights and the Others...

 

Anyone care to refresh my memory?

 

And what was the Tower of Joy?

 

Jon is sent off to range ahead with the Halfhand by the Lord Commander, and the Tower of Joy is where Rhaegar took Lyanna before all the fighting happened in Roberts Rebellion, also the place where Ned finds her after defeating the 3 Kingsguard. It is in the south somewhere close to Dorne.