Potential new prediction

[skalors3]

You can believe whatever you want; that doesn't make it logical.

 

How is it not logical? Is it due to the fact that it throws a wrench in a theory? Or is there another reason?

 

Of course there's a reason—it's incredibly clear that Aviendha is going to change that future, and it's impossible to argue that any given circumstance will be the same. By its very nature, it doesn't throw wrenches in very many theories at all.

 

I don't see how changing an outcome of a possible vision prevents any part of that vision from being true. If I changed Adolf Hitler's name to Ramon, but changed nothing else about his life, would that change the fact that he murdered millions of people? Maybe, if his name was the torment behind his view of the lives of Jewish individuals. However, it isn't likely. So, Avi changing the course of the Aiel may, or may not, change Rand's future or lack thereof.

[skalors3]

Rand has always reminisced about his times with Tam as a sheepherder. Him living in deep seclusion would fit with what he has wanted to return back to for awhile now so that could mean staying away from everything and everyone.

 

From the brief glimpse we had of LTT, he wasn't an absent father, I don't think Rand would be either.

[FarShainMael]

But Jesus didn't stick around for very long after his resurrection. He didn't die again but neither did he stay around.

 

I don't think he'll stay around in Randland either—at least, not so far as the vast majority of people are concerned. There will be a few people who know he's alive, but only the important people.

 

But more importantly I really don't see how Jordan's remark about Rand being gone like the wind can possibly apply if he settles to live incognito in the Two Rivers.

 

Because as far as most people are concerned he is gone. The Dragon Reborn is nowhere to be found.

 

I could see that. I don't see him as a man who ignores his children. There are a lot of things wrong with the hanging around and hiding scenario. It works until you see Padra's POV.

 

I can't see Rand remaining in hiding and watching the Aiel being slowly destroyed.

 

I'd need to see a timeline.. but if Rand lives another 400 years or so, he would be around for a lot of the events Avi foresaw.

 

ETA: The Aelfinn did not promise Rand he would survive. His PoV in LoC26 recalls them as saying "If you would live, you must die". Later, in KoD18, he talks to Cadsuane about the Aelfinn answers, but does not mention what he now recalls as 'To live, you must die'. Neither of these is in any sense a promise.

[Ishna]

If he will live a life in "secrecy" after Tarmon Gaidon it will be in Moridins body....

[FarShainMael]

If he will live a life in "secrecy" after Tarmon Gaidon it will be in Moridins body....

 

Perhaps, though I've never been a fan of the 'bodyswap' idea. But even as a Moridin-lookalike, he would not hang back and do nothing!

[b3arz3rg3r]

If he will live a life in "secrecy" after Tarmon Gaidon it will be in Moridins body....

 

Perhaps, though I've never been a fan of the 'bodyswap' idea. But even as a Moridin-lookalike, he would not hang back and do nothing!

 

There are plenty of challenging things Rand could do without entering the political stage again.

[FarShainMael]

If he will live a life in "secrecy" after Tarmon Gaidon it will be in Moridins body....

 

Perhaps, though I've never been a fan of the 'bodyswap' idea. But even as a Moridin-lookalike, he would not hang back and do nothing!

 

There are plenty of challenging things Rand could do without entering the political stage again.

 

I was thinking specifically of the Aiel and their foreseen future.

[b3arz3rg3r]

If he will live a life in "secrecy" after Tarmon Gaidon it will be in Moridins body....

 

Perhaps, though I've never been a fan of the 'bodyswap' idea. But even as a Moridin-lookalike, he would not hang back and do nothing!

 

There are plenty of challenging things Rand could do without entering the political stage again.

 

I was thinking specifically of the Aiel and their foreseen future.

 

True. But the absence of just about everyone who has anything to say right now less than twenty years after TG is even more inexplicable. Tuon, Mat, Aviendha, Rand, the more influential Aiel WO, Egwene. All are either dead or for some reason don't involve themselves.

Well, he may have travelled to another planet through a portal stone or been busy otherwise when the war started and once it had started there wasn't much he could do to stop it. Sure he could have helped the Aiel win, but that would have involved killing Seanchan and I can't think of a compelling reason why Rand would want to kill people. It's not as if Aiel or Seanchan were any better than the other.

[FarShainMael]

Additional:

 

This was Rand's question to the Aelfinn, as reported in KoD18:

 

"One of my questions for the Aelfinn was 'How can I win the last battle?'"

 

"A dangerous question to pose," {Cadsuane} said quietly, "touching on the Shadow as it does..//.. What was the answer?"

 

"'The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one .'" ..//.. That was not the whole of it. He had asked how to win and survive.

 

If we are to take this as accurate, then Rand did not ask how to survive the Last Battle; he simply asked how to survive. He didn't specify the circumstances of his survival, and neither did the Aelfinn.

[FarShainMael]

If he will live a life in "secrecy" after Tarmon Gaidon it will be in Moridins body....

 

Perhaps, though I've never been a fan of the 'bodyswap' idea. But even as a Moridin-lookalike, he would not hang back and do nothing!

 

There are plenty of challenging things Rand could do without entering the political stage again.

 

I was thinking specifically of the Aiel and their foreseen future.

 

True. But the absence of just about everyone who has anything to say right now less than twenty years after TG is even more inexplicable. Tuon, Mat, Aviendha, Rand, the more influential Aiel WO, Egwene. All are either dead or for some reason don't involve themselves.

Well, he may have travelled to another planet through a portal stone or been busy otherwise when the war started and once it had started there wasn't much he could do to stop it. Sure he could have helped the Aiel win, but that would have involved killing Seanchan and I can't think of a compelling reason why Rand would want to kill people. It's not as if Aiel or Seanchan were any better than the other.

 

At least the Aiel don't leash channellers.

 

But yes, I agree that something catastrophic happened to lose all those people. If Rand did survive the LB (but see my previous post above) I can't imagine him letting things get that bad. He would have knocked all those people's heads together and that war would never have started.

 

I hope!

[Daemin]

I think the people of the Dragon will keep the Dragon's peace he so desired.

 

I predicted the Aiel would be tasked with keeping the peace here: http://www.dragonmou...e-for-the-aiel/

 

I also came across a post buried 10 pages in another thread from May that predicted it as well.

[b3arz3rg3r]

It's the most popular theory on the board from what I understand. Well, I'm still against it

[skalors3]

It's the most popular theory on the board from what I understand. Well, I'm still against it

 

So am I. It is nice to think about it, but I don't see it fitting at all. Just because Rand deserves it doesn't mean he'll get it.

[skalors3]

I think the people of the Dragon will keep the Dragon's peace he so desired.

 

I predicted the Aiel would be tasked with keeping the peace here: http://www.dragonmou...e-for-the-aiel/

 

I also came across a post buried 10 pages in another thread from May that predicted it as well.

 

Nice Daemin. I'll read that thread when I have a little time. I am sure you supported your theory with facts and I'd like to read them. Lol.

[b3arz3rg3r]

It's the most popular theory on the board from what I understand. Well, I'm still against it

 

So am I. It is nice to think about it, but I don't see it fitting at all. Just because Rand deserves it doesn't mean he'll get it.

 

I was actually referring to Daemin, not agreeing with you.

[skalors3]

It's the most popular theory on the board from what I understand. Well, I'm still against it

 

So am I. It is nice to think about it, but I don't see it fitting at all. Just because Rand deserves it doesn't mean he'll get it.

 

I was actually referring to Daemin, not agreeing with you.

 

Oh, lol. You should agree with me; I am right:)

[ArveduiEreinion]

I think the people of the Dragon will keep the Dragon's peace he so desired.

 

I predicted the Aiel would be tasked with keeping the peace here: http://www.dragonmou...e-for-the-aiel/

 

I also came across a post buried 10 pages in another thread from May that predicted it as well.

 

I think this theory has a lot of merit because I like how the dedication to peace (initially as a police force) turns into peace as an end unto itself with the turning of the Wheel. Maybe that's how we get the next version of the Way of the Leaf Aiel during the next Age of Legends. Also, it gives the Aiel a purpose that Aviendha's vision shows they lack after the Last Battle. Of course, the Aiel could be given other tasks but acting as a military/police force is congruent with their current warrior ethos centered as it is on ji'e'toh.

 

You're not the first to suggest it but I hope you will develop it further.

[raven_89]

Hey everyone!

 

Why do you think, that the "twice and twice" prophecy is about him living twice and dying twice?

Here goes the text:

“Twice and twice shall he be marked,

twice to live, and twice to die.

Once the heron, to set his path.

Twice the heron, to name him true.

Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost.

Twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay.”

For me it pretty obviously means that he gets two marks for life and two marks for death. Twice to live and twice to die could be said like: "two signs for living and two signs for dying", it's not about two lifes and two deaths but two signs for both his life and his death. If it foreshadows anything, it's Rand's death. The first heron to set his path - get him out of the Two Rivers, on his way. The second to acknowledge him as the Dragon Reborn. The first heron is for his memories that he received in VoG and the second one for his death at Shayol Ghul.

So there are other foreshadowings that could be interpreted as he will survive LB or he will be resurrected (f.e.: Nicola's foretelling) but the twice and twice rhyme is pretty clearly about his journey toward the LB and his death.

[skalors3]

Hey everyone!

 

Why do you think, that the "twice and twice" prophecy is about him living twice and dying twice?

Here goes the text:

“Twice and twice shall he be marked,

twice to live, and twice to die.

Once the heron, to set his path.

Twice the heron, to name him true.

Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost.

Twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay.”

For me it pretty obviously means that he gets two marks for life and two marks for death. Twice to live and twice to die could be said like: "two signs for living and two signs for dying", it's not about two lifes and two deaths but two signs for both his life and his death. If it foreshadows anything, it's Rand's death. The first heron to set his path - get him out of the Two Rivers, on his way. The second to acknowledge him as the Dragon Reborn. The first heron is for his memories that he received in VoG and the second one for his death at Shayol Ghul.

So there are other foreshadowings that could be interpreted as he will survive LB or he will be resurrected (f.e.: Nicola's foretelling) but the twice and twice rhyme is pretty clearly about his journey toward the LB and his death.

 

They could be interpreted as him being resurrected and dying again at the end of the Last Battle. I think the belief that he will survive the Last Battle comes from sympathy of the character. His death culminates this series for me. I could be wrong though.

[djptrix]

I always felt that the Dragon Reborn would die, not Rand. Lews Therin's soul or presence would finally move on into the Pattern, much like the people that were called back when Mat blew the Horn of Valere, while Rand was left with his own soul and memories. Min had a viewing that the two were separate and that helped convince Rand that he was not crazy and not hearing voices in his head.

[Suttree]

I always felt that the Dragon Reborn would die, not Rand. Lews Therin's soul or presence would finally move on into the Pattern, much like the people that were called back when Mat blew the Horn of Valere, while Rand was left with his own soul and memories. Min had a viewing that the two were separate and that helped convince Rand that he was not crazy and not hearing voices in his head.

 

Rand is the Dragon Reborn. LTT was the Dragon. There is only one soul, they are not seperate. One soul two personalities per RJ. And for the record Rand was totally crazy. There is nothing to move on at this point however. That was already covered during the integration of memories during the VoG sequence.

 

 

[Durinax]

I always felt that the Dragon Reborn would die, not Rand. Lews Therin's soul or presence would finally move on into the Pattern, much like the people that were called back when Mat blew the Horn of Valere, while Rand was left with his own soul and memories. Min had a viewing that the two were separate and that helped convince Rand that he was not crazy and not hearing voices in his head.

this was what I thought until VoG (that sequence pissed me off btw), with one dying and one living.

[Terez]

Min's viewing was about Rand and Moridin, not Rand and Lews Therin (no matter what Rand thinks; he still seems completely unaware of his link with Moridin, despite Moridin telling him about it).

[Barid Bel Medar]

Also, we knew Rand and LTT were the same soul long before VoG. RJ did confirm it, that they couldn't be split.

 

INTERVIEW: Jan 7th, 2003

COT Signing Report - David Funke (Verbatim)

 

QUESTION

The question is, with Rand and Lews Therin, do they have one soul or two souls in the body?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

They have one soul with two personalities. The reincarnation of souls does not mean reincarnation of personalities. The personality develops with each reincarnation of the soul. This is the cosmology that I have cobbled together.

 

 

INTERVIEW: Sep 3rd, 2005

DragonCon Report - Isabel (Verbatim)

 

AAN'ALLEIN

 

A couple of related questions on souls. Can they be split? Is it true you can meet yourself in the Worlds of If, is that a copy of the soul, a reflection, or the same soul living in different worlds?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

I think I will have to give you a RAFO on this, except for the part, souls cannot be split, but the other, I think I will have to give you a RAFO because I may be doing something with that.

[FarShainMael]

Hey everyone!

 

Why do you think, that the "twice and twice" prophecy is about him living twice and dying twice?

Here goes the text:

“Twice and twice shall he be marked,

twice to live, and twice to die.

Once the heron, to set his path.

Twice the heron, to name him true.

Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost.

Twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay.”

For me it pretty obviously means that he gets two marks for life and two marks for death. Twice to live and twice to die could be said like: "two signs for living and two signs for dying", it's not about two lifes and two deaths but two signs for both his life and his death. If it foreshadows anything, it's Rand's death. The first heron to set his path - get him out of the Two Rivers, on his way. The second to acknowledge him as the Dragon Reborn. The first heron is for his memories that he received in VoG and the second one for his death at Shayol Ghul.

 

I'm wondering why he would need two signs for life, and two for death. I feel that the 'twice' has a double significance.

 

I also believe that his first 'death' was a metaphorical one and took place in VoG, when the old, darkened TwoRivers-Rand ceased to exist, and a new entity, Rand Sedai, a blend of Rand and LTT, was 'born'.

 

So there are other foreshadowings that could be interpreted as he will survive LB or he will be resurrected (f.e.: Nicola's foretelling) but the twice and twice rhyme is pretty clearly about his journey toward the LB and his death.

 

And I still think he'll die at Shayol Ghul. Possibly he needs to die to meet the DO in, er, person. The bit in Nicola's Foretelling about 'he who is dead yet lives' may possibly refer to Rand's continued existence in T'A'R - we have it from RJ that Rand is one of the Heroes, though his precise relationship with the Horn seems to be a bit different to Hawkwing et al.

 

http://www.theorylan...main.php?i=86#3

 

http://www.theorylan...main.php?i=86#4