Rand vs Cadsuane

[condonmc]

So some here on DM are so quick to scream out Randfanboy when somone says anything about Cadsuane, that I feel they need to realize there own extreme fanboyism is blinding them to the story that RJ wrote. Yes I have read all the cadsuane posts and dont really care to argue what her intentions are and if shes a bully and all the stuff that people have picked apart and argued over and over again.... I just want to know who would win in a fight to the death...

 

Rand the Dragon Reborn or Cadsuane......

[thisguy]

Rand. All he'd have to do is hang back a few years. She's no spring chicken.

[Kamin_Majere]

Mat...

 

Are you actually wanting an answer to this, or just blowing off steam?

[condonmc]

Mat...

 

Are you actually wanting an answer to this, or just blowing off steam?

Probably both.....tryin to figure out where you found my name..... It started with a comment that Rand was spanked by cads, i got to thinkin why would Rand let himself be spanked, wouldnt he stop it and kill her? so i had to ask........

[Maleshub]

So some here on DM are so quick to scream out Randfanboy when somone says anything about Cadsuane, that I feel they need to realize there own extreme fanboyism is blinding them to the story that RJ wrote. Yes I have read all the cadsuane posts and dont really care to argue what her intentions are and if shes a bully and all the stuff that people have picked apart and argued over and over again.... I just want to know who would win in a fight to the death...

 

Rand the Dragon Reborn or Cadsuane......

 

Pre- Tarmon Gaid'on, Rand would win. The pattern would not allow him to die ;) Post - TG, both will be dead anyway!

[Suttree]

Yes his taveren nature would be the difference. Without that though Cads w/her Paralis-Net would give him all he could handle. She has a version of Mat's medallion after all in her hair pieces. Rands first strike not working could be taken advantage of. For all that he would be better trained by far than the others channelers, she has taken down more men than any 20 other reds combined including Logain.

[Kamin_Majere]

Probably both.....tryin to figure out where you found my name..... It started with a comment that Rand was spanked by cads, i got to thinkin why would Rand let himself be spanked, wouldnt he stop it and kill her? so i had to ask........

 

lol i meant Mat as in Matrim, had no idea lol

 

As to who wins... in a real fight to the death it would be who popped off the stream of balefire first. As to why he let her spank him, Im going with the author let it happen. I would have balefired her on the spot, but then again I would probably have lost TG because of choices I would have made differently than Rand... or i would have won by book 6 who's to know :p

[Suttree]

As to who wins... in a real fight to the death it would be who popped off the stream of balefire first. As to why he let her spank him, Im going with the author let it happen. I would have balefired her on the spot, but then again I would probably have lost TG because of choices I would have made differently than Rand... or i would have won by book 6 who's to know :p

 

Well no matter how crazy balefire is, it's still a direct weave. Unless something brand new is introduced direct weaves are stopped by the paralis-net.

[condonmc]

Yes his taveren nature would be the difference. Without that though Cads w/her Paralis-Net would give him all he could handle. She has a version of Mat's medallion after all in her hair pieces. Rands first strike not working could be taken advantage of. For all that he would be better trained by far than the others channelers, she has taken down more men than any 20 other reds combined including Logain.

You can very certainly call me a Rand fanboy, and I no that you Suttree are a Cadsuane fanboy. Now i mean this to be taken seriously with out trying to pick a fight with you, but if cadsuane is the most powerful being on earth why doesnt she start takeing out the forsaken, or challenge the DO herself. Or if she is so interested in saving the world why was she in her retreat mode growing roses when she could have been out doing a service to the side of the light... It stands to reason that if she could beat rand so simpily she should take his place... I am getting angrey even typing about her i hate her that much.... but i have read everything that you have wrote and argued about cads looking for a flaw and trying to exploit it, your very thorough, but beyond all the facts and proof could your love for her and hate for rand be making her out to be just a little to powerful?

[Suttree]

Yes his taveren nature would be the difference. Without that though Cads w/her Paralis-Net would give him all he could handle. She has a version of Mat's medallion after all in her hair pieces. Rands first strike not working could be taken advantage of. For all that he would be better trained by far than the others channelers, she has taken down more men than any 20 other reds combined including Logain.

You can very certainly call me a Rand fanboy, and I no that you Suttree are a Cadsuane fanboy. Now i mean this to be taken seriously with out trying to pick a fight with you, but if cadsuane is the most powerful being on earth why doesnt she start takeing out the forsaken, or challenge the DO herself. Or if she is so interested in saving the world why was she in her retreat mode growing roses when she could have been out doing a service to the side of the light... It stands to reason that if she could beat rand so simpily she should take his place... I am getting angrey even typing about her i hate her that much.... but i have read everything that you have wrote and argued about cads looking for a flaw and trying to exploit it, your very thorough, but beyond all the facts and proof could your love for her and hate for rand be making her out to be just a little to powerful?

 

Whoa mate, settle down. Who said anything about fanboys in this discussion? If you have read the notes on Cads you would understand that she has done more than just about anyone living durring her career for the light. This includes turning down positions of high power within the WT so she could be free to better serve. She has rescued captives of the shadow from the blight, broken up bands of df's terrorizing villages, propped up thrones, averted wars and almost took down the BA long before AS admitted they exist. Further at the first hint of any trouble she came out of retirement(Logain & Taim) and then swore to the DR to do what was best for him not herself or the WT. It is rather silly to call her retirement out as a fault when looking at her overall record.

 

As for this current battle you propose I'm simply being fair. She is a very powerful channeler with tons of experience taking down male channelers. On top of that she has her paralis-net which not only amplifies her strengths but has a piece that stops weaves like Mat's medallion. That is a pretty tough combination to overcome. Now Rand with his taveren nature surely would. Take that away and the contest becomes much closer. For all the experience he has keep in mind that LTT wouldn't know about the item of power that stops direct weaves as they didn't exist in the AoL per Lanfear's reaction to Alivia's at the cleansing. So it stands to reason if his first attack unraveled he could be in trouble due to being off balance. It is actually a fun question that you propose and should make for an interesting debate.

 

As an aside for the record Rand is in my top 5 favorite characters. I admit Cads comes in around three and he would be fifth most likely but still not sure where these claims of hate come from. If you notice on these boards no one really ever bashes Rand or uses hyperbole when talking about anyone aside from Eggy and the AS. So if it seems like I defend them more often than not, it is only because they need far and away the most defending.

 

Rand has some of my absolute favorite scenes in the series. The entire Damona Mountain campaign is incredible and who can forget "A Cup of Sleep". Perhaps the most touching moment in the series and it really drive home the reality of the sacrifice Ashaman make in serving the light.

 

TPoD

He actually backed to the small table to pick up the silver cup sitting among the lamps. Min’s breath caught.

"The Wisdom in my village could cure anything," Rand said as he knelt beside Fedwin. Somehow, he managed to smile at the boy without taking his eyes from Taim. Fedwin smiled back happily and tried to take the cup, but Rand held it for him to drink. "She knows more about herbs than anybody I’ve ever met. I learned a little from her, which are safe, which not." Fedwin sighed as Rand took the cup away and held the boy to his chest. "Sleep, Fedwin," Rand murmured.

It did seem that the boy was going to sleep. His eyes closed. His chest rose and fell more slowly. Slower. Until it stopped. The smile never left his lips.

"A little something in the wine," Rand said softly as he laid Fedwin down. Min’s eyes burned, but she would not cry. She would not!

"You are harder than I thought," Taim muttered.

[Shig]

We're talking about how Rand is now? With access to all of his memories as Lews Therin. Then if you wanted a serious answer...its obviously Rand. Im not a fanboy for either, i really like Rand and Cad's for different reasons, but Rand was the most powerful channeler on the planet(maybe not including some of the forsaken, we don't know if he'd reached his full strength yet, i know men jump in power, he may have had his final jump during the Epiphany, or maybe he'd already reached his full power) before his reintegration with Lews Therin (meaning he had the tools, but not the skills). After his transformation, he is a combination of Rand al'thor, and Lews Therin Telamon, Lews Therin being the most powerful channeler back when just about every channeler was unbelievably strong(in comparison to the weak-ass Aes Sedai of today). Although Cad's has her paralis-net, we know that Lews Therin handled one that may not have been exactly the same, but likely had many similar functions, meaning that he would understand them, not just stumble through like Aes Sedai do with many ter'angreal and whatnot.

 

Finally, it's important to look at levels in the power, can't remember exactly where each character fits on the thirteenth dep., but Cad's is at level 14, the wonder girls are at 15 and Nyv is at 18. The girls and Nyv are far weaker than Rand, and whilst Nyv might be able to stand up to him for a time, at level 14 Cad's would have no chance. Although it sounds fan-boyish, it isnt intended to be, but Rand has become the ultimate channeler, he's digivolved to his megaform and all that.

 

Edit.

For all the experience he has keep in mind that LTT wouldn't know about the item of power that stops direct weaves as they didn't exist in the AoL per Lanfear's reaction to Alivia's at the cleansing

Good point, i'd forgotten that, but i dont think the difference it makes up would be enough, Rand's got the skills and the power

[thisguy]

He could probably just have the ground swallow her up. Or throw ten thousand pebbles at her from every side. If he get within a foot of her, she's dead. The guy can handle multiple weaves at once. Like multiple multiple. That's without the Ta'veren-ess-ness-ness.

[Suttree]

Although Cad's has her paralis-net, we know that Lews Therin handled one that may not have been exactly the same, but likely had many similar functions, meaning that he would understand them, not just stumble through like Aes Sedai do with many ter'angreal and whatnot.

 

Yes he had a paralis-net but it did not include the device that disrupts weaves(like Mat's foxehead). That was a breaking era invention that did not exist in the AoL. Per Lanfear...

 

WH

Abruptly the light of saidar appeared around the woman, but the ready ball of fire streaked from Cyndane's hand, small enough to escape detection she hoped, but enough to burn a hole through this woman who—

Just as it reached the woman, almost close enough to singe her garments, the web of Fire unraveled. The woman did not do anything; the net simply came apart! Cyndane had never heard of a ter'angreal that would break a web, but it must be that.

 

Also keep in mind that while Cads is level 14 she has a terangreal in the net to amplify strength as well. All the differing functions her hair pieces hold are a huge advantage. Enough to overcone LTT's knowledge? Perhaps not, but it would be a close thing for certain.

 

@thisguy what you say is true but how long does it take to hit upon that method? Especially in the heat of battle.

[thisguy]

And, Rand has Callandor.

[condonmc]

This Q is for Suttree.... Does cadsuane ever spank Rand?

[Suttree]

This Q is for Suttree.... Does cadsuane ever spank Rand?

 

She didn't exactly turn him over her knee but:

 

KoD "Within the Stone"

“As soon as possible!” Rand snapped, slamming his fist down on the chair arm hard enough to make the wood creak loudly.

“One,” Cadsuane said, quite clearly and quite incomprehensibly....

Rand leaped up so fast that his sword bound for a moment on the chair arm. Only a moment because the gilded wood, weakened by his earlier blow, split with a loud crack, and the arm dropped to the carpet. He never so much as glanced at it. The fools! The Seanchan at the border with Altara, and they were coming back to Tear? “Doesn’t anybody remember how to obey?” he thundered. “I want messengers sent to them immediately! They’re to return to Illian faster than they left or I’ll have the lot of them hanged!”

“Two,” Cadsuane said. What in the Light was she counting? “A bit of advice, boy. Ask her what happened this morning. I smell good news.”...

“Three,” Cadsuane said, and Rand’s skin popped out in goose bumps an instant before something struck him across the bottom like a hard-swung switch. Bera’s lips parted in shock, and the cloak slid off her arm to the floor. Nynaeve laughed. She smothered it quickly, but she laughed! “Don’t make me have to keep reminding you about manners. boy.” Cadsuane went on. “Alanna told me the terms you offered before she left-Darlin as Steward, your laws kept, everything else on the table-and it seems they’ve been met. You can do as you wish, of course, but another piece of advice. When the terms you offer are accepted, hold to them.” Else no one will trust you, Lews Therin said, sounding entirely sane. For the moment.

Rand glared at Cadsuane, fists clenched hard, on the brink of weaving something that would singe her. He could feel a welt on his bottom, and would feel it more in the saddle. It seemed to pulse, and his anger pulsed with it. She peered back calmly over her wine. Was there a hint of challenge in her gaze, of daring him to channel? The woman spent every moment in his presence challenging him! The trouble was, her advice was good.

 

Nice hint there that his channeling would not have done any good.

 

And, Rand has Callandor.

 

Which is great for brute strength but after TPoD it is fairly clear that using Callandor without the proper precations would most likely do more harm than good.

[thisguy]

Seriously, the dude's used Callandor and been fine. And, even without it, he's pretty much the most powerful good guy. This is kinda silly. He has taken on forsaken and beaten them when he was half as powerful and knowledgeable as he is now. Whatever...

[Suttree]

This is kinda silly. He has taken on forsaken and beaten them when he was half as powerful and knowledgeable as he is now. Whatever...

 

What's silly? Saying that he would most likely win but it would be a near thing? No idea why you think brute force would matter since Cads is impervious to direct weaves. Rand does not know that is the case nor has he had to combat such a terangreal. In a battle situation the shock of realizing that could make a significant difference. I you look at it from an unbiased perspective it would be close.

 

As for callandor the story tells us it is an unreliable device unless you take the precautions. It is flawed, just because he had success one of the times it was used(although we saw hints of the wildness of the mind it causes) are no gaurauntees. It's not safe to use without being linked. Those are the facts.

[condonmc]

This Q is for Suttree.... Does cadsuane ever spank Rand?

 

She didn't exactly turn him over her knee but:

 

KoD "Within the Stone"

“As soon as possible!” Rand snapped, slamming his fist down on the chair arm hard enough to make the wood creak loudly.

“One,” Cadsuane said, quite clearly and quite incomprehensibly....

Rand leaped up so fast that his sword bound for a moment on the chair arm. Only a moment because the gilded wood, weakened by his earlier blow, split with a loud crack, and the arm dropped to the carpet. He never so much as glanced at it. The fools! The Seanchan at the border with Altara, and they were coming back to Tear? “Doesn’t anybody remember how to obey?” he thundered. “I want messengers sent to them immediately! They’re to return to Illian faster than they left or I’ll have the lot of them hanged!”

“Two,” Cadsuane said. What in the Light was she counting? “A bit of advice, boy. Ask her what happened this morning. I smell good news.”...

“Three,” Cadsuane said, and Rand’s skin popped out in goose bumps an instant before something struck him across the bottom like a hard-swung switch. Bera’s lips parted in shock, and the cloak slid off her arm to the floor. Nynaeve laughed. She smothered it quickly, but she laughed! “Don’t make me have to keep reminding you about manners. boy.” Cadsuane went on. “Alanna told me the terms you offered before she left-Darlin as Steward, your laws kept, everything else on the table-and it seems they’ve been met. You can do as you wish, of course, but another piece of advice. When the terms you offer are accepted, hold to them.” Else no one will trust you, Lews Therin said, sounding entirely sane. For the moment.

Rand glared at Cadsuane, fists clenched hard, on the brink of weaving something that would singe her. He could feel a welt on his bottom, and would feel it more in the saddle. It seemed to pulse, and his anger pulsed with it. She peered back calmly over her wine. Was there a hint of challenge in her gaze, of daring him to channel? The woman spent every moment in his presence challenging him! The trouble was, her advice was good.

 

Nice hint there that his channeling would not have done any good.

 

And, Rand has Callandor.

 

Which is great for brute strength but after TPoD it is fairly clear that using Callandor without the proper precations would most likely do more harm than good.

I dont see how this hints at his channeling being useless, but its a good part.....

[fionwe1987]

Seriously, the dude's used Callandor and been fine. And, even without it, he's pretty much the most powerful good guy. This is kinda silly. He has taken on forsaken and beaten them when he was half as powerful and knowledgeable as he is now. Whatever...

You do realize that Cadsuane has also taken on Foresaken? She stopped Lanfear's attack on Rand during the Cleansing, she disrupted Semirhage's disguise and likely shielded her, broke Semirhage (who even LTT was scared of) [though this was handled terribly in the books], etc.?

 

None of this is to say Cadsuane will will. But nor is she random clueless Aes Sedai. She knows a lot, she has a great deal of skill and experience, and she's adaptable and innovative. Rand is certainly not going to find taking her out a breeze.

[Suttree]

This Q is for Suttree.... Does cadsuane ever spank Rand?

 

She didn't exactly turn him over her knee but:

 

KoD "Within the Stone"

“As soon as possible!” Rand snapped, slamming his fist down on the chair arm hard enough to make the wood creak loudly.

“One,” Cadsuane said, quite clearly and quite incomprehensibly....

Rand leaped up so fast that his sword bound for a moment on the chair arm. Only a moment because the gilded wood, weakened by his earlier blow, split with a loud crack, and the arm dropped to the carpet. He never so much as glanced at it. The fools! The Seanchan at the border with Altara, and they were coming back to Tear? “Doesn’t anybody remember how to obey?” he thundered. “I want messengers sent to them immediately! They’re to return to Illian faster than they left or I’ll have the lot of them hanged!”

“Two,” Cadsuane said. What in the Light was she counting? “A bit of advice, boy. Ask her what happened this morning. I smell good news.”...

“Three,” Cadsuane said, and Rand’s skin popped out in goose bumps an instant before something struck him across the bottom like a hard-swung switch. Bera’s lips parted in shock, and the cloak slid off her arm to the floor. Nynaeve laughed. She smothered it quickly, but she laughed! “Don’t make me have to keep reminding you about manners. boy.” Cadsuane went on. “Alanna told me the terms you offered before she left-Darlin as Steward, your laws kept, everything else on the table-and it seems they’ve been met. You can do as you wish, of course, but another piece of advice. When the terms you offer are accepted, hold to them.” Else no one will trust you, Lews Therin said, sounding entirely sane. For the moment.

Rand glared at Cadsuane, fists clenched hard, on the brink of weaving something that would singe her. He could feel a welt on his bottom, and would feel it more in the saddle. It seemed to pulse, and his anger pulsed with it. She peered back calmly over her wine. Was there a hint of challenge in her gaze, of daring him to channel? The woman spent every moment in his presence challenging him! The trouble was, her advice was good.

 

Nice hint there that his channeling would not have done any good.

 

And, Rand has Callandor.

 

Which is great for brute strength but after TPoD it is fairly clear that using Callandor without the proper precations would most likely do more harm than good.

I dont see how this hints at his channeling being useless, but its a good part.....

 

The part where Rand thinks she was "daring" him to channel. If he had done so we know now the weaves would have melted as she has a item of power that functions the same as Mat's fox head in her hair piece.

[thisguy]

Brute force would matter because he could just drop a mountain on her.

[Suttree]

Brute force would matter because he could just drop a mountain on her.

 

That's how you see this going? Rand and Cads get into a one power battle. He has no idea that she has an item of power that blocks direct weaves, he knows he is the more powerful channeler and yet despite that he is going to risk using a flawed item of power(which has gone disastrously wrong before) in order to drop a mountain on her head as his first attack ...errmmm...scratches head. Don't think Vegas would have the greatest odds on that being how it plays out.

 

In addition to address this odd notion that brute force trumps all. As the brilliant Pat Rothfuss said:

 

What I did find oddly galling were some of the comments along the lines of, “Bast could never win against X. X has a power level of 9000!!!1!....

 

But vastly more irritating to me is the odd opinion that strength/power is the key factor when two people come into conflict.

 

The truth is, I find that sentiment more than irritating, I find it troubling. It means a lot of you haven’t been paying attention to the books I know you must have read.

 

If power is the only important thing, then Frodo loses against Sauron. Hell, if power’s the only important thing then Gandalf loses against Sauron. If magic is the deciding factor of a fight, then four plucky kids from England get their asses turned to stone by the White Which.

 

So yeah, Rake can turn into a dragon, but the point of fairy tales is that they teach us that dragons can be beaten.

[atlas74]

In a battle Rand would win hands down...Example, if Rand strikes first and discovers the weave disrupter he may be stunned for a moment as Cads throws her weave at him. With LTT's knowledge now, I think, we would be safe in assuming he can easily cut a womans weave...as he is cutting weave after weave he is carefully making his way towards Cads keeping her too occupied to really notice how close he is...then he smashes her nose with his nub and drives Justice through her black AS heart...I win again Cadsuane...HAHAHA, I actually genuinely enjoy both characters, I was just having some fun!

[Suttree]

then he smashes her nose with his nub and drives Justice through her black AS heart...I win again Cadsuane...HAHAHA,

 

Bwahaha great post atlas!