Iron Man 3

[MasterAblar]

I'm pretty sure the reason why the majority of the suits were crap is because they were all prototypes that he never tested. They weren't combat ready. I mean how many did he have? 52? Wasn't he just at 7 in the Avengers? Not to mention he was barely sleeping.

[EmperorAllspice]

I'm pretty sure the reason why the majority of the suits were crap is because they were all prototypes that he never tested. They weren't combat ready. I mean how many did he have? 52? Wasn't he just at 7 in the Avengers? Not to mention he was barely sleeping.

 Not the point. MY point is that he lost due to reasons that were not planned by the villains. SO it's still the villains getting lucky. Which I can't stand.

[SinisterDeath]

 

I'm pretty sure the reason why the majority of the suits were crap is because they were all prototypes that he never tested. They weren't combat ready. I mean how many did he have? 52? Wasn't he just at 7 in the Avengers? Not to mention he was barely sleeping.

 Not the point. MY point is that he lost due to reasons that were not planned by the villains. SO it's still the villains getting lucky. Which I can't stand.

 

You know that thing about military engagements, and planning goes?

No matter how many contingencies you plan for, no matter how thorough your plan is. It ultimately is only good, up until the point the action starts.

 

If one side happens to get lucky?

How many times has Iron Man WON because HE got lucky? (same holds for the comics)

Why isn't that nearly as unforgiveable, as a villain gaining the upper hand because they got lucky?

[EmperorAllspice]

 

 

I'm pretty sure the reason why the majority of the suits were crap is because they were all prototypes that he never tested. They weren't combat ready. I mean how many did he have? 52? Wasn't he just at 7 in the Avengers? Not to mention he was barely sleeping.

 Not the point. MY point is that he lost due to reasons that were not planned by the villains. SO it's still the villains getting lucky. Which I can't stand.

 

You know that thing about military engagements, and planning goes?

No matter how many contingencies you plan for, no matter how thorough your plan is. It ultimately is only good, up until the point the action starts.

 

If one side happens to get lucky?

How many times has Iron Man WON because HE got lucky? (same holds for the comics)

Why isn't that nearly as unforgiveable, as a villain gaining the upper hand because they got lucky?

 

 No. Because I'm far more interested in a VILLAIN'S skills than in the hero's. I'm fine with a hero getting an odd lucky break to win in the heat of combat. (not preferable but I'm fine with them)

 

I'd rather a hero win because he's a better person or through strength of will, to him being BETTER than his opponents technically.

 

(grinds teeth) no one ever understands. It makes me want to hit something

[EmperorAllspice]

I'd rather something be entertaining than realistic. I hate luck in fiction with every fibre of my being.

 

Because luck cannot be replicated in a work of fiction. Not unless you rolled some dice or tossed a coin at every choice and possibility present when planning and writing a story. Luck is what happens when the author wants to interfere with events. You will never have blind luck. Truly blind luck, Iron Man could've taken out those helicopters easily. But if that happened then Iron Man wouldn't have nearly been killed. And the writer wanted that to happen. He could've had Killian himself invent something capable of fighting off Iron Man and wrecking his place. But instead he chose to undermine his efforts by having his success hinged entirely on arbitrary luck.

 

... but the luck wasn't arbitrary. His suit could've malfunctioned at any time. ANY time. It could've worked literally just as easily when the house was attacked then malfunctioned after the attack. So why malfunction during the attack at the most inopportune moment? Because that's when the author needed it to malfunction.

 

... I'd rather a film be pushed forward purely by the actions of the characters. Not by the author leaning in to affect matters that in real life would and should be completely arbitrary. and if this comes at the expense of so called "realism" then so be it. Killian should've blown up Tony's house by legitimately outdoing him and besting Tony's skills and efforts for that time being.

 

Gee I hope that made sense

[Tiinker]

It's okay man. I get you. Like Bane breaking Batmans back in a straight up 1 v 1 forcing him to come back stronger and then giving him a reason to come back more determined by destroying Gotham. When Potts came back from the grave to deliver the final ass beating I was so upset.

[SinisterDeath]

First.

You don't have to get angry, because people disagree with you. I understand the point your  making, I simply disagree with it.

 

I'd rather something be entertaining than realistic. I hate luck in fiction with every fibre of my being.

This here, I find hypocritical, contrary, whatever term you want to think of.

If you hate luck, Then it should be universal.

If the Hero gets lucky, its good, but if a bad guy gets lucky, then OMG he's a shit villain!

That's just one sided hate.

 

Because luck cannot be replicated in a work of fiction. Not unless you rolled some dice or tossed a coin at every choice and possibility present when planning and writing a story. Luck is what happens when the author wants to interfere with events. You will never have blind luck. Truly blind luck, Iron Man could've taken out those helicopters easily. But if that happened then Iron Man wouldn't have nearly been killed. And the writer wanted that to happen. He could've had Killian himself invent something capable of fighting off Iron Man and wrecking his place. But instead he chose to undermine his efforts by having his success hinged entirely on arbitrary luck.

Couple of things.

1. Luck as you put it, is a fairly important. We call it luck, but there's more to it than that. Which follows into

2. Stark hasn't slept for over 72 hours. He's gone into obsessive mode, creating new ironman suit after iron man suit. he's suffering from PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder). Instead of thoroughly testing each design, he's just moving onto the next one. Idle hands, are the devils play things. (I'm sure you've heard that one before) Was it luck that the villain nearly killed tony stark? Sure.

You could argue that the Mandrarin, couldn't possibly have known all this stuff about Tony Stark, and that shit would have gone bad. But, I don't think he really cared had Iron Man been able actually take out all those helicopters right away. (though, obviously several of those rockets would have still done massive damage to his home before he could have got into the suit.)

Besides which, Krillians visit to Tony Stark's Wife wasn't by accident. (look at the stress it caused Tony! That was purely intentional on his part, Create a rift between his enemy, and his wife. Attack at a time, when she'd just be getting home. reeling after his reveal of his home address? Not a coincidence at all.

 

Either way, however irrelevant all that was. It all boils down to Tony Defeating him self. Which is really, the best way to defeat any super hero. Or rather, its the only way. (as bat man, taking down the Justice league has shown. no matter how much you beat up a super hero, you'll never make them give up. Unless, you can make them, defeat themselves, and stop wanting to be a hero. That's the only way you can ever defeat a super hero. And we know just how well killing one tends to work.

 

 

... but the luck wasn't arbitrary. His suit could've malfunctioned at any time. ANY time. It could've worked literally just as easily when the house was attacked then malfunctioned after the attack. So why malfunction during the attack at the most inopportune moment? Because that's when the author needed it to malfunction.

You do realize, that every single one of tony stark's inventions, tend to, through out all 3 films, malfunction at the worst possible moment right? Also, if you ever watched any movie that features combat like this, you'll realize that.. this is actually a fairly common practice.

 

This is pretty much standard fighting drama. This holds true for Wrestling on TV, Karate Kid, Avengers... All the Spiderman films, Star Trek, Iron Man, X-Men... everything Jackie Chan...and pretty much anything that involves hand to hand fighting, and even

comics.

 

Good guy is strong, flaunts his strength on some minions.

starts off even with the bad guy, testing each others strength.

Bad guy pulls ahead of the good guy.

Good guy starts catching up

Bad guy gets a cheap shot in

Kicks the good guy while he's down.

Good guy gets up, with a smart move on his part. (Or rather, a CHEAP SHOT of his own)

People cheer! "YAY he showed him!"

Bad guy counters, they both trading punches.

Bad guy pulls ahead a bit

Then the good guy gets ahead abit.

Eventually, the good guy wins, usually when they are at their weakest.

 

This is pretty much standard fighting drama. You see it in every movie, ever.

 

Luck, Cheap Shots, same difference. If your a super villain, you'd be a moron, not to take advantage of luck, and your opponents own incompetence.

After all, that's why Tony Stark has won so many of his battles.

Cheap shots here, Throwing someone into a giant arc reactor there, tossing a flash bomb in a guys eyes while you skidattle.

 

We may not agree on this, and I'm not going to get ass hurt because others don't agree with me. (I like X-Men 3, Matrix 3, and Final Fantasy: Spirits Within, so I know what I'm talking about here!)

 

But I do hope, that you understand that this entire genre, is based upon basically that formula when it comes to the action sequences. Iron mans obviously going to have malfunctions where as Superman's got his kryptonite, Aquaman has... Land.

[EmperorAllspice]

It's okay man. I get you. Like Bane breaking Batmans back in a straight up 1 v 1 forcing him to come back stronger and then giving him a reason to come back more determined by destroying Gotham. When Potts came back from the grave to deliver the final ass beating I was so upset.

 

Or the Forsaken for instance

 

When Rahvin fought Rand he managed to outthink, outfight and outguile Rand the entire confrontation. Even managing to kill 3 main characters. It was absolutely awesome. Rand only won due to luck but it's still a great showing for the forsaken, showing us that they're actually credible threats even when they're less powerful than their opponent (since Rand was using an angreal to become stronger than Rand at that point)

 

In Iron Man 3 I never felt that the opposition was credible because they never fought Iron Man when he wasn't hindered or handicapped or desuited in some way. (until the end I gfuess but I never saw that, and going into a fight feeling no menace from the main antagonist is BAD

 

*Just spoiler coded wot spoilers. This isn't book forums afterall*

~Sinister

[EmperorAllspice]

First.

You don't have to get angry, because people disagree with you. I understand the point your  making, I simply disagree with it.

 

I'd rather something be entertaining than realistic. I hate luck in fiction with every fibre of my being.

This here, I find hypocritical, contrary, whatever term you want to think of.

If you hate luck, Then it should be universal.

If the Hero gets lucky, its good, but if a bad guy gets lucky, then OMG he's a shit villain!

That's just one sided hate.

 

Because luck cannot be replicated in a work of fiction. Not unless you rolled some dice or tossed a coin at every choice and possibility present when planning and writing a story. Luck is what happens when the author wants to interfere with events. You will never have blind luck. Truly blind luck, Iron Man could've taken out those helicopters easily. But if that happened then Iron Man wouldn't have nearly been killed. And the writer wanted that to happen. He could've had Killian himself invent something capable of fighting off Iron Man and wrecking his place. But instead he chose to undermine his efforts by having his success hinged entirely on arbitrary luck.

Couple of things.

1. Luck as you put it, is a fairly important. We call it luck, but there's more to it than that. Which follows into

2. Stark hasn't slept for over 72 hours. He's gone into obsessive mode, creating new ironman suit after iron man suit. he's suffering from PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder). Instead of thoroughly testing each design, he's just moving onto the next one. Idle hands, are the devils play things. (I'm sure you've heard that one before) Was it luck that the villain nearly killed tony stark? Sure.

You could argue that the Mandrarin, couldn't possibly have known all this stuff about Tony Stark, and that shit would have gone bad. But, I don't think he really cared had Iron Man been able actually take out all those helicopters right away. (though, obviously several of those rockets would have still done massive damage to his home before he could have got into the suit.)

Besides which, Krillians visit to Tony Stark's Wife wasn't by accident. (look at the stress it caused Tony! That was purely intentional on his part, Create a rift between his enemy, and his wife. Attack at a time, when she'd just be getting home. reeling after his reveal of his home address? Not a coincidence at all.

 

Either way, however irrelevant all that was. It all boils down to Tony Defeating him self. Which is really, the best way to defeat any super hero. Or rather, its the only way. (as bat man, taking down the Justice league has shown. no matter how much you beat up a super hero, you'll never make them give up. Unless, you can make them, defeat themselves, and stop wanting to be a hero. That's the only way you can ever defeat a super hero. And we know just how well killing one tends to work.

 

 

... but the luck wasn't arbitrary. His suit could've malfunctioned at any time. ANY time. It could've worked literally just as easily when the house was attacked then malfunctioned after the attack. So why malfunction during the attack at the most inopportune moment? Because that's when the author needed it to malfunction.

You do realize, that every single one of tony stark's inventions, tend to, through out all 3 films, malfunction at the worst possible moment right? Also, if you ever watched any movie that features combat like this, you'll realize that.. this is actually a fairly common practice.

 

This is pretty much standard fighting drama. This holds true for Wrestling on TV, Karate Kid, Avengers... All the Spiderman films, Star Trek, Iron Man, X-Men... everything Jackie Chan...and pretty much anything that involves hand to hand fighting, and even

comics.

 

Good guy is strong, flaunts his strength on some minions.

starts off even with the bad guy, testing each others strength.

Bad guy pulls ahead of the good guy.

Good guy starts catching up

Bad guy gets a cheap shot in

Kicks the good guy while he's down.

Good guy gets up, with a smart move on his part. (Or rather, a CHEAP SHOT of his own)

People cheer! "YAY he showed him!"

Bad guy counters, they both trading punches.

Bad guy pulls ahead a bit

Then the good guy gets ahead abit.

Eventually, the good guy wins, usually when they are at their weakest.

 

This is pretty much standard fighting drama. You see it in every movie, ever.

 

Luck, Cheap Shots, same difference. If your a super villain, you'd be a moron, not to take advantage of luck, and your opponents own incompetence.

After all, that's why Tony Stark has won so many of his battles.

Cheap shots here, Throwing someone into a giant arc reactor there, tossing a flash bomb in a guys eyes while you skidattle.

 

We may not agree on this, and I'm not going to get ass hurt because others don't agree with me. (I like X-Men 3, Matrix 3, and Final Fantasy: Spirits Within, so I know what I'm talking about here!)

 

But I do hope, that you understand that this entire genre, is based upon basically that formula when it comes to the action sequences. Iron mans obviously going to have malfunctions where as Superman's got his kryptonite, Aquaman has... Land.

 It's not that others don't agree with me, it's that I tend to feel like others don't understand. Which is what's frustrating.

 

You make good points. And they make sense. It's just not what I'm interested in when I watch something. If other elements are engaging then I can perhaps ignore the things I don't like. But this movie had NOTHING else for me to enjoy, so my problems with luck became infinitely more glaring.

 

I'm just a villain's man. I like it when villains make their own luck. When they get by on their cunning. It's just what I personally am interested in.

[SinisterDeath]

 

I'm just a villain's man. I like it when villains make their own luck. When they get by on their cunning. It's just what I personally am interested in.

Check out the novel Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov.

 

*Edit*

Forgot to mention.

Had you stuck around to watch the final battle, you would have learned, just how credible of a threat, the Mandarin was to Iron Man. And just prepared iron man truly was.

[EmperorAllspice]

 Actually, I realized that stuff about Him attacking when pots was there and trrying to cause a rift early on.

 

Actually I think I might've even been able to tolerate this movie if I liked Killian or found him in any way interesting. But I didn't. Like. At all.

 

I was just sitting there in the cinema and I realized "I do not care about what's going on. The antagonist is not interesting or threatening. I hate the main character. I just had nothing to care about... ,Maybe I can force myself to sit through it when it comes out on dvd (shrugs)

[SinisterDeath]

 

Maybe I can force myself to sit through it when it comes out on dvd (shrugs)

 

or just sit through the last battle.

 

Personally, I'd have to see something... Far, Far worse to walk out on.. Maybe Twilight. *nods*

Yea, I would have walked out the moment those suckers

started glowing

.

 

Yep. Definitely.

lol

[Tiinker]

 

 

I'm just a villain's man. I like it when villains make their own luck. When they get by on their cunning. It's just what I personally am interested in.

Check out the novel Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov.

 

*Edit*

Forgot to mention.

Had you stuck around to watch the final battle, you would have learned, just how credible of a threat, the Mandarin was to Iron Man. And just prepared iron man truly was.

 

Pretty OP. Fire breathing was a lol though. 

[SinisterDeath]

 

 

 

I'm just a villain's man. I like it when villains make their own luck. When they get by on their cunning. It's just what I personally am interested in.

Check out the novel Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov.

 

*Edit*

Forgot to mention.

Had you stuck around to watch the final battle, you would have learned, just how credible of a threat, the Mandarin was to Iron Man. And just prepared iron man truly was.

 

Pretty OP. Fire breathing was a lol though. 

 

Yea lol. I like how war machine backed down when that happened.

[EmperorAllspice]

So what exactly happens in the last battle that shows how competent Killian is? I DREADED the final battle honestly. Because I saw Iron Man assembling a massive army of his suits and I was like "this is gonna be like the final fight of Avengers ain't it? Wehre Loki spent the entire fight getting dominated or humiliated and the whole thing was a nonstop awesomefest for the heroes." Which bores me to tears in case you didn't realize that about me -__-

[SinisterDeath]

So what exactly happens in the last battle that shows how competent Killian is? I DREADED the final battle honestly. Because I saw Iron Man assembling a massive army of his suits and I was like "this is gonna be like the final fight of Avengers ain't it? Wehre Loki spent the entire fight getting dominated or humiliated and the whole thing was a nonstop awesomefest for the heroes. Which bores me to tears in case you didn't realize that about me -__-

 

 

He went into battle, basically just him and war machine (neither with suits). They get surrounded by those mean glowy hot people. So Iron man calls Jarvis, and sends in the rest of his suits (some 40 odd of them) And those suckers swarm the red-glowly minions.

He fights the mandarin, each time losing a suit due to super-heated hand attacks. Litterally every single one of his suits are destroyed. About to bite the bullet, his main suit finally returns. He fights mandarin some more. Nearly dies again. annnnd.. Well, That I leave till someone else spoils it, or the  dvd comes out.

 

[EmperorAllspice]

Damn that sounds cool. Damn you killian. Why must you be so boring? 0_0

[SinisterDeath]

Damn that sounds cool. Damn you killian. Why must you be so boring? 0_0

Look on the bright side.

Star Trek comes out in a couple of weeks, could always sit in on the ending of iron man 3 after you watch star trek.. right?

[EmperorAllspice]

Depends on if the villain of Star Trek is any good -___-. I'm afraid Benedict Cumberbatch is going to turn out to be a good guy.