Potential new prediction

[skalors3]

I say potential because I am not an avid follow of this forum, so I don't know if this has been mentioned before.

 

In my effort to give terez firm reasons why his/her believing Rand will survive the last battle is a pipe dream, I developed this theory. It focuses on the Aiel, or more specifically, the direction that should be given to them.

 

So Padra seemed like a woman who never knew her parents. The Aiel nation was a nation lost. Rand is accused of abandoning the Aiel (which is most likely a feeling fostered hundreds of years later by a people left to their own devises). In all of his planning, Rand ignored the Aiel, then he died. However, one thing stuck out during this entire process: the peace of the Dragon failed because there was no one to police up the rulers. Rand died and people were left to their word.

 

I think the people of the Dragon will keep the Dragon's peace he so desired.

[Terez]

For the record, I argued for many years that Rand would die and stay dead, believing it the appropriate ending. The accumulated foreshadowing convinced me otherwise. I don't have any particular 'pipe dream' for Rand to survive; I just think that's what's going to happen based on the evidence.

[skalors3]

Lol. I don't see any evidence, tbh. In fact, I see more convincing me of his death than survival.

 

I think what people see as foreshadowing is Jordan's way of showing human desires. Rand wants to survive. Min is determined to see him survive. It doesn't mean that he is foreshadowing his survival. Death won't be healed. None of them are the creator. He may live twice in this book, but he will die at the end.

 

I see where this thread is going, lol.

[Terez]

Lol. I don't see any evidence, tbh.

 

Probably because you're not looking for it.

[skalors3]

I completely disagree. I used to hope for Rand to live. I was certain Min was going to find a way. However, everything in the last 4 books points to a world without Rand, not a world with Rand.

 

1. His connection to Moridin gives him access to the TP, which will likely be required for him to use in order to buffer Saidin and Saidar from the taint.

 

2. Nynaeve even says everything short of death should be something she can heal.

 

3. Prophecies talk of one that comes after Rand.

 

4. His answer from the Finn's is likely their way of saying if he fails, the wheel will never spit him out again. They give cheap answers.

 

5. He MAY be resurrected in the book's, but even Avi's viewings of the future show a world without Rand's presence. If you focus on Padra's viewing, it is plainly obvious. He will die again. The answer to the viewing isn't Rand's survival, it is Rand giving a purpose to the Aiel. Instead of using them for war and leaving them on their own ("discarding them like a broken spear").

[herid]

Personally, I find it extremely difficult to see how Rand can survive and stick around living incognito in the Two Rivers or anywhere in the Randlands at all for that matter. He's grown way too big as a character. he is already an absolutely mythical figure. I can see him maybe going away to another world (when the Ogier leave for example) but staying around seems very improbable. Plus there is this quote by Jordan related by Harriet

He came like the wind, like the wind touched everything, and like the wind was gone.

This would agree with the name of the last book too.

But there are some inbook hints that he might actually stay around as hard as it is to believe.

The biggest one IMO is the viewing of Min from TOM, ch 25

 

"Not that sunlight," Min whispered. "A viewing. I see dark clouds, pushed away by the sunlight's warmth. I see you, a brilliant white sword held in your hand, wielded against one of black, held by a faceless darkness. I see trees, growing green again, bearing fruit. I see a field, the crops healthy and full." She hesitated. "I see the Two Rivers, Rand. I see an inn there with the mark of the Dragon's Fang inlaid on its door. No longer be a symbol of darkness or hate. A sign of victory and hope."

 

Min's viewings always directly involve the person she is viewing at the moment. The bolded part obviously happens after the DO is defeated and since it takes place in the Two Rivers this ought to mean that Rand is around there somewhere. If this was written by RJ I would consider it a definitive proof. But this scene was most likely written by BS so it very easily can just be a mistake or a reflection of his own views of how Min's viewings work.

[Terez]

It will be extremely easy for Rand to live out his life in secret. There is nothing about him that dictates he must have a public life.

 

Limping to the foot of the bed, he lowered himself into the chest there and laid Callandor across his knees, bloody hands resting on the glowing blade. With that in his hands, even one of the Forsaken would fear him. In a moment he would send for Moiraine to Heal his wounds. In a moment he would speak to the Aiel outside, and become the Dragon Reborn again. But for now, he only wanted to sit, and remember a shepherd named Rand al'Thor.

[b3arz3rg3r]

The general assumption is that Rand should he survive will retire from the world stage. That he will find some occupation which keeps him out of sight and that he can spend some time in anonymity. Some say he'll be an innkeeper others say he'll return to the farm though I doubt he would do something like that for the next 400 years. But the next twenty years while he raised a bunch of kids with Min he might do. After that he could travel to other planets through portal stones or move to Shara or to the Island of Madmen, and never return except to look in on his kids or to meet up with some of his pals.

 

As for why most people think Rand will survive, I'd say it's because RJ has been far too outspoken about proclaiming Rand's doom. Since book 1 we've heard that Rand supposedly is doomed to die. This is just too much foreshadowing to be believable.

 

Now, regarding your prediction. From what I understand the Dragon's Peace was actually kept for the most part until the Aiel shattered it. The problem wasn't the lack of police it was the fact that Rand didn't properly account for Seanchan and Aiel.

[skalors3]

Personally, I find it extremely difficult to see how Rand can survive and stick around living incognito in the Two Rivers or anywhere in the Randlands at all for that matter. He's grown way too big as a character. he is already an absolutely mythical figure. I can see him maybe going away to another world (when the Ogier leave for example) but staying around seems very improbable. Plus there is this quote by Jordan related by Harriet

He came like the wind, like the wind touched everything, and like the wind was gone.

This would agree with the name of the last book too.

But there are some inbook hints that he might actually stay around as hard as it is to believe.

The biggest one IMO is the viewing of Min from TOM, ch 25

 

"Not that sunlight," Min whispered. "A viewing. I see dark clouds, pushed away by the sunlight's warmth. I see you, a brilliant white sword held in your hand, wielded against one of black, held by a faceless darkness. I see trees, growing green again, bearing fruit. I see a field, the crops healthy and full." She hesitated. "I see the Two Rivers, Rand. I see an inn there with the mark of the Dragon's Fang inlaid on its door. No longer be a symbol of darkness or hate. A sign of victory and hope."

 

Min's viewings always directly involve the person she is viewing at the moment. The bolded part obviously happens after the DO is defeated and since it takes place in the Two Rivers this ought to mean that Rand is around there somewhere. If this was written by RJ I would consider it a definitive proof. But this scene was most likely written by BS so it very easily can just be a mistake or a reflection of his own views of how Min's viewings work.

 

I would agree with Herid. However, the scene has Brandon written all over it. We all know that Callandor will be required to win the last battle. This also tells us that he wins.

[skalors3]

It will be extremely easy for Rand to live out his life in secret. There is nothing about him that dictates he must have a public life.

 

Limping to the foot of the bed, he lowered himself into the chest there and laid Callandor across his knees, bloody hands resting on the glowing blade. With that in his hands, even one of the Forsaken would fear him. In a moment he would send for Moiraine to Heal his wounds. In a moment he would speak to the Aiel outside, and become the Dragon Reborn again. But for now, he only wanted to sit, and remember a shepherd named Rand al'Thor.

 

If he didn't have a Queen for a wife, and multiple children by two women in authority positions, I would agree.

[skalors3]

The general assumption is that Rand should he survive will retire from the world stage. That he will find some occupation which keeps him out of sight and that he can spend some time in anonymity. Some say he'll be an innkeeper others say he'll return to the farm though I doubt he would do something like that for the next 400 years. But the next twenty years while he raised a bunch of kids with Min he might do. After that he could travel to other planets through portal stones or move to Shara or to the Island of Madmen, and never return except to look in on his kids or to meet up with some of his pals.

 

As for why most people think Rand will survive, I'd say it's because RJ has been far too outspoken about proclaiming Rand's doom. Since book 1 we've heard that Rand supposedly is doomed to die. This is just too much foreshadowing to be believable.

 

Now, regarding your prediction. From what I understand the Dragon's Peace was actually kept for the most part until the Aiel shattered it. The problem wasn't the lack of police it was the fact that Rand didn't properly account for Seanchan and Aiel.

 

If you re-read the scene, it was stated twice, from Aiel perspective, that he wanted peace but no one was there to hold the wetlander's to their word. If the Aiel had been given direction, they wouldn't have lied to Andor to involve them in the war either.

[driedraspberry]

Personally, I find it extremely difficult to see how Rand can survive and stick around living incognito in the Two Rivers or anywhere in the Randlands at all for that matter. He's grown way too big as a character. he is already an absolutely mythical figure. I can see him maybe going away to another world (when the Ogier leave for example) but staying around seems very improbable. Plus there is this quote by Jordan related by Harriet

He came like the wind, like the wind touched everything, and like the wind was gone.

This would agree with the name of the last book too.

But there are some inbook hints that he might actually stay around as hard as it is to believe.

The biggest one IMO is the viewing of Min from TOM, ch 25

 

"Not that sunlight," Min whispered. "A viewing. I see dark clouds, pushed away by the sunlight's warmth. I see you, a brilliant white sword held in your hand, wielded against one of black, held by a faceless darkness. I see trees, growing green again, bearing fruit. I see a field, the crops healthy and full." She hesitated. "I see the Two Rivers, Rand. I see an inn there with the mark of the Dragon's Fang inlaid on its door. No longer be a symbol of darkness or hate. A sign of victory and hope."

 

Min's viewings always directly involve the person she is viewing at the moment. The bolded part obviously happens after the DO is defeated and since it takes place in the Two Rivers this ought to mean that Rand is around there somewhere. If this was written by RJ I would consider it a definitive proof. But this scene was most likely written by BS so it very easily can just be a mistake or a reflection of his own views of how Min's viewings work.

 

I could see him living incognito for a lifetime but then when everyone he loves dies it just seems like pointless. And probably depressing besides. A way to work with that could be to drastically shorten Rand's lifetime through injury or effects of TG. Or burn him out.

[skalors3]

Also b3arz3rg3r, 17 years had passed in Padra's life in Avi's viewing. It is obvious that girl did not know her father in the viewing.

[Terez]

We all know that Callandor will be required to win the last battle.

 

Actually, we don't know any such thing. Distinctions are important.

 

It will be extremely easy for Rand to live out his life in secret. There is nothing about him that dictates he must have a public life.

If he didn't have a Queen for a wife, and multiple children by two women in authority positions, I would agree.

 

What does that have to do with anything? Just because they have authority positions doesn't mean that they need his help. And traveling makes visiting easy.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Personally, I find it extremely difficult to see how Rand can survive and stick around living incognito in the Two Rivers or anywhere in the Randlands at all for that matter. He's grown way too big as a character. he is already an absolutely mythical figure. I can see him maybe going away to another world (when the Ogier leave for example) but staying around seems very improbable. Plus there is this quote by Jordan related by Harriet

He came like the wind, like the wind touched everything, and like the wind was gone.

This would agree with the name of the last book too.

But there are some inbook hints that he might actually stay around as hard as it is to believe.

The biggest one IMO is the viewing of Min from TOM, ch 25

 

"Not that sunlight," Min whispered. "A viewing. I see dark clouds, pushed away by the sunlight's warmth. I see you, a brilliant white sword held in your hand, wielded against one of black, held by a faceless darkness. I see trees, growing green again, bearing fruit. I see a field, the crops healthy and full." She hesitated. "I see the Two Rivers, Rand. I see an inn there with the mark of the Dragon's Fang inlaid on its door. No longer be a symbol of darkness or hate. A sign of victory and hope."

 

Min's viewings always directly involve the person she is viewing at the moment. The bolded part obviously happens after the DO is defeated and since it takes place in the Two Rivers this ought to mean that Rand is around there somewhere. If this was written by RJ I would consider it a definitive proof. But this scene was most likely written by BS so it very easily can just be a mistake or a reflection of his own views of how Min's viewings work.

 

I could see him living incognito for a lifetime but then when everyone he loves dies it just seems like pointless. And probably depressing besides.

 

And boring. Rand is 22 I believe. That's far too young to live out his final years on the pasture. He has to do something interesting after a lengthy vacation.

 

The general assumption is that Rand should he survive will retire from the world stage. That he will find some occupation which keeps him out of sight and that he can spend some time in anonymity. Some say he'll be an innkeeper others say he'll return to the farm though I doubt he would do something like that for the next 400 years. But the next twenty years while he raised a bunch of kids with Min he might do. After that he could travel to other planets through portal stones or move to Shara or to the Island of Madmen, and never return except to look in on his kids or to meet up with some of his pals.

 

As for why most people think Rand will survive, I'd say it's because RJ has been far too outspoken about proclaiming Rand's doom. Since book 1 we've heard that Rand supposedly is doomed to die. This is just too much foreshadowing to be believable.

 

Now, regarding your prediction. From what I understand the Dragon's Peace was actually kept for the most part until the Aiel shattered it. The problem wasn't the lack of police it was the fact that Rand didn't properly account for Seanchan and Aiel.

 

If you re-read the scene, it was stated twice, from Aiel perspective, that he wanted peace but no one was there to hold the wetlander's to their word. If the Aiel had been given direction, they wouldn't have lied to Andor to involve them in the war either.

Avi's children are full of prejudice, but from what I remember there was only mention of small scale fighting so the Peace was largely kept until the Aiel and not the wetlanders shattered it.

 

Yes, the Aiel need to be given direction, doesn't mean that the Aiel need to police the world. There are many other things they could do. The only real requirement is that it keeps them occupied for a thousand years or more, because the aiel are a bunch of fanatics.

 

Also b3arz3rg3r, 17 years had passed in Padra's life in Avi's viewing. It is obvious that girl did not know her father in the viewing.

 

And so she didn't, but if Rand was serious about remaining anonymous he wouldn't tell the kids who he is. Atleast not until they are old enough to keep the secret. He could pose as a favourite uncle.

 

Moreover in the Viewing Aviendha is also gone somewhere else. Whether dead or just departed we don't know. Anyways, everything regarding the Aiel is subject to change anyways since Aviendha will try to avert that fate. Aviendha won't have a daughter named Padra.

[skalors3]

You assume Avi lives through the child birth. Her death and Aiel custom with children could mean that she has no say over the name of the children.

 

Terez, I didn't think it was even a question about Callandor. I will have to take some time to share the exhausting amount of information and foreshadowing involving the use of Callandor and the last battle. Whether it is used in the sealing or somewhere else, it is extremely important. Besides, one of Min's viewing has him holding Callandor. Unless you think he is holding the Death Stick instead.

[b3arz3rg3r]

You assume Avi lives through the child birth. Her death and Aiel custom with children could mean that she has no say over the name of the children.

 

Terez, I didn't think it was even a question about Callandor. I will have to take some time to share the exhausting amount of information and foreshadowing involving the use of Callandor and the last battle. Whether it is used in the sealing or somewhere else, it is extremely important. Besides, one of Min's viewing has him holding Callandor. Unless you think he is holding the Death Stick instead.

 

Yes, I do expect Avi to survive childbirth, but even if she doesn't I expect her to make her wishes known regarding the name of the children. Afterall she has 8 or 9 months to think of names for them.

[MarkDiLillo]

The only hard evidence Rand will survive IMO is the Finns answer to his question of how to win the last battle and survive. While their answer suggests he will live, it also suggests that he may just live on in the future (ala Veins of Gold understanding). Problem with that answer is that it seems kind of cheesy and not akin to their typical answers. So this suggests Rand will survive somehow after everything is done with.

 

On the other hand, the story DEMANDS that he dies. If he survives it will damn near ruin the entire series. The only way he can survive would be if he "leaves" and goes with the Ogier when they leave the world. Or some similar ending. Just "Oh hey im going to live for the next 600 years sheering sheep in peace" is absurd and would demolish the ending of this series.

[thisguy]

You assume Avi lives through the child birth. Her death and Aiel custom with children could mean that she has no say over the name of the children.

 

Terez, I didn't think it was even a question about Callandor. I will have to take some time to share the exhausting amount of information and foreshadowing involving the use of Callandor and the last battle. Whether it is used in the sealing or somewhere else, it is extremely important. Besides, one of Min's viewing has him holding Callandor. Unless you think he is holding the Death Stick instead.

 

Yes, I do expect Avi to survive childbirth, but even if she doesn't I expect her to make her wishes known regarding the name of the children. Afterall she has 8 or 9 months to think of names for them.

 

Rand, in case I die, do not name any of our children Padra.

 

 

OH, FFS, AVI!!!! That's my favorite name - Padra.

[skalors3]

The only hard evidence Rand will survive IMO is the Finns answer to his question of how to win the last battle and survive. While their answer suggests he will live, it also suggests that he may just live on in the future (ala Veins of Gold understanding). Problem with that answer is that it seems kind of cheesy and not akin to their typical answers. So this suggests Rand will survive somehow after everything is done with.

 

On the other hand, the story DEMANDS that he dies. If he survives it will damn near ruin the entire series. The only way he can survive would be if he "leaves" and goes with the Ogier when they leave the world. Or some similar ending. Just "Oh hey im going to live for the next 600 years sheering sheep in peace" is absurd and would demolish the ending of this series.

 

Thank you Mark. There is also hard evidence he will die too. There is even hard evidence that he will die twice.

[skalors3]

You assume Avi lives through the child birth. Her death and Aiel custom with children could mean that she has no say over the name of the children.

 

Terez, I didn't think it was even a question about Callandor. I will have to take some time to share the exhausting amount of information and foreshadowing involving the use of Callandor and the last battle. Whether it is used in the sealing or somewhere else, it is extremely important. Besides, one of Min's viewing has him holding Callandor. Unless you think he is holding the Death Stick instead.

 

Yes, I do expect Avi to survive childbirth, but even if she doesn't I expect her to make her wishes known regarding the name of the children. Afterall she has 8 or 9 months to think of names for them.

 

Rand, in case I die, do not name any of our children Padra.

 

 

OH, FFS, AVI!!!! That's my favorite name - Padra.

 

That only works if Rand survives, lol.

[skalors3]

You assume Avi lives through the child birth. Her death and Aiel custom with children could mean that she has no say over the name of the children.

 

Terez, I didn't think it was even a question about Callandor. I will have to take some time to share the exhausting amount of information and foreshadowing involving the use of Callandor and the last battle. Whether it is used in the sealing or somewhere else, it is extremely important. Besides, one of Min's viewing has him holding Callandor. Unless you think he is holding the Death Stick instead.

 

Yes, I do expect Avi to survive childbirth, but even if she doesn't I expect her to make her wishes known regarding the name of the children. Afterall she has 8 or 9 months to think of names for them.

 

What are the Aiel customs surrounding children of a dead wise one? Your answer has merit, I am just playing devil's advocate.

[MarkDiLillo]

The only hard evidence Rand will survive IMO is the Finns answer to his question of how to win the last battle and survive. While their answer suggests he will live, it also suggests that he may just live on in the future (ala Veins of Gold understanding). Problem with that answer is that it seems kind of cheesy and not akin to their typical answers. So this suggests Rand will survive somehow after everything is done with.

 

On the other hand, the story DEMANDS that he dies. If he survives it will damn near ruin the entire series. The only way he can survive would be if he "leaves" and goes with the Ogier when they leave the world. Or some similar ending. Just "Oh hey im going to live for the next 600 years sheering sheep in peace" is absurd and would demolish the ending of this series.

 

Thank you Mark. There is also hard evidence he will die too. There is even hard evidence that he will die twice.

 

Wheres the hard evidence he dies twice? I'm curious as I've never looked into either theory very much. I just feel like he has to die and if he doesnt there needs to be a very satisfying and creative solution to allow him to live at the end.

[Terez]

Terez, I didn't think it was even a question about Callandor. I will have to take some time to share the exhausting amount of information and foreshadowing involving the use of Callandor and the last battle.

 

I happen to know all of it, thanks.

[skalors3]

Terez, I didn't think it was even a question about Callandor. I will have to take some time to share the exhausting amount of information and foreshadowing involving the use of Callandor and the last battle.

 

I happen to know all of it, thanks.

 

Then why even argue the point? I, on the other hand, would like to hear some concrete "foreshadowing" supporting your view he will live through the end.