Game of Thrones Discussion: Who should sit on the Iron Throne?

[SinisterDeath]

But Robert DOES have heirs ... Nominally Joffrey, Tommen and Marcella ...Truthfully, Stannis.

 

The issue with the succession does present an opportunity for upheaval and a revival of the Loyalists claim, (as has been seen), but it is just that "an opportunity", not necessarily a foregone conclusion. Even with a designated successor there is often war and bloodshed and rival claimants .. Stephen, Edward III, Richard II, Edward IV were all examples from English Monarchy where the was strife and turmoil despite legitimate successions. William I and Henry VII are examples where the legitimacy may have been in doubt and .conquest prevailed.

 

That's why its a war of succession.

And it goes to who ever has the strongest military, not who has the strongest claim.

Would you deny that?

 

At this point, its not about who has legal right to sit on the thrown, but who has the power to claim it. Stannis has just as much blood claim as Danny Does in my view (with dany having the strongest, from a technicality aspect). specially as Agitel Brought up, that Robert claimed his own blood line allowed him to take legal authority over the throne.

 

 

You can dispute that the Baratheons have any rightful claim to the Iron Throne but you cannot dispute that Stannis is heir to the lordship of his House.

 

Why would I deny that Stannis is the heir to the lordship of house Baratheon?

 

with house stark, with jon, rob, 'dead', and Bran off missing, and ricken no where to be found, presumed dead. by everyone, House stark falls to the next in line.. which would be sansa... however, if she disappears, than it would fall back to a former generation, a brother of Robs father, or a brother their father, ect. And that's all assuming, whoever takes over the kingdoms, doesn't just disband house stark all together.

 

 

Both Baratheon, Dany, and others have claims to the throne. Which house has the strongest blood claim?

I'd have to go with Dany, from the technicality point of view, and possibly legally. .

 

 

But again, its not about who is legally the heir of the throne. 

Its about who has the military might to take the throne.

Laws are meaningless if you don't have the power to back it up.

 

As for the heir angle for Robert... I can also compare it to Genghis Kahn. Had he died, and left his throne to his brother, instead of his heirs. The world probably wouldn't have seen a Mongol empire.

 

People have this strange notion that the children of great men, are Great. And that the brother of great men, are not inherently great people. When a brother to a king takes the throne, they are more likely to be challenged for it. Though even legit heirs, are likely to be challenged even by those without a legit claim to it. (isn't that, after all, half the reason for all the wars between France and Britain? Challenge a new Kings claim over his throne, with military might, If they can't repel a simple invasion, they aren't worthy of holding on to it to begin with?

[Nolder]

I agree with you absolutely. It only matters if you can take and control your territory with military force.

In that Stannis's claim is weak but if you want to talk about "ownership", until the throne is taken by force, then the Baratheons have the throne and the rightful heir is Stannis.

 

You can make the argument that the Lannisters have already taken the throne by force and that it's currently a Lannister controlled throne and that Stannis is just another rebel, same as Danaerys. I can accept that argument but if it's one of peaceful succession then again I think Stannis is the guy the throne would and should go to.

[AesSedaiGuy]

 

But Robert DOES have heirs ... Nominally Joffrey, Tommen and Marcella ...Truthfully, Stannis.

The issue with the succession does present an opportunity for upheaval and a revival of the Loyalists claim, (as has been seen), but it is just that "an opportunity", not necessarily a foregone conclusion. Even with a designated successor there is often war and bloodshed and rival claimants .. Stephen, Edward III, Richard II, Edward IV were all examples from English Monarchy where the was strife and turmoil despite legitimate successions. William I and Henry VII are examples where the legitimacy may have been in doubt and .conquest prevailed.

 

 

That's why its a war of succession.

And it goes to who ever has the strongest military, not who has the strongest claim.

Would you deny that?

 

 

I'm sure Stannis wants it to be a War of Succession, but I think it is a de facto rebellion, because Robert's nominal heir has succeeded to the throne. A War of Succession is when the "heir" is in doubt.

 

Other than that, I agree with what you're saying now ... But that does not seem to be what you were saying previously. :)

[Lilbaz]

Democracy anyone? Still stand by Lancel, but could there be a total shift?

[SinisterDeath]

 

 

But Robert DOES have heirs ... Nominally Joffrey, Tommen and Marcella ...Truthfully, Stannis.

The issue with the succession does present an opportunity for upheaval and a revival of the Loyalists claim, (as has been seen), but it is just that "an opportunity", not necessarily a foregone conclusion. Even with a designated successor there is often war and bloodshed and rival claimants .. Stephen, Edward III, Richard II, Edward IV were all examples from English Monarchy where the was strife and turmoil despite legitimate successions. William I and Henry VII are examples where the legitimacy may have been in doubt and .conquest prevailed.

 

That's why its a war of succession.

And it goes to who ever has the strongest military, not who has the strongest claim.

Would you deny that?

 

 

I'm sure Stannis wants it to be a War of Succession, but I think it is a de facto rebellion, because Robert's nominal heir has succeeded to the throne. A War of Succession is when the "heir" is in doubt.

 

Other than that, I agree with what you're saying now ... But that does not seem to be what you were saying previously. :)

 

I don't always find the best way to get across what I was meaning.

[AesSedaiGuy]

LoL