Nynaeve and Rhavin

[Viperswhip]

I've just reread the whole series in the last week or so. I told myself I wasn't going to, but then, I started and couldn't stop. Oh well.

 

Here's one thing that annoyed me this time around, more than any other. Not Nynaeve, not Rand, nobody acknowledges the role she played in killing Rhavin. In all her accomplishments, for which she does get credit from disparate parties, nobody gives her credit for this, Rand never thanks her, though we know he loves and appreciates her more than anyone else does, save for Lan himself.

 

Heck, when people talk about her on forums and whether they like or dislike her, I don't ever see this point raised either. She may have used Mogy's power, but she bravely went there hoping to help Rand, not knowing if there would be one or more Forsaken there.

 

I am a big fan of Nynaeve, and I want her to get credit for this eventually, I don't think she's even given credit to herself.

[Whizbang]

I see it similar as to when Mat and Birgette save each other at various points in Ebu Dar. Mat thanks her for saving his life, she shrugs. Then Mat saves her, and she thanks him and he shrugs. You thank the person for saving you, and certainly you hold them in high regard from then on, but there's not much to say. You might save them tomorrow, and they save you the next day, and so on. In a war, you might save each other many times. None of those times are any less heroic than the other, but you're both fighting for the same side. If one falls, the other will most likely fall shortly after. By saving your brother/sister in arms, you're saving yourself as well. Rand knows Nyn would save him if she at all had a choice in the matter, and Nyn knows Rand will do the same with her. Nyn saved him this time, sure, but Rand has also saved her, and everyone else in the world, a few times over.

 

Also, Rand was in his "have to be harder than the shadow" mode at the time. Moir had just died and Lan had given him is "thinking with the hair on his chest" pep-talk, and he'd just seen Mat and Avi die. This victory was a pretty shabby one at that point. Yes, Rhavin was dead, but so was Moiraine, Mat and Avi (heck, even Lanfear probably made it on Rand's list of "I blame myself for their deaths").

 

Yes, Nyn's accomplishment was truly heoric and amazing. She out TAR'd the Spider, captured her, then used her (not so much kicking and screaming, but whining and sniveling) to help defeat Rhavin. Awesomeness abounds, and when all is said and done, she should be made queen of Melkier, and have a Holdiay named after her. But, until then, there are still plenty of Forsaken, shadowspawn, darkfriends, Seanchan, and even the Dark One to take care of.

 

It is a feather in her cap to be sure, but hardly a turning point in the war. It is not even the fanciest feather in that cap.

[MasterAblar]

I've just reread the whole series in the last week or so. I told myself I wasn't going to, but then, I started and couldn't stop. Oh well.

 

Here's one thing that annoyed me this time around, more than any other. Not Nynaeve, not Rand, nobody acknowledges the role she played in killing Rhavin. In all her accomplishments, for which she does get credit from disparate parties, nobody gives her credit for this, Rand never thanks her, though we know he loves and appreciates her more than anyone else does, save for Lan himself.

 

Heck, when people talk about her on forums and whether they like or dislike her, I don't ever see this point raised either. She may have used Mogy's power, but she bravely went there hoping to help Rand, not knowing if there would be one or more Forsaken there.

 

I am a big fan of Nynaeve, and I want her to get credit for this eventually, I don't think she's even given credit to herself.

Well, like you said she herself never really thinks about it much. Her main accomplishement was outwitting Moghedien. Afterwards she just shows great courage in her willingness to involve herself in an extremely dangerous battle. But everyone knows she's as brave as anyone, and since she never maked any big deal out of it, no one really mentions it and Rand may not even be completely aware of what she did, considering he was struggling to just remain himself at that moment, not to mention being in the middle of a rage against Rahvin. Perhaps if she had singlehandedly defeated Rahvin people would make a bigger deal out of it, but as it is she basically just knifed him in the back, and even then he was about to retaliate. In fact thinking I wonder why didn't just slice his head off. She sort of went for the overkill by setting the whole hallway on fire. In the end her courage was the most impressive thing, but seeing as she's pretty much always brave, it sort gets forgotten.

[Whizbang]

RE: Not just cutting off his head (or other, more effective methods)

 

I see it that the Wheel forced her to not be as inventive/effective. There was no reason why she thought going to Caemlyn, in TAR, at that time, would have any affect on the battle with Rhavin. She had just learned from Mogi that Rhavin was planning on luring Rand there, but she didn't know any specifics. But she felt the need to go to Caemlyn anyway. Mogi points out the uselessness of doing so, but Nyn goes anyway, not even questioning it. Then she sets fire to the corridor, only thinking that it was a dumb thing to do when Rhavin turns on her.

 

The Wheel needed Rand to Balefire Rhavin so that Mat and Avi could live, but it also needed a way to distract Rhavin long enough for Rand to do so. So, it made Nyn temporarily stupid (I think this is the Wheel's favorite method for getting things done).

[Ozzie_aiel]

Makes sense, the only other person who really knew what she really did was Moghedien, and I doubt she'd run around telling everyone how brave and wonderful Nynaeve was.

[Viperswhip]

Well, Rand knows, he saw Rahvin (I misspelled his name in my post) bathed in fire that was not his own. I guess I would like some sort of acknowledgement there, and Nynaeve must have return to Salidar and told Elayne and the others what had happened.

[Ozzie_aiel]

Nynaeve wouldn't go around saying "I burnt Rahvin alive, helped Rand kill him, oh, and caught another forsaken." She'd probably think it, but downplay her own part in it when talking with others. And Rand didn't see what happened, he only saw the flames. As far as he knew it could've been anyone or anything

[Viperswhip]

She would have said that Rand killed Rahvin, Siuan and Elayne are smart enough to ask for detail there, and Rand is not so stupid to think, oh maybe Rahvin put himself on fire lol. Fire, then Nynaeve = Nynaeve lit him on fire. Rand is not stupid.

[Ozzie_aiel]

Suspicion is not truth, and with Moghedien there attached by an adam, and Rand being all dangerous, I doubt she wanted to hang around.

 

I agree she deserves a thanks for it, its one if the few times she steps up and isn't completely useless in the first 5 books.

[Entreri]

Nyaneve never gets the credit she deserves. I certainly agree she was very annoying in the earlier books.