Nicola's Foretelling

[thisguy]

Wouldn't the Seanchan just call Rand a thief and demand he hand over Hawkwing's property to Hawkwing's rightful heir?

That is after all, pretty much what they're doing with the whole of WoTland.

 

I consider it just possible that Rand IS Hawkwing's rightful heir..

 

That just gave me an idea. Galad is Rand's 1/2 bro. Galad is getting with Berelain.... etc, etc.

[Tiberius]

Wouldn't the Seanchan just call Rand a thief and demand he hand over Hawkwing's property to Hawkwing's rightful heir?

That is after all, pretty much what they're doing with the whole of WoTland.

 

I consider it just possible that Rand IS Hawkwing's rightful heir..

 

That just gave me an idea. Galad is Rand's 1/2 bro. Galad is getting with Berelain.... etc, etc.

 

To continue this hijack: what would happen if Mat blew the horn with Tuon around and Hawkwing appeared and ordered her tiny highness to do what the Dragon says?

[Luckers]

Wouldn't the Seanchan just call Rand a thief and demand he hand over Hawkwing's property to Hawkwing's rightful heir?

That is after all, pretty much what they're doing with the whole of WoTland.

 

I consider it just possible that Rand IS Hawkwing's rightful heir..

 

That just gave me an idea. Galad is Rand's 1/2 bro. Galad is getting with Berelain.... etc, etc.

 

To continue this hijack: what would happen if Mat blew the horn with Tuon around and Hawkwing appeared and ordered her tiny highness to do what the Dragon says?

 

She'd likely ignore him for the good of the Empire. If Fortuona can rationalize her own ability to channel, she can rationalize Hawkwing's oposition--and it's entirely plausible she knows the Heroes are compelled to obey the Hornsounder.

 

I'm not saying it wouldn't create for an interesting and charged moment, but I rather suspect Fortuona wouldn't fall in line for anyone.

[thisguy]

It's actually a pretty good idea, though. There's no prophecy of the Horn being used before the last battle. Maybe Mat will sound if for Rand for a parley. Probably not, but could be cool, nonetheless.

[Tiberius]

I would think ignoring Hawkwing himself would lower her eyes if any other of the blood were around. Or perhaps obeying him would. Hard to say with their Klingon sense of honor.

[Durinax]

It's actually a pretty good idea, though. There's no prophecy of the Horn being used before the last battle. Maybe Mat will sound if for Rand for a parley. Probably not, but could be cool, nonetheless.

but there is the thing about "let he who sounds me think not of glory, but of salvation"

[shortkut]

It's actually a pretty good idea, though. There's no prophecy of the Horn being used before the last battle. Maybe Mat will sound if for Rand for a parley. Probably not, but could be cool, nonetheless.

but there is the thing about "let he who sounds me think not of glory, but of salvation"

is preventing a war not salvation? is it not moreso if it is done before TG so they can all fight on the same side?

[Terez]

I have always doubted that all the Seanchan problems would be solved by Hawkwing, though I would not be surprised if he takes a part at some point. Tuon has mentioned that the Hornsounder is important to Seanchan prophecies, but not how.

 

“What do you know of the Dragon Reborn?” she asked him another evening.

 

He choked on a mouthful of wine, and the whirling colors in his brain dissipated in a fit of coughing. The wine was near enough vinegar; but even Nerim had a hard time finding good wine these days. “Well, he’s the Dragon Reborn,” he said when he could speak, wiping wine from his chin with one hand. For a moment, he saw Rand eating at a large dark table. “What else is there to know?” Selucia refilled his cup smoothly.

 

“A great deal, Toy. For one thing, he must kneel to the Crystal Throne before Tarmon Gai’don. The Prophecies are clear on that, but I haven’t even been able to learn where he is. It becomes still more urgent if he is the one who sounded the Horn of Valere, as I suspect.”

 

“The Horn of Valere?” he said weakly. The Prophecies said what? “It’s been found, then?”

 

“It must have been, mustn’t it, if it was sounded?” she drawled dryly. “The reports I’ve seen from the place where it was blown, a place called Falme, are very disturbing. Very disturbing. Securing whoever blew the Horn, man or woman, may be as important as securing the Dragon Reborn himself. Are you going to play a stone or not, Toy?”

 

He played his stone, but he was so shaken that the colors whirled and faded without forming any image. In fact, he was barely able to eke out a draw from what had seemed a clear winning position.

 

Turak knew it was important, and knew that the Hornsounder would be bound to the Horn, something most Randlanders have forgotten.

[Luckers]

I would think ignoring Hawkwing himself would lower her eyes if any other of the blood were around. Or perhaps obeying him would. Hard to say with their Klingon sense of honor.

 

Probably depends on what Brandon wants to happen. He's not one for letting a characters nature get in the way of plot.

[Tiberius]

Indeed, it will be interesting to see how the Horn plays out in the end. It doesn't seem to have much going for it besides a hundred or so heroes, in the scope of things.. What role will it play? Seal Team 6 spec ops heroes? A diversion tactic? I doubt they could turn the tide of the coming war, but maybe they could turn the tide of a battle. Camelyn?

[BNICK1026]

What about the possibility that Rand could be more directly related to Hawkwing than Tuon? I may be remebering incorrectly, but isn't Andor's Thrown based on how much of Hawkwing's blood they are? Or was this someone else? Couldn't it then be rationalized that Rand could be more 'Pureblooded Hawkwing' than Tuon since they can raise people to be of the 'Blood'? Since Rand's real mama is of Andoran royal blood perhaps that gives him a closer heir.

[Tiberius]

What about the possibility that Rand could be more directly related to Hawkwing than Tuon? I may be remebering incorrectly, but isn't Andor's Thrown based on how much of Hawkwing's blood they are? Or was this someone else? Couldn't it then be rationalized that Rand could be more 'Pureblooded Hawkwing' than Tuon since they can raise people to be of the 'Blood'? Since Rand's real mama is of Andoran royal blood perhaps that gives him a closer heir.

Say he is. Try convincing the empire of that. Not a chance. Besides, the seeds would have to already have been planted. I think Mat's connection to the empire is all the plot required.

[Durinax]

What about the possibility that Rand could be more directly related to Hawkwing than Tuon? I may be remebering incorrectly, but isn't Andor's Thrown based on how much of Hawkwing's blood they are? Or was this someone else? Couldn't it then be rationalized that Rand could be more 'Pureblooded Hawkwing' than Tuon since they can raise people to be of the 'Blood'? Since Rand's real mama is of Andoran royal blood perhaps that gives him a closer heir.

no they base their lines of descendance through to Ishara the original queen. Ishara was in cahoots with one of Hawkwings generals and pulled him from the siege of TV to carve andor out after Hawkwing died

[Durinax]

It's actually a pretty good idea, though. There's no prophecy of the Horn being used before the last battle. Maybe Mat will sound if for Rand for a parley. Probably not, but could be cool, nonetheless.

but there is the thing about "let he who sounds me think not of glory, but of salvation"

is preventing a war not salvation? is it not moreso if it is done before TG so they can all fight on the same side?

I do not see that as really being salvation because they are not in dire straights. When the horn was first blown it was in a situation where they would be destroyed completely if not the horn. atm they are not in a terribly dire situation where the horn is the only thing that could save them

[Tiberius]

I think it means salvation vs glory in the sense that the horn shouldn't/can't be used for personal gain. The person sounding the horn must be doing so for the "greater good".

[Luckers]

Indeed, it will be interesting to see how the Horn plays out in the end. It doesn't seem to have much going for it besides a hundred or so heroes, in the scope of things.. What role will it play? Seal Team 6 spec ops heroes? A diversion tactic? I doubt they could turn the tide of the coming war, but maybe they could turn the tide of a battle. Camelyn?

 

Here's a thing where, if it goes wrong, it's entirely on RJ. The Horn was built up way too much, way too early, and not seen for way too long. I don't see how any pay off is going to do that justice.

 

It's a similar point in regards to Moiraine's role in the plot (not her characterization--that's on Brandon too).

[FarShainMael]

So.. are we all suggesting that the future teeters on the edge of the blade of Justice in that: will Fortuona (mslf) take any notice of it? And of Hawkwing if he does turn up?

[Lisa Campbell]

Does anything say the Horn is needed to win the Last Battle? AFAIK, the horn was prophecied to surface before (just in time for) the LB. What if it's purpose is/was to force the Dragon Reborn to accept that he is who he is and proclaim himself? While it would be very cool to see the Heroes again, they're not necessary in the forthcoming showdown...

[Tiberius]

I don't think it's "needed" anymore. An unused plot device left on the shelf too long, perhaps. One way it might still prove useful, or even needed, is if it's used to save the life of someone critical to the light winning. It would have to be used on a small, tactical scale. It has to make an apparence, but I think it will be only for Mat's advantage (and everyone else by transitive) in a localized event.

[thisguy]

Does anything say the Horn is needed to win the Last Battle? AFAIK, the horn was prophecied to surface before (just in time for) the LB. What if it's purpose is/was to force the Dragon Reborn to accept that he is who he is and proclaim himself? While it would be very cool to see the Heroes again, they're not necessary in the forthcoming showdown...

The prophecy only says that that it needs to be found - actually, that it 'will' be found before the last battle. It seems more like a marker than a necessity.

[thisguy]

I don't think it's "needed" anymore. An unused plot device left on the shelf too long, perhaps. One way it might still prove useful, or even needed, is if it's used to save the life of someone critical to the light winning. It would have to be used on a small, tactical scale. It has to make an apparence, but I think it will be only for Mat's advantage (and everyone else by transitive) in a localized event.

 

I could also see it being a big deal if the forces of the DO have killed a bunch of the heroes in T-Rond and when Mat blows it like 30 show up or something.

[Tiberius]

I don't think it's "needed" anymore. An unused plot device left on the shelf too long, perhaps. One way it might still prove useful, or even needed, is if it's used to save the life of someone critical to the light winning. It would have to be used on a small, tactical scale. It has to make an apparence, but I think it will be only for Mat's advantage (and everyone else by transitive) in a localized event.

 

I could also see it being a big deal if the forces of the DO have killed a bunch of the heroes in T-Rond and when Mat blows it like 30 show up or something.

Well, if it's for a localized event, even one or two might make a difference...

BTW, What exactly are the properties of the heroes when called by the horn? Are they invincible? Can they be killed or banished back to TAR?

[Vardar]

I don't think it's "needed" anymore. An unused plot device left on the shelf too long, perhaps. One way it might still prove useful, or even needed, is if it's used to save the life of someone critical to the light winning. It would have to be used on a small, tactical scale. It has to make an apparence, but I think it will be only for Mat's advantage (and everyone else by transitive) in a localized event.

 

I could also see it being a big deal if the forces of the DO have killed a bunch of the heroes in T-Rond and when Mat blows it like 30 show up or something.

Well, if it's for a localized event, even one or two might make a difference...

BTW, What exactly are the properties of the heroes when called by the horn? Are they invincible? Can they be killed or banished back to TAR?

I don't think it's "needed" anymore. An unused plot device left on the shelf too long, perhaps. One way it might still prove useful, or even needed, is if it's used to save the life of someone critical to the light winning. It would have to be used on a small, tactical scale. It has to make an apparence, but I think it will be only for Mat's advantage (and everyone else by transitive) in a localized event.

 

I could also see it being a big deal if the forces of the DO have killed a bunch of the heroes in T-Rond and when Mat blows it like 30 show up or something.

Well, if it's for a localized event, even one or two might make a difference...

BTW, What exactly are the properties of the heroes when called by the horn? Are they invincible? Can they be killed or banished back to TAR?

 

Pretty much invincible. They can use magic like powers, and can't be harmed by weapons or the one power. Although I'm not sure if the full extent of their powers has ever been fully discussed or told. (If I'm wrong, someone will have a quote shortly, and I'd appreciate it personally).

[thisguy]

I don't think it's "needed" anymore. An unused plot device left on the shelf too long, perhaps. One way it might still prove useful, or even needed, is if it's used to save the life of someone critical to the light winning. It would have to be used on a small, tactical scale. It has to make an apparence, but I think it will be only for Mat's advantage (and everyone else by transitive) in a localized event.

 

I could also see it being a big deal if the forces of the DO have killed a bunch of the heroes in T-Rond and when Mat blows it like 30 show up or something.

Well, if it's for a localized event, even one or two might make a difference...

BTW, What exactly are the properties of the heroes when called by the horn? Are they invincible? Can they be killed or banished back to TAR?

That's a good question. They never really say. I do remember that the heroes push the Seanchan back and then the Seanchan push them back, etc, etc in the battle in EotW.

[Tiberius]

Yes. Because they are linked to the dragon. As his fight against Ishamael waxed and waned so did theirs. Hmmm...