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Lanfear's new lover


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The gathering hunt chapter 7:

 

Daughter of the Night she walks again.

The ancient war, she yet fights.

Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still.

 

Now I've been thinking about this for some time. Rand seems to be the logical answer here, however he does not fit the picture of 'Her new lover'

Ever since he (when he wore the new Lews Therin) ditched Mierin, he never held any feelings for her anymore nor did he bed her. So why would Rand be her 'NEW lover'?

 

In tSR, Asmodean and Lanfear went into the waste, Asmo to obtain the Choedan Khal, Lanfear to trick him into serving Rand. This IMO seems very off considering how other Forsaken behave towards oneanother, if forsaken even work together, it's with the greatest suspicion and they always make sure they got some outs. Asmodean let himself fall to Lanfear's trap rather easily, almost as if he trusted her.

 

Now what makes my theory is that when Lanfear betrayed him, Asmodean did not scream: 'Lanfear!', but 'Mierin!'. Why would he use her old name? This seems to me that they new eachother before she turned to the shadow and gained her Forsaken name.

I think that after Lews Therin, Asmodean became Lanfear's lover. I don't make any illusions, Lanfear obviously did it for her own gain. But gentle naive Musician Asmo fell for her I think.

 

He became her new lover, who served her by teaching Rand and served that purpose until he died. Now the 'yet serve still' part is something I haven't been able to figure out, RJ said (I believe?) that Asmo was unable to return. However his serving still might simply apply to Rand thinking EVERYONE can turn to the light no matter how far they stand in the shadow. This in turn might make him vulnerable to Lanfear's trap at the end of ToM thinking he can actually safe her and make her walk in the light again, thus Asmo served even in dead.

 

What are your thoughts about this?

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interesting, but keep in mind that rand had this thought long before asmodean. ingtar first drove the point home, but the idea is a known thing for all westlanders. nobody can walk in the shadow so long that they cannot return to the light.

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interesting, but keep in mind that rand had this thought long before asmodean. ingtar first drove the point home, but the idea is a known thing for all westlanders. nobody can walk in the shadow so long that they cannot return to the light.

 

True, however, this was not applied for the Forsaken, the name itself indicates they are lost to the Shadow completely. I doubt Rand would have connected Ingtar (random DF doing it to help his nation) and Lanfear, one of the 13 legendary villains that people used to scare their children with.

 

Asmodean, one of the Forsaken, however, would serve this purpose. Perhaps it was not a service to Rand, to help her come back, but to Lanfear, making her realise that she can come back.

 

For the record, I don't think this is true, but it is a good theory, and I suppose it is possible.

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interesting, but keep in mind that rand had this thought long before asmodean. ingtar first drove the point home, but the idea is a known thing for all westlanders. nobody can walk in the shadow so long that they cannot return to the light.

 

True, however, this was not applied for the Forsaken, the name itself indicates they are lost to the Shadow completely. I doubt Rand would have connected Ingtar (random DF doing it to help his nation) and Lanfear, one of the 13 legendary villains that people used to scare their children with.

 

Asmodean, one of the Forsaken, however, would serve this purpose. Perhaps it was not a service to Rand, to help her come back, but to Lanfear, making her realise that she can come back.

 

For the record, I don't think this is true, but it is a good theory, and I suppose it is possible.

you and i run into eachother too often, people might start asking questions :unsure: , but anyway in general i agree with what you said, although i think your second paragraph needs a bit of clarification, i think i get what you meant there but i am not sure.

 

i think that you are saying that asmodean might put in rand's mind that perhaps even a forsaken can return to the light, and that his death while apparently serving rand would cement this into his mind, and thus he would serve cyandane/lanfear in his death by making rand think that one of the forsaken can return.

 

myself i have never thought there was a devide between the biggest baddest forsaken and the gentelest darkfriend, i think they can all return to the light if they want to, i actually belive that nobody can walk in the shadow so long as to not be able to walk back into the light. and i don't for a second believe that asmodean actualy turned. but i think he may have, and i think it is possible that lanfear might, but i find it unlikely, and that she should never be trusted even if she survives the sealing of the bore, she was pretty messed up in the head before she even drilled it.

 

but i think rand is likely of the same mindset as me concerning asmodean, i dont think he believes asmodean returned, and i'm pretty sure he thinks that asmodean found a chance to run away. he isn't aware that asmodean was killed, i'm sure he thinks that it is possible, but he has no idea.

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either way the op is right to question. we dont have a good explanation for the new lover unless we assume it is rand, and if so the prophecy is still active because rand hasn't died yet. and even if not we have not seen how this person serves her in death. it is an excellent question.

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I believe this theory even though I thought it was Rand at first. This says that Lanfear's new lover will die, which means that it can't be Rand (yet, he could still die, that is still an option), but the ancient war could still be her trying to get LTT or Rand to love her.

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True, I will never dispute her trying to get Rand I´m merely pressing the focus that Rand has rejected her since he (as LTT) has rejected her in the AOL. Thus he cannot be her new lover. She will probably try to get with him until one of them dies, and then she will stalk him in TAR. This however does not qualify as being a 'lover', merely being a stalker. Asmodean however perfectly fits the description imo. He calls her by her true name, he follows her instructions/actions blindly, he falls into her trap without any escape options (very unforsakenly). He serves her and by training Rand he served her in death. By giving Rand the idea that a Forsaken can serve him and maybe help him (even when he almost died in TSR), he could serve the part where she might trick him. Anybody has any hardcore prove or a good theory on why this isn't so? Anybody can support this theory with more proof? I'm stuck because I don't think the theory fits to Rand, yet the last part doesn't fit with asmo perfectly either, unless like above I stretch it (yes I know I stretch it). Constructive thoughts please!

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you and i run into eachother too often, people might start asking questions :unsure: , but anyway in general i agree with what you said, although i think your second paragraph needs a bit of clarification, i think i get what you meant there but i am not sure.

 

i think that you are saying that asmodean might put in rand's mind that perhaps even a forsaken can return to the light, and that his death while apparently serving rand would cement this into his mind, and thus he would serve cyandane/lanfear in his death by making rand think that one of the forsaken can return.

 

 

Haha, conspiracy? Nobody will ever know!

 

I wasn't actually talking about Rand, but Lanfear herself. I think what is more important in her turning back to the Light is not Rand "letting" her, but her actually thinking it is possible. For Rand, it is easy to think, he is the Dragon Reborn, the DO actually thinks enough of his power to call him the "ancient enemy". He is not bound to the Shadow as the Forsaken. While I still think that nobody thought that the Forsaken could ever turn back, it is not the point I was trying to make. The hardest part is convincing Lanfear.The almost fear the DO more than anybody else, Asmodean is pretty depressed and thinks that he would be begging Semirhage to take him if the DO got his hands on him for betrayal.

 

So, what I propose is that Asmodean served as an example not just to Rand, but Lanfear herself, seeing that maybe it is possible to turn back without being eternally tortured by the DO, since Asmodean, although he got killed randomly, wasn't dragged to Shayol Ghul screaming, or his soul enduring eternal torment. I think, if ToM epilogue from her is true, and not just a trap (or a trap, but Lanfear is actually being tortured) she wouldn't be too worried about dying, in fact I think it might be something she would like, compared to the torture, but fears that the DO will hold her soul. If she thinks of Asmodean, who died and escaped judgment, so to speak, it might convince her to turn back and help Rand. Or perhaps simply remembering Asmodean was forced to help Rand might give her the idea.

 

As I said, I still find this a stretch to believe, since we have no idea what Lanfear knew of Asmodean (both before and after her resurrection) or the nature of the "prophecy" which may or may not be entirely accurate, written by a Myrddraal (not even the Forsaken -Graendal- knew of them) why would a Myrddraal, and why would it write it down for everyone to see? Moridin has gone to great lengths to conceal these prophecies.

 

Simply too much to assume, it is possible and I do like the theory, but not enough is known for me, I can't say.

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yah i agree with you there barid, and thanks for the clarification, but like you said, too much to assume. i think it is allot of speculation (and you make allot of good points) without much to go on, but the prophecy doesn't appear to have been finished yet, so maybe we will get some idea of what it means in amol.

 

as i said in the previous post i think the op has come up with an excellent question, dont know if it has been posed this way before, but i could easily be wrong on that. but we dont have a clear answer to the meaning of that prophecy yet, and it seems to still be an active prophecy that hasn't been concluded, i really do hope that it makes sense by the end of amol.

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