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second strike at Shayol Ghul


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Hi, people I am back after a very long time. See, you people never agree with me but here are my two cents anyway. I think in all the discussions there are two things that are constantly being ignored. May be i have missed the posts. First is one of the first viewings of Min that we know of. It went something like and I have just started my reread of the series and I am reading winternight. So, its pretty much from memory. "All of you have to be there. Moiraine asked where? I do not know somewhere all of you have too be there you even that gleeman, that woman sitting outside all of you or he will fail". As I said, I do not remember the exact quote but it was clearly told that the fellowship which left two rivers including Nynaeve and Thom has to be present for him to succeed I have always thought it meant at that second strike at shayol ghul. You see that is why I think that Lan will not die or Moiraine was not dead because for me this list of people have to be there fo Rand to succeed. One more argument before I move to my second point of the post. I have always maintained that none of his love interests will be present. also if you take a look back at the series you will find that all of these people were never together at any of the crucial junctures except maybe at the Eye of the world but no Thom was not there. It means only one thing to me that these people have to be together at shayol ghul.
















And Rand


As I said this will be the only time in the series when all of them will be together or he will fail. Please do not rip me apart just yet. let me state my second point also. Again I might have missed it but no one has come up with significance of Rand being able to wield TP. It just cannot be just to free her from the clutches of Semirhage. Second most important thing to remember is that again do not remember whether LTT said it oe as you people call it Rand Sedai did but I am pretty certain that someone of these two said we had to touch him with Saidin, that was the only way of placing seals on the bore. Now my contention is that this time Rand is going to use True Power to kind of push him back and I have always agreed that Aiel and Ogiers singing together are going to seal the bore. there are other things but I am going to save them for my last post. Which I will most probably make few days before the final book comes out. OK now rip in lol

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Hi Mudd welcome back. No ripping from me mate.


I have to say I've had much the same thoughts though you've pinpointed where one of those came from for me, thanks. It was somewhere in tEotW when they arrive in Baerlon and Min is whispering with Moiraine and then tells Rand? about her vision of the shadow and the sparks flying and being stronger when all together. So from memory all but Min (if she really qualifies is still a question in my mind) are on your list and I can understand Rand leaving them out due to their inability to protect themselves against the power. I include Aviendha on this list because she will sleep with Rand and fall pregnant (like Elayne) when she returns from Rhuidean and her ability will become sporadic and unreliable also.


I've always believed about the song and the Aiel, Ogier and Nym too. I think that the Clan Chiefs and Wise Ones will be found to know the song (through Aviendah visiting Caemlyn and activating the Ter'angreal with books/music. I've already said a few months ago that I think a Nym will be found in the Blight (ref: the BLANK in the Blight). Maybe Elayne and Avienhda will team up and create more Nym with the use of that growing Ter'angreal Aviendha 'read'. Another idea is that it is for propagating Avendesora. It stands to reason that the last of the Jenn (Aiel) who began construction at Rhuidean had one and that this was how Avendoraldera was created.


As for your second theory about the True Power, perhaps the Dark One and the Creator opposingly share it, broadly in comparison with Male/Female sharing the two sides of the True Source (Saidin/Saidar). Like you, I think there is more to tell about the True Power in aMoL.


I'm still trying to work out in my mind what it means by "Belief and Order" as per Herid Fel's observations. However, I liked the theory posted by someone about Herid being manipulated to lead Rand astray. Most likely Lanfear IMO. She was around Cairhien early on. Could have set Fel up or, he could have been set up by Ba'alzammon in that Darkfriend dream in the prologue of tGH.

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Rand's TP access has been a point debated over and over. Perhaps you missed it, I dont know, there are thousands of topics and thousands more topics within topics, so its easy to miss :)


Anyway, you are not alone in thinking the TP will be used as a "buffer" to stop the taint from occurring again. As for myself, I don't believe it to be the case. The TP is the DO's essence. He controls who uses it and when. Plus, it wouldnt really be a "buffer", if it is already a part of the DO, its like using the taint to stop the taint. Your still touching the DO in both circumstances.


I think he will use his own blood/life as the "buffer", in keeping with the "his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul." Rand is the Dragon Reborn, not just a mere channeller, there has to be a reason he alone can compete against the DO. Thus, its his blood itself that will help seal it, not an extension of some other power, or else anyone could take his job.


As for the first point. I think that many people took this as self-evident. We know for a fact that Rand, Perrin and Mat have to be together to win, and I always just assumed it was the same with the "fellowship" as you call it aswell. Each of them has a crucial part to play, and without them, Rand cant win. The question is, whether any of them has fulfilled their part. Looking at the viewing, it seems clear that it means they have to be together at the LB, but it could also mean, although it is unlikely, each of the mentioned people has to be there for Rand at one time or another, as far as I know, the phrase could be twisted and not include an actual set time, but rather an overall "they must be there for him" type of thing.

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