Dark Prophecy from ToM

[cmsnaith]

In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning, and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come. Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

 

And then, shall the Lord of the Evening come. And He shall take our eyes, for our souls shall bow before Him, and He shall take our skin, for our flesh shall serve Him, and He shall take our lips, for only Him will we praise. And the Lord of the Evening shall face the Broken Champion, and shall spill his blood and bring us the Darkness so beautiful. Let the screams begin, O followers of the Shadow. Beg for your destruction!

 

Okay! I voted Perrin, and here's why:

 

When we read the first line of the prophesy here, we read about four different people. The One-Eyed Fool; this is Mat, and something terrible may happen to him in aMoL. The First Among Vermin; I take this to be Rand, who lifts his hand to break the Seals and bring freedom to the DO: Him who will Destroy. The Fallen Blacksmith's pride; this is not Perrin himself, but his pride. Perrin is indeed the Fallen Blacksmith, but this prophesy refers to his pride. And who is this but Faile? I believe this prophesies the death of Faile.

 

Due to Faile's death, this breaks Perrin. This makes him indeed the Broken Wolf, visited by Death. In his breaking, he will fall into despair, and be consumed by the Towers of Midnight, the forces of darkness (the Forsaken, or perhaps he is turned to the dark by a circle of 13). Indeed, Perrin himself said he'd make a deal with the devil to save Faile (from the Shaido). It may be that Faile is slain by (or at least made to appear as though she was slain by) someone on the good side (perhaps "Death" is a reveal concerning the one who will have killed Faile). Perrin's "fall" may be his fall from the Light, not his actual death.

 

The ensuing destruction that he causes will bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shake their will. I believe the excruciating long sequence of Faile's capture and freedom is a forshadowing of the single-minded devotion of Perrin for his wife. In her death, he will go crazy with despair.

 

Yes, I vote for Perrin.

 

You want to see the series go out with a bang, I think this series of events would certainly serve as a bang.

[Durinax]

for a second there I thought First Among Vermin to be egwene, afterall the forsaken refer to the AS as untrained children, vermin, and anything else that they think are inferior. But then I saw teh 'his hand' so that sucks

[FarShainMael]

Rand has called himself 'Rand Sedai'..

[Louise]

Fain for First Among Vermin?

The name would suit him if nothing more. :)

 

'the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy.' Refering to Fain's obsessive, self mutilation of his hand... maybe? Thats too strange not to mean something big. Could be a stretch but this has got me so stumped that at this point I'll take any connection, no matter how tenuous.

 

I'm very, VERY convinced that this line has more to it than meets the eye. In my opinion, it's not refering to the obviouus: Rand breaking the seals and freeing the DO. The rest of that verse is typically (and brilliantly) cryptic, why would that one line be straightforward?

[cmsnaith]

Since this is a Dark Prophesy, it's coming from the perspective of the Dark. They refer to followers of the Light as vermin, things to be stamped out. The First Among Vermin, it would seem to follow at face value, would be Rand, the Dragon Reborn, and leader of the forces of the Light, similar to the Nae'blis being the leader of the Shadow.

 

To my mind, "raises his hand" confirms this. First, in that Rand is male, and second in that Rand only has ONE hand, and the prophesy on this point is singular. Moreover, it is clear that Rand means to destroy the seals on the Dark One's prison, fitting with the rest of this part of the prophesy; that the First Among Vermin raises his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy.

 

The thing that finalizes in my mind that it is indeed Rand is this: that the other two Ta'veren (Mat and Perrin; the One-Eyed Fool and the Fallen Blacksmith), the greatest threats to the Shadow, are mentioned in the same line. To me, it makes sense that all three of them should be mentioned together, given that two of them already have been. Why mention two, and in-between allude to someone who COULD be the third, but isn't actually. To me that doesn't really make sense.

[Louise]

What of the Broken Champion then? I just don't like the idea of refering to one person by two differnt names in the same prophecy.

 

Also, even the he is a DF, Fain isn't all that popular with the Shadow, for example the Chosen wanting him dead. I'm just trying to think a little more left field seeing as so many things in WoT shouldn't be taken at face value.

[Louise]

The thing that finalizes in my mind that it is indeed Rand is this: that the other two Ta'veren (Mat and Perrin; the One-Eyed Fool and the Fallen Blacksmith), the greatest threats to the Shadow, are mentioned in the same line. To me, it makes sense that all three of them should be mentioned together, given that two of them already have been. Why mention two, and in-between allude to someone who COULD be the third, but isn't actually. To me that doesn't really make sense.

Where do you fit the Broken Wolf into this? There's FOUR people mentioned, not three.

[FarShainMael]

What of the Broken Champion then? I just don't like the idea of refering to one person by two differnt names in the same prophecy.

 

Also, even the he is a DF, Fain isn't all that popular with the Shadow, for example the Chosen wanting him dead. I'm just trying to think a little more left field seeing as so many things in WoT shouldn't be taken at face value.

 

But is it 'the same' prophecy? Or perhaps what we are shown is actually a compilation of separate prophecies, made at different times by different Foretellers?

[Louise]

What of the Broken Champion then? I just don't like the idea of refering to one person by two differnt names in the same prophecy.

 

Also, even the he is a DF, Fain isn't all that popular with the Shadow, for example the Chosen wanting him dead. I'm just trying to think a little more left field seeing as so many things in WoT shouldn't be taken at face value.

 

But is it 'the same' prophecy? Or perhaps what we are shown is actually a compilation of separate prophecies, made at different times by different Foretellers?

 

Oh I'm going with that idea! This prophecy is messing with my head.I like that option, it solves all the problems except the Broken Wolf but I can handle that

[cmsnaith]

I actually don't see a problem with referring to the same person twice in a prophesy by different names. For example, I take Lord of Evening and Him who will Destroy to be the DO. Using different names to refer to the same person merely gives you the ability to refer to different aspects of that same person within the context of the prophesy. For example, the second stanza of that prophesy, which mentions the One-Eyed Fool, First Among Vermin, etc... in this stanza, destruction is a common thread. "Him who will Destroy," "Fallen Blacksmith," "Broken Wolf," "Death," "shall fall," "be consumed," "Halls of Mourning," "his destruction," and "shake their very will." The whole feel of that second stanza is death and destruction. Therefore, it fits that the DO woul be described in a manner suiting this.

 

The final stanza in the prophesy refers to him as Lord of Evening. The emphasis here seems to be his Lordship, his rulership. The followers of the Dark bowing down to him and being his. "He will take our eyes..." "our souls will bow before him..." "He will take our skin..." "our flesh shall serve him..." "He will take our lips..." "him will we praise..." It speaks of his victory of the Broken Champion, which hails in his final victory and Lordship. "O followers of the Shadow..." "Beg..."

 

The themes of the two stanzas are entirely different. The first refers to the destruction preceding his impending victory, the second refers to his actual victory. Due to the thematic differences, the DO is named differently.

 

This is the same concerning the DR. First Among Vermin. Vermin are rodents, carrion, disease-carriers, things associated with death. A connotation relating to vermin is that they aught to be destroyed, stamped out, eradicated. Calling the DR First Among Vermin suits the theme of the stanza very well.

 

Calling him the Broken Champion in the next stanza also suits very well, since the second stanza is about the victory of the Dark over the Light, heralding in the absolute Lordship of the DO over all. If the Broken Champion defeats the DO, he heralds in the victory of the Light, as he is the Champion of the Light. Championship is associated with victory, and at the same time, servitude. A champion is a champion for something or someone, acting in service of that thing, or person. The language here is excellent.

 

I assert, referring to one person in more than one way in a single prophesy is perfectly viable.

 

Going back to the Broken Wolf, I continue to assert that this is Perrin.

 

Again, in the first line of the stanza, he is called Fallen Blacksmith. I believe he is called Blacksmith, not merely because of his profession, but because of the nature of his role as Ta'veren in this Final Battle. I believe he will be pivotal in repairing the damage done to the Pattern. The first stanza names all three Ta'veren, not coincidentally.

 

Consider: Mat symbolizes Randomness, while Perrin symbolizes Order. Rand is something like a synthesis of the two, but he is the Spirit that guides and unites. He is both insane and sane. Depending on which way he bends, his presence can assert chaos, or order. He is the knife on which everything balances. He is the leader, the First.

 

Here, these roles are emphasized. Mat is the Fool; Fool being (at least to my mind) characterized as a Jester, a court Clown, which in cards (and cards should be understood as being the real reference here as he is called the "One-eyed" Fool, and in cards, all face cards are either One-eyed or Two-eyed) is the Wild Card, the unknown, the random variable. Perrin is the Blacksmith; the Creator, the Maker, the Solver of Puzzles, the Order-bringer. And Rand is the First, the Leader, the one who will Guide and Unite, the Champion, the General and Ruler. These, to me, are the natures of their Ta'veren-ness. And it is the falling of these Ta'veren that is being cited in the first part of this stanza.

 

Mat walks the halls of Mourning, the last days of the Perrin's pride, Rand raises his hand to free the DO.

 

The second line, IMO, continues from where the first line leaves off: with Perrin. The last days of the Blacksmith's pride are come. As I've said previously, I believe this means to prophesy the death of Faile. The second line continues this vein, and the nature of Perrin has changed from being the Blacksmith, to being a Broken-Wolf, and a Wolf for the Shadow, at that. He falls from the Light, is consumed by the Shadow, and his destruction shakes the very wills of men. His destruction should cause this, as he is the order-bringer.

 

But this of course has been foreshadowed. Perrin said he'd make a deal with the devil to save Faile.

[Terez]

As an aside, I noticed the other day when browsing 13th Depository that Linda also agrees Rand is the Broken Wolf. She and I disagree on a lot of prophecies, but not that one.

[cmsnaith]

Also as an aside, I had thought, initially, that the Broken Wolf was Padan Fain, as he is the Dark One's hound, and if any hound has been broken, it's him. He's certainly been known by death. Mordeth, perhaps?

 

However, it is this reference to Death, with the possibility that it is Mordeth, rather than Moridin, that further leads me to believe that the Broken Wolf is Perrin, as his whole family was slaughtered by the White Cloaks, under the influence and direction of Fain.

[Louise]

Randlander... well said. I think you've turned me around on the matter.

 

Broken Wolf: Though yours is a good theory, I think I prefer Rand for that title. He fits the "And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself" line better than Perrin does. Whether you translate destruction to mean death, fall from light (I prefer that option myself) or pretty much anything else, Rand would have a much greater effect on the hearts and will of men. The DR is known to everyone (and more importantly is the Light's savior), Perrin not so much. His death would hurt a selct group of people but IMO not a great enough portion to warrant that prophecy. Rand's fall from light would cause fear, panic and devastation right across Randland.

[cmsnaith]

Louii, I would be inclined to agree with you, and indeed it is that very part of the prophesy that could sway me, except that I've just never seen Rand as a wolf.

 

I guess the argument could be made though. If one considers the characteristics of the wolf, within the context of Randland, Rand could be said to fit these characteristics. First, Wolves remember their previous lives. This is true of Rand. It is also true of Mat. Who this is not true of, interestingly enough, is Perrin. Perhaps this is because he is clearly a wolf and it is not necessary to draw this connection. Second, wolves live in Tel'aran'rhiod. Rand can enter TAR in the flesh using the power. Yet, in this sense, Egwene would be more of a wolf than Rand. Perrin obviously has this characteristic. Mat obviously does not. Then there is the third, really distinct feature of wolves, and that is their ability to communicate telepathically, so to speak. In a sense, all three Ta'veren have developed this ability with each other. In the more recent books they have begun to see images of each other whenever they think of one another. True images, of what they are doing exactly at that moment. It isn't true 'telepathy' in the sense of the wolves, and how Perrin can communicate with them, but it may be a reflection of it.

 

I suppose in these senses, all three Ta'veren could be argued to be wolves. Yet, Perrin is clearly a wolf, unlike any of the others. Indeed, the Seanchan even have a prophecy regarding him. He is the Wolf King. Perrin communicates with Wolves. He has the yellow eyes of Wolves. He walks the Wolf Dream. He acts like a Wolf. He's taken on the feral characteristics of Wolves (i.e., his increasing love of raw meat). He is called the Wolf King by the Seanchan. He has called Wolves to battle. Everything about Perrin screams Wolf.

 

I just can't justify, in comparison to Perrin, calling Rand a Wolf.

[Terez]

Louii, I would be inclined to agree with you, and indeed it is that very part of the prophesy that could sway me, except that I've just never seen Rand as a wolf.

 

I guess the argument could be made though. If one considers the characteristics of the wolf, within the context of Randland, Rand could be said to fit these characteristics. First, Wolves remember their previous lives. This is true of Rand. It is also true of Mat. Who this is not true of, interestingly enough, is Perrin. Perhaps this is because he is clearly a wolf and it is not necessary to draw this connection. Second, wolves live in Tel'aran'rhiod. Rand can enter TAR in the flesh using the power.

He even has a reflection in Tel'aran'rhiod like a wolf in TOM, which makes him more wolfy than even Perrin. But if you want to know about wolf connections, go to the FAQ link in my sig and read the Dark Prophecy page > TOM prophecy > Broken Wolf. It's subtle, but solid, and I think the terminology is meant to be a red herring. If they hadn't used that red herring, we'd know too much about the last book.

[Dream]

Louii, I would be inclined to agree with you, and indeed it is that very part of the prophesy that could sway me, except that I've just never seen Rand as a wolf.

 

I guess the argument could be made though. If one considers the characteristics of the wolf, within the context of Randland, Rand could be said to fit these characteristics. First, Wolves remember their previous lives. This is true of Rand. It is also true of Mat. Who this is not true of, interestingly enough, is Perrin. Perhaps this is because he is clearly a wolf and it is not necessary to draw this connection. Second, wolves live in Tel'aran'rhiod. Rand can enter TAR in the flesh using the power.

He even has a reflection in Tel'aran'rhiod like a wolf in TOM, which makes him more wolfy than even Perrin. But if you want to know about wolf connections, go to the FAQ link in my sig and read the Dark Prophecy page > TOM prophecy > Broken Wolf. It's subtle, but solid, and I think the terminology is meant to be a red herring. If they hadn't used that red herring, we'd know too much about the last book.

Oh, come on. How can "like a wolf" Rand be more wolfy than "actual wolf" Perrin? Let's not stretch it too far.

 

You keep to your convictions Randlander. I've had the same thoughts about the death of Faile and the submission of Perrin to the Lord of the Grave. I don't think this will come to pass, however. To me, Perrin's hammer Mah'alleinir represents stability and purity of purpose. While it would be cool to have Perrin turn to the Dark, it would sort of undo Perrin's character development in the ToM. Unless switching sides was only a pretense to get him close enough to the Bore to help "reforge" the prison. He'd have to do a lot of bad, bad things to be convincing though.

[Louise]

Louii, I would be inclined to agree with you, and indeed it is that very part of the prophesy that could sway me, except that I've just never seen Rand as a wolf.

 

I guess the argument could be made though. If one considers the characteristics of the wolf, within the context of Randland, Rand could be said to fit these characteristics. First, Wolves remember their previous lives. This is true of Rand. It is also true of Mat. Who this is not true of, interestingly enough, is Perrin. Perhaps this is because he is clearly a wolf and it is not necessary to draw this connection. Second, wolves live in Tel'aran'rhiod. Rand can enter TAR in the flesh using the power. Yet, in this sense, Egwene would be more of a wolf than Rand. Perrin obviously has this characteristic. Mat obviously does not. Then there is the third, really distinct feature of wolves, and that is their ability to communicate telepathically, so to speak. In a sense, all three Ta'veren have developed this ability with each other. In the more recent books they have begun to see images of each other whenever they think of one another. True images, of what they are doing exactly at that moment. It isn't true 'telepathy' in the sense of the wolves, and how Perrin can communicate with them, but it may be a reflection of it.

 

I suppose in these senses, all three Ta'veren could be argued to be wolves. Yet, Perrin is clearly a wolf, unlike any of the others. Indeed, the Seanchan even have a prophecy regarding him. He is the Wolf King. Perrin communicates with Wolves. He has the yellow eyes of Wolves. He walks the Wolf Dream. He acts like a Wolf. He's taken on the feral characteristics of Wolves (i.e., his increasing love of raw meat). He is called the Wolf King by the Seanchan. He has called Wolves to battle. Everything about Perrin screams Wolf.

 

I just can't justify, in comparison to Perrin, calling Rand a Wolf.

The Veins of Gold moment. The wolves all flocked to Dragonmount and stood as almost a guard of honour as Rand fought the 'darkness'. They seem to highly respect him and the fact that they have given him a name, Shadowkiller, IMO implies that they have adopted him as a wolfbrother. I do also seem to recall a few other vague comparisons between Rand and a wolf but I can't remember one to quote it at the moment. Though, from memory, vague is an understatement.

Also when Rand visits the WT, I believe he tell Egwene: "I was broken" (not sure if thats exact but he definitely says Broken.) That in itself is really neither here nor there but thought I'd throw it in anyway.

 

I think the terminology is meant to be a red herring. If they hadn't used that red herring, we'd know too much about the last book.

Oh the WoT and it's red herrings... what would we do without them? Myself, I'd probably have much more of a life

I'll have to check out that FAQ (sometime other than when most normal people are probably asleep.) I've been meaning to. I've seen you mention it regarding a few topics now. It might help speed me on my way to said life.

[Terez]

Oh the WoT and it's red herrings... what would we do without them? Myself, I'd probably have much more of a life

I'll have to check out that FAQ (sometime other than when most normal people are probably asleep.) I've been meaning to. I've seen you mention it regarding a few topics now. It might help speed me on my way to said life.

It might raise as many questions as it answers...but it would at least save you the trouble of working out the ones it does answer. In some cases, it might serve as nothing more than a series of quote collections, such as the Blood on the Rocks page, which has pretty much every prophecy relevant to Rand's death in any way. I just remembered I need to add one to it.

[cmsnaith]

Okay, let us suppose that this is Rand. In the first line, he raises his hand to free the Dark One. Second line, he falls and is consumed by the Midnight Towers. This can be interpreted in one of two ways: 1) he is turned to the shadow, or 2) he is killed by the shadow. If 1) is correct, then the following line (his destruction shall blah blah blah...) would be interpreted as the destruction he causes shakes the will of men. If 2) is correct, then his death shakes the will of men.

 

Okay, that's all well and good.

 

Now we proceed to the next stanza, which begins "And then." And then the Lord of the Evening comes. The chronological ordering is that Rand will either fall to the shadow, or die, AND THEN the Dark One comes. "He shall take our... blah blah blah." "And the Lord of the Evening shall face the Broken Champion..." So, from what I've gathered so far, it's almost undisputed that Rand is the Broken Champion. Yet, this seems to contradict the prior stanza. If Rand died, he's suddenly here facing the Dark One? If Rand turned to the Shadow, why is the DO having a showdown with him? "...and spill his blood..." wait, is Rand being killed here? If he died in the last stanza, just before the DO comes, he's being killed again? I suppose this could fit the "Twice to Live, Twice to Die" prophesy. And again, if he's turned to the Shadow, why is the DO killing him? Unless Rand's blood, when he's the Light's champion, seals the DO away, but if he's the Shadow's champion, it frees the DO? Interesting idea.

 

HOWEVER, I suppose there could be a third interpretation of "Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers." If could be that Rand falls to the Seanchan. If the Seanchan are being referenced here as the Midnight Towers, and Rand falling to them (kneeling to the Crystal Throne, perhaps, or maybe being controlled via the male a'dam), then this could fit the next stanza well, as perhaps it is imperative that Rand NOT fall to the Seanchan in order to defeat the DO. Shifting the meaning of Broken Wolf to Rand changes the whole complex of the prophesy.

[Terez]

Okay, let us suppose that this is Rand. In the first line, he raises his hand to free the Dark One. Second line, he falls and is consumed by the Midnight Towers. This can be interpreted in one of two ways: 1) he is turned to the shadow, or 2) he is killed by the shadow. If 1) is correct, then the following line (his destruction shall blah blah blah...) would be interpreted as the destruction he causes shakes the will of men.

Or possibly his subsequent death.

 

Now we proceed to the next stanza, which begins "And then." And then the Lord of the Evening comes. The chronological ordering is that Rand will either fall to the shadow, or die, AND THEN the Dark One comes. "He shall take our... blah blah blah." "And the Lord of the Evening shall face the Broken Champion..." So, from what I've gathered so far, it's almost undisputed that Rand is the Broken Champion.

Could be Galad.

 

Yet, this seems to contradict the prior stanza. If Rand died, he's suddenly here facing the Dark One?

Resurrection.

[Louise]

Yet, this seems to contradict the prior stanza. If Rand died, he's suddenly here facing the Dark One?

Resurrection.

 

Exactly.

 

'To live, you must die.'

What if that doesn't mean he dies after facing the DO, but after his duel with Moridin...

 

Rand faces Moridin and falls, fullfilling the Midnight Towers line. (Based on the assumption they refer to the Forsaken eg: Egwene's Dream.)

 

The fear and sorrow line is then fullfilled due to the death of the DR before he has faced the DO. Enter: the three women around the funeral bier, Randland plunged into unimagnable chaos etc etc.

 

Resurection. Which ever way you want to look at the how of it, Rand is brought back in time to fight his prophecised duel, kill/imprison the DO etc.

 

A little off topic but the ‘Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed. Once for mourning, once for birth,' line could also be worked in here.

Once for mourning... of the Dragon's premature death, and once for birth... the Dragon's resurection.

[coolpool]

i posted this somewhere else but this seems like the thread to say it in..

 

i think theres a good case of the broken wolf being Lan, the verse already mentions rand, mat and perin so i dont think it is one of them but if it is then it is probs perin..

 

its the way the verse is layed out..

"Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers"

the "and" in Yea, and the Broken Wolf implies 'oh and him aswell, don't forget to mention that guy..' do u get what i mean..

and Death might mean the dark one, not mordin as many think, and the darkone definatly must know about Lan

 

also, lan is often assosiated or described as wolf like so he cud be the 'broken wolf'

also if lan died that wud have a big affect on alot of people since he has had his personal war with the shadow for a long time and survived..he's almost like an icon as a thorn in the dark ones foot and his death after years of definance, well it cud even be said to "bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself."

[Louise]

i posted this somewhere else but this seems like the thread to say it in..

 

i think theres a good case of the broken wolf being Lan, the verse already mentions rand, mat and perin so i dont think it is one of them but if it is then it is probs perin..

 

its the way the verse is layed out.."Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers"the "and" in Yea, and the Broken Wolf implies 'oh and him aswell, don't forget to mention that guy..' do u get what i mean..

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I believe, in this case, that 'Yea' is intended to have a more archaic definition. In this context, I take it to mean indeed or truly, this would change the whole structure of the line in comparison to how you're looking at it.

 

Other lines that, for me, back this up are; 'Lo, shall it come upon the world...' and 'O followers of the Shadow...' as well as the overall writing style of the prophecy.

 

Having said that (and though I don't agree) there are good cases for it to be Lan. Though for me, he doesn't fit the Wolf part as well as Rand does. The esteem in which the wolves hold him, and the way that they regard him (see previous post,) places a big tick on his head IMO.

[Terez]

i posted this somewhere else but this seems like the thread to say it in..

 

i think theres a good case of the broken wolf being Lan, the verse already mentions rand, mat and perin so i dont think it is one of them but if it is then it is probs perin..

 

its the way the verse is layed out.."Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers"the "and" in Yea, and the Broken Wolf implies 'oh and him aswell, don't forget to mention that guy..' do u get what i mean..

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I believe, in this case, that 'Yea' is intended to have a more archaic definition. I take it to mean indeed or truly, this would change the whole structure of the line in comparison to how you're looking at it.

We actually asked Peter Ahlstrom about this, and he said something along the lines of 'shouldn't read too much into it because it's just a throwaway prophecy word meant to sound pompous'. I quoted him in the old thread, which was deleted by the guy who started it (apparently because I started a poll, which made him feel like his thread was excessive, or something, but that's why we can't delete our own posts any more).

[FarShainMael]

After reading through this thread, and because I've started a full re-read of the series, I've changed my vote from Bashere to Lan. (Though I still think Bashere is a baddy.)