I want my theory for the end of the book out there

[Owyn]

So if I am proven right, I can gloat.

 

I made this point before but no one believed me.

 

Ill make it short and sweet.

 

Just like with the taint, where he channeled the taint onsaidin into Shadar Logoth (sp) to cancel each other out, I believe he will do the same to the dark one.

 

The creator (Saidar/Saidin) is Matter, the Dark One is Anti-matter.

 

Somehow, he will channel the One Power (matter) into the Dark one (anti-matter) to cancel each other out.

 

The result, no more creator, no more dark one. The wheel stops spinning, time is no longer circular, magic is gone, the world/existence will move on in a straight line, essentially just like our (real) world.

[MarkDiLillo]

as brandon sanderson would say...

 

"Noted."

[bigdoug1971]

I like it when people put it all out there. I agree that you can say you were right and your prediction was correct.

On the other hand, when it don't turn out that way, you have to let people say "I told you so".

 

Either way, the theories, opinions, predictions, and discussions are fun!

 

BTW, I disagree and don't think this is how it ends. At least I really hope it doesn't.

[TootThatHorn]

The silly thing is that I really hope that neither my theories or anyone else's are correct otherwise it will almost feel like a spoiler; not quite where you know something is already coming, but on major things I will be disappointed that I already read it.

[Terez]

The silly thing is that I really hope that neither my theories or anyone else's are correct otherwise it will almost feel like a spoiler; not quite where you know something is already coming, but on major things I will be disappointed that I already read it.

 

But you just can't stay away can you? :) I'd be more disappointed if nothing was predictable; I happen to like foreshadowing. The best kind of foreshadowing is the kind that goes over your head, that you don't notice until after the event is past...but it's so obvious that it makes you smack your head in frustration for not having figured it out. RJ was one of the best at that kind of foreshadowing (see Verin). But it's inevitable that we will figure some of these things out; if they weren't figurable then it wouldn't be the right kind of foreshadowing.

 

PS—Some say the theory in the OP is disproven by RJ saying that the Wheel is endless and there is nothing special about this Age.

[TootThatHorn]

The silly thing is that I really hope that neither my theories or anyone else's are correct otherwise it will almost feel like a spoiler; not quite where you know something is already coming, but on major things I will be disappointed that I already read it.

 

But you just can't stay away can you? :) I'd be more disappointed if nothing was predictable; I happen to like foreshadowing. The best kind of foreshadowing is the kind that goes over your head, that you don't notice until after the event is past...but it's so obvious that it makes you smack your head in frustration for not having figured it out. RJ was one of the best at that kind of foreshadowing (see Verin). But it's inevitable that we will figure some of these things out; if they weren't figurable then it wouldn't be the right kind of foreshadowing.

 

PS—Some say the theory in the OP is disproven by RJ saying that the Wheel is endless and there is nothing special about this Age.

 

That kind of foreshadowing I love. Minor plots I could enjoy tied up in ways that have been predicted. But major things, like how Rand survives dying, how the bore gets sealed, I want to be reading something that blows anyone away. I know so many ideas have been put out there that someone's bound to be right, but still, it's perhaps a testament to how much time I lurk on here lol.

 

I will say this, if Fain has anything to do with sealing the bore I will be severely aggravated. And the body swap thing, just don't see it.

[Terez]

I don't think the body-swap theory is very well-foreshadowed. Most of what people count as foreshadowing for that theory is actually more to do with the merge between Rand and Moridin and not indicative of a body swap. The resurrection, on the other hand, is seriously well-foreshadowed. And it's totally against literary rules to do something like that (resurrection) without foreshadowing it.

 

PS—I think Fain's involvement with the sealing of the Bore is likely to have more to do with distraction than anything else. Fain vs Shaidar Haran has the potential to do that, for example.

[TootThatHorn]

I don't think the body-swap theory is very well-foreshadowed. Most of what people count as foreshadowing for that theory is actually more to do with the merge between Rand and Moridin and not indicative of a body swap. The resurrection, on the other hand, is seriously well-foreshadowed. And it's totally against literary rules to do something like that (resurrection) without foreshadowing it.

 

PS—I think Fain's involvement with the sealing of the Bore is likely to have more to do with distraction than anything else. Fain vs Shaidar Haran has the potential to do that, for example.

 

Your words have my blessing lol.

 

Edit: Many things I can handle the What, but it's the How I want some jazz and pizazz.

[Terez]

Yeah, the 'how' is definitely important. Even the correct theories will, optimally, fail to predict nuances, sometimes game-changing nuances.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Nice to see people getting their theories out there!

 

I disagree with it. It would make much of the series' themes entirely pointless.

 

But, we shall see, and perhaps you will be able to gloat about it in a few months.

 

 

PS—I think Fain's involvement with the sealing of the Bore is likely to have more to do with distraction than anything else. Fain vs Shaidar Haran has the potential to do that, for example.

 

definitely agree with this. If Fain has a similar role to that of Shadar Logoth in the Cleansing, I will be severely disappointed. It has already happened. I like Shadar Haran theory, Channelling doesn't work around the avatar, it would be a good way to include the mutual-destruction theme of opposite evils without having to basically repeat the cleansing.

[Elisaroth]

last battle is wrote by RJ long long time ago so im quite sure we all are up for suprice XD.

[thisguy]

Even if Mashadar is needed, Fain himself isn't really needed for sealing the bore. Rand's get the Mash/Fain evil trapped inside his wound now.

IF Mashadar is used as some sort of buffer or whatever, you can still have Fain die somewhere before it's used.

 

As I mentioned the other day, the more I think about it the more upset I'd be if Mashadar was needed to seal the bore as RJ has said that Fain has sidestepped the pattern somehow. Well, we know the Bore can be sealed so Fain should not be needed to seal it. It would almost seem like a cop out if he were used.

[hjustinpace]

This theory has the same logical problem as the DO's putative attempt to break the wheel of time. Since the wheel is infinite, if in essentially infinite tries something has never happened, the chances of it happening must be infinitesimal. Why is this time different (of course there is a meta answer to this).

 

(As an aside, it's for this reason I've always seen the DO's plight as sysyphean, RJ's references to manichaeism notwithstanding.)

 

(As another aside, given that we know RJ wrote or outlined the ending contemporaneously with The Eye of the World, I think the best clues to the final resolution of the series lie in elements from book 1 seemingly cast aside, rather than in elements of the final books.)

[Neophyte]

This theory has the same logical problem as the DO's putative attempt to break the wheel of time. Since the wheel is infinite, if in essentially infinite tries something has never happened, the chances of it happening must be infinitesimal. Why is this time different (of course there is a meta answer to this).

 

(As an aside, it's for this reason I've always seen the DO's plight as sysyphean, RJ's references to manichaeism notwithstanding.)

 

(As another aside, given that we know RJ wrote or outlined the ending contemporaneously with The Eye of the World, I think the best clues to the final resolution of the series lie in elements from book 1 seemingly cast aside, rather than in elements of the final books.)

 

Where is it said or implied that the Wheel is infinite? It was created, and there are things outside of it, so it can't be infinite.

[hjustinpace]

This theory has the same logical problem as the DO's putative attempt to break the wheel of time. Since the wheel is infinite, if in essentially infinite tries something has never happened, the chances of it happening must be infinitesimal. Why is this time different (of course there is a meta answer to this).

 

(As an aside, it's for this reason I've always seen the DO's plight as sysyphean, RJ's references to manichaeism notwithstanding.)

 

(As another aside, given that we know RJ wrote or outlined the ending contemporaneously with The Eye of the World, I think the best clues to the final resolution of the series lie in elements from book 1 seemingly cast aside, rather than in elements of the final books.)

 

Where is it said or implied that the Wheel is infinite? It was created, and there are things outside of it, so it can't be infinite.

 

"There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time," for starters.

[Neophyte]

Since the Wheel was created, that statement is catechismic puffery, delivered for effect. It is a description of how specific events unfold again and again within the Wheel, not a statement on the Wheel's infinite scope. Which is why it is followed, in it's formulaic delivery at the beginning of each book, by the sentence "But it was a beginning."

 

Anything that was created is, by definition, not infinite.

[hjustinpace]

Yes, but given enough iterations it becomes esssentially so. The question of 'will it end?' is less important than 'why now?'.

[Neophyte]

Yes, but given enough iterations it becomes esssentially so. The question of 'will it end?' is less important than 'why now?'.

 

Any number of iterations precludes the possibility of infinite scope. You presented the Wheel's infinite nature as a "logical problem" regarding the Dark One's intent to break it. However, since the Dark One is both prior to and outside of the Wheel (further evidence of it's finite nature) then that "logical problem" doesn't exist.

 

"Will it end?" and "Why now?" are equally unrelated to the Dark One's potential ability to break the Wheel. "Can it end?" is the only pertinent question, and since it had a beginning, it definitely is possible for it to end.

[hjustinpace]

Yes, but given enough iterations it becomes esssentially so. The question of 'will it end?' is less important than 'why now?'.

 

Any number of iterations precludes the possibility of infinite scope. You presented the Wheel's infinite nature as a "logical problem" regarding the Dark One's intent to break it. However, since the Dark One is both prior to and outside of the Wheel (further evidence of it's finite nature) then that "logical problem" doesn't exist.

 

"Will it end?" and "Why now?" are equally unrelated to the Dark One's potential ability to break the Wheel. "Can it end?" is the only pertinent question, and since it had a beginning, it definitely is possible for it to end.

 

Past performance is the best predictor of future performance. There has been a lot of talk about the DO breaking the Wheel, but in at bare minimum thousands of iterations of the Wheel the DO has not done so. Despite having in the past having been so successful as to turn the Light's champion to the Dark Side. And despite the Creator making what appears to be a conscious choice to stay hands off. Like I said, it looks awfully sysyphean to me.

[Neophyte]

Past performance is the best predictor of future performance. There has been a lot of talk about the DO breaking the Wheel, but in at bare minimum thousands of iterations of the Wheel the DO has not done so. Despite having in the past having been so successful as to turn the Light's champion to the Dark Side. And despite the Creator making what appears to be a conscious choice to stay hands off. Like I said, it looks awfully sysyphean to me.

 

There is an important difference between an outcome being unlikely (which is what you are describing now, and something I agree with) and an outcome being logically impossible (which is what you initially described, and something I disagree with).

 

It is extremely unlikely that the Dark One will break the Wheel (especially given the fourth-wall breaking consideration of the nature of storytelling). But given the in-book cosmology, is it not logically impossible.

[Elisaroth]

what if new breaking is caused of cataclysm between AS+light serving ashaman vs dredlord who are brainwashed ashaman+red vails+black sisters.

[Neophyte]

what if new breaking is caused of cataclysm between AS+light serving ashaman vs dredlord who are brainwashed ashaman+red vails+black sisters.

 

I imagine that at least some breaking will be caused by those conflicts. But none of that can compare with the scale of the Dark One's touch on the world.

[Swithin]

So if I am proven right, I can gloat.

 

I made this point before but no one believed me.

 

Ill make it short and sweet.

 

Just like with the taint, where he channeled the taint onsaidin into Shadar Logoth (sp) to cancel each other out, I believe he will do the same to the dark one.

 

The creator (Saidar/Saidin) is Matter, the Dark One is Anti-matter.

 

Somehow, he will channel the One Power (matter) into the Dark one (anti-matter) to cancel each other out.

 

The result, no more creator, no more dark one. The wheel stops spinning, time is no longer circular, magic is gone, the world/existence will move on in a straight line, essentially just like our (real) world.

 

This is exactly my current theory too. Almost all time-loop stories end by breaking the cycle, and the name of the series itself is "The Wheel of Time": the only thing that can really happen to it is for it to break, so...

 

I don't know. The way I wrote that sounds a bit dismissive over the "broken Wheel", but in my gut I feel like it needs to happen.

 

My biggest sticking point with the theory, though, has to do with the disappearance or absence of the One Power (not so much the Creator or the Dark One.) As a story-telling construct, it's so tied in with vitality and life that it would seem off-theme to me for it not to be there. It seems a bit depressing that one day there was a universal life-urge underlying everything, tied to everyone's souls, and the next it was gone. Then again, WoT is filled with stories of people maturing and taking on their own destinies, it would also make sense for humanity to claim singular ownership of their existence. The universe would sort of forcibly wake up and move out of the Creator's basement, so to speak. I just don't want all the "magic" to go away (the Pattern, Portal Worlds, etc.)

 

Oh, and about why this revolution of the Wheel would be any different, the answer "because RJ chose to wrote about the time it all changed" is satisfying enough to me.

 

PS - I've always found it interesting to think about whether a non-gendered species, or a species which requires the contribution of three genders to procreate, would have access to the OP differently (for instance, a unisex Source, or three thirds of the Power instead of two halves.)

[Elisaroth]

i cant see OP disappear after LB after avi future vision.

 

Then again if OP disapear raven empire is doomed ...

[OptimusPrime]

I like it when people put it all out there. I agree that you can say you were right and your prediction was correct.

On the other hand, when it don't turn out that way, you have to let people say "I told you so".

 

Either way, the theories, opinions, predictions, and discussions are fun!

 

BTW, I disagree and don't think this is how it ends. At least I really hope it doesn't.

I like it when people put it all out there. I agree that you can say you were right and your prediction was correct.

On the other hand, when it don't turn out that way, you have to let people say "I told you so".

 

Haha, so true. I am due a heck of a lot of I told you so, it seems