Wombat's Basic Mafia v. 2.0.1

[mmeeshal]

Thorum is not a sheep, he's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Are you just saying that, Mynd?

[Myndrunner]

Un-Official Vote Count:

 

 

Thorum (5): aemonkristen, GraendalsFavorite, Levity, Meeshal, BG

Levity (3): Christine, Mr. Soy Boyo, Myndrunner,

aemonkristen (3): amegakure, Red2111, Sakaea

amegakure (1): Amadine

 

 

7 to lynch

 

Deadline: http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=a&year=2012&month=1&day=18&hour=0&min=0&sec=0&p0=43

 

Note that Thorum's vote of Aemon Kitten doesn't count (not in red) unless the Mod allows it. That would place AK tied with Levity and Thorum for votes, and we need 3 more to lynch.

 

Thorum's moves have been contradictory to his statements, and he seems to be cherry-picking which lynch to join. He tried to sneak in on my vote, then backpedaled and tried to be antagonistic rather than explain his stance. I'm fine with his lynch but....

 

The way I see it, lynching Levity could shed some light on Amega (because of her defense) and Thorum (because how he defended her). It might also explain why Meesh came out of the woodwork all of a sudden when Lev felt insulted. That's got mafia QT communication written all over it. That and Meesh swooping in behind Levity to vote Thorum, thus saving Lev (prior to BG's vote) pretty much clinches it.

 

Levity is the way to go. Agree?

[Myndrunner]

Thorum is not a sheep, he's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Are you just saying that, Mynd?

 

I mean it. He is trying to latch onto the lynch he feels has the most success, instead of doing a proper casing and going after the player he feels is most scum. He's trying to act like a sheep but he's reeking of scum.

 

I do feel that lynching Levity will tell us a lot about you. If she flips scum, you are most likely with her. If she flips town, I'll feel a lot better about you swooping in to save her (twice).

[Sakaea]

Unvote

I'll be watching the thread off and on, I'll vote before the DL.

[Levity]

does anyone else feel a strange air to BG? He chimes in to vote whomever he feels might be lynched and then falls back into the shadows, and it's all he does.

[Levity]

also, um, I already stated before that defending players =/= scum, but I feel now that my statements are being ignored anyway since I'm probably being lynched. I find my lynch a little unfair, but I guess if it sheds more light on the Amega misunderstanding then at least town gets something out of that, but /: No, I don't know what Thorum is doing, but I don't like it either.

[mmeeshal]

The way I see it, lynching Levity could shed some light on Amega (because of her defense) and Thorum (because how he defended her). It might also explain why Meesh came out of the woodwork all of a sudden when Lev felt insulted. That's got mafia QT communication written all over it. That and Meesh swooping in behind Levity to vote Thorum, thus saving Lev (prior to BG's vote) pretty much clinches it.

Italics--I also came out of the woodwork to correct you when you called Sakaea a boy. What of it? I don't really know what kind of agenda I could be pushing by telling you that my stance on personal insults is to avoid them so as not to accidentally cause legitimate harm to another person's feelings. I would have been insulted had you said that to me, so I said something about it.

 

Bold--I suppose "ninja'd" doesn't mean anything to you. Seriously, I'm filling out job applications and checking DM intermittently. I use "Fast Reply" so ninja-posts happen a lot. Levity hadn't voted when I started typing. Assuming you were correct, though, and it's all about taking mafia QT direction (which is somewhat insulting, by the way, because I like to think I have more of a brain than that, after playing mafia for so long, and you know I'm perfectly capable of thinking for myself) and saving Levity's butt, why would I be that obvious, pray tell, if I could also use my job-application-filling-out as an excuse to just wait to slip in later or something? I mean, really. You're picking out the stupidest things.

[Myndrunner]

also, um, I already stated before that defending players =/= scum, but I feel now that my statements are being ignored anyway since I'm probably being lynched. I find my lynch a little unfair, but I guess if it sheds more light on the Amega misunderstanding then at least town gets something out of that, but /: No, I don't know what Thorum is doing, but I don't like it either.

 

Defending players doesn't always equal scum, but it can tell a lot about one player's alignment. For example, Meesh swooping in and voting Thorum right behind you is the second time she's come to your aid. It is almost as if the two of you are communicating off thread together. Occam's Razor would lead one to believe the two of you are both scum and coordinating your moves together on the Mafia QT, but there can be other, less scum reasons as well (masons, telepathy, etc).

 

Also, have you considered that Amega might be scum and that his lynch might have actually saved you? Defending a player of whom you don't know their alignment can be tricky. Aemon Kitten might be the scumfather for all I know, but his actions so far in this game have placed him much lower on my list of suspects than you and Thorum. If he were to be lynched and flip scum, I would expect heat on me for defending him earlier.

 

Thorum, on the other hand, has been sneaky - even more than normal for him. In fact, Thorum typically uses charts, graphs, and numbers when he's town. He's meticulous with his casings, but his emotions can cloud his judgement sometimes. Here, he is being sneaky, latching onto the lynch he feels will have the most momentum, having nothing to do with who he believes is scum. To me, that's a huge scum tell.

[Myndrunner]

You're picking out the stupidest things.[/color]

 

I'm insulted!

 

You have to admit, twice you have swooped in behind Levity. Ninja'd or not, your actions have been in sync. The thing is, if Levity flips town, that makes you less likely scum, so I'm not sure why you are objecting to this. Perhaps you are still cross with me and that's clouding your judgement?

[Levity]

except that you're forgetting the part that I wasn't defending Amega in the first place, you blew my statement out of proportion, and then proceeded to ignored all of the defenses that I made as well as some of the statements others made on the matter about it. If you're going to ignore what I say in favor of your stubborn minset, what point is there in me trying to defend myself?

[Myndrunner]

except that you're forgetting the part that I wasn't defending Amega in the first place, you blew my statement out of proportion, and then proceeded to ignored all of the defenses that I made as well as some of the statements others made on the matter about it. If you're going to ignore what I say in favor of your stubborn minset, what point is there in me trying to defend myself?

 

You were defending Amega, though you may not see it as such. You were trying to explain the actions that caused us to vote for him, and you actually did a much better job of it than he did even though it conflicted with his own defense. Problem is, everything you argued only works under the assumption that he is town. How could you or anyone know his alignment unless either he's town and you are scum or you both are?

[Levity]

As I said before, Amega could easily be scum as well as town. If we needed to lynch Amega, I wasn't going to oppose to it. I was just making a statement, which you, again, blew out of proportion, even if you do not see it as such.

[mmeeshal]

You're picking out the stupidest things.[/color]

 

I'm insulted!

 

You have to admit, twice you have swooped in behind Levity. Ninja'd or not, your actions have been in sync. The thing is, if Levity flips town, that makes you less likely scum, so I'm not sure why you are objecting to this. Perhaps you are still cross with me and that's clouding your judgement?

Honestly? I just think that this whole idea of linking people over non-game-related things is ridiculous. Levity is my friend outside of DM. We have a lot in common. If you had said to some other random person what you said to Levity, I would have still said "hey, watch it," but no, I admit I got more heated because I know Levity and you don't, and I knew that since it came across as insulting to ME, that she wouldn't have been lying when she said she felt insulted as well.

 

Okay, so why am I protesting against your logic? According to you, Levity's alignment will say a lot about me.

 

If she flips town, it makes me less likely scum according to you, but there is a problem with that--maybe I'm scum and I know she's town, and I'm attaching myself to a townie who's been ganged up on in order to make myself look more golden should she end up dead.

 

If she flips mafia, presumably then you'd think I must have been on a team with her after all--but what real information do you have that points to that? I have only defended her from a perceived personal attack. I could be town who is being honest in her reactions and who defended a friend without thought for anyone's alignment.

 

Basically, Mynd, you can't draw any real conclusions based on the two actions you've pointed to. If she's town, I could be town, or I could be scum. If she's scum, I could be town, or I could be scum.

 

Granted, I don't have a problem with lynching Levity--Thorum has appeared more scummy to me personally, but I agree that Levity's given us plenty of information to work with. I just don't like how you point to such blatantly unrelated things and say it could actually be informative in regards to my alignment.

[Myndrunner]

You're picking out the stupidest things.[/color]

 

I'm insulted!

 

You have to admit, twice you have swooped in behind Levity. Ninja'd or not, your actions have been in sync. The thing is, if Levity flips town, that makes you less likely scum, so I'm not sure why you are objecting to this. Perhaps you are still cross with me and that's clouding your judgement?

Honestly? I just think that this whole idea of linking people over non-game-related things is ridiculous. Levity is my friend outside of DM. We have a lot in common. If you had said to some other random person what you said to Levity, I would have still said "hey, watch it," but no, I admit I got more heated because I know Levity and you don't, and I knew that since it came across as insulting to ME, that she wouldn't have been lying when she said she felt insulted as well.

 

Okay, so why am I protesting against your logic? According to you, Levity's alignment will say a lot about me.

 

If she flips town, it makes me less likely scum according to you, but there is a problem with that--maybe I'm scum and I know she's town, and I'm attaching myself to a townie who's been ganged up on in order to make myself look more golden should she end up dead.

 

If she flips mafia, presumably then you'd think I must have been on a team with her after all--but what real information do you have that points to that? I have only defended her from a perceived personal attack. I could be town who is being honest in her reactions and who defended a friend without thought for anyone's alignment.

 

Basically, Mynd, you can't draw any real conclusions based on the two actions you've pointed to. If she's town, I could be town, or I could be scum. If she's scum, I could be town, or I could be scum.

 

Granted, I don't have a problem with lynching Levity--Thorum has appeared more scummy to me personally, but I agree that Levity's given us plenty of information to work with. I just don't like how you point to such blatantly unrelated things and say it could actually be informative in regards to my alignment.

 

You can't just call something ridiculous and call me a meany-head because you don't like it, especially if there is evidence to support my theory. You defended Lev when she felt insulted by my gameplay, then swooped in again to vote Thorum when at the time, Lev was the high lynch candidate. You claimed to be ninja'd, but that is only because Lev was voting at the same time as you. Coincidence or cooperation, it happened. Pouting will not change reality.

[Levity]

Mynd just likes the sound of his own thoughts and he's stubborn. Others can see he's jumping at shadows, taking things out of proportion, making mountains out of molehills, and what have you, and while, yes, some of his statements have merit, it really doesn't make his theories 100% infallible. Now, he can believe this to be the truth, and that's fine. I, however, don't agree with his certain style of thinking, and that it can either severely damage the town or give it an advantage. This does, of course, highly depend on his alignment, and he still goes either way for me right now. By past experience and from my perspective, he is probably likely to be scum, pushing townie lynches and using "everyone knows how I play" as an excuse. If Thorum were to flip town, too, he and Aemon or BG might be on a team. I think Thorum is scummy as well but I do not think he and Mynd are on a team based on the way they associate with each other.

[Myndrunner]

Mynd just likes the sound of his own thoughts and he's stubborn. Others can see he's jumping at shadows, taking things out of proportion, making mountains out of molehills, and what have you, and while, yes, some of his statements have merit, it really doesn't make his theories 100% infallible. Now, he can believe this to be the truth, and that's fine. I, however, don't agree with his certain style of thinking, and that it can either severely damage the town or give it an advantage. This does, of course, highly depend on his alignment, and he still goes either way for me right now. By past experience and from my perspective, he is probably likely to be scum, pushing townie lynches and using "everyone knows how I play" as an excuse. If Thorum were to flip town, too, he and Aemon or BG might be on a team. I think Thorum is scummy as well but I do not think he and Mynd are on a team based on the way they associate with each other.

 

So, if Thorum flips scum.......what does that tell you based on your assumption bolded above?

[Levity]

You're probably town, in which case I was wrong about you being scummy. I can admit when I'm wrong, and you know what I was saying: you and Thorum have equals chances at being scum, but I find it unlikely that you are both scum.

 

The thing is, after actually sleeping last night, I felt I might have been pinning you down as scum too much in relation to your playstyle. I see players too many times using "I'm always this aggressive and ridiculous" to cover up for their actions when they end up getting town mislynched, instead blaming it on the other players for poor defenses or "look at all of the information we got out of this lynch, anyway!" when we're not even sure that info in itself even has as much merit as you claim it to be. However, when looking back, I feel perhaps I needed a bit more to go off of in regards to player alignment flips and such, but I guess that's moot if I end up dying first anyway.

[Levity]

Also ugh don't mind the typos please, my keyboard phone is uncooperative

[Amadine]

With only a few hours to deadline i will

 

UNVOTE

VOTE THORUM

 

by my count that is L-1. I prefer to pursue Amega or even BG to be honest since <meta> his playstyle is way out of whack on this game </meta> but this close to deadline i don't see how that would be of any use to reaching a consensus.

 

However on Thorum, his vote won't count according to the rules, and i think it was done similarly to Mynd's - which i still think is scummy by the way Mynd, despite your explanation. I also don't like the timestamp theory.

[mmeeshal]

You can't just call something ridiculous and call me a meany-head because you don't like it, especially if there is evidence to support my theory. You defended Lev when she felt insulted by my gameplay, then swooped in again to vote Thorum when at the time, Lev was the high lynch candidate. You claimed to be ninja'd, but that is only because Lev was voting at the same time as you. Coincidence or cooperation, it happened. Pouting will not change reality.

I love it when people put words in my mouth.

 

I actually claimed to be ninja'd because I was, and because I use that as a way of saying "my above post may not be as relevant anymore based on new information." I didn't even know what any of the posts ninja-ing me said when I posted my "ninja'd."

 

I'm not denying that I happened to post my vote change right after Levity, and that we both voted for Thorum. I'm not denying that I said something about your apparent personal attack on her (which, as I have already acknowledged, was due to a misunderstanding as to your meaning, so please stop acting like I'm only saying anything because I think you're mean--that's belittling and it doesn't make me think any more highly of your agenda in this game).

 

All I said is that those things can be as innocuous as they can be meaningful. They could be signs of cooperation, but they could, just as easily, be coincidence. All I am objecting to is your assumption that because of those particular actions, our alignments must be the same. It has nothing to do with alignment or role. (for reference, look up Blackhoof's Ghost Town game, where I was accused over and over of being on Nolder's team because I agreed with a couple of his points and defended him from personal attacks, and we were not on the same team at all.)

 

So yeah, if you could please stop making me out to be playing like a baby, I'd appreciate it. I do actually have a head on my shoulders and I've been using it. I haven't once made any sort of game-related push based solely on likes, dislikes, or emotions.

[Myndrunner]

Un-Official Vote Count:

 

 

Thorum (6): aemonkristen, GraendalsFavorite, Levity, Meeshal, BG, Amadine

Levity (3): Christine, Mr. Soy Boyo, Myndrunner,

aemonkristen (2): amegakure, Red2111,

 

7 to lynch

 

Deadline: http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=a&year=2012&month=1&day=18&hour=0&min=0&sec=0&p0=43

 

With Amadine's vote, that's L-1 for Thorum. I think Lev's lynch would have been more informative, plus would have likely been a scum read. I also agree that BG is worth a look tomorrow as well.

 

With that, let's do this.

 

unvote

 

Thorum

[Myndrunner]

I love it when people put words in my mouth.

 

I actually claimed to be ninja'd because I was, and because I use that as a way of saying "my above post may not be as relevant anymore based on new information." I didn't even know what any of the posts ninja-ing me said when I posted my "ninja'd."

 

I'm not denying that I happened to post my vote change right after Levity, and that we both voted for Thorum. I'm not denying that I said something about your apparent personal attack on her (which, as I have already acknowledged, was due to a misunderstanding as to your meaning, so please stop acting like I'm only saying anything because I think you're mean--that's belittling and it doesn't make me think any more highly of your agenda in this game).

 

All I said is that those things can be as innocuous as they can be meaningful. They could be signs of cooperation, but they could, just as easily, be coincidence. All I am objecting to is your assumption that because of those particular actions, our alignments must be the same. It has nothing to do with alignment or role. (for reference, look up Blackhoof's Ghost Town game, where I was accused over and over of being on Nolder's team because I agreed with a couple of his points and defended him from personal attacks, and we were not on the same team at all.)

 

So yeah, if you could please stop making me out to be playing like a baby, I'd appreciate it. I do actually have a head on my shoulders and I've been using it. I haven't once made any sort of game-related push based solely on likes, dislikes, or emotions.

 

You do realize that your vote of Thorum essentially saved Lev, right?

[mmeeshal]

You do realize that your vote of Thorum essentially saved Lev, right?

Only because other people agreed that Thorum was worth lynching. If Levity had kept the lead, I would have switched my vote to her. My vote wasn't set in stone; I'm sitting in front of my computer filling out job apps; I can check in whenever I want to and I knew I'd be around plenty before the deadline. Thorum was only supposed to be tied with Aemon after I cast my vote.

[Myndrunner]

You do realize that your vote of Thorum essentially saved Lev, right?

Only because other people agreed that Thorum was worth lynching. If Levity had kept the lead, I would have switched my vote to her. My vote wasn't set in stone; I'm sitting in front of my computer filling out job apps; I can check in whenever I want to and I knew I'd be around plenty before the deadline. Thorum was only supposed to be tied with Aemon after I cast my vote.

 

Wait a minute! You just said you got Ninja'd! According to you, when you were casting your vote, Lev was the high lynch candidate!

[mmeeshal]

You do realize that your vote of Thorum essentially saved Lev, right?

Only because other people agreed that Thorum was worth lynching. If Levity had kept the lead, I would have switched my vote to her. My vote wasn't set in stone; I'm sitting in front of my computer filling out job apps; I can check in whenever I want to and I knew I'd be around plenty before the deadline. Thorum was only supposed to be tied with Aemon after I cast my vote.

 

Wait a minute! You just said you got Ninja'd! According to you, when you were casting your vote, Lev was the high lynch candidate!

Yes, your point being?