Demandred's proxies

[Maleshub]

I think that Sammael thought that whatever it was would put an end to Rand because he believed that Demandred was behind it, not because of the thing itself. None of the options really make sense in that context, except maybe the Seanchan. And you could say that both Masema and the Dragonsworn were 'carving out' something.

 

If "end to him" refers to Rand, then the Seanchan is the mostly likely option, as you said. At the time, Sammael had his forces in a very favorable defensible position against Rand's hammer. If Rand were to split his forces and open another front with the powerful Seanchan, Sammael would get the opening he needs to strike at Rand's forces effectively.

 

True the Dragonsworn, Masema included, were carving out something. But compared to the Seanchan, their carvings were small. And the Dragonsworn were too "nomadic." They were carving out people and causing general chaos and suffering. They didn't carve out kingdoms. They seem to be more of a distraction; not a significant factor affecting/threatening Sammael's plans.

[Terez]

I think that Sammael thought that whatever it was would put an end to Rand because he believed that Demandred was behind it, not because of the thing itself. None of the options really make sense in that context, except maybe the Seanchan. And you could say that both Masema and the Dragonsworn were 'carving out' something.

 

If "end to him" refers to Rand, then the Seanchan is the mostly likely option, as you said.

 

That's not what I said, though. I don't think the Seanchan are the most likely option; I just think it's the only option that Sammael might believe would put an end to Rand for any other reason than Demandred being behind it.

 

True the Dragonsworn, Masema included, were carving out something. But compared to the Seanchan, their carvings were small.

 

I don't think it matters much.

 

And the Dragonsworn were too "nomadic." They were carving out people and causing general chaos and suffering.

 

Destabilizing a region is a good prelude to conquering it.

[Maleshub]

What are your thoughts on Alliandre's letter to Rand and the Shaido? The letter has always confused me as something out of the blue; whereas the Shaido was a genius maneuver to sow chaos and disrupt all his foes.

[Terez]

Alliandre's letter was just a clever way of asking for Rand's help with Masema. Not sure what that has to do with the Shaido.

[Maleshub]

Alliandre's letter was just a clever way of asking for Rand's help with Masema. Not sure what that has to do with the Shaido.

 

The assumption behind my question is that Sammael dispersed the Shaido in the west and southwest of Randland to draw Rand's attention there as well as disrupt Demandred's proxies "to the south." And Sammael "might be" (big speculation) behind Alliandre's letter to lure Rand to a "secure" domain (splitting Rand's effort and forces) that would put him in direct confrontation with the Seanchan. At the time of Alliandre's letter, Sammael's Illian was a buffer between Rand and the Seanchan threat.

[atlas74]

@Jake Barnes:

Atlas74 said: "Taken in the context of the conversation...there is nothing South of Illian other than the Isle of Madmen correct? So other than there being something that we don't know about I would think we need to take the comment meaning South from where Sammael was standing at that moment, which should be Arad Doman correct?"

 

Thank you for clarifying, as anyone can see from my original post I was clearly confused on where the conversation took place...

[JakeBarnes]

@Jake Barnes:

Atlas74 said: "Taken in the context of the conversation...there is nothing South of Illian other than the Isle of Madmen correct? So other than there being something that we don't know about I would think we need to take the comment meaning South from where Sammael was standing at that moment, which should be Arad Doman correct?"

 

Thank you for clarifying, as anyone can see from my original post I was clearly confused on where the conversation took place...

 

If you were standing in New York City I think it is safe to say that youwould refer to New Orleans as being 'To The South', yes?

[Terez]

I dunno. RJ was a Southerner; when we say 'the south' we mean a specific geographic region - the Deep South. It's hard to believe he was trying to imply anything different here, but we've tried to stretch the meaning over the years to find more possibilities for what he might have been talking about.

[Master of Germs]

I think that Sammael somewhat underestimates Mesaanna and Semirhage, so he credits Demandred for whatever has been done by the DMS alliance. He thinks they work together and he clearly does not know their exact whereabouts (even Graendal has just revealed Mesaanna's in WT). So, when Sammael refers to "the south" he considers everything from Tarabon to Murandy (Illan and Tear, of course, excluded). So, Seanchan, Masema and the dragonsworn, maybe even the Shadow Coast (there are some theories that Demandred uses this area as a hideout and a place to gather trolloc hordes). And last, but not least - Whitecloaks. Sammael and Demandred are known as great generals - they would not miss such a detail, even though it is not the size of Seanchan.

Something else strikes me. Pedron Niall is also considered a great captain but his actions seem quite unnatural to me. A great captain with a lot of experience should know what his armies are able to do. Obviously the whitecloaks are not prepared to execute his plan be the hero of the day after the rabid lion is let on the loose. So, why does he act in accordance with "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule" prescription. My opinion is that Niall is one of Demandred "proxies" without knowing it, i.e. Niall is under some form of Compulsion. The proxy can not be some lower rank Whitecloak, as the orders, supporting Demandred's goal come directly from Niall, who is definitely not a Darkfriend.

I don't know if this has been discussed as I don't visit the forum quite regularly. I found this topic just by randomly searching the net for the proxies of Demandred and possible connections with the Whitecloaks. I am currently doing my reread of the series and I've almost finished LoC.

I would appreciate every comment - critical or supporting :)