The 3 ta'veren and dealing with women

[Maleshub]

What is the definition of "dealing with women" though?

 

1. Are we simply talking about convincing them to sleep with them?

 

2. Or are we talking about understanding them, so they don't say the wrong thing and get a good glaring at?

 

3. Or understanding how they think?

 

4. Which one has a more desirable personality for a woman?

 

5. Making them think they are not a stupid woolhead?

 

In each case it is different.

 

1. Definitely Mat, although Rand and Perrin haven't really tried.

2. I think ToM Rand. Mat and Perrin both say the wrong things constantly, still.

3. A hard one, but I would say Rand again. Mat has some...eccentric views, and Perrin just has no clue.

4. Well this one is subjective, although I would have to say, in a very, very, very general sense, Perrin, since Mat and Rand often clash with women, Perrin is the gentle giant, and Nynaeve/Egwene etc... have always thought of Perrin as the more sensible, cool-headed one.

5. I would have to say ToM Rand, although Min still thinks of him as a fool when he meets the Borderlander's, but in general, everyone is astounded by the new Rand, and thinks of him as pretty "wise", I suppose.

 

Rand has hurt the women around him intentionally. One of his lowest points is threatening to execute/kill Cadsuane for her alleged failure with Semirhage when it was Rand's orders to follow the UN Declaration on Human Rights with Semirhage (but not with Cadsuane) that increased the chances of her escape.

 

One of Rand's most idiotic ironies is how something inside him "shrivels" when a woman dies because of him. But he goes out and kills or hurts them with his hand or causes their death or hurt in other ways. There are so many instances of women fleeing Rand in terror that it is sad.

 

Perrin on the same scale uses all the women around him to save Faile; even when that places the lives of these women in significant danger. And he doesn't care about leashing 200+ Shaido channelers as long as that gets him Faile.

 

Mat is the only one that I fail to remember where he has hurt women or cause them harm (unless in self defense). His role in the books has always been as savior, even when it isn't required of him (Great Escape).

 

As to love, Rand had his women throw themselves at his feet; but he still couldn't figure out how to handle the situation. Perrin had Faile fall for him; and he tied his existence at her feet. Not much of a relationship when it is so one-sided (Faile's side obviously).

 

Mat knew his destiny was to marry Tuon; and he courted her for about 2 months during their escape from Ebou Dar. He began to love her and she began to trust him (or love him; but she still denies it). Yet, he was man enough to tell her that she isn't his enemy; but her empire is. And he insisted on the Band's independence when Elayne offered a commission. The man knows how to handle himself around women, without hurting them; and in most cases to help them at his own expense.

[Sephie913]

Everyone thinks Perrin's the lummox, huh? I kinda disagree.

 

At least, if we're talking romantically. Perrin and Faile's relationship comes the closest to a real, adult couple of anybody in the series. (Though the jealousy bit gets old REAL fast.) How they interact throught (most of) the series is the closest to a working, romantic relationship. Rand and Min are a close second, at least after ACoS.

 

If we're talking overall, not just romance, then I'd agree that Mat's best. Perrin has gotten good at making women do what he needs them to do, but he sees them mainly as a resource, compared to Faile. And Rand... *shudders* So yeah, Mat's the winner there, though he spends roughly half his life squabbling with them.

[TristanWebb]

But Perrin just fell into it. Faile chose him and when he tried to leave she forced Loial to take her as well. He didn't deal with her at all, she just said 'I like me some broad shoulders' and bam: done. Loial has as much choice in his wife as Perrin did.

[Barid Bel Medar]

@Theodril

 

I am talking about post-VoG Rand here, Rand/LTT, not Shadow-plagued Rand.

 

Not sure if this is what the OP meant, or we are talking about "from the events in the book" who is the best at dealing with women.

 

I took it on their personalities (obviously as of ToM) as to who was best able to deal with women.

 

It seems I was wrong on that, so your points, I agree with them, its just not what I was originally talking about.

 

 

At least, everyone can surely agree that Perrin is just simply hopeless, any time in the books, he just doesn't understand, good old simple blacksmith. (Which I suppose is a part of his charm.)

 

Edit: whoops, it seems that no, we cannot, just saw the poll. I wonder how or why anyone thinks that Perrin is better at this than either Rand or Mat?

[Vardar]

What is the definition of "dealing with women" though?

 

1. Are we simply talking about convincing them to sleep with them?

 

2. Or are we talking about understanding them, so they don't say the wrong thing and get a good glaring at?

 

3. Or understanding how they think?

 

4. Which one has a more desirable personality for a woman?

 

5. Making them think they are not a stupid woolhead?

 

In each case it is different.

 

1. Definitely Mat, although Rand and Perrin haven't really tried.

2. I think ToM Rand. Mat and Perrin both say the wrong things constantly, still.

3. A hard one, but I would say Rand again. Mat has some...eccentric views, and Perrin just has no clue.

4. Well this one is subjective, although I would have to say, in a very, very, very general sense, Perrin, since Mat and Rand often clash with women, Perrin is the gentle giant, and Nynaeve/Egwene etc... have always thought of Perrin as the more sensible, cool-headed one.

5. I would have to say ToM Rand, although Min still thinks of him as a fool when he meets the Borderlander's, but in general, everyone is astounded by the new Rand, and thinks of him as pretty "wise", I suppose.

 

I'd have to say if Mat wins #1, then obviously he win's number 3. In order to convince them to sleep with you, just like the real world, you must understand how they think. Just because Mat frequently pisses them off doesn't mean he doesn't understand them, in fact he usually does it on purpose.

 

As to number 5, Hmm. That isn't really a valid question. Women will think what they want regardless of what you do, just like real life. What it comes down too is not caring if they think you're a woolhead. Mat doesn't give a damn. Gotta love him for it.

[Maleshub]

@Theodril

 

I am talking about post-VoG Rand here, Rand/LTT, not Shadow-plagued Rand.

 

Not sure if this is what the OP meant, or we are talking about "from the events in the book" who is the best at dealing with women.

 

I took it on their personalities (obviously as of ToM) as to who was best able to deal with women.

 

It seems I was wrong on that, so your points, I agree with them, its just not what I was originally talking about.

 

 

At least, everyone can surely agree that Perrin is just simply hopeless, any time in the books, he just doesn't understand, good old simple blacksmith. (Which I suppose is a part of his charm.)

 

The poll question intended to take all the books into account, not just where the three ta'veren stand at the end of ToM. But even if we look at Rand post-VOG, do you remember his talk with Min as they were heading to meet the Borderlanders. Min wasn't sure who Rand was. And when I read that conversation a second time, I don't think he soothed Min's fears. On the contrary, he might have made her more confused with "I am me; but he's always been me; and I've always been him." He was way too philosophical in the conversation to allay her concern. (personal opinion, of course, of how I read that :) )

[TristanWebb]

Or maybe he knows all about Min's love of philosophy and tailored his explaination to her understanding. Sounds like something someone who knows how to deal with the ladies would do.

[Barid Bel Medar]

To be fair, that scene wasn't exactly the best example, it was not the best time to have that conversation, Rand has a lot on his mind at this point, he wouldn't be focused on Min. Besides, his answer made sense, at least to me. Min got a bit confused, but she accepts his answer and isn't too worried.

 

Look at the other scenes in ToM.

 

He reads Egwene like a book and she reacts exactly how he wanted her to. He gets the best of Cadsuane a few times, and even leaves her speechless once. (not gaping mouth, but with no response)

 

The rest of his interaction with Min is almost spot on. Look at Bandar Eban and after Maradon.

 

He even convinces Nynaeve he has to break the seals. Convincing Nynaeve of anything is nearly impossible. Mat or Perrin certainly couldn't do it.

 

But as you said, it is a matter of interpretation I suppose. I see Mat as just a loveable guy. Although his courting of Tuon was pretty epic, he gets by being charming, he says stupid things and gets women angry, but they just can't help but forgive him.

 

Naturally, Mat has a gift with the ladies, but Rand Sedai is more aware and precise in his dealings with women.

[Maleshub]

Anyone else interested in voting/discussing this topic?

[Sasha Grayes]

i was under the impression that rand has slept with egwene.

[Maleshub]

i was under the impression that rand has slept with egwene.

 

Their relationship was Platonic. They were promised to each other since adolescence; and they started the books on the verge of marriage (Egwene braiding her hair; and Rand having the jitters about getting married to Egwene because of how they argue and are both stubborn). They hug and show affection to each other; but they never even kiss.

 

That relationship covered nearly three books; and for me it was nice and sad to read!

[Sasha Grayes]

it wasn't said and implied. But come on, teenage kids that have been promised for marriage sure would have likely fooled around. That barn over there is probably empty...

[TristanWebb]

Premarital sex in the two rivers is a big deal. I doubt it happened.

[True Source Creator]

Who's the best in bed? Probably Mat...he seems to have the most experience.

 

Who's most likely to have a threesome, though? Rand...so that's a win for him.

[Maleshub]

it wasn't said and implied. But come on, teenage kids that have been promised for marriage sure would have likely fooled around. That barn over there is probably empty...

Premarital sex in the two rivers is a big deal. I doubt it happened.

 

Egwene is portrayed as very conservative on the issue of premarital sex. And in the 3 books where her relationship to Rand was on the block, they hug, but never kiss. The same goes for Nynaeve, her mentor, who married Lan before bedding him!

 

Aside from the inn encounters in Cairhien (which didn't go all the way to bed), she treated Gawyn the same way in the waking world (TAR is a totally different issue!). She refused to get married to him without her parents there. Gawyn thought that despite being an Amyrlin, Egwene remained a conservative farmer's daughter (don't have the exact quote; but I think that's the general sense of his thought).