The Dark One, the mysterious motives of the mysterious entity

[Barid Bel Medar]

All you see is the dome spurting gouts of fire and one piece falling off it and tumbling to the ground. The bore could of been drilled hours before (unlikely since no one was panicking but theoretically possible) and the black fire just built up slowly before it filled the whole thing, there is nothing from the inside to know what happened.

 

Yeah, and I doubt Lanfear would have been in the middle of the Sharom.

 

She would likely be standing some distance away on the ground.

 

Also, I assume that there would have been precautions and security would have been pretty tight. It was unexpected that it would go down exactly like it did, but for a project that dangerous and risky (since it was a totally unknown power) they would have taken steps to ensure as much safety as possible.

 

Besides, AoL Healing was sweet. One only needed to have a spark of life left in their body to be healed. Scars would not be a problem either, since Semirhage can remove scars, and it was supposedly a common thing in the AoL according to Graendal.

 

So Lanfear could have been badly injured and healed, we have no idea. Point is there are many explanations, it would not be that big a problem really. Except for the people inside the Sharom at the time, they might not be so lucky.

[Vardar]

All you see is the dome spurting gouts of fire and one piece falling off it and tumbling to the ground. The bore could of been drilled hours before (unlikely since no one was panicking but theoretically possible) and the black fire just built up slowly before it filled the whole thing, there is nothing from the inside to know what happened.

 

Yeah, and I doubt Lanfear would have been in the middle of the Sharom.

 

She would likely be standing some distance away on the ground.

 

Also, I assume that there would have been precautions and security would have been pretty tight. It was unexpected that it would go down exactly like it did, but for a project that dangerous and risky (since it was a totally unknown power) they would have taken steps to ensure as much safety as possible.

 

Besides, AoL Healing was sweet. One only needed to have a spark of life left in their body to be healed. Scars would not be a problem either, since Semirhage can remove scars, and it was supposedly a common thing in the AoL according to Graendal.

 

So Lanfear could have been badly injured and healed, we have no idea. Point is there are many explanations, it would not be that big a problem really. Except for the people inside the Sharom at the time, they might not be so lucky.

 

I read it to be her and the other guy (who's name escapes me) were drilling the bore together. And he was kiled in the blast, she somehow survived. I tend to think that she did know what she was doing, that she knew what was behind that hole she was making.

[TristanWebb]

Even inside, fires can spread slowly enough that you can outpace them at a walk. It could of taken several minutes for the DO to push out of a pinprick in the prison and we are just seeing the point where the balloon pops, not the pressure building up.

 

Two people standing in the middle channelling a bore and a small black fire of the TP appears, they try to douse it, it doesn't work, they try to contain it with the rest of the people who would be there supporting the boring, it doesn't work, so they evacuate, the fire fills the place and pop, no more floating orb.

 

Seems reasonable outside of a RJ quote and fits what we know, that an aiel got bumped down on his way to his aes sedai and then saw the Sharom burst and ran towards it.

 

Like a nuclear meltdown, it is dangerous and people are probably gonna die, but you still have time to make it out while Homer is catching tigers.

[Suttree]

I read it to be her and the other guy (who's name escapes me) were drilling the bore together. And he was kiled in the blast, she somehow survived. I tend to think that she did know what she was doing, that she knew what was behind that hole she was making.

 

If you are referring to Beidomon he didn't die in the blast...

[Vardar]

I read it to be her and the other guy (who's name escapes me) were drilling the bore together. And he was kiled in the blast, she somehow survived. I tend to think that she did know what she was doing, that she knew what was behind that hole she was making.

 

If you are referring to Beidomon he didn't die in the blast...

 

Well then that explains my confusion.

[IAlsoEnjoyTheSeries]

Didn't beidomon Balefire himself in an attempt to reverse what he had done? I heard that somewhere but can't remember but discussion board

[Barid Bel Medar]

Didn't beidomon Balefire himself in an attempt to reverse what he had done? I heard that somewhere but can't remember but discussion board

 

No. That is most likely speculation.

 

He killed himself because of the guilt. No mention of how, so it could be possible, but evidently his efforts were unsuccessful

[Vardar]

Didn't beidomon Balefire himself in an attempt to reverse what he had done? I heard that somewhere but can't remember but discussion board

 

That's pretty bloody brilliant. But if you Balefire yourself, wouldn't it be like you never did it? Thus wouldn't it be impossible to balefire yourself?

 

If I balefire you, but then someone else balefires me right after, do you come back? What happens? If they balefire the guy who balefired me, Then what happens?!?!?!

 

MY HEAD!

[Barid Bel Medar]

Didn't beidomon Balefire himself in an attempt to reverse what he had done? I heard that somewhere but can't remember but discussion board

 

That's pretty bloody brilliant. But if you Balefire yourself, wouldn't it be like you never did it? Thus wouldn't it be impossible to balefire yourself?

 

If I balefire you, but then someone else balefires me right after, do you come back? What happens? If they balefire the guy who balefired me, Then what happens?!?!?!

 

MY HEAD!

 

heh. here we go, one to sooth your head.

INTERVIEW: Sep 20th, 1999

 

Brisbane Signing Report - Joel Gilmore (Paraphrased)

 

 

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

Ok, first and foremost we have an answer to the

balefire

-

balefire

paradox. If A balefires B, then C balefires A, B WILL come back alive again. I explored this quite thoroughly with him, getting him to repeat himself more than once. It is definite. It is over.

[A. Pseudonym]

There is a lot to be said here for RJ's physics background, especially in the context of determinism. Now what follows is my interpretation of the fictional metaphysics in this vein, so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

If the Creator creates and the Dark One is the "dark counterpart", then it would seem that he destroys. It is his goal to destroy the reality of the Wheel as the creation of his counterpart and/or to escape the prison that it represents to him. If indeed he is imprisoned and not just outside reality.

 

To Moridin, existence seems like a never-ending samsara where he is reborn to suffer without end and without any hope of change, improvement or escape. He is an unwilling slave to Fate and he wants to escape the tyranny of the wheel. His goal is very buddhist. Remember that the goal of buddhism is the eventual oblivion of the Self through a process of rebirth and enlightenment. This occurs through reaching nirvana where all suffering ends and with it the process of rebirth.

To Moridin, who alone among darkfriends actually seems to understand and support the Dark One's goal, the Dark One's capacity to destroy all reality is Moridin's only "hope" of escaping determinism and finding a final peace in oblivion. Contrast this with Rand's acceptance of this same determinism in VoG where he sees the chance to relive life again and again as desirable.

 

Then contrast this with Nietzsche's Eternal Recurrence: http://en.wikipedia....rnal_Recurrence

It's identical. But N. asks the reader whether one would choose this. The answer measures how self-hating or life-hating the person is. Whether one could accept suffering as the necessity for life, that the price of life is life. Again, with Rand and Moridin this holds true. Rand wants to love again, for the sake of love, and is accepting of the necessity of being the Dragon, eternally. Moridin wants escape. So Rand loves life while Moridin hates it.

 

The Wheel is Fate. It spins out the Pattern of reality.... which when broken down to it's simplest represents the interaction of "threads" (phenomena) together to bring about causality (contrast this with String Theory). This Wheel was created by the Creator and through this creation imprisoned the Dark One - either as a side-effect of Creation or as the original intent. Or the Dark One is not imprisoned but in some way "exists" outside of reality, perhaps as or in "nothingness". The Dark One as Chaos and the embodiment of disorder is antithetical to the order of the Pattern. He represents random as opposed to deterministic... in other words quantum mechanics as opposed to newtonian physics. Free Will as opposed to hard determinism which does not allow for any such freedom as every action comes about as the consequence of past action.

 

Moridin is a useful tool because he understands and supports the goal, if for perhaps a different reason than the Dark One. The other Darkfriends, including the Forsaken, do not understand the end goal and assume that they will be made into immortal rulers of the Shadow Randland after they win. This is why Verin describes the Shadow as selfish: The Dark One deceives the majority of his servants with a false hope of immortal rulership. They do it for their own advantage, without knowing that they will only be used and abused. As most of the darkfriends in the series have been so far. Terribly. Carridin, for example. He was dead meat from the start. But if your servants are selfish and act only for self-aggrandisement then you only need to dangle a carrot before their collective noses and they will do anything for you. Even if the carrot is a lie. And he is the Father of Lies...

Only Moridin, again, shares the same goal. But for him too his allegiance to the Shadow is selfish - an end to samsara.

 

-----

 

What I don't understand is the Dark One's relationship to death. He seems to control the souls of the dead, or the dead appear as the Pattern thins as the seals weaken.

But the Heros are kept in TAR between lives, as are the wolves, so is TAR the afterlife, the Dark One's realm?

[bobarose]

order and chaos are not a 50/50 split i figure order to be 95% law in this universe.so chaos is just trying to grab a bigger share of the pot.

the bore is its key to the door into the universe.rand has to shut the door for good.

[Iodine]

I can't help but think of the Dark One vs. Creator almost exactly like Ruin vs. Preservation from Mistborn (more forces of nature than true gods). But if it's more than a simple good vs. evil or order vs. chaos, the only decent explanation for why the Creator just imprisoned and didn't kill/destroy the DO outright that I can think of is if the Dark One was born out of people's lust for power, greed, hatred, etc, the same way Mashadar (and somewhat Machin Shin) came about.

 

If the DO were actually born of these these "evil"/negative traits, it would explain why his goals are not simply destruction of time/the Pattern/everything, but to gain control (or remake his own version) instead, why he encourages in-fighting (vying for power) between his minions (values the traits that he is spawned from), and all that stuff. Also, if that were actually the case, it would probably mean that the DO is an unavoidable byproduct of people/free will, if they really have any free will other than what the Pattern chooses. Hence imprisonment of the DO instead of removal/killing/destruction by the Creator (if the choice is life with an imprisoned byproduct DO, or no life/no humans/no free will). But it's probably just a simple good vs. evil/order vs. chaos thing. I really hope it's not just a high-stakes Sha'rah/stones game between two bored deities, though.

[Vardar]

order and chaos are not a 50/50 split i figure order to be 95% law in this universe.so chaos is just trying to grab a bigger share of the pot.

the bore is its key to the door into the universe.rand has to shut the door for good.

 

Well Order is just forged Chaos, so that's why people generally think it's 50/50.