Looking for a quick explanation on the Eye of the World.

[Maleshub]

One of the things about this age is how knowledge is re-discovered and discovered. Ishmael, the 2nd most powerful male channeler and most knowledgeable and learned man walking on earth, was amazed to see Aviendha unweave the gateway in Ebou Dar. The discovery of healing stilling is another thing that I think wasn't discovered in the AoL. And we have a BA Aes Sedai Nacelle discovering a weave that tells a female channeler if a man is holding the power or not and where he directs his weave.

 

And at the time of creating the Eye of the World, Aes Sedai sent out thousands of wagons with terangreal and knowledge to be guarded by the Aiel against the impact of the Breaking. I don't think that at that moment Aes Sedai understood the full extent of the Breaking and its future devastation.

[Morsker]

I don't think Brandon would retcon such a major rule of the book without RJ's approval. I don't think Team Jordan would approve such a change without evidence. My guess is that there is notes hinting that RJ wanted taint-induced insanity healed.

 

Plus, as Suttree said, it could be a distinction. The One Power cannot heal insanity, but it can remove the taint affliction, which causes insanity.

I don't see anything in the "distinction" between healing insanity and removing the taint affliction, except backpedaling over a contradiction. And sure RJ might have approved these changes. All I'm saying is that something got changed. We saw Compulsion changes that don't even qualify as retcons because no effort was made to explain the past in terms of the new changes. Compared to that, changing Taint madness from "unhealable" to "believed unhealable" is a little thing.

 

Brandon lets the Compulsion weaves themselves carry instructions, while RJ only had the weave create an emotional and cognitive bias that the channeler then exploited, in a manner like post-hypnotic suggestion

I'm not sure that this is true. Verin used a weak, makeshift version of the Compulsion weave that she scrambled on her own, not the same one that the Forsaken use. I don't remember if Jordan ever described somebody use Compulsion properly, but I think he didn't, and the difference between Verin's Compulsion and Graendal's compulsion are intended.

Rahvin, Moghedian, and Graendel all use a form of Compulsion that makes the victim open to suggestions and commands, but they still speak the commands. Graendel is mentioned as having the capacity to be more subtle, and to lightly use Compulsion only at certain points of a conversation, to manipulate people very finely. But none of them just psi-beam thoughts into someone's head. Brandon changed that completely. His willingness to make such a big retcon, and his hints at a connection between Compulsion and the Taint, show me that he'd be willing to change that too.

[Vardar]

Rahvin, Moghedian, and Graendel all use a form of Compulsion that makes the victim open to suggestions and commands, but they still speak the commands. Graendel is mentioned as having the capacity to be more subtle, and to lightly use Compulsion only at certain points of a conversation, to manipulate people very finely. But none of them just psi-beam thoughts into someone's head. Brandon changed that completely. His willingness to make such a big retcon, and his hints at a connection between Compulsion and the Taint, show me that he'd be willing to change that too.

 

I'm not seeing the difference here.

 

Ravhin and Moggy gave specific instructions that were done (Telling the girls to do something and telling Mograse to go back to her room and sleep).

 

I'll start here, Can you explain the difference a little better for me please, I'm not seeing it. Or point me out to a thread where it was discussed if it's old news.

[thisguy]

Rahvin, Moghedian, and Graendel all use a form of Compulsion that makes the victim open to suggestions and commands, but they still speak the commands. Graendel is mentioned as having the capacity to be more subtle, and to lightly use Compulsion only at certain points of a conversation, to manipulate people very finely. But none of them just psi-beam thoughts into someone's head. Brandon changed that completely. His willingness to make such a big retcon, and his hints at a connection between Compulsion and the Taint, show me that he'd be willing to change that too.

 

I'm not seeing the difference here.

 

Ravhin and Moggy gave specific instructions that were done (Telling the girls to do something and telling Mograse to go back to her room and sleep).

 

I'll start here, Can you explain the difference a little better for me please, I'm not seeing it. Or point me out to a thread where it was discussed if it's old news.

 

In LoC - around page 100 - Sammael meets up with Graendel and says her compulsion is so subtle you might never find a trace of it. As for them not psi beaming - I think they do sometimes. We see it with Morgase and Rahvin. We saw it with Nynaever and Elayne in Tanchico with Moghedien. Just told them what to do and they did it.

[Lisa Campbell]

Yes but the reason they did it was because the Compulsion made them absolutely adore and irrationally want to please the Compeller. Moghedian told Elayne and Nynaeve to answer her truthfully and they were seriously competing to answer Moghedien first so as to be the one to please her. After, Moghedien tells them to pack up their stuff and forget the whole incident replacing the memory with being polite and having a cup of tea with a mistaken stranger. It was only Nynaeve's will/stubbornness that allowed her to break through Moghedien's later attempt at compulsion where she clearly explains the emotions involved and when it doesn't work, Moghedien reverts to more direct methods.

[thisguy]

Yes but the reason they did it was because the Compulsion made them absolutely adore and irrationally want to please the Compeller. Moghedian told Elayne and Nynaeve to answer her truthfully and they were seriously competing to answer Moghedien first so as to be the one to please her. After, Moghedien tells them to pack up their stuff and forget the whole incident replacing the memory with being polite and having a cup of tea with a mistaken stranger. It was only Nynaeve's will/stubbornness that allowed her to break through Moghedien's later attempt at compulsion where she clearly explains the emotions involved and when it doesn't work, Moghedien reverts to more direct methods.

 

Right. I'm just answering the question above. Someone said they didn't just psi beam the thoughts into their heads, but when you cut it down that's what it comes to quite often.

[Vardar]

Umm. I guess now I'm confused because I don't know what the bloody hell a Psi-Beam is.

But I kinda get it I suppose, but aren't the effects the same.

[Lisa Campbell]

I interpreted that as Psi-Beam = implanting a memory or instruction telepathically directly into the victim's mind.

[Vardar]

I interpreted that as Psi-Beam = implanting a memory or instruction telepathically directly into the victim's mind.

 

Didn't Ravhin do that to that nameless sister who didn;'t have the ageless look yet?

 

Or are we saying forcing them to love them so much that they choose to believe something is somehow different? (It seems like the same thing to me)

[Lisa Campbell]

Seeing as how what he did to that AS happened off screen, I can't say. I'm just going with what I know. Using a similar weave to remove the taint as to remove Compulsion does not mean that they are the same weave or that BS changed anything at all. Perhaps the notes just state that Nynaeve removes the taint resulting in a return of sanity and BS had to run with it...

[Vardar]

Seeing as how what he did to that AS happened off screen, I can't say. I'm just going with what I know. Using a similar weave to remove the taint as to remove Compulsion does not mean that they are the same weave or that BS changed anything at all. Perhaps the notes just state that Nynaeve removes the taint resulting in a return of sanity and BS had to run with it...

 

Lol. Ok.

 

I don't even know what they're debating, so I stayed out of it. I was just really confused about the compulsions part, because they seem like the same damn thing to me (the examples given)

[Lisa Campbell]